The Ford Center is every bit as nice as:
http://basketball.ballparks.com/NBA/NewOrleansHornets/front.jpg

Detroit's arena doesn't look all that either:

http://basketball.ballparks.com/NBA/DetroitPistons/front.jpg

And The United Center:

http://basketball.ballparks.com/NBA/ChicagoBulls/aerial.jpg (http://hockey.ballparks.com/NHL/ChicagoBlackhawks/index.htm)

This will probably get deleted but building a new arena in OKC is the dumbest idea yet. If your offended by this then good, you should be. The Ford center is only 5 years old. Granted it was not built with all of the amenties of the Staples Center or the AA Center, but it doesn't have to be.

The only thing these places have more of are the luxury suites. OKC doesn't need 175 suites like the Staples Center or the 143 suites in the AA Center. Who the hell would buy these in OKC. The Ford Center has 56 suites. Meanwhile ARCO Arena is Sacramento only has 30. TD Waterhouse in Orlando has 26 suites. Delta Center in St Lake City has 56. The Quicken Loans arena in Cleveland has 98 suites but only 28 are in the lower part. I could go on and on but you get the idea.

If OKC had 3, 4, or 5 professional tennats then you could make an arguement for larger arena but we don't. I think what we will see is about $40 million in upgrades. The entrances will improved, some glass added to the exterior, and maybe seating turned into suites but a new stadium is not in the works.

And one final thing - the Sonics are not going to KC. You would have to be stupid to think that.

I think we all agree a new arena will be needed at some point, it's just when and where.

I don't think the current site of the Cox Center is big enough for the type of convention center we'll want down the road, so it makes more sense to put that just south of the Ford Center so we'll have plenty of room to build and expand.

Seems to me if and when we need/want a world-class arena, it could be built on the Cox site which already has some infrastructure -- such as underground parking and connection to the Underground -- that would be useful.


So, for Maps 3, I don't think we need to contemplate a new arena, just some improvements to the Ford Center. Then, we focus on the more immediate need of convention space while still having access to that at the Cox Center in the short term.


Plus, as much as we all hope the NBA moves here and becomes a raging success, you never know what is going to happen five years down the road. The team could be bought and relocated for all we know. I *love* the fact we already have a good arena in place and don't have to go spend hundreds of millions. Let's continue to be smart about this and spend the big bucks once we've gotten some real use out of the Ford Center and know the NBA is here to stay.

That Miami arena is UGGGHH-ly. And of course no one would say that NO's arena is more attractive than the Ford.

For comparison, here's the Ford Center:

http://maps.newsok.com/features/maps/maps_gallery/images/gallery_ford_2003_9.jpg
http://graphics.fansonly.com/confs/big12/graphics/07mbb-ford-center-440.jpg

What we're aiming to build is something along the lines of the FedEx Forum, Charlotte Center, Conseco Fieldhouse, or AT&T Center.

It's not the aesthetics we're talking about, it's fan/player amenities, layout, suites/club space, etc...

Patrick, it's not us you have to sell this to. It's whatever prospective team that is deciding whether or not to make Oklahoma City its new home.

I've been to the Staples Center plenty of times and it's nothing great. In fact, it's 3 years older than the Ford Center. The huge amount of suites really detracts from the atmosphere because not only are all the fat cats inside and detached from the game, the upper level of seating -- fully half the seats in the place -- seem like they are in another building.

Even if you could come up with the money, it doesn't seem responsible to spend half a billion dollars on a basketball venue. Every community has lots of other needs... Why not build one for $200 mil and use the rest for other things?

Think about what you could do with $300-$400 million in Oklahoma City... That's about what all of the first MAPS program cost -- *including* the Ford Center!

As I said, I don't blame Seattle legislators for pushing off the $500 million arena. They could still build a $200 million arena, and spend $300 million on schools or something....and still end up with a nice arena. The people of Seattle are the smart ones here.

This will probably get deleted but building a new arena in OKC is the dumbest idea yet.

Kerry, your idea won't get deleted. You're always welcome to your opinions here.

We've talked about this before but one of the easy ways to upgrade the Ford Center and add amenities would be to expand it to the southwest after I-40 is demolished and the off-ramp is removed.

I could see a big atrium that would front the new boulevard & Robinson:

http://mysite.verizon.net/res17zef/fordcenter2.jpg

It's a very spartan place.



Hey! What's wrong with that?

Kerry, your idea won't get deleted. You're always welcome to your opinions here.



Why would you think that you would be deleted?

Just looking at the picture below, I see a nice place for that high rise office tower that we're all wanting. Let's tear down Century Center, and put it there. Would sure add to the skyline.


We've talked about this before but one of the easy ways to upgrade the Ford Center and add amenities would be to expand it to the southwest after I-40 is demolished and the off-ramp is removed.

I could see a big atrium that would front the new boulevard & Robinson:

http://mysite.verizon.net/res17zef/fordcenter2.jpg

But, shouldn't Kansas City have a plan to replace the Crystal Palace in 5 years too? I don't see the difference. You're trying to say that arenas only have a life of 5 years. What does that say about other arenas in the league, like Madison Square Garden?

Madison Square Garden was built in, I think, 1962. In "dog years" that makes it older than God. No new arena at this time.

In the world of NBA arenas we purchased a Kia, it is a top of the line Kia, but it is still a Kia. (nothing against Kia's by the way) Now you can paint this Kia, put a new stereo in your Kia, and "pimp your ride" all you want. The fact is that it is still a Kia.

Now the new arena will be a Bentley, with all of the bells and whistles. So say 20 years from now what do you want to be driving. Your Kia or your Bentley?

Actually, neither. Bentley's are ugly and way too expensive, and Kia's are a bit too low. I like my Chevrolet. And the one named after Chevrolet's competitor located at Reno and Norick.

:bow:

So what are we going to do, spend $500 million every 5 years to build a new arena? I don't know any city that would do that. The city of Seattle is different....they have a 30 year old arena that needs replacing. When the Ford Center is 20-30 years old, it will need replacing as well. For now, we have a new arena.

NO, We'll spend $500 Million every 20-30 years. We spent $90 million or something in that range for the Ford Center. It's already paid for itself.... Come on now Patrick you can't expect a $90 million arena to last much longer than 5 more years in the NBA, if that.

NO, We'll spend $500 Million every 20-30 years. We spent $90 million or something in that range for the Ford Center. It's already paid for itself.... Come on now Patrick you can't expect a $90 million arena to last much longer than 5 more years in the NBA, if that.

I don't think price really matters. As has been stated, the building is unfinished. Throw another $100 million at it, and you have a typical NBA arena. We already have the shell. There's no need to start over. Also, remember...this is Oklahoma...costs here are much less than in Seattle. Land alone saved us on the Ford Center.

For comparison sake, New Orleans arena cost $84 million to build.

Looking at other arenas in the league, most ran in the upper 100 millions to build. But, remember, we have the lowest cost of living in the nation, and thus prices are much cheaper here, land included.

A question that needs to be asked is how much would it cost us 10-15-20 years from now? The price tags on these arenas keeps shooting up, who knows WHAT it will be like then? 900 mil?

That's the spirit.

We need to try and get some of these construction projects done now, and right the first time, and we'll save big bucks in the end.

Well, this just in....Autozone Park in Memphis was built for over $80 million, while the Bricktown Ballpark had a cost of a little over $30 million. I bet next year we should build a new ballpark and bulldoze The Brick....do I hear $100 mill for a new ballpark?

Instead of envying price tags howabout envying savings? I laugh at KC every time they tell me this on their forum:


Yes, the Ford Center is a cheap arena...you paid $80M for it, what do you expect? It's not up to NBA current standards.

Good GAWD!
The MAPS projects is to be for the good all.
Not just the sports fans.
You have the Ford Center and for now thats all,you should get.
Lets focus on the infrastruture, ie public transportation,the roads,streets,parking DownTown.
How about the general rehab of the most unsightly areas of the city,
like around the Capitol, the routes in and out of the Downtown/Bricktown.
Your sports arena, ie the Big Ego.
Wouldn't mean crap, if they the visitors tell the folks back home, Nice City, but hell the roads/streets,torn the hell out of my shocks , or GAWD darn it was dirty,broken sidewalks, hardly no parking,vacant buildings, with no care to it at all
I wouldn't mind visiting, but to hell with living there" and the visit maybe a long time till the next one.
NO SPORTS TEAM, or event will be consistant in pulling those folks into a City like that.
YEA Jethro! think curb and street and sight appeal,and getting into and parking,getting around, it means alot.
thank you for letting me have my 2 minutes of RANTING

Well, this just in....Autozone Park in Memphis was built for over $80 million, while the Bricktown Ballpark had a cost of a little over $30 million. I bet next year we should build a new ballpark and bulldoze The Brick....do I hear $100 mill for a new ballpark?
Now, you're just being lame.

Are you telling me that if a major league baseball franchise were considering a move to Oklahoma City, but said the $30 million Bricktown Ballpark was insufficient, we wouldn't build a new one? Come on, Patrick.

This will probably get deleted but building a new arena in OKC is the dumbest idea yet. If your offended by this then good, you should be. The Ford center is only 5 years old. Granted it was not built with all of the amenties of the Staples Center or the AA Center, but it doesn't have to be.

The only thing these places have more of are the luxury suites. OKC doesn't need 175 suites like the Staples Center or the 143 suites in the AA Center. Who the hell would buy these in OKC. The Ford Center has 56 suites. Meanwhile ARCO Arena is Sacramento only has 30. TD Waterhouse in Orlando has 26 suites. Delta Center in St Lake City has 56. The Quicken Loans arena in Cleveland has 98 suites but only 28 are in the lower part. I could go on and on but you get the idea.

If OKC had 3, 4, or 5 professional tennats then you could make an arguement for larger arena but we don't. I think what we will see is about $40 million in upgrades. The entrances will improved, some glass added to the exterior, and maybe seating turned into suites but a new stadium is not in the works.

And one final thing - the Sonics are not going to KC. You would have to be stupid to think that.

Kerry I guess I'm stupid then...If OKC acts like they are doing Bennett a favor by him bringing them here then he could go elsewhere....Not saying it will happen, but we don't need to walk around thinking our sh** don't stink...We would be the smallest market with an NBA team outside of Nawlin's and players aren't exactly bending over backwards to move to our fine city

No one is saying build it right now...The Ford Center will do just fine for 5 years or so and then an arena will need to get built...I say if we do land the Sonics they will be playing in a fancy new arena by 2015

:iagree::yeahthat: What he said...

Exactly Easy180, the Ford Center will do right now with about $100mil in upgrades however, whomever said don't put an arena in MAPSIII I think is foolish. The NBA and owners have said loosely that they'd move without a decent arena. Keep in mind MAPS For Kids doesn't run out into 2009, that means MAPS3 can't go in effect until after that, the tax goes for a vote, takes a few years to build the arena, and BAM! It's 2015. The question is, will our new arena be ready or will we be typical Oklahoma and be reactive or be proactive and think ahead early. Instead of just starting the idea/tax/discussion around 2015.

And whomever said enough money to the sports fans, I see the point but disagree somewhat. Having an NBA team is a priceless asset to our city PR wise and name recognition, etc. I'm not a very big sports fan either but I wholeheartedly support it. Don't forget, concerts, rodeos, conventions, and other things take place in the arena as well. Not to mention the huge BOOST to our economy that these tax dollars create. These tax dollars DO BENEFIT EVERYONE in the metro whether they realize it or not. They help pay for roads, bridges, parks, etc. Keep in mind, that without these events, these are millions of dollars in revenue that the city would not have each year. The arena's pay for themselves regardless if your not a user for it.

You must remember that the general voting public will see Maps 3 with a new arena and think one thing: "we just got a new arena, sounds like a waste of money". While many of you may be looking to the future and "get it", the general voter will likely see it as a waste of money.

Unless it's made very clear that the new arena would be the last project to begin construction.

The Ford Center was the last and think how long it was between the 1993 vote and the Ford's completion.

We have a new arena. No one in their right mind in this city would support another new arena for MAPS III. Remember, MAPS I was only $300 million. I'm not even sure people would supprot a third of that going to upgrades at the Ford Center. We have more immediate needs.

Our fair grounds continue to need improvements. Our parks need improvements. Our city needs beautification. We need quality of life. Building a $500 million arena in a suck town isn't going to accomplish what we need to accomplish. Core to Shore needs to be completed before we discuss building new arenas, and we need to get a good 10-15 years use out of the Ford Center, before we even discuss building a new arena.

Good GAWD!
The MAPS projects is to be for the good all.
Not just the sports fans.
You have the Ford Center and for now thats all,you should get.
Lets focus on the infrastruture, ie public transportation,the roads,streets,parking DownTown.
How about the general rehab of the most unsightly areas of the city,
like around the Capitol, the routes in and out of the Downtown/Bricktown.
Your sports arena, ie the Big Ego.
Wouldn't mean crap, if they the visitors tell the folks back home, Nice City, but hell the roads/streets,torn the hell out of my shocks , or GAWD darn it was dirty,broken sidewalks, hardly no parking,vacant buildings, with no care to it at all
I wouldn't mind visiting, but to hell with living there" and the visit maybe a long time till the next one.
NO SPORTS TEAM, or event will be consistant in pulling those folks into a City like that.
YEA Jethro! think curb and street and sight appeal,and getting into and parking,getting around, it means alot.
thank you for letting me have my 2 minutes of RANTING

I think a professional franchise and a new arena will both solve many of these problems. A top of the line arena will draw top of the line performances and sporting events. If we can get into the business of hosting NCAA regionals, Big XII tournaments, and the best concerts in the world because of our amazing facility, I think we can make some money. Building a new arena will eventually be necessary for sustaining a NBA franchise long term. It will be expensive, yes, but it will also mean that we will have millions of dollars pumped into our economy each year that we don't currently have. Sure we get the occasional big name concert or whatever, but if we have an arena on par to Dallas's arena, the sky's the limit as far as economic opportunity.

Our arena is fine for a city without a major league tenant. It would be good for a town like Little Rock, Birmingham, or Tulsa. We used to belong to that group. No longer, though; we are now literally in the same league as San Antonio, Cleveland, and Indianapolis. Its time to either pump in some major upgrades to the Ford Center, or build a new arena. The Ford Center in its current state is inadequate in the long term.

You must remember that the general voting public will see Maps 3 with a new arena and think one thing: "we just got a new arena, sounds like a waste of money". While many of you may be looking to the future and "get it", the general voter will likely see it as a waste of money.

MAPS III will never pass with a new arena. We already have a new arena.

As Patrick said, if we include a new arena, we need to include a new baseball park, a new Civic Center, a new downtown library, and a new canal.

Its time to either pump in some major upgrades to the Ford Center, or build a new arena. The Ford Center in its current state is inadequate in the long term.

Then let's pump more money into the Ford Center. Let's complete what we've started, before we go on to something else.

Original MAPS: vote in 1993, completion in 2002; $350 million

MAPS for Kids: vote in 2001, completion approx. 2011; $470 million

MAPS III: vote approx. 2008, completion in approx. 2018; approx. $600 million


So, you could either add a new area for the tail-end of MAPS III, or wait until the next likely public works project proposal (MAPS IV) in approximately 7-8 years and have the arena be the first project out of the chute.

Personally, I don't think a new arena should be a part of MAPS III for the reasons I stated previously: 1) we can upgrade the Ford Center and get another 10 years use of it; 2) we have other priorities, especially with the core-to-shore opportunity; and 3) I think it would be hard to pass MAPS III with a new arena.

Worse case, MAPS 4 could come a little sooner than the 7-8 year cycle we seem to be on presently. And as far as planning, the new arena could easily go on the site of the current Cox Center, especially if we build a new convention center to the south of the Ford.

I'm with MalibuSooner. Let's complete Core to Shore first, then consider building a new arena after we've gotten our money's worth out of the Ford Center, with improvements and all.

In MAPS IV we can propose a new, nicer, arena.

MAPS III will never pass with a new arena. We already have a new arena.

As Patrick said, if we include a new arena, we need to include a new baseball park, a new Civic Center, a new downtown library, and a new canal.

Never is such a strong word...AND the new arena won't cost anywhere near $500 million...More like $250 so let's please stop quoting the half a billion figure

Here is a question for you....Let's all think back a few years and remember how much NATIONAL exposure we had received and compare it to these last two years with the Hornets...Articles and pieces from all types of magazines, tv and newspapers across the nation stating how surprised they were how far Oklahoma has come and what it has to offer

Last national exposure (Sad to say) we had before this was the Murrah bombing....Do we want to go back to complete anonymity??

Never is such a strong word...AND the new arena won't cost anywhere near $500 million...More like $250 so let's please stop quoting the half a billion figure

So you put $150 million into the Ford Center, and you have a $250 million new arena. Solved!

There's nothing wrong with the Ford Center, that a few upgrades can't solve. I repeat, there's nothing wrong with the Ford Center, that a few upgrades can't solve.

So you put $150 million into the Ford Center, and you have a $250 million new arena. Solved!

There's nothing wrong with the Ford Center, that a few upgrades can't solve. I repeat, there's nothing wrong with the Ford Center, that a few upgrades can't solve.

May I ask you how you can upgrade the Ford Center to the tune of $150 Million?...Thats some serious locker rooms and suites since it cost more than the entire arena

$50 Mil on upgrades and $250 Mil right along the river

And you may think the Ford center is perfect, but Bennett has already made it known a new arena will be expected if he comes back home...So I take it you will take Seattle's stance if the Sonics come to OKC java?

It's cool if you do, but the end result would likely be the same as they are now experiencing

Ok folks, a brand spanking new arena is not going to give OKC amazing name recognition. We could spend more money on different things that will give us recognition. How will a new arena make us any different than any other city? Is there anything unique or outstanding about having a $250 million arena vs. the Ford Center? Yes, the Hornets provided an amazing showcase of the city and we proved ourselves as a place that is capable of the big time, but the Sonics do not need a new arena. We do not need to be indebted to a sports team. $50 million in improvements to the Ford Center would be more than enough to hold us over for 10-15 years. If not, do we really want the NBA here? Face it, the NBA is NOT the only way or thing to draw visitors and new residents to the city. Let's focus on new and innovative ideas to make OKC great, not just another arena.

Ok folks, a brand spanking new arena is not going to give OKC amazing name recognition. We could spend more money on different things that will give us recognition. How will a new arena make us any different than any other city? Is there anything unique or outstanding about having a $250 million arena vs. the Ford Center? Yes, the Hornets provided an amazing showcase of the city and we proved ourselves as a place that is capable of the big time, but that will not happen again. Face it, the NBA is NOT the only way or thing to draw visitors and new residents to the city. Let's focus on new and innovative ideas to make OKC great, not just another arena.

liberal...A new arena won't directly give us amazing name recognition, but obtaining and retaining an NBA team will....It has already been proven

Not as if we can't do anything else in the entire city if we build an arena starting in 5 years ...Can do many other innovative ideas that with the NBA around will get much more publicity than w/o

The Ford Center is not 'new', by any means.

but Bennett has already made it known a new arena will be expected if he comes back home...

For one, he already has a new arena. It's called the Ford Center.

For two, he's never said that building a newer arena in Oklahoma City was expected. So, your statement is incorrect.

For three, if Bennett can't live with the Ford Center, screw him. Bring Shinn back to town.

Ok folks, a brand spanking new arena is not going to give OKC amazing name recognition. We could spend more money on different things that will give us recognition. How will a new arena make us any different than any other city? Is there anything unique or outstanding about having a $250 million arena vs. the Ford Center? Yes, the Hornets provided an amazing showcase of the city and we proved ourselves as a place that is capable of the big time, but the Sonics do not need a new arena. We do not need to be indebted to a sports team. $50 million in improvements to the Ford Center would be more than enough to hold us over for 10-15 years. If not, do we really want the NBA here? Face it, the NBA is NOT the only way or thing to draw visitors and new residents to the city. Let's focus on new and innovative ideas to make OKC great, not just another arena.

I agree. Having an NBA team in a world class facility, while at the same time letting the rest of your city deteriorate, is ridiculous.

Austin is a pretty classy town on the move, and they don't have an NBA team.

The renaissance in OKC was built by the many MAPS projects, not by one single arena. We need to continue that trend, continuing to improve our downtown.

MAPS III should be for commuter rail and Core to Shore. Period.

We can't do everything, and we're going to have to make some choices.

We can either do 1. commuter rail, improvements to the Ford Center, and Core to Shore, or 2. a new arena. I'd rather have all that's listed in option #1.

The Ford Center is not 'new', by any means.

If it was built in the last 5 years, it's considered new.

The Ford Center is not 'new', by any means.

The Ford Center is, I think, five years old. That is NOT old. In fact, to make a real estate investment viable is being able to recoop your investment within ten years. The Ford Center has yet to do so.

No new arena yet. If they want to improve it, fine, however, a new one is a waste of money.

The Ford Center is, I think, five years old. That is NOT old. In fact, to make a real estate investment viable is being able to recoop your investment within ten years. The Ford Center has yet to do so.

No new arena yet. If they want to improve it, fine, however, a new one is a waste of money.


:iagree: :congrats:

:iagree: :congrats:

I would like to word it very differently, but could you please point out the posts that suggest we build a new arena next month??

I don't really care if it's tied to a Maps or not...It will come into play whether you like it or not within 10 years IF we land an NBA team

Guess we will put you down for a no vote when it does

I would actually vote no if it came up to vote for MAPS III. I'm with the others that say we already have a fairly new arena, that's very expandable and upgradable. We have more pressing needs as a city that need to be addressed to keep the renaissance moving forward. For instance, we're way far behind other cities when it comes to our public transportation system. And has already been mentioned, the new development south of I-40 could easily cost over $1 billion. Those needs should be addressed before we discuss replacing an arena that we just opened not to long ago.

Plus, we have to seize the opportunity in the next MAPS to properly develop the old I-40 corridor and lands south.

How many cities get a chance to completely redevelop an area immediately adjacent to their current CBD and just as large? And do it right when the city is the middle of a massive turn-around??

Things have set up perfectly with the timing and we have to jump on it. If nothing else, we need to develop that boulevard properly, build a large amout of convention space and at least secure most the core to shore land. In the short term, it could become a huge park and in the longer term development could be added... Just as long as we shake up OCURA first. :)

I think the citizens of OKC should vote yes, regardless if a new arena shows-up in the initiative.

But, I seriously doubt it will. The Ford Center is 5 years old and has yet to have all of the luxury amenities added to it (which the city already has the $$ for and already knew it would update at a later point). And, Bennet being from OKC would already know what OKC has to offer and would probably be more interested in zero rent and exclusitivity at Ford. Also he is full aware that I-40 will be moving in a few years and a new arena could be built across the Ford Center as part of the master-plan, and either demolish and rezone the Cox for CBD skyscraper expansion (my pref) and build a new much larger conv center and hotel complex near the new arena or just turn Cox into complete convention. Regardless, this would be a MAPS IV or V, as I-40 would need to be moved already, and Bennett is aware of this.

He also might be interested in "the amenities". That is really where a MAPS 3 might come in, if the amenities will cost more than what the city has on hand - include practice facility to that - then those might show up but they should total less than $40M in my opinion.

Honestly, I hope the practice facility gets built near OCU. Not only is it the perfect location in the central city area and one of the most diverse but also it would tie into OCU's intentions on becoming big time NCAA, which basketball would be their markee sport. An NBA practice facility nearby or on campus could be an excellent recruiting tool for the school as well as provide an instant link to the community for the SONICS AND OCU for that matter. Plus, it would add some positive infill to the blighted area where OCU is - adding one more (or two) buildings to help create density there, not to mention land is cheap also.

I think OCU is one of our best assets that is far underutilized - just because it is a private school. Well, add in the city's new NBA team's practice facility, then that might just be the catalyst to put OCU into the NCAA div 1, improve OCU relations/visibility in the city, and give that "personal touch" for the SONICS to the OKC community.

I think it would be a win-win.

Hot Rod, What's the latest on OCU's effort to return the basketball program to NCAA Division 1 status? What year are they shooting for? (Pardon the pun.) Sorry, off-topic, but a quick answer would be nice. Just really curious.

-------

Writer, I actually am not aware.

But I think the city and the university can both capitalize and sort of combine efforts. It would ONLY further enhance Oklahoma City's image as well as our basketball community if we were to locate the practice facility near/at the OCU campus. What a recruiting tool - and those players could/might want to stay in Oklahoma City once they go pro, assuming such.

And OKC surely would get visibility from an OCU team in the NCAA, its a win-win. But I don't have any insight on OCU's plans - I'd think basketball would be their markee team; I am presupposing tho.

The Ford Center is, I think, five years old. That is NOT old. In fact, to make a real estate investment viable is being able to recoop your investment within ten years. The Ford Center has yet to do so.

I never said it was an old arena, it's just not new. There are a lot of oudated things about it.

And it has definately returned our investment in it. It's paid for itself already -- the impact of the Hornets, Big XII Championships, and scores of concerts have more than covered it.

I never said it was an old arena, it's just not new. There are a lot of oudated things about it.

And it has definately returned our investment in it. It's paid for itself already -- the impact of the Hornets, Big XII Championships, and scores of concerts have more than covered it.

Show me some evidence that Ford Center has recovered their investment. Do you have their profit and loss statements for each year since it opened?

And, I believe it WAS said that Ford Center was old. Plus. No matter how you look at it, the building is still considered new. Maybe not "brand new," however, it is still new by commercial standards.

This is from '03

Oklahoma City experienced a direct economic impact of $53 million last year as a result of the events held at the Ford Center and the Civic Center, city officials said Wednesday.

According to Tom Anderson, special projects manager for the Oklahoma City manager's office, area hotels, retailers and restaurants experienced a $29 million impact from the Ford Center in the seven months that it was open in 2002.

"We had an incredible year for the city-owned facilities," he said. "We never thought the Oklahoma City market could support these events, but we have had sellout after sellout."

The $87.7 million arena opened on June 8, 2002, and was part of the Metropolitan Area Projects

The Civic Center Music Hall, which underwent a $44 million renovation as part of the MAPS program, also contributed an economic impact of $24 million to the city in 2002. Anderson said much of that impact was a result of the monthlong run of the Broadway hit Phantom of the Opera in the fall of last year.

Anderson also noted that city sales tax revenues greatly benefited in 2002 from the economic impact of both facilities.

This is from '03

Oklahoma City experienced a direct economic impact of $53 million last year as a result of the events held at the Ford Center and the Civic Center, city officials said Wednesday.

According to Tom Anderson, special projects manager for the Oklahoma City manager's office, area hotels, retailers and restaurants experienced a $29 million impact from the Ford Center in the seven months that it was open in 2002.

"We had an incredible year for the city-owned facilities," he said. "We never thought the Oklahoma City market could support these events, but we have had sellout after sellout."

The $87.7 million arena opened on June 8, 2002, and was part of the Metropolitan Area Projects

The Civic Center Music Hall, which underwent a $44 million renovation as part of the MAPS program, also contributed an economic impact of $24 million to the city in 2002. Anderson said much of that impact was a result of the monthlong run of the Broadway hit Phantom of the Opera in the fall of last year.

Anderson also noted that city sales tax revenues greatly benefited in 2002 from the economic impact of both facilities.

This does not proove whether or not the city of Oklahoma City has recovered their investment in the Ford Center. All this article says is the business expansion as a result of MAPS I. Those businesses are the ones cited as making gains, not the Ford Center.