Just a heads up.
The New NewsOK.com (http://www.newsok.com)

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Yeah I noticed it earlier today when it asked me to update my Adobe Flash.

That's funny. It wasn't like that two hours ago.

I just noticed that also, did anybody see their new forum?

Unfortunately, I've updated my Adobe Flash 3 times already and it still tells me to download the latest version. I've even shut down and restarted the PC just to make sure.

Anyone else having that problem?

I notice their ads still cover up their articles and drop down boxes. There aren't many other sites that frustrate me more than Newsok.com. Fortunately, they finally got rid of the Barry Tramel advertisement that loaded on every page.

I've said it several times but someone at the Oklahoman understands and appreciates technology.

They were one of the very first newspapers to be on-line, although originally is was for a fee. They've also scanned and archived every paper since inception, going back about 100 years. And they publish an "electronic edition" which allows non-locals like me to view the paper exactly as printed.

The ads can be annoying but considering they provide so much for free it's a fair tradeoff IMO.


And I believe this latest change is because they're in the process of severing the previous ties with Channel 9, who jointly sponsored the previous site.

The format doesn't feel as "rich"...just more white space, dashed lines and small point black type. Hopefully, this isn't the final version.

I notice their ads still cover up their articles and drop down boxes. There aren't many other sites that frustrate me more than Newsok.com. Fortunately, they finally got rid of the Barry Tramel advertisement that loaded on every page.

I agree scotplum, their website frustrates me more than any other website I visit. Although as someone said, the advertisements in exchange for free online news is a fair trade-off. escan said it right, all they did was streamline the look a tad bit and add more white space. The rest is very similar to what it was before. Looks like they are working on it well before the self-imposed date of almost a year they gave themselves just a few weeks ago. I hope they make it more user friendly and appealing.

It's too "techy" and I can never find anything I am looking for. For instance, Jbrown you said they had an article about the bricktown brewery today? can you link me that please. i can't find it.

It's under Business as well as A&E.

found it. thanks.

Ok....I just went to the site on my laptop and it works great.

My laptop is running IE 7 whereas my PC is only running IE 6, so maybe that's the difference?

I've said it several times but someone at the Oklahoman understands and appreciates technology.

They were one of the very first newspapers to be on-line, although originally is was for a fee. They've also scanned and archived every paper since inception, going back about 100 years. And they publish an "electronic edition" which allows non-locals like me to view the paper exactly as printed.

The ads can be annoying but considering they provide so much for free it's a fair tradeoff IMO.


And I believe this latest change is because they're in the process of severing the previous ties with Channel 9, who jointly sponsored the previous site.

I agree, 100% This is one thing The Oklahoman has done right. They've always been on top of things with the technology. I remember it being a pay service back around 1996 - maybe later. It was pretty poor back then, but in retrospect most sites were around that time. That electronic edition is pretty slick - I use the same thing for another paper, I bet that is great for you.

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I give them credit for making the site look very clean and elegant, just like a fine magazine. It doesn't have that "syrupy, candy-colored look" that too many sites use today in an effort to impress the users.

I also give them great credit for having a low-bandwidth option. This tells me that some of their team was thinking usability, not just catering to the elite crowd.

When it comes to low bandwidth, believe me, I know low-bandwidth. :-)

Web programmers I know in OKC have told me that the Oklahoman has recruited some talented developers and are always using the most cutting-edge tools.

If any doubt their web prowess, take a good hard look at the Tulsa World site. Not only is it lousy, until very recently they were *still* charging for access, something most papers stopped doing ten years ago.

I just spent some time looking it over. It's quite impressive. Loaded with features, but in a way that doesn't junk up the site. Very intuitive with their drop-down menus, many ways to personalize the site and the RSS feeds have been updated and they've expanded the RSS offerings with niche topics - that's very nice.

A paper should ultimately be judged on the quality of content - something The Oklahoman woefully lacks - but the online presentation is now better than ever. No doubt about it.

on edit: I mentioned the content. There are many examples concerning serious journalism. But, a perfect example is from this past Sunday's "Books" page. It's just plain horrible anyway, but the main "review" (which is always a summary - they never actually "review," anything) was for - I kid you not - Great America Billboards: 100 Years of History by the Side of the Road, a paperback from Ten Speed Press. One thing I miss about a good big city paper is a book section and not just a page. But, in the case of The Oklahoman, again, it's the content.

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I know it's a much smaller paper, but the Edmond Sun site is AWFUL and NewsOK is leagues and bounds ahead of it.

I know it's a much smaller paper, but the Edmond Sun site is AWFUL and NewsOK is leagues and bounds ahead of it.


You're right about that! The Sun is awful, period. They switched from an afternoon paper to a morning paper and didn't even bother telling anyone about it!

The real test for The Oklahoman will be when they lose the content from Channel 9. So much of NewsOk.com has come from 9's videos and transcripts from their videos, etc. Will they be able to update the site with fresh content throughout the day? It will be interesting to see.

Well, they have started to do their own videos, including video editorials, which seem real strange but it's the way of the future. the way of the future. way of the future. way of the way of the future.

Regarding the content of the Oklahoman, of course it could be better and richer but for a market the size of OKC, they more than hold their own.

And as I mentioned, newspapers everywhere are slashing reporters and writers right and left, because their revenues are being so heavily impacted by the web and the ubiquitous cable/satellite news channels.

Nova (PBS) had a great show about this recently and pointed out that almost all the real reporting is done by newspapers, yet their ranks are rapidly dwindling. So, increasingly you have lots more outlets and hours of programming that needs to be filled and less content. This is why you now have the avalanche of talk and commentary shows, where everyone offers an opinion and almost no one just REPORTS.

I'm hoping bloggers and sites such as this can help supplement the growing dearth of information vs. opinion but there is no real accountabilities in those mediums.

It's a very interesting problem and one that is going to continue to escalate for the foreseeable future.

Well, they have started to do their own videos, including video editorials, which seem real strange but it's the way of the future. the way of the future. way of the future. way of the way of the future.

Have they really? I hadn't noticed that. Maybe somebody is shaking things up. I've even seen some things in the hard-copy paper that have surprised me of late. I've gone on my Stan Tiner rant before. He was the best thing to ever happen to that paper. He changed the entire design from one that belonged in Duncan to a real big city paper look, but knew that the content would have to improve dramatically. Many of the reporters rebelled against his big-city paper thinking and, to be brutally honest, didn't want to do what was required to be a real newspaper. Ultimately, after they all marched one-by-one into the front office talking about what a tyrant he was, Tiner got the boot and OKC is still stuck with a lightweight newspaper. One that looks big-city (thanks to Tiner) but lacks any depth whatsoever. I compare The Oklahoman to papers of our market size and it falls way short in my opinion. But, Malibu is so right about declining circulations, budget cuts, and changes at newspapers everywhere. It's sad in many ways, broadcast journalism gives serious news little attention.

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I'm hoping bloggers and sites such as this can help supplement the growing dearth of information vs. opinion but there is no real accountabilities in those mediums.

You're thinking like I am about all of this as we move into the future. I am glad to see you thinking about the site as a good supplement, etc. I agree. In fact, I told my wife the other night I learn more about what's happening in Oklahoma City from OKCTalk than from the daily newspaper. And I meant it! Thanks for doing what you can to keep this site up and running as an alternative source of information and discussion from the daily paper.

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This is why you now have the avalanche of talk and commentary shows, where everyone offers an opinion and almost no one just REPORTS.

My dad HATES that about CNN and the other cable stations. He just wants the headlines like it used to be.


Here is all the video editorials:

The Oklahoman Ed Kelley - NewsOK.com (http://newsok.com/opinions/edkelley)

I think the only way bloggers and web 'reporters' can establish credibility is to put their own identity and credentials in plain view.

But unfortunately, that also compromises ones abitlity (and desire) to report many things.

For example, as much as we all pretty much agree on the need for a bright light to be focused on OCURA, who wants to stick their neck out and risk their own reputation and business relationships as a possible consequence?

The irony of trying to do investigative reporting in a town like Oklahoma City is that you need to be *of* the organizations to a certain degree in order to have access and influence, but you can quickly be ostercized if you rock the boat.

I'm hoping as the city grows and becomes less controlled by a handfull of people, that it will be easier to question and influence change without being completely blackballed by the powers that be.

I still can't pull up the site on my PC running IE 6.

From what I saw on my laptop, I like the new layout.

I'm still running IE6 at work and it works fine, I love the customization of the site and the rss feeds, but I'm not crazy about ALL the white space. Maybe some muted grey's for a little contrast?

I like NewsOK because it updates so often and if I want to know about any story, whether it be a national tragedy or something dealing with local sports teams, it's on NewsOK. I also like that you get info. about the whole state and not just OKC/Norman.

I'm still running IE6 at work and it works fine, I love the customization of the site and the rss feeds, but I'm not crazy about ALL the white space. Maybe some muted grey's for a little contrast?

Thanks for the info Centerback. I'm not sure what's going on with my PC. Other sites running Adobe Flash come in great.

I think the only way bloggers and web 'reporters' can establish credibility is to put their own identity and credentials in plain view.

But unfortunately, that also compromises ones abitlity (and desire) to report many things.

For example, as much as we all pretty much agree on the need for a bright light to be focused on OCURA, who wants to stick their neck out and risk their own reputation and business relationships as a possible consequence?

The irony of trying to do investigative reporting in a town like Oklahoma City is that you need to be *of* the organizations to a certain degree in order to have access and influence, but you can quickly be ostercized if you rock the boat.

I'm hoping as the city grows and becomes less controlled by a handfull of people, that it will be easier to question and influence change without being completely blackballed by the powers that be.

You said it. Very good points, all. I am guilty of that very thing. It's easy to , "tell it like it is," from behind a forum User-ID. But, I (me, the man with a name) cannot take a stand on issues that are inherently political. That is a real problem, but the coin has two sides. (It also enables us all to be potential "Deep Throats.") But you are so right about ramifications of the real "me" (us) being heard. For some of us, it's legal as well as personal fears of reprisal. In my job I literally cannot be involved in "political activity."

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(It also enables us all to be potential "Deep Throats.

The rub is you still need the credibility of Woodward & Bernstein to verify and break the stories. :) Otherwise it's all just internet chatter.

But increasingly, bloggers are putting themselves out there and are at least a funnel for lots of information which still needs to be treated with some sort of journalistic integrity, such as checking facts and getting multiple sources. That is, if it's to be taken seriously. There are more and more examples of that happening.

It will be very interesting to see where things end up because reporting is certainly forever changed.

I really dislike the new layout. I liked the old menus a lot. It seems like the new site is going to make it harder to find info.

Also, for some reason (the placement of the ads, maybe?) I'm having trouble being able to click in and type in the search box.

Random observations:

I've been going through some of the pages at the Oklahoma's revised website this morning ... probably the reason that I still prefer the former version is that a tree of submenus pop-out when the pointer rests on an item in the main drop-down menu, and that feature seems to be missing. Probably, it's just a matter of me getting used to it. A nice "new" (at least, I've not noticed it before) is the pane at the left side which lists prior stories, also "expandable" by using the pointy triangles. In the main, it seems pretty"clean" and I'm not getting as many of those anoying popup ads as I once did ... in fact, I may not even have gotten any (which would be cool, if true).

It's probably not "done" yet ... I couldn't get the tabs at the bottom of the pages I tried to "do" anything ... e.g., on the main "Sports" page, at the bottom, there are several tabs, beginning with "Headlines", then "Blogs", then "Columns", and others. When I tried clicking on one of them, nothing happened. As I said, probably not ready for prime time, or maybe it's just how I have my computer set up, I don't know.

As an aside, and even though several of us have mentioned this before, it's worth noting again for those who may not know, and it's free:

If you have a Metropolitan Library Card, by logging on to the Metro Library System here ... Logon (http://cybermars.mls.lib.ok.us/marsiis/cybermars.asp) ... and there typing in your MLS card number and the 1st 4 digits of your last name, you can search the Oklahoman's archives in the Database .... Newspaper area all the way back to 1900. The search features are pretty good and it's pretty cool for research.

One sub-note about what I just said: If you are using Norton Internet Security (as I am), you may need to "disable" NIS for a few moments BEFORE you click the Oklahoman's archive link ... otherwise you (or at least I was/am) taken to a different log-on page requiring a password, etc. With NIS disabled during the "access" period, that doesn't happen. Once you've accessed the Oklahoman's archives, you can turn NIS back on - this is a log-on issue, only. Just a tip in case you run into this problem like I did.

I saw the new layout and thought it was too heavy on the white space. Strategic use of contrasting colors helps organize a page/site, and the only true color distinction is in the NewsOK.com banner at the top. I think the general organization is better, but I'll have to use it a bit to really make a more informed decision.

The one thing I do *not* like is the streaming video box on the right side - and this is an increasing trend. Many sites push down that video box and start streaming without even asking, and it starts blaring some audio that I have no clue what its for until I realize it was pushed down by some rude website. ESPN really started this, and I think it sucks rocks.

I will say that as I went to the newsok site this morning, the video feed doesn't arbitrarily start, so that's better...

-soonerdave

Pretty much sucks for the most part. It looks OK but it's much harder to navigate than it was before, when you could easily access individual stories through dropdowns.

I freaking hate it. I'll probably not spend as much time there as I did before; it used to be one of my regular visits.

I absolutely hate it.

I tried to use the new site again today. I decided I hate it too.

KFOR's site is equally worthless, because of how infrequently they update it.

I guess I'm down to KOCO for local news.

After a few days, I don't like it either.

It's not just the changes because I've welcomed other revisions. I just have a hard time finding things and don't care for all the white.

I think they've taken a step backwards here.

Here's a link for those who find it too flashy:

NewsOK.com | Powered by The Oklahoman and NEWS 9 (http://newsok.com/lite)

Let's all write in and tell them we HATE all the white.

newsokprog@newsok.com

Read what others are saying:

NewsOK.com Beta (http://blogs.newsok.com/index.php?blog=76)

Here's a link for those who find it too flashy:

NewsOK.com | Powered by The Oklahoman and NEWS 9 (http://newsok.com/lite)

Let's all write in and tell them we HATE all the white.

newsokprog@newsok.com

Read what others are saying:

NewsOK.com Beta (http://blogs.newsok.com/index.php?blog=76)

Thanks, Karrie.....I like that 'lite' version of the site better than the regular newsok.com. I have to agree with a few others that after using it for several days, it is simply not as easy to use and the white is wearing after a bit. It needs some adjustments.

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how annoying! Is anyone used to this site yet? I keep forgetting how much it irritates me and I keep trying to go back. Even the lite version is too flashy. There are way too many ads popping and flashing around, I can't even read the news because I'm constantly distracted by something popping up or spinning around. It's horrible. I think I like it less now than I did when they first changed it.

They seem to have made a few more changes. I didn't like it at first but now it is much better. It might be better if the headline under each section were directly under the heading and the "sections" were on the right side on the drop down. I use the touch pad on my laptop at home and it is a pain to have to drag down and to the right to get to a story.

Honestly, I like the new format online. I agree with others, that the Oklahoman has always been good with the use of technology.

:bright_id

My only suggestion(s) center around content. I hope Steve and other's who work there yet also come here for info/support take this to heart and not the wrong way. I think the Oklahoman's stories are too short. There seems to be too many assumptions, that readers "already" know what is being reported. Let me give an example.

Say for instance, a play or concert is coming to town today or tomorrow. It will be announced in the online edition, but it would only be a one-liner or paragraph at that. Why not give some background into what the event/story is, who the parties are or what relevance they have towards OKC. I think each story should be a couple of paragraphs in minimum, the first to introduce the second to inform and the third to reiterate and/or provide background/supportive info.

something like this hypothetical news Example:


Sonics announce Relocation to Oklahoma City.

It was announced today by so and so, that the NBA's SuperSonics will relocate to Oklahoma City on such and such date. So and so, owner of the club, has committed to settling X dollars on the lease agreement with certain city of the Northwest USA in exchange for being allowed out of completing the final X years of rent at Y Arena.

So and so announced the SuperSonics, who would change their name to Oklahoma City SuperSonics on X date, would play their home games at Ford Center in downtown Oklahoma City. Local officials were thrilled at the announcement and offered their gratitude to so and so for making this happen. Quote from city official. City official "This is a great day for Oklahoma City and we are happy to finally have an NBA franchise of our own."

This sentimate represents the quest by city officials to acquire a major league team for its Ford Center. The NBA spec facility which will include an $X million update was constructed in 2001 as part of the city's Metropolitan Area Projects (MAPS), a one cent public tax credited to a new renaissance of private investment in downtown and the inner city not to mention the making of Oklahoma City as a destination to visitors, conventions, and now sports teams.

Owner so and so credited MAPS, city officials, corporate support, and the success of the NBA's Hornets as the key reasons why the move to Oklahoma City is being made. Quote from so and so.

Season tickets go on sale Dday via ticketmaster, Ford Center, or local outlets. The first home game at the Ford Center is DATE.

Fill in the blanks, so and so, and quote areas and you have a pretty detailed news story that anyone new to Oklahoma City could read and fully understand what is happening and the magnitude of it. Im sure such a story will be written once the city does in fact acquire an NBA team, be it the SuperSonics, Hornets for good, or whomever else;

but I think this format should be used on all stories. Not necessarily that a concert at OCU should be 5 paragraphs long but it should be longer than just "so and so is having a benefit concert tonight at OCU's Music Performance Hall. The event begins at 7pm." That is not very informative and does not get anyone excited to want to lift a finger and attend the event.

I think the Daily Oklahoman, as Oklahoma City's major metro newspaper - has a duty to inform citizens without prejudice - complete with all facts and background information. I've been unimpressed with the content or lack thereof of many stories and I think that simple improvement (background, more detailed info, relevance to OKC, benefit for ???) additions the stories would make the paper more credible and equal to major papers across the nation.

Anyways, that's my 2 cents.. Steve, others - dont take this personal; just my kind yet somewhat firm constructive criticism on the paper (online edition, Im not privy to the written version since I live up here in Seattle).

By the way - I can't wait until the hypothetical storey I posted above is REALLY published in the Daily Oklahoman!!! That will be a great day for Oklahoma City!!!!! :) :congrats:

HoRod - It is funny you mention the story length. I see AP stories on the OKC website and in the print edition when I lived there that were much shorter than what appeared in other papers. A while back there was a story in the Wall Street Journal that took up half a page. The story was in the Oklahoman but it was only like 6 paragraphs. It hit the highlights but didn't give the in-depth information the WSJ provided.

I know this was an effort to save space but I prefer to get the whole story.

Malibu I sure do hope the city grows and maybe allow for more diversity of minds and business growth through competition and new inventions or ideas. Power in the hand of a few inhibits growth

They can't possibly publish stories that long in their current format/page count. There's a very, very delicate balance between page counts, column-inches of ad space, and word count, and given the precarious general nature of the newspaper business these days, it's not at all surprising to me that stories are shortened.

The entire newspaper industry is trending toward shorter stories, almost as an inherent complement to their web-based outlets. If you look at the WSJ, it's significantly more expensive than the DO.

Many people express frustration about the DO, and compare the DMN (sorry, Dallas Morning News) as a favorable alternative to which the DO should aspire, but I think two different efforts over the last several years by the DMN to sell in the OKC area have failed. In fact, I think the DMN just pulled all their home-delivery service recently. That failure, to me, speaks volumes about why the DO hasn't expanded (and, in fact, has shrunk) its content over recent years...

-soonerdave

Well, if it makes everyone feel better....I dislike channel 4's website also, I have no idea if I like channel 5's or not because I can never get it to pull up. SO, I've gone back to paper form and here to rely on my daily news. :)

Yeah I still strongly dislike this new website just as much as the old one. For the money they're spending it's ridiculous they can't design a more user friendly site. The ads are annoying and should not be included on the "printable page" version.

I just think with more information, people can decide for themselves. And some of those one liners, especially with regard to OKC's entertainment/nightlife options - are just plain ridiculous for a city of 1.3 million residents, not to mention largest city in the state and 2nd largest in the region.

As far as the web site, I know it is constrained but that is what page 2 3 and 4 are for. I know the print version could either run it in a lane or move it to another page, but online it doesn't matter - and the full story with background should be included.

Here in Seattle our papers give us the full story, which is why most Seattleites are thought of as informed and intelligent (well, one reason). I wish the same for OKC, Im tired of those good-ole boys there selling the city short - which only reinforces the negatives.