Ludivine

[kukblue1]

Unless things change they won't be the only one closing. People are broke. https://x.com/KobeissiLetter/status/1835069955462902195 I'm one of them I don't eat out nearly as much as I used too.

[Pete]

Unless things change they won't be the only one closing. People are broke. https://x.com/KobeissiLetter/status/1835069955462902195 I'm one of them I don't eat out nearly as much as I used too.

There are far, far more restaurants opening vs. closing.

[W8N2SKI]

Unless things change they won't be the only one closing. People are broke. https://x.com/KobeissiLetter/status/1835069955462902195 I'm one of them I don't eat out nearly as much as I used too.

Yeah, this is wildly inaccurate. I eat out very often, and most people I associate with and work with do the same. It is hard to keep up with all the new restaurants to try. It feels like there is a new one opening every week.

[Pete]

I've said it many times, but the OKC restaurant and bar scene is rapidly maturing.

Tons more competition which means you'd better bring your A-game (or at least B-game) otherwise people have tons and tons of other choices.

Also, lots of leases are expiring (usually 5 years), and some long-term places have owners who want to retire or just can't keep up with the increased competition.


Also, I usually talk to the operators early on and often try a place out not long after they open. It's usually very obvious who is going to succeed and who isn't.

[W8N2SKI]

I feel that in the city, most districts go through a "refresh" cycle. This is when some old businesses close down after being in operation for many years, and new concepts come in to replace them. It just takes time for these new concepts to attract the right crowd. Midtown is currently going through this with Packard's, Brown's, Louies, Bleu Garten, and 1492 closing. It will take some time for these new tenants to get their footing in a district primed for development.

[kukblue1]

There are far, far more restaurants opening vs. closing.

Aren't opening and profitable two different things?

[kukblue1]

https://www.aier.org/article/the-end...January%202024. So are the numbers wrong? Possible things are just better in Oklahoma?

[Pete]

https://www.aier.org/article/the-end...January%202024. So are the numbers wrong? Possible things are just better in Oklahoma?

I'm telling you I keep a comprehensive list of openings and closings in the OKC area and there are far more new restaurants than those that go out of business.

If you haven't noticed, almost as soon as a place closes, another opens in its place. Then, you have loads of new construction on top of that. Pretty simple math.

[Okie1234]

Suprised such a great location with parking spots in midtown can't land stable concept.

[Pete]

There are lots of good chefs/cooks that have no idea how to run a restaurant. You see it over and over again.

[W8N2SKI]

https://www.aier.org/article/the-end...January%202024. So are the numbers wrong? Possible things are just better in Oklahoma?

You can find statistics online to support anything you want. I frequently travel for work, and restaurants in many cities have bustling crowds and long waits. People still eat out often, and it's not just an Oklahoma thing. Many of the new restaurants in OKC stay open well after opening, which indicates that they are profitable.

[TheTravellers]

There are lots of good chefs/cooks that have no idea how to run a restaurant. You see it over and over again.

Alma, apparently.

[kukblue1]

I'm telling you I keep a comprehensive list of openings and closings in the OKC area and there are far more new restaurants than those that go out of business.

If you haven't noticed, almost as soon as a place closes, another opens in its place. Then, you have loads of new construction on top of that. Pretty simple math.

That's great Question is how many are profitable? Like not just a littler more than break even but making a good Profit. There are a bunch of restaurants that run on very little profit or they have one location that makes a profit and another location that does not.

[kukblue1]

Never Mind found it. Only 20% I thought it would be a little higher and I'm sure what part of the country you live in effects it also. https://www.menutiger.com/blog/resta...ate-statistics

[Jeepnokc]

There are lots of good chefs/cooks that have no idea how to run a restaurant. You see it over and over again.

This is a problem with a lot of professions. There are a lot great lawyers at the DA's office and the Public Defenders office that go into private practice only to return in 6 months to a year as they don't know how to run a business. Professional schools as well as culinary schools need to offer more than a token class on business, marketing and finance. My daughter is working on her doctorate in audiology and not a business class to be found.

[Oski]

^^^ Business isn't for everyone, no matter how many classes you take in school. The restaurant industry, in particular, is tough with so many moving parts. I doubt many business school professors would succeed as business owners. That said, it's always a good idea to pick up some knowledge in accounting and finance in business classes.

[Will Dearborn]

Did something weird happen here or did they just realize right away it wasn't going to work out and pulled the plug to save $$$?

I had a drink at the bar a few weeks back (weekday dinnertime) and was the only one there the whole time.

[Urbanized]

I have no intel other than I’ve known the folks at R&J for a long time and a few of them mentioned early on to me that the Alma folks were a bit difficult and entitled, which surely didn’t translate well in those close environs. I got eye rolls when I asked how the new neighbors were.

[OkieBerto]

From what I have seen and heard the Chef and his team were doing their job. The Management team failed miserably. Even after some of the soft openings, local chefs who helped out to make sure the food came out right were either not paid the amount they were owed, or never paid at all. One of those chefs was a prior chef at the last place they had opened, GHST, and he left because of how management treated him. To me, it seems that the management team was taking advantage of our local chefs. When word gets around like that, most locals will refuse to spend their money at a restaurant.

[Timshel]

I have no intel other than I’ve known the folks at R&J for a long time and a few of them mentioned early on to me that the Alma folks were a bit difficult and entitled, which surely didn’t translate well in those close environs. I got eye rolls when I asked how the new neighbors were.

I do have one firsthand account of this being accurate/that very much made my eyes roll. But I also had positive interactions as well so don't want to be a total negative Nancy. But it would not surprise me if it were a case of ostensibly being a good chef =/= being a good business owner.

[prickle]

From what I have seen and heard the Chef and his team were doing their job. The Management team failed miserably. Even after some of the soft openings, local chefs who helped out to make sure the food came out right were either not paid the amount they were owed, or never paid at all. One of those chefs was a prior chef at the last place they had opened, GHST, and he left because of how management treated him. To me, it seems that the management team was taking advantage of our local chefs. When word gets around like that, most locals will refuse to spend their money at a restaurant.

A few chefs in OKC have a problem with stealing money. Not saying this happened here by any account, but I know it happened at Ludivine and R&J's a while back.