Documentary covering a hardcore Evangelical camp for kids mostly 5 to 10 years old it seemed....Not going to go into a rant over it, but it was both very interesting and very scary

Just interested in whether or not anyone else has seen it...On the new releases on Netflix

I saw the documentary when it was out in theaters (I believe the AMC at Quail Springs Mall showed it), and I thought it was very interesting, but I would NEVER say it was "very scary" or anything like that.

I know that since the production of this film, the actual camp has shut down, but I think what the lady who ran it did was a GOOD THING for kids. I'm a born-again Christian, and I support Christian camps like the one featured in this film.

That's cool jb...Just makes me uncomfortable watching adult's programming information into a child's brain before they can decide for themselves

One question for you...Would you feel the same if instead of religion this was a White Cause type of camp and the speakers were instilling their firm beliefs about race superiority into 7 and 8 yr old kids?...Not trying to debate just wonder if you would find that documentary scary or uncomfortable

That's cool jb...Just makes me uncomfortable watching adult's programming information into a child's brain before they can decide for themselves

One question for you...Would you feel the same if instead of religion this was a White Cause type of camp and the speakers were instilling their firm beliefs about race superiority into 7 and 8 yr old kids?...Not trying to debate just wonder if you would find that documentary scary or uncomfortable

That's how I was watching it....What if it were a Muslim camp? How about a camp for rabid Atheists? How would a born again Christian react to it then? People always look spitfire bat**** insane when they're deeply involved in something you don't believe in.


That movie gave me the jeebie heebies and a nervous tic for a week.

I didn't see it, and I'm a Christian, but it did look a bit scary the WAY they were teaching these kids.

I did see it, and I am a Christian, and it was indeed troubling.

I watched it and it reinforced my opinion of everything thats wrong with organized religion. Its cool to believe in things that help you become stronger on the inside but not crazy or programming children. Let charlie manson have a camp then compare it to the movie and it would be about the same minus some killing.

I watched it and so no signs of brainwashing. What I saw is kids who are on fire for Christ with a faith and devotion that would put most of us adults to shame. I thought it was truly inspiring.

I think you forgot to add the sarcastic smiley taco...At least I hope you did

Clearcut brainwashing...We call it so in the Middle East so we must apply it here as well...The kids in the documentary are going to be some scary adults

Easy180: I would not describe the events in the Jesus Camp movie as programming info into a child's brain or "brainwashing" if you will. These kids voluntarily came to the camp because of their own interests. The camp might have been promoted or marketed in their respective churches, but advertising is not the same as brainwashing.

To answer your question, I don't think you can compare this camp to something like the KKK. On the other hand, I DO believe you can compare it to what you see in a lot of Islamic-based children's TV shows that feature the same kind of "indoctrination," if you will, into children of the Muslim religion. That's kind of the whole point of the "Jesus Camp" move, to juxtapose these two "religions," or "lifestyles," and show how we as Christians need to instill beliefs into our children so they can go to battle for Jesus in a spiritual way (not in a physical way as the Muslim religion suggests with jihad). To me, "Jesus Camp" is the same thing as the "Battle Cry" rallies that Teen Mania and Ron Luce hold across the country, except the "Battle Cry" events are geared towards teenagers, and "Jesus Camp" was geared towards elementary-age children.

The old cause they do it we should do it argument

Guess it's time for the more radical Evangelicals to come up with their own version of the word Jihad

These kids voluntarily go to these brainwashing camps?...Not sure but I'm thinking the parents may have sent them

Cause it looked just like tons of fun for the kids....Anyways

The old cause they do it we should do it argument

Guess it's time for the more radical Evangelicals to come up with their own version of the word Jihad

These kids voluntarily go to these brainwashing camps?...Not sure but I'm thinking the parents may have sent them

Cause it looked just like tons of fun for the kids....Anyways

QFT

There is a MASSIVE, GIGANTIC difference between indoctrinating Christian values and indoctrinating violence against those that don't believe like you.

There is a MASSIVE, GIGANTIC difference between indoctrinating Christian values and indoctrinating violence against those that don't believe like you.

I wish it were that simple.. that the love of Christ would be the focus.. but sometimes, it's not. Some people take it too far.. and when you start teaching that people who 'don't believe like you' are Wrong & Evil Sinners .. then you have problems.

"Three young men accused of brutalizing an 18-year-old gay man for hours last weekend have been charged with hate crimes, according to police, court documents and a prosecutor.

Prosecutor Donna Dagnall, who handles cases in Children's Court, said the 18-year-old man suffered bleeding on the brain and a concussion as well as facial lacerations and bruising, but has since been released from a hospital. Dagnall confirmed the three men allegedly responsible for the beating have been charged under New Mexico's hate-crimes law. "

"The fatal beating of a 72-year-old gay man last month in Detroit has sparked a campaign to update federal and state hate-crime laws to include sexual orientation and gender identity.

Andrew Anthos was riding a city bus home from the library on February 13, listening to his headphones and quietly singing along, when another man asked if he was gay and called him a ''***got,'' according to police and family members.

Anthos ignored him, but the man followed him off the bus and again confronted him. Anthos, who was helping a wheelchair-bound friend stuck in a snowbank, reportedly told the man he was gay. The man then struck him in the back of the head with a pipe, stood over him as he lay on the ground, and ran off after Anthos's friend yelled for him to stop.

Anthos fell into a coma on February 21 and died two days later.

Anthos ''was a patriot. He loved veterans.... He just happened to be gay,'' said Michigan state senator Hansen Clarke, who plans to introduce legislation to amend Michigan's Ethnic Intimidation Act. ''The whole point is making sure that people have equal rights in the legal system, people aren't picked on or threatened just because they look or act differently.''

"It's pretty clear to us that his homosexuality was the reason for the beating," she said. "

Even though it can start out very innocently, some can't stop there. There is quite a bit of violence out there towards those who don't believe the same things.

There's nothing in that article that says it was religiously motivated.

These anti-gay hate crimes tend to be much more about testosterone-driven homophobia.

Yeah, I can agree with that.... I just know that some people go overboard with everything... and when you start teaching young kids early on that everything in the Bible should be taken literally ( like in this movie) then you have kids growing up with this sort of propensity for non acceptance of those who have different beliefs.

Where did most people first learn that homosexuality was 'wrong'? Most people I know base their belief that it is wrong on the Bible and religious teachings.

I'm not saying that Christians are gay hating people who commit crimes against them.. I'm just trying to say that violence can and does occur in all aspects of life.

There is a MASSIVE, GIGANTIC difference between indoctrinating Christian values and indoctrinating violence against those that don't believe like you.

I would agree with this statement if it weren't for the Christian value that banishes everyone to eternal damnation complete with torture and fire if they don't believe like you do

Extremists in both religions scare me equally

Karried,

I don't see an issue with teaching your kids early on that everything in the Bible should be taken literally. After all, if we're Christian, then the Bible is what we believe. For instance, yes, homosexuality IS wrong, because the Bible says it is wrong. That does not mean we should be violent as Christians towards those who are homosexual (or gay, lesbian, transgender, etc.) We need to love these people and be tender towards them. But their behavior is still SIN, and its wrong and against God's Word.

If anyone here is interested, my pastor, Rickey Musgrove is beginning a new series on "Raising Children of Destiny." I strongly recommend it, especially if you have any questions about how to raise your kids in a Christ-like manner. If you're interested, you can come to Faith Church in Edmond, any Sunday, at 1700 S. Bryant (just south of the CVS at 15th and Bryant), and our services start at 10am.

Take everything literally? Really? So eating lobster is as equal an abomination as homosexuality, as is divorce and re-marriage? Stoning to death cheaters, casting out demons, jumping in the nearest lake if you accidentally brush up against a woman on her period, and so on... no explanation needed, just take it as an absolute?

What's that old saying, a text without context is a pretext....

I would agree with this statement if it weren't for the Christian value that banishes everyone to eternal damnation complete with torture and fire if they don't believe like you do

Why worry about that if you don't believe it to be true? There are no Christians attacking Muslim nations because they are sinners.

Do you see worry in my post jbrown?

You were throwing around the standard Christian values argument and I stated my favorite part of it

Dismayed: The Bible is clear in a literal sense that the ceremonial/kosher dietary laws of the OT don't apply to Christians. I do not want to switch to that topic, but if you read the Bible literally, Christ abolished the Law of Moses, and gave Christians the Law of Christ.

Do you see worry in my post jbrown?

You were throwing around the standard Christian values argument and I stated my favorite part of it

That belief does nothing to lead Christians to do violence against others.

Karried,

I don't see an issue with teaching your kids early on that everything in the Bible should be taken literally. After all, if we're Christian, then the Bible is what we believe. For instance, yes, homosexuality IS wrong, because the Bible says it is wrong. That does not mean we should be violent as Christians towards those who are homosexual (or gay, lesbian, transgender, etc.) We need to love these people and be tender towards them. But their behavior is still SIN, and its wrong and against God's Word.

If anyone here is interested, my pastor, Rickey Musgrove is beginning a new series on "Raising Children of Destiny." I strongly recommend it, especially if you have any questions about how to raise your kids in a Christ-like manner. If you're interested, you can come to Faith Church in Edmond, any Sunday, at 1700 S. Bryant (just south of the CVS at 15th and Bryant), and our services start at 10am.

I'm not that well versed regarding the part/parts of the christian bible where it uses the term "homosexual" Can anyone enlighten me?

Take everything literally? Really? So eating lobster is as equal an abomination as homosexuality, as is divorce and re-marriage? Stoning to death cheaters, casting out demons, jumping in the nearest lake if you accidentally brush up against a woman on her period, and so on... no explanation needed, just take it as an absolute?

What's that old saying, a text without context is a pretext....Amen, amen and amen!:bow:

That belief does nothing to lead Christians to do violence against others.

Didn't say it did, but it sure is a lovely part of such a compassionate and understanding religion

The compassion comes in the fact that God provided a way to escape hell.

Grandmama:

Please read Leviticus 18:22 for starters (men lying with men is basically homosexuality).

Please also read 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 and 1 Timothy 1:8-11.

Those are the three basic passages that address homosexuality as a sin.

The compassion comes in the fact that God provided a way to escape hell.

Pretty easy really...Just denounce what religion your parents taught you and crossover to Christianity...Easy sleazy for those born into Muslim, Buddhist and other religious societies

Just sucks they didn't luck out and be born into a mostly Christian society...Sorry bout your luck...Please take the packed rail car heading downward Mustaffa, Chen and Patel

I never said it was easy.

Or even remotely fair to the billions w/o access to a Lifechurch on every corner

Compassionate indeed

Dismayed: The Bible is clear in a literal sense that the ceremonial/kosher dietary laws of the OT don't apply to Christians. I do not want to switch to that topic, but if you read the Bible literally, Christ abolished the Law of Moses, and gave Christians the Law of Christ.

Actually I think what you are referring to is the deuteronomic laws of the Torah. You know, the passages in the New Testament you speak of have been interpreted many different ways, some Christians do not agree with what you just said in entirely, some not at all. This is because if you read something literally, from a modern sense, it can have a very different meaning than what it did in its original language thousands of years ago. This is why I believe you can't be a "literalist" in this sense; whose literature are you using as a common frame of reference? Modern American values or 1st Century Greco-Jewish values....

Dismayed:

Just because some Christians disagree with what I said, in part or in whole, does not make them right. I base my beliefs on what the Bible says, not on what I or someone else thinks it means.

In terms of how I interpret the Bible, I ask the Holy Spirit what it means, and a lot of my interpretation is called the "historical-grammatical" method that some scholars have developed. I don't intentionally use that approach, but the Holy Spirit does illuminate and enlighten me through something very similar.

And lastly, I try to understand the Scriptures through first century Christian values, not values of modern American society, nor values of 1st Century Greco-Jewish people. Both of those sets of values are worldly and opposed to the values of the Kingdom of God.

So then you're not taking the words literally. You said you interpret what is meant via a variety of ways. You are "asking the Holy Spirit what it means."

Let me bring up another point. We've all heard it, someone wants revenge against someone and they proclaim "an eye for an eye," having read the scriptures literally, using this as a justification to really nail someone to the wall. I wonder how many people realize that 1st Century Jews were notorious for calling for death for any number of crimes, some quite tame by today's standards (e.g. unwed mothers). Many interpret the passage to mean 'let the punishment fit the crime,' or don't kill someone for crimes other than murder. To me this would seem to be the point of clarifying the deuteronomic law at the sermon on the mound. In any case I think it involves some investigation and forethought, and even with two people doing exactly that we might come to different conclusions.

I'm sorry if I'm harping on you, I'm just trying to point a few things out about literalism.

Dismayed:

Let me clarify something. When I read the Bible, I ask the Holy Spirit to illuminate and enlighten me, in a sense, to interpret the text to me, and the Holy Spirit does so in a literal way. So, I do take the words literally, as the Holy Spirit so directs. There is ONE way in which I interpret the Bible, and I'd say its Spirit-led, "literal" interpretation. Understand?

Actually, wishing revenge on someone else is not at all biblical. If you read the Bible literally in its proper historical context, "an eye for an eye" deals with how the civil government punishes people for crimes. Thus, it is a metaphor that on a basic level endorses the death penalty. However, as a Spirit-led literalist, I cannot just take a Scripture like "an eye for an eye," and make a conclusion solely on that verse. I have to look at the Bible in other verses that address the same subject. For instance, I would also have to look at Romans 13, which deals with responsibilities for the civil government, and how they DO have the power of the sword, to put to death those who do evil, i.e. that is part of the function of civil government. I have to take that verse literally as well, and let the Holy Spirit teach me how to put the verses together, in order to get the right, literal, historically correct, interpretation.

Make sense? Other thoughts or questions - ???

Sorry to say this, but isn't Bush also "Spirit led"??...Him saying he asks God about his major decisions scares me as much as this film...Thinking God would have went a different direction on the whole Iraq war thing

My best guess is Spirit led is actually just your brain and conscience at work jb

Just because G-Dub says he's Spirit-led doesn't mean he is.

[QUOTE=jbrown84;100096]Why worry about that if you don't believe it to be true? There are no Christians attacking Muslim nations because they are sinners.[/QUOTE

Why are muslims sinners?

Why worry about that if you don't believe it to be true? There are no Christians attacking Muslim nations because they are sinners.


Grandmama:

Please read Leviticus 18:22 for starters (men lying with men is basically homosexuality).

Please also read 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 and 1 Timothy 1:8-11.

Those are the three basic passages that address homosexuality as a sin.

Yeah and divine conception right? NO

Mary ruined for all the other hoes in the world who cheated on their husband.

Like um yeah I got pregnant but dont know how it happened would ever hold up again.

If the bible and god were true gays, muslims, lawyers, porn stars and everyone could just live and not have to worry about all the psycho bible bull**** that is force fed from birth.

I believe in law and order but all these different churches with different beliefs all saying they love god but all the other churches that dont believe in what they do is wrong imo simply cancels out all the jesus loving they do.

omg this is like politics..... we are all just wasting our time talking about it.

Easy180: I believe that Bush is also Spirit-led, which means he is a man of prayer, he prays, and the Holy Spirit gives him direction. This is NOT your mind and conscious working together, as you suggest, but a whole other process that is supernatural, and bypasses the brain.

Not to get off on a tangent, but I don't think God would lead Bush to NOT engage with the war in Iraq. IOW, I really DO believe that Bush was properly led by the Holy Spirit in regards to the Iraq War. But please, if you disagree, Easy 180, lets not hijack this thread and discuss that.

jbrown: I agree. Just because you say something about yourself does not mean its true. However, as regards to GW, I really DO believe he is a man of prayer and is led by the Spirit of God in his decisions. I'd much rather give him the benefit of the doubt then be suspicious of his claims.

BMG: Muslims are sinners, just like anyone else who does not accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

As for Mary, she DID KNOW how Jesus was conceived. The Holy Spirit came upon her, and impreganated her. Is that miracle? YES. Was that supernatural? YES. Do I believe that miracles and the supernatural is for today, that God wants to heal people, and deliver people? YES. Quite frankly, God wants to save you, heal you, and deliver you, BMG, from whatever oppresses you. Are you interested - ?

Why are muslims sinners?

I was referring to the fact that radical Muslims came over here and murdered 3000 people because they thought we were immoral.

But we are all sinners, not just Muslims.

Grandmama:

Please read Leviticus 18:22 for starters (men lying with men is basically homosexuality).

Please also read 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 and 1 Timothy 1:8-11.

Those are the three basic passages that address homosexuality as a sin.

I don't believe that specifically answered my question...I asked, "Where is the term Homosexuality used in the bible?

Grandmama: Is the term "homosexual" not good enough for you? Its in 1 Cor. 6:9-10 and 1 Tim. 1:8-11.

Easy180: I believe that Bush is also Spirit-led, which means he is a man of prayer, he prays, and the Holy Spirit gives him direction. This is NOT your mind and conscious working together, as you suggest, but a whole other process that is supernatural, and bypasses the brain.


Finally something we can agree on. I agree that Bush's decisions have clearly been made by bypassing his brain.

Grandmama: Is the term "homosexual" not good enough for you? Its in 1 Cor. 6:9-10 and 1 Tim. 1:8-11.Not trying to be disrespectful, but to which version of which bible are you referencing?

Grandmama: Is the term "homosexual" not good enough for you? Its in 1 Cor. 6:9-10 and 1 Tim. 1:8-11.So, you found ONE version, one mind you, that mentions the world homosexual..NIV....sorry, try again.

So, you found ONE version, one mind you, that mentions the world homosexual..NIV....sorry, try again.

Apparently I'm missing why it is so important that the word "homosexual" is in the Bible.

Apparently I'm missing why it is so important that the word "homosexual" is in the Bible.
Because that was my question. the subject was referring to what the bible says re: homosexuals and I wasn't aware of the fact that the word was ever used in that era or in the bible...I guess if one looks long and hard enough, one can find a reference to prove just about anything, right?NIV is a stretch though

Easy180: I believe that Bush is also Spirit-led, which means he is a man of prayer, he prays, and the Holy Spirit gives him direction. This is NOT your mind and conscious working together, as you suggest, but a whole other process that is supernatural, and bypasses the brain.

Not to get off on a tangent, but I don't think God would lead Bush to NOT engage with the war in Iraq. IOW, I really DO believe that Bush was properly led by the Holy Spirit in regards to the Iraq War. But please, if you disagree, Easy 180, lets not hijack this thread and discuss that.

jbrown: I agree. Just because you say something about yourself does not mean its true. However, as regards to GW, I really DO believe he is a man of prayer and is led by the Spirit of God in his decisions. I'd much rather give him the benefit of the doubt then be suspicious of his claims.

BMG: Muslims are sinners, just like anyone else who does not accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

As for Mary, she DID KNOW how Jesus was conceived. The Holy Spirit came upon her, and impreganated her. Is that miracle? YES. Was that supernatural? YES. Do I believe that miracles and the supernatural is for today, that God wants to heal people, and deliver people? YES. Quite frankly, God wants to save you, heal you, and deliver you, BMG, from whatever oppresses you. Are you interested - ?It is my understanding, according to whichever bible you reference, that it doesn't matter who or what you accept as your Lord and Master, you are still a sinner, right? That was directed to BMG.

I was referring to the fact that radical Muslims came over here and murdered 3000 people because they thought we were immoral.

But we are all sinners, not just Muslims.I'm curious as to how many people "radical christians have killed in their "quest to convert"?

Nobody in at least 400 years.

And of course the word homosexuality wasn't used in biblical times, since they didn't speak English. I'm sure there's a word in Greek or Aramaic that translates. Stop playing semantics.

Dismayed:

Let me clarify something. When I read the Bible, I ask the Holy Spirit to illuminate and enlighten me, in a sense, to interpret the text to me, and the Holy Spirit does so in a literal way. So, I do take the words literally, as the Holy Spirit so directs. There is ONE way in which I interpret the Bible, and I'd say its Spirit-led, "literal" interpretation. Understand?

Actually, wishing revenge on someone else is not at all biblical. If you read the Bible literally in its proper historical context, "an eye for an eye" deals with how the civil government punishes people for crimes. Thus, it is a metaphor that on a basic level endorses the death penalty. However, as a Spirit-led literalist, I cannot just take a Scripture like "an eye for an eye," and make a conclusion solely on that verse. I have to look at the Bible in other verses that address the same subject. For instance, I would also have to look at Romans 13, which deals with responsibilities for the civil government, and how they DO have the power of the sword, to put to death those who do evil, i.e. that is part of the function of civil government. I have to take that verse literally as well, and let the Holy Spirit teach me how to put the verses together, in order to get the right, literal, historically correct, interpretation.

Make sense? Other thoughts or questions - ???No, none of it makes any sense unless it fits neatly into your personal agenda...you say that you take the bible literally, then you claim...metaphor when it doesn't exactly suit you...like the bible itself, it was conceived, written and translated by those with personal translations and agendas...

Nobody in at least 400 years.

And that is assuming the Catholic Church is Christian.

You're sure of that, huh? If there was, you don't think that it would have been used long before NIV?
Nobody in at least 400 years.

And of course the word homosexuality wasn't used in biblical times, since they didn't speak English. I'm sure there's a word in Greek or Aramaic that translates. Stop playing semantics.

I just noticed that you wrote, "Nobody in the last 400 years"...was that in answer to my question re: how many people have the radical xtians killed in their quest? what about the bomb throwing antiabortionist? what about the radical parents that have driven their normal teenagers to commit suicide because they couldn't live up to their nonsensical parents whims and beliefs? I could go on, but I doubt that your attention span could handle it.
Nobody in at least 400 years.

And of course the word homosexuality wasn't used in biblical times, since they didn't speak English. I'm sure there's a word in Greek or Aramaic that translates. Stop playing semantics.

And I expect that in the next breath, you will attempt to also lump the Mormans into that basket as well, right?
And that is assuming the Catholic Church is Christian.

And I expect that in the next breath, you will attempt to also lump the Mormans into that basket as well, right?

Read the teachings of Jesus them read the teachings and actions of the Catholic Church. And the Mormons, If you like. They don't jive.

I could go on, but I doubt that your attention span could handle it.

Great. Another old person looking down on me because I'm younger and apparently ADD. Nevermind that she posts in comic sans.

Read the teachings of Jesus them read the teachings and actions of the Catholic Church. And the Mormons, If you like. They don't jive.And your point would be???????????

Great. Another old person looking down on me because I'm younger and apparently ADD. Nevermind that she posts in comic sans.And how would I know how old you are? Or, for that matter, ADD? Or, for that matter, what difference it makes whether I post in script or comic sans or in purple? Dislike things that are different?