Yeah, honestly I think Richard Mize gets most of his "leads" from OKCTalk. If you look at when his stories hit, they are usually 1-3 days after OKC Talk posts information. We need to publish our own newspaper and put the Daily Disappointment out of business.

agreed. :congrats:

I get more news from here than I do the paper.

I think we should all take such things as a compliment.

And these reporters are smart to get information here... There are hundreds of us gathering information as opposed to a few people in a newsroom.

Newspaper staffs have been trimmed a great deal over the years and that's too bad because it's just about the only place that real reporting is still conducted.

Yeah, first thing I noticed this morning when opening Safari was that NewsOK had picked up two stories that broke here at the beginning of the week:

The Brewery dropping live music, and this.

AHH... Nothing like reading through all the mindless bickering.. :)

Glad to hear about the outlet though. I miss the Stroud center.

Yeah, first thing I noticed this morning when opening Safari was that NewsOK had picked up two stories that broke here at the beginning of the week:

The Brewery dropping live music, and this.

Some of the quotes from that article really irked me...

Like what? The stuff about Bricktown not being a place for live music anymore?

Like what? The stuff about Bricktown not being a place for live music anymore?

Exactly. <sigh> If we had better local promoters, the local scene might be a little better.

Bricktown is still a great place for live music.

completely agree - this should probably be a new thread, but that's entirely the reason I started doing FREE promotions for local musicians. There are quite a few good bands in this state and people really don't support them until the rest of the nation says they are good. For example, Hinder. They have been around for years and years barely making money off of gigs at the Blue Note until the rest of the nation said they were a good band. Then all of a sudden they sell out 3 nights in a row at the bricktown event center. I personally am not a Hinder fan, but I support them because they are Oklahomans and are doing what they love. The Bricktown Brewery could have very easily packed their house with a little promotion and some effort. They really didn't have to blindly cancel shows either...how about honoring contracts with what's already scheduled and just stop scheduling future shows?? That would have been nice instead of the bands finding out via word of mouth.

Yeah the things they said made it sound like somewhere else had taken over as OKC's live music "destination", but that's not true. Venues keep closing and NOTHING is taking their place.

do you think it will hurt or kill the other shopping centers? quail, penn etc..

You can say that for all new developments. This is just a new development.

OKC is growing. Quail Springs and Penn Square will sink or swim. I predict Penn Square will swim, Quail Springs, could do anything.

To follow up on y_h's post,
I concur that St. Louis Mills has been a big disappointment. Part of the problem is its location. It was built a long way from where the affluent population center of St. Louis is. It had a few cool stores at the beginning, but it also had a lot of junk from the beginning. People didn't want to drive 20-30 minutes to shop at a few good stores, when you have to navigate through acres of ordinary stuff. The two or three times I was there, it felt like I wandered and wandered and wandered to find any store I wanted to patronize.

But also it has a lot of competition in St. Louis. When you have malls here with Nieman Marcus, Saks, Nordstrom and dozens of smaller brand-name stores, who is going to go out of their way for a few good outlets? Also, not to be politically incorrect, but because of its location, it began to attract a miscreant crowd. In fact, they recently had to implement a curfew at that mall, children under 18 aren't allowed in there by themselves at night. There have been several fights there.

This mall in OKC sounds very exciting. And because it wouldn't have as much competition and the traffic isn't as bad, it should do better than the one in St. Louis. Although I-40 and Council is kind of in the sticks, being right on the highway should help it out a lot. Still, my fear is that this is one of how many attempts currently underway to up the retail ante in OKC? If good power centers are built on I-35 in Edmond, north of Quail Springs, University Park in Norman, this one on Council...are we diluting the audience a bit? Can all of these places make it? Would we be better off choosing two - say Quail Springs and Norman and concentrating the high quality retail there, so there is a little density of purpose? I'm not a retail expert, just random thoughts... Of course all of this could be concentrated downtown, but that's not exactly the business model for these types of places.


STL you have a point, BUT I actually think this outlet mall will HELP downtown - as it will get the upscale names in the metro (and state) AND if there ist support - Im sure the retail versions will set up shop. And downtown OKC is the hottest market for just about anything now but ESPECIALLY retail. All it will take is one major retailier to announce a location downtown and the rest ist history. The outlet mall could be like a test market for them for OKC's viability - Im sure it will pass with flying colours.

Actually, we were in OKC for the festival and my fiance asked me if OKC had an outlet mall. I told her we used to (on far NW Exprwy) but it isn't there anymore. I dont know why that failed other than lack of access, I suppose - as it was in the middle of no-where back when it was constructed. There is a freeway out there now, the outler loop toll road, so maybe it might come back also - I think OKC could support 2 or 3 outlet malls.

I hope these are not the enclosed "malls" but are the outside cafe style shoppes, like was said - malls are dinosaurs, they are needed - true, but outdoor shoppes are in fashion now!

But I am so glad to hear about this. Perfect location also, still in OKC limits (tax collections) yet far away enough not to interfere too much with the existing retail centers. Beautiful, hopefully a hotel or two and other attractions will make I-40/Council/Outer Loop area another destination for the OKC metro.

I also liked the statistics published by horizon for Oklahoma City. I wish other businesses would do like horizon and not downstate OKC all of the time. With the success of major leagues here (and IM POSITIVE THAT HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH THIS BY THE WAY), OKC is on the rise and is clearly becoming legitimate Tier II status.!!!

Tour busses from downtown OKC and Meridian district to the Oklahoma Premium Outlets!!!

I wonder if the stores on the list are set in stone. The concept of the outlet mall is exciting, but none of the stores are that unique/thrilling.

To follow up on y_h's post,
I concur that St. Louis Mills has been a big disappointment. Part of the problem is its location. It was built a long way from where the affluent population center of St. Louis is. It had a few cool stores at the beginning, but it also had a lot of junk from the beginning. People didn't want to drive 20-30 minutes to shop at a few good stores, when you have to navigate through acres of ordinary stuff. The two or three times I was there, it felt like I wandered and wandered and wandered to find any store I wanted to patronize.

But also it has a lot of competition in St. Louis. When you have malls here with Nieman Marcus, Saks, Nordstrom and dozens of smaller brand-name stores, who is going to go out of their way for a few good outlets? Also, not to be politically incorrect, but because of its location, it began to attract a miscreant crowd. In fact, they recently had to implement a curfew at that mall, children under 18 aren't allowed in there by themselves at night. There have been several fights there.

This mall in OKC sounds very exciting. And because it wouldn't have as much competition and the traffic isn't as bad, it should do better than the one in St. Louis. Although I-40 and Council is kind of in the sticks, being right on the highway should help it out a lot. Still, my fear is that this is one of how many attempts currently underway to up the retail ante in OKC? If good power centers are built on I-35 in Edmond, north of Quail Springs, University Park in Norman, this one on Council...are we diluting the audience a bit? Can all of these places make it? Would we be better off choosing two - say Quail Springs and Norman and concentrating the high quality retail there, so there is a little density of purpose? I'm not a retail expert, just random thoughts... Of course all of this could be concentrated downtown, but that's not exactly the business model for these types of places.

The suggestion that we should limit ourselves to two lifestyle centers including downtown development is offensive at best.

I agree Spartan. We should go big time with our retail options, and should not settle for second best anymore. We have played second fiddle to DFW for the past 30 years and it used to be unthinkable of OKC getting anything other than your typical walmart.

Although outlet stores are not the retail anchors, its a start and a step in the right direction. Like I said, once the retailiers see the outlets being successful here - there will be much more interest in downtown and Im sure the droves will follow the first major upscale retailier into downtown.

And I agree, OKC can support way more than 2 lifestyle centers. Maybe STL was saying we should start with 2 (along with downtown) - I could see that. But certainly OKC could support more in the future!!

Actually, we were in OKC for the festival and my fiance asked me if OKC had an outlet mall. I told her we used to (on far NW Exprwy) but it isn't there anymore. I dont know why that failed other than lack of access, I suppose - as it was in the middle of no-where back when it was constructed. There is a freeway out there now, the outler loop toll road, so maybe it might come back also - I think OKC could support 2 or 3 outlet malls.


That mall still exists, but it was converted to an outdoor center and they aren't really outlets anymore. And it never was on the level of this proposal. It had like Ross and TJ Maxx and Linens and Things.

I don't think I made myself clear in my earlier post, and I'm sorry. I agree completely that OKC needs more shopping options, and can support them.

What I meant is that I hope these new power centers bring something NEW to the market, a higher level of retail then exists in OKC right now. I don't mean to be a downer, but my gut tells me that the reason Quail Springs and the existing centers with Borders, Best Buy, Home Depot, etc. are always so crowded is that they cater to everybody with $20 in their wallet, basically the entire spectrum of the city. The types of retail operations that I hope are attracted by the new centers would cater to a far smaller market. St. Louis, MO has 2.6 million people and only has one or two of what I would call "higher class" power centers, Whole Foods, Trader Joes, REI, Crate & Barrel, etc. It's unreasonable to think OKC can support more than one or two of them. So if all these new centers get built, and I hope they do, there will probably be some new to the market retail, but there will also be a lot of new branches of what is already in OKC, or new stores like Belk or something that might be new but aren't really "advancing the market." All of this is fine. I'm all for more options. My only concern from my post is that if all these places are going to be trying for the same handful of higher-end tenants, they aren't all going to get them. And if they somehow spread out the higher end stuff, they are going to dilute the market. But please don't misunderstand me, OKC is ready and able to support a higher level of retailing than exists now.

As for downtown, it's a completely different type of market. The powers that be need to focus on independent retail. In St. Louis, the most successful ones have been funky home furnishing stores that cater to all the new loft dwellers.

I totally agree about the local stores in Downtown and Bricktown. Why would someone want to come here to go to the same stores they can go to in their own home towns? We need to have more of an identity that is different. I think it is just people are afraid to take a chance. It is a big risk. Personally I like to shop in Taos and Eureka Springs (and anyone who knows me knows I do not shop) because the stores are mainly local and mostly artisans. These are the kinds of retail I would like to see downtown

Is this still a go?

Yes, as the article stated, I believe construction isn't supposed to start until late 2007 or early 2008. I think targeted first move-ins/openings are late 2008.

boy, I sure wish they'd EXPEDITE this one!!!!

We all better hope this one is of better quality that other ones I've visited. They recently sold their Horizon Center in Monroe MI...and that was about 5 years or so of neglect. The buildings weren't painted in many years, the parking lot and drive ways were cracked and filled with weeds, no landscaping at all, etc. That center use to be always packed and looked really sharp before Horizon purchased it many moons ago, but once they did it went down hill.

Great news...let's just hope they have changed their ways or we are set for one big disappointment.

The center in Michigan...
Google Maps (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=Monroe+MI&ie=UTF8&ll=41.883157,-83.39196&spn=0.009553,0.026844&t=k&z=16&om=1)

Any updates on this? I'm not over that way often - any movement on the land?

I am in this area almost every day and have seen nothing as yet going on with this property. I passed on the north side just last night.

so how is this project going, i have heard nothing about this in a long time, is it still green lighted or what?

It is still green lighted I believe. It is just taking a little longer (as usual) to move along.

perhaps the thread's author can provide an update....kielaaron??

I would like to know as well, but I drive by there everyday and dont see any activity. As the days, weeks, months go by I doubt this will happen.....

There is a link to the developers website on the first page of this thread. All of their developments seem to be slow paced as far execution is concerned, but the developments all seem to be getting done eventually.

I just went to their website, unfortunately all they have is phone numbers and I'm at work. Under leasing they did have the email of their leasing agent for interested retailers, so I emailed him. Hopefully I'll get an answer soon, I encourage more of you to call the management and express your interest in this project and to get more information on if/when we might see something.

perhaps the thread's author can provide an update....kielaaron??


I'm on the road right now, but when I get home tonight ill pull up my database and see if I can find any new data re center open dates, etc.

So I emailed the leasing manger as I did back on the 27th as you can see above. Here is what the VP of the company wrote me back:

(my name), we are hoping to break ground this summer. Andrew

Andrew Pelmoter
Executive Vice President
HORIZON GROUP PROPERTIES

what a joke, so mainly they dont know they are just hoping.

All dates I see confirmed on-hand indicate early Fall 2009 openings at this center...

Development Director states:

Horizon Group is building a 340,000 sf outlet center and hopes to begin site work this spring and opening Summer 2009

Where's the entertainment shops? I'm not that familiar with that area, as I live in MWC, but is there a best buy or something like that around there? I hate how all the malls are losing their entertainment shops that sell dvd's and cd's. I really like the list of hopeful tenants, but would like to see urban outfitters come.

This isnt your typical mall though, outlet malls have a much different tenant mix than a Penn Square for example. They sometimes also must be located far enough from other stores/malls to prevent cannibalizing other stores. And there is a best buy and other entertainment shops less than a mile to the east.

I guess I missed the entire middle of this conversation somehow! I thought the outlet was still going to be on the corner of reno and council. I've been looking for movement and wasn't seeing any. They are doing some stuff on I-40 and Council...not sure if it has to do with this or not. The website says it is geared to open fall of 2008. It also says we get 6 million tourists a year...is that right?

kmf, the dirtwork you are referring to is some new semi/truck place. From the construction sign, it appears to be a semi dealership. dirtwork on the outlet mall hasn't begun yet. Also, I'm pretty confident we get more than 6 million visitors a year. Bricktown has been claiming 7 million visitors annually for several years now.

kmf, the dirtwork you are referring to is some new semi/truck place. From the construction sign, it appears to be a semi dealership. dirtwork on the outlet mall hasn't begun yet. Also, I'm pretty confident we get more than 6 million visitors a year. Bricktown has been claiming 7 million visitors annually for several years now.

Are you talking about the guys that have been milling around in the empty field behind where the shell gas station is? That's the area I am talking about. Great. More semis. whoo.

Yes.

Development Director states:

Horizon Group is building a 340,000 sf outlet center and hopes to begin site work this spring and opening Summer 2009

not very big is it?

It's okay size. The one in San Marcos, TX is 750,000 sq. ft. right now. So it's about half that size. Outlet Malls are generally done in phases, too. So if the first phase is successful, more phases are sure to follow.

It's okay size. The one in San Marcos, TX is 750,000 sq. ft. right now. So it's about half that size. Outlet Malls are generally done in phases, too. So if the first phase is successful, more phases are sure to follow.

got ya. didnt know they were done in phases.

I'm pretty sure the one planned for here is planned in 3 phases.

I would love to see a Armani Exchange store open downtown. I think that the Outlet Store might show that OKC can handle high fashion. Contrary to what people see when they walk down the street, or in the mall, or in Wal-Mart or any other establishment in this fashion forsaken town, there are people who would buy Chanel, Findi, Prada, Gucci, Dolce and Gabbana!

Armani Exchange sucks, no offense...:-)

Best news i have had in years. They need a Big Dog Store,a Nike or New Balance outlet store, an Orange Julius would be nice, and some good food places. I'm ready to go.lol

Big Dog Store?? Seriously? Who wears that stuff. Honestly, I have never seen anyone wear their clothing, anywhere I've been. We need to have higher standards for an outlet mall and bring in quality retail that we don't currently have. We have Orange Julius's in Quail Springs and Crossroads mall already. I'd personally rather see a NikeTown built downtown instead of a Nike Outlet, although I wouldn't complain.

Well the horizon group that is buil;ding this outlet mall shows on there web site that it should be complete by fall of this year, anyone drove by the area where it is suppose to go to see the progress on it? Or if there is anything at all?

I live in Mustang and drive on I-40 daily to get to work and have seen nothing. It just sounds like ANOTHER big pipe dream to me.

I do believe the state is suppose to redo the council/I-40 overpass. I thought it was to begin in December '07. I have seen orange cones on the overpass recently. I don't know if they're waiting on this to begin.

Well if you all would go back and re-read posts #92 and #95 on the previous page, you will see that myself and others contacted this group. Construction is expected to start THIS SUMMER and Phase I opening by Fall 2009.

Sorry Metro, i just saw the flyer that said opening in Fall 2008. What does everybody think of that area? An huge building up for sale to the north, a landfill to the south, bars(bar?), semi dealers and mechanic shops to the west? It just doesn't seem too tourisy to me?

Outlet Malls are often not in tourist destinations but on outskirts of the city or in small towns near a major metro area. Keep in mind Westgate Center I-40 between Rockwell all the way to MacArthur (1 square mile) is becoming a retail mecca for the west metro.

It's the kind of thing that will be a catalyst to improving the area around it. It's not bad really, it's just a commercial zone and certainly not a tourist area, but it's really close to the Meridian corridor on right on a major cross-country artery.

I certainly hope so. Currently my office is a mile north of this location. Our lease is up in June and we are trying to find new office space (really difficult currently since we are working 16 hour days). If this area gets better, maybe we'll stay.

You can always move your office downtown! It's the place to be, unless your business caters to all the semi's out that way where your at now.

We have been looking in the midtown area but are afraid that a substantial part of our elderly clientel will be just too afraid to come downtown. We definitely need someplace that our clients park right outside of the door and walk right in. The advantage of our type of business is that we rarely have more than 3 clients at one time. We do have 5 employees currently and are willing to have them park farther away. We have seen some very interesting properties over the last few months in the midtown area.

Here's a Daily Oklahoman update on the westside outlet mall.


By Steve Lackmeyer
Business Writer
A $7.8 million incentive package is being considered by Oklahoma City officials as part of a proposal by a Michigan developer to build a $50 million factory outlet mall at Council Road and Interstate 40.

The proposal, to be heard at Tuesday’s meeting of the Oklahoma City Council, consists of $2,395,000 in infrastructure improvements and up to $550,000 a year, for 10 years, of sales tax rebates in reimbursement of marketing expenses.

If the agreement is approved, Horizon Group Properties reports it is ready to begin construction this summer with an opening by November 2009.

Outlet mall proposed for city | NewsOK.com (http://newsok.com/outlet-mall-proposed-for-city/article/3238241/?tm=1209765191)