Yes it does, thank you for informing me. I appreciate it!

No problem. That was just my two cents, for what it's worth at least.

guess they jumped the gun... any official confirmation yet?? any news at all?

BRING BACK WEDGEWOOD!!!:congrats:

How about an OKC theme park dedicated to old OKC places.....wow, what you could do with that!!! (See OKC Childhood Memories link for ideas!!!)

He couldn't do any worse than Six Flags has done. I'm willing to give him a chance.

So true. Those places are dumps. At worst he runs them into bankruptcy and they close. Would that really be any loss? IMO, They should just move the attrations out of the boonies to the river and create a boardwalk. At least the setting would add some ambiance and add value to the one-small-step-above-state-fair rides and shows at those places.

They aren't dumps, and they aren't in the boonies. The cost of moving is not practical.

They aren't dumps, and they aren't in the boonies.

OK, maybe White Water's not in the boonies, but it's close. Frontier City is definately in the boonies. As for being dumps, I have never been to any dirtier amusement parks or any with as many low grade and poorly maintained rides.


The cost of moving is not practical.

Maybe not, but parks buy rides and move them all the time. I just thought it might be worth it to do that, have a park in the city, and get some river development. I think it would draw more regionally and be an added attraction to visitors in that location than in the far NE part of the city without a lot of services.

But, I was just throwing it out there. Unless they sell it off piece by piece, such a venture is probably too big for the return the market would provide.

BDP-
Take it easy! The only "services" lacking in some parts of NE OKC(primarily east of I-35) is a lack of pizza delivery. We have electric lights AND indoor plumbing. There are plenty of restaurants and entertainment options without EVERYTHING being in Bricktown.

NE...don't think BDP was talking about the residential areas, but you have to admit it's not exactly in the ideal spot...Close to nothing surrounding Frontier City aside from a few truck stops and it is a long distance for everyone except for NE OKC and Edmond folks

BDP-
Take it easy!

Sorry Oasis. I just meant that there aren't many services for guests out by Frontier City. Not many hotel options and relatively few restaurant options.

Personally, I think the appeal of the NE side is its lack of services and its wooded neighborhoods. I'm more of a city person, but that area offers nice isolation and convenience of a city nearby. I also think it has better topography than most of the city. However, I was just saying that maybe the park would do better if it could benefit from the synergy of city type services. A lot of parks are out of populated areas because of the cheap land. Maybe it would be cool in OKC to have one in the core of the city... just an idea.

It is a very nice area, I just don't think of it as an area that's built for tourism. Sorry if I sounded like I was dogging it in general.

Actually relocating to the river near downtown would be a cool idea. Moving theme parks rides are not very expensive. Buying new ones don't cost much either. The Wildcat roller coaster was move to Frontier City from Fairy Land park in KC. Amusement rides are moved all the time.

If I remember correctly, didn't a housing developer want to buy Frontier City a few years back and replace it with homes. Interesting side note - did you know that 4 roller coasters were moved to Frontier City but were never assembled.

Roller Coaster DataBase (http://www.rcdb.com/)

So can anyone tell me why Exacaliber is sitting on the west side of the property rusting in a field? We acquired it from Six Flags Astroworld. Why don't we put it to use?

These are pictures of Exaclibur, a roller coaster that's currently sitting in pieces rusting on the west side of the property:

http://p2.rcdb.com/picmax/six-flags-astroworld/excalibur1.jpg

http://p2.rcdb.com/picmax/six-flags-astroworld/excalibur2.jpg

http://p2.rcdb.com/picmax/six-flags-astroworld/excalibur3.jpg

http://p2.rcdb.com/picmax/six-flags-astroworld/excalibur4.jpg

Here's what it currently looks like at Frontier City:

http://p2.rcdb.com/picmax/frontier-city/excalibur1.jpg

http://p2.rcdb.com/picmax/frontier-city/excalibur2.jpg

http://p2.rcdb.com/picmax/frontier-city/excalibur3.jpg

http://p2.rcdb.com/picmax/frontier-city/excalibur4.jpg

What a waste: "After sitting in storage at Frontier City for many years, the train from the Excalibur were sent to Six Flags Over Texas and the remainder of the ride was scrapped."

Based on those pictures, it appears that old ride was situated where the bobsled-style rollercoaster sits now. They call it La Vibora or something like that, but that wasn't its original name.

Has there been any new information on this or any other sale of WW/FC?

-SoonerDave

Dave, I think Excalibur came from Astroworld. La Vibora used to have a different name, and I think it is one of the oldest rides at Six Flags Over Texas.

Frontier City has certainly fallen into a fog of uncertainty. I have said for several years that I am disappointed with the decisions made at Frontier City, and the decision not to expand really irks me.

I have solved Oklahoma City's theme park problem. Here's what developers should do. Grab that junk land that is just south of the Oklahoma River and just west of I-35. There has to be at least 200 acres out there. Clear out the brush and oil tanks. Add a lake to the banks of the river and build a decent theme park called Delmar Gardens at Spring Lake. Then, when Frontier City finally puts itself out of its misery and takes the poor management with it, we can just simply incorporate a theme section of the park called Frontier City. It would be one of four theme sections of Delmar Gardens. The Frontier City section, which would be no rides and just shows with a "wild west" middle of Main Street gun fight acts; Wedgewood Village, a tribute to a past Oklahoma City theme park next to Lake Hefner (this is where all of the super steel roller coasters would be); Belle Isle Park, a section themed for carnival rides and state fair-like atmospheres; and then finally, White Water Bay, next to 'Spring Lake', the mini-lake built off of the Oklahoma River.

I believe Oklahoma City can support a theme park dedicated to our amusement heritage of the past. After all, we had several amusement parks opened at once in the late 1960's: Springlake, Wedgewood Village and Frontier City, which is clinging to life. For once I don't feel guilt about putting Frontier City out of business, especially after getting rid of the parts for the Excalibur. Cheap skates.

How about an indoor water park. These are very popular in the Wisconsin/Minnesota area. No sunburns and you can go year around.

How about an indoor water park. These are very popular in the Wisconsin/Minnesota area. No sunburns and you can go year around.

yes yes yes we need one!! ahh that would be great

Actually relocating to the river near downtown would be a cool idea. Moving theme parks rides are not very expensive. Buying new ones don't cost much either. The Wildcat roller coaster was move to Frontier City from Fairy Land park in KC. Amusement rides are moved all the time.

If I remember correctly, didn't a housing developer want to buy Frontier City a few years back and replace it with homes. Interesting side note - did you know that 4 roller coasters were moved to Frontier City but were never assembled.

Roller Coaster DataBase (http://www.rcdb.com/)

It is VERY expensive. The story behind The Wildcat is that it was a second choice. The park wanted to bring back the original Tornado roller coaster (from Wedgewood) from Florida. They explored several options and the costs of dismantlement, transportation and rebuilding at Frontier City was through the roof.

------------

So it was moved from OKC to Florida? I took a look at the Tornado that was at Pensacola and it is about twice the size of the Wildcat. This is probably why it cost so much more. I'm not saying that every move is cost effective but coasters and other park rides are moved all of the time.

I drive by Frontier City every day going to/from work and I noticed their light up sign the other night said "Closed for the season. Get your 2007 season pass. go to www.sixflags.com". If they were selling after this season, why would Six Flags be selling season passes?

A commercial property is only worth the amount of money it can generate. If they can't generate revenue then they can't sell it for what they think it is worth.

I drive by Frontier City every day going to/from work and I noticed their light up sign the other night said "Closed for the season. Get your 2007 season pass. go to www.sixflags.com". If they were selling after this season, why would Six Flags be selling season passes?

Will have to be honored by whoever the next owner is.

Will have to be honored by whoever the next owner is.
I seen that they were selling next years season passes online as well. How will the next owner honor them if they turn it into say a golf course? Also I dont think that Excalibur is anything but scrap metal now....If they put that thing up it would be a joke compared to rollercoasters of nowadays.

It makes no sense that they would be selling double park Season Passes for next year unless
A: they have decided not to sell at this point or
B: a sale of both parks has gone through and they both will remain parks for at least another year.

They could also refund the money. If they know they are not going to open the park they can take the money, put it in 3 and 6 month CD's and then when the park doesn't open they simply give the money back and keep the 5% interest.

They could also refund the money. If they know they are not going to open the park they can take the money, put it in 3 and 6 month CD's and then when the park doesn't open they simply give the money back and keep the 5% interest.

Now that sounds like something Six Flags corporate would pull.:congrats:

Why would they sell the passes if they know they are going to have to go to the trouble to refund EVERY person that bought one? They even have a new billboard up now advertising the passes for next year. Something's fishy...

I don't think either park will be torn down. Frontier City makes more money than you'd think. The park has always turned a profit.

Yes, that's what I've been saying.

That's why I'm not sure why Six Flags has refused to make Frontier City one of its brand parks. And I'm not sure why they're selling it. They make way more profit off of it than they put back into the park.

Premier Parks obviously had the money to buy the entire Six Flags chain and then some. Wonder where they got that money from. Let's see....they only owned White Water Bay and Frontier City when they made those acquisitions.

Actually they also owned Elitch Gardens in Denver and Darien Lake in Buffalo and several other smaller parks, most of which became Six Flags parks after the buyout, but you are right, they obviously didn't get where they are/were without Frontier City and White Water doing well.

I've always been curious as to how well theme parks are doing overall in other cities of comparable size to OKC for the past couple of years in comparison to PP's ownership of the two parks. Does anyone know where to find such figures?

Apparently Bell's in Tulsa is moving Jenks. I saw this earlier today but can't find it now. I guess an entire park can move.

Frontier City should move to the Oklahoma River.

Truth is that it's probably not just about making a profit, it's about making *enough* profit. If FC is a drag on the broader profit picture (eg across all parks they're making 7%, but FC only makes 2% - conjectural numbers only), *poof*.

-SoonerDave

Well, just remember, Premier Parks had to get all of that money from somewhere.

Permier Parks sold $700 million in bonds, $200 million in Premier Parks stock, assumed $890 million in Six Flags debt, and paid $65 million cash. Total purchase price $1.86 billion.

Premier Parks sells bonds to finance Six Flags deal Journal Record, The (Oklahoma City) - Find Articles (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4182/is_19980330/ai_n10115976)

Frontier City, White Water Bay sold
By Paul Monies
The Oklahoman

A Florida-based real estate investment trust will buy Oklahoma City amusement parks Frontier City and White Water Bay from Six Flags Inc. as part of a seven park, $312 million deal, the companies said Thursday.

Six Flags shares rose more than 7 percent on the news in early trading on the New York Stock Exchange. The stock closed at $5.43 a share Wednesday.

The company put several parks on the market last year in an effort to cut its $2.2 billion in debt. After a lengthy sale process, Six Flags said it will sell its Oklahoma City parks and five others to PARC 7F-Operations Corp. of Jacksonville, Fla. The $312 million deal consists of $275 million in cash and a $37 million receivable note.

Speculation had centered on the sale of one of Six Flags' biggest parks, Magic Mountain in Valencia, Calif., but that park was not part of the transaction.

"We're pleased with the sale price for this portfolio of parks, particularly since we were able to retain the Magic Mountain parks,” Mark Shapiro, Six Flags president and chief executive officer, said in a statement. "This transaction confirms the value inherent in our major market branded parks.”

As well as Frontier City and White Water Bay, the parks sold are: Six Flags Darien Lake in Buffalo, N.Y.; Six Flags Elitch Gardens in Denver; SplashTown in Houston; Waterworld USA in Concord, Calif.; and Wild Waves and Enchanted Village in Seattle.

Six Flags said the seven parks contributed $30 million to the company's operations in 2006, with total attendance of 3.6 million.

As part of the deal, PARC will sell the parks to Florida real-estate investment trust CNL Income Properties Inc., which will turn around and lease the parks back to PARC.

The transaction is expected to close in March.

Here's what I could find on CNL Income Properties:



CNL Income Properties, Inc. is an unlisted real estate investment trust (REIT) that intends to acquire properties and lease them on a long-term, triple-net basis. CNL Income Properties intends to invest in properties that we believe have the potential to generate long-term revenue based upon certain demographic data, associated concentrations of wealth and other underwriting criteria and models that we have developed.

The property sectors in which we initially are most likely to invest include the following (in no order of priority): dealerships, campgrounds and manufactured housing, mobile home or recreational vehicle parks, health clubs, parking lots, bowling alleys, golf courses, ski resorts, marinas, manufacturer's outlet centers, and vacation ownership resorts. CNL Income Properties is not restricted to the previous list and may acquire or invest in other property sectors. The portfolio is intended to provide investors with quarterly cash distributions and a hedge against inflation, while offering potential capital appreciation.*


Not sure quite what, if anything, to think about it yet. Don't know if amusement parks fit in with long-term investment strategies...


CNL Income Properties, Inc. (http://www.cnl.com/incomeprop/)

-SoonerDave

I wasn't sure either what the long term plans might be... if they don't generate enough positive cash flow we might lose our parks still .. well, I guess we'll have to wait and see?

At least they have lots of money behind them.

Whether they spend it or not will have everything to do with attendance and revenues, and from the sounds of things both parks need some substantial improvements.

Doesn't sound like they know anything about operating amusement parks.

The tread title is now completely incorrect.

Just wanted to give you the Jacksonville insite. There are several luxury subdivsion and apartments around Jacksonville with the work Parc in the name. They were all built by a company called the PARC Group. The same PARC Group that bought the amusement parks. They are not a theme park operator, they are a real-estate developer. They also have built several large shopping centers around Jax.

Many years ago an idea was floated to replace Frontier City with luxury homes. It looks like that might be run up the flag pole again in the near future. Don't count on Frontier City staying around for long.

Kerry, that was my gut reaction to this move as well. The parks will go away. Personally I feel the ideal situation is that this developer acquire property downtown for a new combined park and then re-develop the existing properties. There is no sense for them to be on opposite sides of town and would mean a lot to redevelopment along the river...possibly on the south side.

The PARC Group doesn't own any amusement parks and as far as I know, except for the ones just purchased, they have never operated them. There are not any amuesment parks in JAX and one very small water park. I would have to see where the other parks are located but I give both parks one final season and then you will see the rides being sold off.

Amusement parks need new rides to keep crowds coming back and you know this group will not be introducing new rides to their parks. Attendance will only get worse and then they will close.

I would love to see a large amusement park near downtown. In Wisconsin and Minnesota there are several very large in-door water parks. I would love for something like that to come to OKC. Could you imagine going down a water slide tomorrow in OKC?

The company plans to operate the existing parks as-is.

Family focus pledged for city parks
Owners will offer renewed emphasis

By Paul Monies
Business Writer

The new owners and operators of Frontier City and White Water Bay plan to bring back a regional focus and family-friendly rides when they take over later this year.

Six Flags Inc. said Thursday it will sell its two Oklahoma City parks and five others in a deal valued at $312 million to PARC 7F-Operations Corp. of Jacksonville, Fla. The transaction consists of $275 million in cash and a debt note of $37 million.

The parks will remain operational for the 2007 season as planned, said Richard Jett, vice president for PARC Management. It's too early to say what new rides or upgrades might be planned for the future, he said.

"We're very excited about the transaction,” Jett said. "We're looking forward to operating the parks, focusing on family values and meeting the needs of the local community.”

As part of the deal, PARC will sell the seven parks to Florida real estate investment trust CNL Income Properties Inc., which will turn around and lease the parks back to PARC for operation under an initial 20-year lease.

CNL Income Properties owns a portfolio of "lifestyle” properties such as golf courses, ski resorts, amusement parks and retail centers across the country. Spokeswoman Carolyn Gosselin said the trust has confidence in the management team that PARC has assembled.

"They're going to be terrific managers of those parks,” Gosselin said. "They have about 40 years of experience in the regional park management business. We believe we are going to take those parks and return them to their former glory, which is focused on the regional economy and serving the people of that region.”

PARC's executive team includes former managers of the Wet 'n Wild and Raging Waters chains of water parks. The company's chairman is Michael Jenkins, one of the original Six Flags executives at Six Flags Over Texas.

Uncertainty over the future of the Oklahoma City parks contributed to lower attendance in 2006. As Six Flags grew in the late 1990s to a global chain of more than 30 parks, some locals felt the company ignored the smaller parks in its portfolio.

"We want to make sure the product mix appeals to the local economy, and that's probably something that has been neglected over the last few years in those parks,” said Curt Caffey, director of investment for CNL Income Properties.

Six Flags put nine parks on the market last year in an effort to cut its $2.2 billion debt load. Speculation centered on the real estate value of the parks for development in housing or retail, but executives quashed that in December by saying the parks would be sold as ongoing operations. The company's Magic Mountain theme park and Hurricane Harbor water park in suburban Los Angeles are not part of the $312 million deal.

"We're pleased with the sale price for this portfolio of parks, particularly since we were able to retain the Magic Mountain parks,” Mark Shapiro, Six Flags president and chief executive officer, said in a statement. "This transaction confirms the value inherent in our major-market branded parks.”

As well as Frontier City and White Water Bay, the parks sold are Six Flags Darien Lake in Buffalo, N.Y.; Six Flags Elitch Gardens in Denver; SplashTown in Houston; Waterworld USA in Concord, Calif.; and Wild Waves and Enchanted Village in Seattle.

Six Flags shares rose more than 8 percent in heavy trading on the New York Stock Exchange. They closed at $5.90, up 47 cents.

Frontier City, White Water sold: Florida company buys seven properties from Six Flags
by Jerry Shottenkirk
The Journal Record

1/12/2007 OKLAHOMA CITY – Six Flags Inc. on Thursday said it will sell Frontier City and White Water Bay as part of a seven-park package worth $312 million.

PARC 7F Operations Corp., of Jacksonville, Fla., agreed to buy the properties. Officials there said the parks will in turn be sold to CNL Income Properties, which will lease them back to PARC.

Six Flags also is selling Six Flags Darien Lake in Buffalo, N.Y.; Six Flags Elitch Gardens in Denver; SplashTown in Houston; Waterworld USA in Concord, Calif.; and the combined Wild Waves and Enchanted Village in Seattle. Individual price tags were not revealed.

“We’re pleased with the sale price for this portfolio of parks, particularly since we were able to retain the Magic Mountain parks (in California),” said Mark Shapiro, Six Flags president and chief executive officer. “This transaction confirms the value inherent in our major market branded parks.”

Six Flags will receive $275 million cash and a note for $37 million in the transaction, which is expected to close in March. The company announced last year its plan to cut debt and sell non-core assets.

“We are not breaking out any of the prices in the portfolio,” said Carolyn Gosselin, spokeswoman for CNL Income Properties.

Gosselin said CNL is excited to have Frontier City and White Water Bay as part of its lineup.

“We are a real estate investment trust from Orlando (Fla.), and we have four primary areas of interest: attractions, marina, golf and recreation,” Gosselin said. “(Frontier City and White Water Bay) add a lot to our recreation segment. We own the real estate and have agreed to have PARC manage them. PARC has 40 years of management experience and we chose them because they have the experience and pedigree to return these parks to their original glory.”

The New York Stock Exchange had a positive reaction to the Six Flags move as shares closed at $5.90, up 47 cents, or 8.66 percent, over the previous day.

“It was very well received on the market and the volume reached 6.4 million shares, which is a lot of shares,” said Bob Rader of Capital West Securities.

Six Flags had reported long-term debt of $2.1 billion. Attendance last year at the parks dropped 14 percent from 2005. The seven parks sold had a total attendance of 3.6 million last year and had $30 million in gross earnings. Six Flags will continue to own and operate 23 parks.

Oklahoma City became the headquarters when Premier Parks bought Six Flags properties for $1.9 billion in 1997. Shapiro replaced CEO Kieran Burke in 2005 after a proxy fight led by Washington Redskins owner and investor Daniel Snyder, and the headquarters were moved to New York.

Rader said it appears Six Flags is trying to turn a corner.

“When a company is $2 billion-plus in debt, the debt service alone costs a lot,” Rader said. “Raising the cash they did will enable them to reduce some of that debt, and they did it by selling some of the parks that haven’t been as profitable as some of the others. So it’s probably a good thing for them.”

Financial problems for theme parks are common, he said.

“With a roller coaster, it costs as much with one person on it as it does when it’s full,” Rader said. “Theme parks have to find ways to get their attendance up. These are labor-intensive parks and are very expensive to operate. And it’s expensive to go to one. People have only so much disposable income, and these places are not a priority for a lot of people.”

Sounds like they will continue to operate as theme parks. Keep in mind that Tierco Properties was just a real estate investment firm when it bought Frontier City, and it went on to become Premier Parks and eventually Six Flags.

Yeah, I seriously doubt they will close or relocate the park. If anything I see them being renovated and possibly adding new rides, etc. Too much of a hassle and uproar if they were to close them and sell off all the rides for housing development, etc.

And I don't think they would just say this because they want to make money for one last season. Unlike the situation with the Hornets (or the Sonics for Seattle), knowing that an amusement park would close in a year, people would be more likely to go one last time, not stay away. So if they planned to close, I don't see any reason why they would hide that fact.

Sounds like they will continue to operate as theme parks. Keep in mind that Tierco Properties was just a real estate investment firm when it bought Frontier City, and it went on to become Premier Parks and eventually Six Flags.

And it worked out well for them. They went into debt - then more debt - and finally they all lost their jobs. Good plan. We will see if they add any new rides.

And it worked out well for them. They went into debt - then more debt - and finally they all lost their jobs. Good plan. We will see if they add any new rides.

Kerry, Actually when Tierco ran Frontier City it was a great little park. That was when it was renovated, new rides, landscaping, etc. The leadership changed just prior to the acquisition of Six Flags. In that sense, you are right, it became too big and it was a huge mistake. I think JBrown's point was that Tierco did a great job with Frontier City and they had no prior experience in theme parks and maybe, just maybe, we'll see the same thing again.

-----------------

Not saying PARC won't keep it - I just wouldn't count on it. I think once they have time to see all of the financial detail they will see that they can make a lot more money turning Frontier City into a shopping center or subdivision than they can keeping it as-is. Six Flags sold it because it was one of their lowest performing parks.

I am starting to wonder if the parks will remain in business. Frontier City has a fighting chance but, White Water on the other hand could be sold to commercial developers.

The land White Water sets on could make a nice location for more furniture stores, a car or heavy truck dealership or a hotel. Then again this transaction may free up funding for upgrades, expansion and/or relocation of the parks.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Orlando-based CNL Income Properties buys 7 former 6 Flags parks
The Associated Press
Article Launched: 04/09/2007 12:13:49 PM PDT


ORLANDO, Fla.- A Florida-based real estate investment trust said Monday it bought seven former Six Flags Inc. properties for $312 million.


CNL Income Properties Inc. acquired the theme parks from PARC 7F Operations Corp. for $290 million in cash and a note receivable for $22 million. CNL will lease the properties to PARC, which will operate the parks under long-term, triple-net lease agreements, CNL said in a news release. PARC acquired the properties from Six Flags in a related $312 million stock purchase immediately prior to the sale of the properties to Orlando-based CNL, the release said.

PARC managers said they want the parks to focus more on regional markets as well as guest safety and satisfaction.

"As we complete the transaction, we are looking forward to the opportunity to refocus these parks on regional economies," said Randal H. Drew, president and CEO of PARC Management.
The parks acquired in the transaction are: Darien Lake in Buffalo, N.Y.; Elitch Gardens in Denver; Frontier City & White Water Bay in Oklahoma City; Splashtown in Houston; Waterworld in Concord, Calif.; and Wild Waves & Enchanted Village in Seattle.

Wow. That's actually big news. The news release at least makes it sound like they will be around awhile.

--------------