Your comment that I have a short attention span was condescending.

1. Christian means to be like Christ (Jesus).
2. To be like Christ means to follow His teachings.
3. Therefore, Christian means to follow His teachings
4. The teachings and actions of the Catholic Church and Mormon Church do not follow the teachings of Christ.
5. Therefore, both churches are not Christian.

Simple geometric proof.

Your attention span must be lacking if you cannot follow this thread.

Your comment that I have a short attention span was condescending.It was referring to your inability to think outside the little box in which you have chosen to live and reason, and yes, it did sound condescending, didn't it?

Well aren't you rude?

You in no way have the ability to determine the size of the "box" I live and reason in based on one thread topic.


1 Corinthians 6:9 (NIV)
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders.

1 Corinthians 6:9 (Contemporary English Version
Don't you know that evil people won't have a share in the blessings of God's kingdom? Don't fool yourselves! No one who is immoral or worships idols or is unfaithful in marriage or is a pervert or behaves like a homosexual

1 Corinthians 6:9 (Youngs Literal Translation)
have ye not known that the unrighteous the reign of God shall not inherit? be not led astray; neither whoremongers, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor sodomites,

1 Corinthians 6:9 (Wycliffe)
Whether ye know not, that wicked men shall not wield the kingdom of God? Do not ye err; neither lechers, neither men that serve maumets [neither men serving to idols], neither adulterers, neither lechers against kind, neither they that do lechery with men

1 Corinthians 6:9 (King James Version)
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,


I guess the 16th century British called them "effiminates". Good thing we narrowed that down.

And I'm quite certain that is exactly how you would like to keep it, "SIMPLE". Are you an expert on the teachings of both churches? I doubt it or you wouldn't make those statements. You seem to be speaking in a language that is easy to regurgitate when certain questions are raised or certain statements are made...let's take, for granted, for a moment, the Jesus and his teachings that you have been taught to know, existed and walked some physical ground, you would have had to have walked with him, side by side to know exactly what he thought and taught...even those who lived in those times did not completely understand what who he was and what he taught.
1. Christian means to be like Christ (Jesus).
2. To be like Christ means to follow His teachings.
3. Therefore, Christian means to follow His teachings
4. The teachings and actions of the Catholic Church and Mormon Church do not follow the teachings of Christ.
5. Therefore, both churches are not Christian.

Simple geometric proof.

Your attention span must be lacking if you cannot follow this thread.

And furthermore, for an OLD PERSON, I don't think that I have too much difficulty with my attention span

Catholicsm, and especially Mormonism, are from from Biblical Christianity.

Mormons believe that good men become Gods and get their own planet, which they then populate with "spirit babies" birthed by their wives from earthly life.

Well aren't you rude?

You in no way have the ability to determine the size of the "box" I live and reason in based on one thread topic.


1 Corinthians 6:9 (NIV)
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders.

1 Corinthians 6:9 (Contemporary English Version
Don't you know that evil people won't have a share in the blessings of God's kingdom? Don't fool yourselves! No one who is immoral or worships idols or is unfaithful in marriage or is a pervert or behaves like a homosexual

1 Corinthians 6:9 (Youngs Literal Translation)
have ye not known that the unrighteous the reign of God shall not inherit? be not led astray; neither whoremongers, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor sodomites,

1 Corinthians 6:9 (Wycliffe)
Whether ye know not, that wicked men shall not wield the kingdom of God? Do not ye err; neither lechers, neither men that serve maumets [neither men serving to idols], neither adulterers, neither lechers against kind, neither they that do lechery with men

1 Corinthians 6:9 (King James Version)
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,


I guess the 16th century British called them "effiminates". Good thing we narrowed that down.Preach on brother!!! Like I said, if you need to put things in their little boxes to understand them, so be it. I think that the topic was the Jesus Camp Documentary, wasn't it? I had the displeasure of watching it and saw nothing but brain washing, much of it negative in manner. I imagine those children went back to civilation, school (oops, they probably don't go to public school) and went to preaching and condemning, much like you are now.

Well apparently you can't concentrate on the point I have made.

My point is that the Catholic church is not Christianity. I'm not trying to prove anything else here.

And it doesn't take an expert to know the history of the churches and their general doctrine.

went to preaching and condemning, much like you are now.

All I did was provide you with the proof you were asking for.

The NIV did not make up the part about homosexuality.

Catholicsm, and especially Mormonism, are from from Biblical Christianity.

Mormons believe that good men become Gods and get their own planet, which they then populate with "spirit babies" birthed by their wives from earthly life.
Not exactly, LOL

All I did was provide you with the proof you were asking for.

The NIV did not make up the part about homosexuality.Did I say that they made it up? I said that they were the only ones (the latest rendition) that interpreted it, using that word.

All I did was provide you with the proof you were asking for.

The NIV did not make up the part about homosexuality.Proof??? Proof? Regurgitating is not proof, it is what it is.

Grandmama: The New American Standard (NAS) Bible uses "homosexual" in both 1 Cor. 6 and 1 Tim. 1. The New King James Version (NKJV) uses "homosexual" in 1 Cor. 6 and then uses the term "sodomite" in 1 Tim. 1. Biblical history informs us that the sin of Sodom was basically homosexuality, and thus "sodomite" is a clear synonym for "homosexual," or one who practices homosexuality. If you don't believe me, go to any state's law books and find the anti-sodomy law. "Sodomy" is legally a "code word," if you will, for homosexuality.

Grandmama, I don't like the NIV. It wasn't translated using the literal, historical-grammatical method. Instead, it was translated thought-for-thought (not word-for-word). The King James Version (KJV), and the aforementioned NKJV and NAS are all word-for-word translations, so they are better, in my humble opinion.

Grandmama, please hear me. I don't have a personal agenda. I really don't. My one "obsession," if you will, in life, is Jesus Christ --- I want to be a passionate follower of Him, and I want everyone else to be one, too. So any "agenda" that you might perceive on my part is NOT my personal agenda, but God's "agenda."

Further, I'd like to ask you, Grandmama, if you're a Christian, and do you know Christ as your Lord and Savior - ?

Not exactly, LOL

Uh, yeah, exactly. But either way, that is NOT Christianity. Why do you think they had to write their own scripture?


Did I say that they made it up? I said that they were the only ones (the latest rendition) that interpreted it, using that word.

Uh, no they obviously are not, because I also quoted the CEV. Do I need to also quote the New American Standard Bible, the Amplified Bible, the New Living Translation, the Holman Christian Standard Bible, and the Today's New International Version, all of which use the word homosexual?

WOW.


Proof??? Proof? Regurgitating is not proof, it is what it is.

see above

All you need to know about Mormonism, you can get from South Park.

All you need to know about Mormonism, you can get from South Park.I had a feeling that was your spiritual source, now I am certain...LOL

Of course, no response to me, since you got OWNED.

Don't you understand that people evolve, in every way...hopefully, most of us do anyway. How many references have you quoted to me as reliable references (surely you wouldn't have quoted them if you didn't think that they were reliable) and you fault the Morman church for using two? They also use the Bible and the Book of Mormon, how many do you use? What references did you use to "discover" that the sodomites' sin was sodomy..? LOL....they were called Sodomites because they lived in Sodom. Their sin was that they lived a life of pleasure seeking, Pagan worshipping and self indulgence. It had nothing to do with sodomy...what a lateral leap!

Of course, no response to me, since you got OWNED.Owned????

We are not arguing whether homosexuality is a sin.

You said the NIV is the only translation that includes that word, and you were completely, utterly wrong.

We are not arguing whether homosexuality is a sin.

You said the NIV is the only translation that includes that word, and you were completely, utterly wrong.WE are not arguing.

We are not arguing whether homosexuality is a sin.

You said the NIV is the only translation that includes that word, and you were completely, utterly wrong.People will, as they always have, continue to translate and retranslate until "the source" says what they want it to say. Even the KJV is an example of that.

We can't read it in Aramaic or Greek, so we translate it. I don't know what's so hard to understand about that. And you STILL have not conceded that you were wrong about the word homosexual being exclusive to the NIV.

We can't read it in Aramaic or Greek, so we translate it. I don't know what's so hard to understand about that. And you STILL have not conceded that you were wrong about the word homosexual being exclusive to the NIV.Is that the only point that you are trying to make? Oh, the KJV is in English, why is there a need for more translations if that is the reason?

Because it uses words like "lecher" and "beget" that nobody understands. Why on earth would we keep using that when there are translations that are in modern English AND are closer to the original text?

You may not realize that the subsequent translations are not translations of the KJV into more modern English, but have gone back to the original text are re-translated to today's vernacular.

You may not realize that the subsequent translations are not translations of the KJV into more modern English, but have gone back to the original text are re-translated to today's vernacular.My question was feeding off of your statement re: needing english, not my education nor lack of it.

You may not realize that the subsequent translations are not translations of the KJV into more modern English, but have gone back to the original text are re-translated to today's vernacular.Today's vernacular, but with the same agendas

Even though I no longer post on this board, I do stop by occasionally to read. I just had to come back again to say: GRANDMAMA ROCKS!

I never said anything about a lack of education on your part. That is not a commonly known fact and you sounded as if you believed that someone just went to the KJV and translated from that text.

awwwwwwww :)
Even though I no longer post on this board, I do stop by occasionally to read. I just had to come back again to say: GRANDMAMA ROCKS!

Today's vernacular, but with the same agendas

If your so sure, why don't you show me an example of where the original Greek has been twisted to say something different in an English translation?

I never said anything about a lack of education on your part. That is not a commonly known fact and you sounded as if you believed that someone just went to the KJV and translated from that text.If you will digress and review your posts prior to mine, you will see what I'm referring to.

If your so sure, why don't you show me an example of where the original Greek has been twisted to say something different in an English translation?
I never said that I was so sure of anything, I just said or implied that you didn't have enough information of your own with which to formulate an opinion, nor the maturity to know it if you had it.

In my humble opinion, anyone who thinks that they definitely and absolutely know something for sure, needs to do some more evolving.

You claim it was translated with an agenda. Prove it. Obviously you can't because you keep dodging the question.

Now, why don't we go back to topic?

Dodge.

You claim it was translated with an agenda. Prove it. Obviously you can't because you keep dodging the question.You seem to keep forgetting your place...you are the one that is attempting to prove something, I just say that you cannot. You know, they don't call it the KJV for nothing. Do you know what happened to the first team of scribes that were commissioned to translate the "bible"?...they weren't doing it the way 'ole KJ wanted it done, so he killed them off and got some more...well, guess what, these new fellas didn't want to die, so they did it the way the boss told them to...want to take time to check it out before you reply? :pat_head:

Dodge.
Actually, getting back to the topic is not a dodge, it's the rules and we veered way off, you and I both did...I just suggested that we get back on it.

Exactly why I (and the majority of today's Christians) do not use the KJV.



Today's vernacular, but with the same agendas

Prove it or concede that you only said that because that's what your fellow atheists told you.

I never purported that my views on homosexuality were fact. YOU, however claimed that it was fact that the NIV was the only translation that used the word "homosexual", and you were dead wrong. Now you claim to be fact something that you have no proof of.

Grandmama, having played this game before, I'd like to offer some friendly advice. It is highly unlikely that anyone on a forum will change their personal beliefs because of something they read on a board. I have my opinions, they have theirs and on the topic of religion, the believers and I disagree. That does not make either of us right, just convinced. These really are good people, but on this topic, emotions lie very close to the surface, and arguments and vitriol are generally unproductive. Just my two cents!

I never purported that my views on homosexuality were fact. YOU, however claimed that it was fact that the NIV was the only translation that used the word "homosexual", and you were dead wrong. Now you claim to be fact something that you have no proof of.Exactly what are you wanting proof of?

Grandmama, having played this game before, I'd like to offer some friendly advice. It is highly unlikely that anyone on a forum will change their personal beliefs because of something they read on a board. I have my opinions, they have theirs and on the topic of religion, the believers and I disagree. That does not make either of us right, just convinced. These really are good people, but on this topic, emotions lie very close to the surface, and arguments and vitriol are generally unproductive. Just my two cents!2 cents accepted, was I producing vitriol?

Can you prove you weren't?

Exactly what are you wanting proof of?

I've asked several times...


If your so sure, why don't you show me an example of where the original Greek has been twisted to say something different in an English translation?

Also, see post #103. KJV doesn't count because that's not today's vernacular.

Can you prove you weren't?Is it a requirement? :rolleyes:

I've asked several times...Why don't you just work on the "sodomite" thinghy, that should keep you busy for a while.

WOW. and I thought my whole lifechurch 5 page argument was pointless. lol. this whole "give me references and then let me ignore them and say they aren't good enough" gives me de ja vu. did grandmama just tell you to get back in your place jbrown?? :ohno: :boxing2:

SERIOUSLY....

:backtotop

Does anyone know the name of this video?? I really want to watch it to see what the hoopla is about.

"give me references and then let me ignore them and say they aren't good enough"

Exactly. And I'm the immature one?


Obviously granny is full of wind, since she continues to dodge my request for proof of an "agenda" in modern translations.

Exactly. And I'm the immature one?


Obviously granny is full of wind, since she continues to dodge my request for proof of an "agenda" in modern translations.One more time, and that's it! I am not the one that is trying to convince you of anything, I have only, (through all of this obviously wasted effort) said things that I actually thought would convince you to think, it didn't work. I never asked for references, I never wanted them and you couldn't provide any credible ones that could/would support your beliefs anyway, so I have no idea why you are sniggling. The proof is there, if only read with an open mind.

Okay, well I have a college education, so I don't need you to tell me how to think.

Forget the argument about homosexuality. That will never be solved.

You have yet to defend your assertion that the NIV was the only translation with that word, and you have also yet to defend your assertion that the original text has been twisted by modern translators with an agenda.

I'm not that well versed regarding the part/parts of the christian bible where it uses the term "homosexual" Can anyone enlighten me?

Verses using the actual term homosexuality have already been quoted.

Even if the Bible hadn't used the term specifically, Romans 1 pretty much describes it in vivid detail as sinful:

God's Wrath Against Mankind

18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. 28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

WOW. and I thought my whole lifechurch 5 page argument was pointless. lol. this whole "give me references and then let me ignore them and say they aren't good enough" gives me de ja vu. did grandmama just tell you to get back in your place jbrown?? :ohno: :boxing2:

SERIOUSLY....

:backtotop

Does anyone know the name of this video?? I really want to watch it to see what the hoopla is about.

If someone can't back up their statements with facts, then they need to concede that they're wrong.

One more time, and that's it! I am not the one that is trying to convince you of anything, I have only, (through all of this obviously wasted effort) said things that I actually thought would convince you to think, it didn't work. I never asked for references, I never wanted them and you couldn't provide any credible ones that could/would support your beliefs anyway, so I have no idea why you are sniggling. The proof is there, if only read with an open mind.

You made the statement that the writers of the different translations had an agenda, yet, you can't prove your own statement to be true based on facts. Thus you have three options: 1. Back up your statement with facts or 2. concede that you have no facts to back up your claim and admit that you're wrong. 3. Claim that it's an opinion, not fact.

I never said that I was so sure of anything, I just said or implied that you didn't have enough information of your own with which to formulate an opinion, nor the maturity to know it if you had it.

He's already backed up his statements with facts. You're the one who hasn't backed up your comments with facts.

Maturity isn't the issue here. It's making statements that are based on a foundation of good evidence.

In my humble opinion, anyone who thinks that they definitely and absolutely know something for sure, needs to do some more evolving.


So, are you saying that you're not definitely and absolutely sure that water is a liquid at temps ranging from 0 degrees C to 100 degress C? Are you not for sure that babies grow? Are you not for sure that the world is round? Are you not for sure that grass is green.....really, is that an illusion made up by frogs? Are you not certain you're a female? I could go on and on.