I'm sure if this fell back into the lender's hands that the OKC Economic Development Trust would partner with them to find an appropriate new owner, while at the same time helping to marshal resources for redevelopment.

The woman that led the Skirvin project for the city now runs the Economic Development Trust.

If this property once again goes into limbo -- for about the fifth time in the last 20 years -- I bet they'll seize the opportunity to help make something happen here that will work in the long term.

Her name is Cathy O'Connor. Should have looked that up before I called her "the woman".

Hopefully she gets the chance to work similar magic with the FNC.

I'm 100% with sid...and been saying it for years. I honestly feel the city is this building's only hope for salvation.

The current owners have until May 27th to come up with the $12 million.

If their m.o. holds -- not just for this property but virtually every other one they have owned -- they will file some other motion and this still won't be resolved by that date.

I hope that's not the case but I'm prepared for that to happen.

The current owners have until May 27th to come up with the $12 million.

If their m.o. holds -- not just for this property but virtually every other one they have owned -- they will file some other motion and this still won't be resolved by that date.

I hope that's not the case but I'm prepared for that to happen.

Then they have come to the right city. They should get in touch with OCURA. That will buy them at least 3 years.

I predict we will still see Yash leave the scene by end of this year.

The current owners are running it into the ground. Rents have doubled or tripled for a lot of tenants. There are serious problems with the building being accessible, e.g., the bathrooms are between the floors and the water pressure has issues. There's also a big problem with a lack of a parking garage. To rehabilitate that property, parking is going to have to be meaningfully addressed.

That said, I'd love to office someplace like that if the price was right. Unfortunately, it isn't.

They may need to switch to unisex bathrooms. The problem is that floorplates are pretty small in the tower (albeit, larger than City Place), which is why the bathrooms have to alternate. So either you keep this major deficiency, dedicate a larger portion of your already-small floorplates to basic amenities like bathrooms, or you switch to unisex.

This building has a lot more problems than just that. A lot of these problems start and begin with the current owner, although some have been passed on from owner to owner. There is absolutely no way around the fact that FNC has had a brutal few decades lately, but I think it's important for anyone delving into all of its problems to also acknowledge that there's a general consensus that we have to save this building.

Why not convert some existing floors into parking, like 3-10 and put in a car elevator. You have nothing but extra space in the building and a couple of car elevators have to be far cheaper than a new garage.

Why not convert some existing floors into parking, like 3-10 and put in a car elevator. You have nothing but extra space in the building and a couple of car elevators have to be far cheaper than a new garage.

You may be more correct than you think. I was at a luncheon 2 weeks ago with several commercial real estate speakers. They mentioned the posibility of tearing out the section in the middle of the block and building a parling garage that would serve the structures on both ends.

Yes, that option has been evaluated in the past.

If someone can buy the property for a good price out of foreclosure, perhaps something like that would finally be financially feasible.

There are some strong recommendations emerging on this thread. Perhaps the new owners would consider a wiki project on reuse of the building. I know of some really successful wiki projects.

An update by Steve.

http://newsok.com/lender-endorses-end-of-first-national-bankruptcy-contractor-files-objection/article/3669265?custom_click=pod_headline_financial-news

I'm really not sure if this is good or bad news.

http://newsok.com/first-national-center-gets-nod-to-end-bankruptcy/article/3671856

I think it depends on whether one favors inertia or one favors forward movement. This seems to favor inertia.

They say they have arranged for the $12 million if the bankruptcy is lifted.

We'll see on May 27th.

They say they have arranged for the $12 million if the bankruptcy is lifted.

We'll see on May 27th.

Is Washington Mutual back in business?

The last news on this property that the present owners had to come up with $12 million by May 27th, otherwise it would go into the hands of a receiver.

May 27th is this Sunday and there has been no news as of yet.


I find it very hard to believe anyone would lend this group that kind of money in general, let alone for a property that probably isn't worth anything near that.

I just hope this doesn't get delayed yet again, and there is some sort of resolution this week.

The last news on this property that the present owners had to come up with $12 million by May 27th, otherwise it would go into the hands of a receiver.

May 27th is this Sunday and there has been no news as of yet.


I find it very hard to believe anyone would lend this group that kind of money in general, let alone for a property that probably isn't worth anything near that.

I just hope this doesn't get delayed yet again, and there is some sort of resolution this week.

http://journalrecord.com/2012/05/24/judge-dismisses-first-national-center%E2%80%99s-chapter-11-case-real-estate/

The Chapter 11 case has been dismissed, but their lender has agreed to give them another month to find somebody willing to lend them the cash. Will they come up with the money? Who knows.

Yet ANOTHER extension. This saga is wearing me out.

And of course, the current owners lied when they said they already had the new loan lined up, if they just released them from bankruptcy.


I suppose Capmark would rather have $12 million than the property back but I'm sure even they aren't optimistic; more like give then another month and hope.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure no lender would want to take possession of FNC. Sad but true. I really doubt if the building is worth $12 million. Probably in the $6 to $9 million range, I've been told by several knowledgeable folks; and if that's the case, who is going to lend more than the market value to a shaky borrower with a terrible reputation? Well, it just takes one foolish lender. As much as I love the old building, I'm beginning to admit it might be beyond saving, though I haven't totally given up hope yet.

Best hope is for Milbank to be removed from the picture, the center goes into receivership and the bank auctions it off at a far more reasonable price; certainly well below $10 million.

The bank knows they would never get close to the $12 Milbank is hoping to scrounge up, so they are willing to hold out hope. Otherwise, they are sure to lose millions.


But it would be best for OKC to get this property into a developers hands who bought it right. I wonder if Rick Dowell might be interested.

And maybe the City can get involved by allocating parking spaces for the soon-to-be expanded Century Center garage.

Pete, All good points. Of course, the purchase price is just the beginning. Whoever gets it will have to spend maybe $15 to $25 million to bring the building back. At least that range is what I've heard. What do you think of that range? Reasonable?

The good news is that Milbank already abated all or at least most the asbestos and did some other mechanical improvements. Also, Devon put a bunch of money into the space they have been occupying but are now in the process of vacating.

Remember that the tower itself is not even half the square footage in this complex and the rest of it was built much later, with larger floorplates and without the restrooms-between-the-floor configuration.

Here's what I think would be a workable solution and best use of the property:


Demolish part of the newer section and replace with multi-story parking structure; keep all the retail at ground level. -or- Work with the City to get plenty of dedicated parking in the Century Center garage.
Convert the tower into a hotel (Grand Banking Hall as a lobby) with possible residential above that.
Remodel the remaining newer sections into nicer office space.


The conversion of the Colcord to a hotel and the relative success of the City Place condos provide a good roadmap to success, but dedicated parking is a vital component. If new owners can get that squared away -- and the city is probably very willing to help at this point -- then that, along with a reasonable purchase price and a resurgence of downtown could make FNC a very attractive investment opportunity.

Makes sense to me. Now let's go find some real estate people with big bucks and convince them.

So how many hotel room would this building hold? New CCH? Is this a possibility?

Yet ANOTHER extension. This saga is wearing me out.

And of course, the current owners lied when they said they already had the new loan lined up, if they just released them from bankruptcy.


I suppose Capmark would rather have $12 million than the property back but I'm sure even they aren't optimistic; more like give then another month and hope.

Perhaps you know something that was not reported in the Oklahoman. The Oklahoman (in the article linked earlier in this thread) reported that they said they would not be able to line up a line with the property in bankruptcy. It did NOT report that they said they had a loan lined up.

The good news is that Milbank already abated all or at least most the asbestos and did some other mechanical improvements. Also, Devon put a bunch of money into the space they have been occupying but are now in the process of vacating.

Remember that the tower itself is not even half the square footage in this complex and the rest of it was built much later, with larger floorplates and without the restrooms-between-the-floor configuration.

Here's what I think would be a workable solution and best use of the property:


Demolish part of the newer section and replace with multi-story parking structure; keep all the retail at ground level. -or- Work with the City to get plenty of dedicated parking in the Century Center garage.
Convert the tower into a hotel (Grand Banking Hall as a lobby) with possible residential above that.
Remodel the remaining newer sections into nicer office space.


The conversion of the Colcord to a hotel and the relative success of the City Place condos provide a good roadmap to success, but dedicated parking is a vital component. If new owners can get that squared away -- and the city is probably very willing to help at this point -- then that, along with a reasonable purchase price and a resurgence of downtown could make FNC a very attractive investment opportunity.

I like the hotel idea. That could be an amazing hotel.

Perhaps you know something that was not reported in the Oklahoman. The Oklahoman (in the article linked earlier in this thread) reported that they said they would not be able to line up a line with the property in bankruptcy. It did NOT report that they said they had a loan lined up.

"Attorneys for Yashouafar also told Jackson he has obtained a pre-approval for the take-out financing pending the approval to end the bankruptcy."

Read more: http://newsok.com/first-national-center-gets-nod-to-end-bankruptcy/article/3671856#ixzz1vyr2BrUT

Duplicate post. sorry.

"Attorneys for Yashouafar also told Jackson he has obtained a pre-approval for the take-out financing pending the approval to end the bankruptcy."

Read more: http://newsok.com/first-national-center-gets-nod-to-end-bankruptcy/article/3671856#ixzz1vyr2BrUT

"Pre-approval" is almost meaningless in the lending world. If anyone put any significant weight on that statement, they deserve what they got.

"Pre-approval" is almost meaningless in the lending world. If anyone put any significant weight on that statement, they deserve what they got.

You might want to try: "Sorry for being a bit rude before. I was mistaken... Thanks for politely providing the information and clearing that up."

Pre-approval is not meaningless, especially if it is specifically contingent on a condition (such as dismissal of a Chapter 11), as Yashouafar said this pre-approval was (according to the story quoted). The condition (dismissal of the Chapter 11) was satisfied, and yet the loan approval was not forthcoming. Yashouafar misled the court and Capmark, the lender. The only reason this doesn't matter much is because Capmark doesn't really want the property, so it's willing to give Milbank some more time.

I got a letter in the mail from one of our local car dealerships saying I had been pre-approved for a new car loan. In the fine print were the conditions for the pre-approval; 20% down, 6 months of previous employment, good credit, a quality trade-in with less than 60,000 miles, and no bankruptcy. The moral of the story is - pre-approval doesn't mean anything because the second I don't meet one of the qualifications the 'pre-approval' is off.

I'm rooting for Chapter 11 as much as anyone else here, the sooner Yash leaves the picture, the better for the FNC. That said, pre-approval is not worthless..it unfortunately answers one of the biggest questions that linger over Yash's dealings here. If he wasn't to offer up pre-approval, what evidence would he offer?

If it were my way, this dude would have the book thrown at him and the system would revert to guilty until proven innocent, but unfortunately these dealings have to go through that pesky legal system we have..

If 'pre-approval' meant he already had been approved then where is the money?

An unsolicited "pre-approval" from a car dealership is quite a different thing from a multi-million dollar commercial loan transaction negotiated by bankers and lawyers The car loan is a marketing gimmick. A negotiated pre-approval by a mortgagee subject to satisfaction of a specific condition is a more sophisticated, and binding, transaction. And as to where the money is: I think you'd come up with the answer to your own question if you'd think about it -- that the loan has not come about means Milbank never had the pre-approval in the first place, which was Pete's point above. Just out of curiosity -- how many commercial loan transactions have you been involved with, JTF?

I was only making the point that 'pre-approval' doesn't mean anything. If it did, he would have the money.

You can get a pre-approved commercial loan just by filling out this form - even if you have bad credit. It doesn't mean you are going to be happy about the downpayment, interest rate, or other terms they offer you AFTER you meet their qualifications for the pre-approval

http://loan-solution.com/borrowers/borrower_loan_form.html


Borrower Loan Pre-Approval Form
Need a commercial loan and have bad credit?
Please take a moment to fill out our pre-approval form so that we can assist you.

Kerry, I can assure you that the bankruptcy court will not care how happy Yash is with the terms of his credit lines.

I propose that this one we just sit out..there is no public recourse mechanism, arguing up a storm on OKC Talk will make no difference, this is in a court of law. I understand we'll find out pretty soon, or in roughly the same amount of time to fill up 10 pages of flame wars on both sides of the issue, so perhaps everybody should save their energy here for other more interesting debates and just wait and see what happens here.

Hopefully the bank takes over the property and it winds up in the hands of a receiver with local ties - the asking price needs to drop significantly and it needs to wind up in local hands. Then the city may be able to orchestrate some public financing deal before the Skirvin mortgage expires, but that will be difficult due to that prior obligation.

Without getting deeper into the details of pre-approvals and what a pre-approval would have looked like in this particular commercial loan situation (it would not have been one of the gimmicky, sales-oriented pre-approvals that are, as you rightly point out, very common and very worthless), let me say this: I don't think Milbank had a pre-approval, a conditional approval or an approval of any kind when it approached the plaintiff and the judge seeking a dismissal of the Chapter 11. If it had, Milbank would now have the money. The plaintiff, unfortunately, probably didn't press the matter very hard because it does not want the property. It is more than willing to let Milbank delay longer. Anyway, thanks for the exchange. Now let's hope that eventually the plaintiff tires of this game and (reluctantly) takes possession of FNC. Thanks.

Then the city may be able to orchestrate some public financing deal before the Skirvin mortgage expires, but that will be difficult due to that prior obligation.

The City does have the $5 million they pledged to the AICM, although I don't know where that money came from. If Milbank lied to a federal judge I wonder what kind of penalty that would bring.

Price Edwards would handle the receivership. That has already been decided in court. From what I've seen, they do a pretty good job with the properties they handle as receivers. I think it is going to take public money to see any redevelopment happen there.

The city will need to come up with a lot more than $5 million.

I think that the idea of using the FNC as the CC hotel has gained traction. Two birds with one stone.

I think it needs to be a boutique hotel like The Magnolia hotels in Houston, Dallas and Denver are. Most "true" convention center hotels are much larger and tend to be a bit generic (in comparison). Most convention centers need more rooms than the designated hotel for large conferences anyway. People tend to stay in hotels in the area of a convention center, not just in the one attached to the conference center. I know that I have and haven't stayed in designated hotels for conferences before, sometimes due to a lack of rooms and sometimes the room cost.

I agree. Converting the FNC center to a hotel is a great idea but thinking it might be the main convention center hotel just doesn't sound feasible or likely.

Seems like a massive amount of mechanical work would be required for a hotel retrofit. This would likely be a gutting and total retrofit. Residential would take less.

Seems like a massive amount of mechanical work would be required for a hotel retrofit. This would likely be a gutting and total retrofit. Residential would take less.

Rover, since building systems are your trade, I'm curious how you came to the conclusion that conversion to residential would involve less gutting. My impression is that each individual apartment unit would need to be totally black boxed, whereas hallways and elevator lobbies on each floor could remain in tact and be nicely preserved - there is some great original Art Deco detail that exists throughout the tower. The problem though is that due to the overwhelming scope of work needing to be done for a conversion, I don't think that the FNC would qualify for the investment tax credit, although perhaps the annex would, which ironically is a lot less historic.

The Colcord was similar to FNC (a very old office building) and they didn't have too much trouble converting it to a hotel.

No matter what they do, they have to completely reconfigure the restrooms which are currently between the floors and non-ADA compliant.

I believe the Colcord was Class B however. Wasn't Doug officing in there before the renovations?

Rover, since building systems are your trade, I'm curious how you came to the conclusion that conversion to residential would involve less gutting. My impression is that each individual apartment unit would need to be totally black boxed, whereas hallways and elevator lobbies on each floor could remain in tact and be nicely preserved - there is some great original Art Deco detail that exists throughout the tower. The problem though is that due to the overwhelming scope of work needing to be done for a conversion, I don't think that the FNC would qualify for the investment tax credit, although perhaps the annex would, which ironically is a lot less historic.

I was making that observation based on mechanical systems, not on walls and other structural. Either will probably require a pretty comprehensive gutting and reconfiguration of wall systems.

Is FNC on a district chilled and hot water system?

You might want to try: "Sorry for being a bit rude before. I was mistaken... Thanks for politely providing the information and clearing that up."

And you might want to not be so quick to accuse and convict someone of lying when there is little evidence of such. Failure to close on a large loan within 30 days does not prove that the proposed borrower was lying when he said he had pre-approval pending the approval to end the bankruptcy. If they indeed lied about this, I suspect we will be hearing from the bankruptcy judge.

And you might want to not be so quick to accuse and convict someone of lying when there is little evidence of such. Failure to close on a large loan within 30 days does not prove that the proposed borrower was lying when he said he had pre-approval pending the approval to end the bankruptcy. If they indeed lied about this, I suspect we will be hearing from the bankruptcy judge.

Even if they have a loan lined up for after bankruptcy, that is putting the cart before the horse as they have to come to terms with the creditors to restructure the debt first.

I'll readily admit that bankruptcy law is not my field of expertise, but it sounds like I'm not the only person for whom this is their first tango with bankruptcy law. I will say I enjoy reading the perspective of people on here who clearly understand the nuances of what's going on, and what it means for the FNC.

I was making that observation based on mechanical systems, not on walls and other structural. Either will probably require a pretty comprehensive gutting and reconfiguration of wall systems.

Is FNC on a district chilled and hot water system?

I believe it is. So that complicates things even more. Remember, the thing was built before they were putting real AC's in anything. But a total gut of the old sections is what this thing needs anyway. It can't supply the electricy requirements of today. Most floors don't have adequate fire supression. It's very cramped feeling in the tower section (that's the fault of the tenants and how they laid out their floorplans though). They need modern windows so the place doesn't hemorage heat/air (and yes you can keep them historic while doing this). The list goes on and on. Which is why people have avoided the place like a plague. Restoration is length and expensive. Why do you think the wealthy are the ones that keep Heritage Hills as it it?

And all this is harder with lowered floor to floor heights.

It will be expensive, no doubt. They spent $15M on the Colcord for only about a quarter of the square footage.

But, new construction is at least $200 per square foot (the new Bricktown Hilton Garden Inn is going to be about $250 / sf), so if it cost them $60M to completely redo the 450,000 sf tower plus another $5M to purchase it, that's still only $144 per sf.

If they could solve the parking problem, I think the numbers will work given the current high downtown occupancy rates for hotels, office and residential.

This property is adjacent to the Main Street Garage. There is no reason for there to be a parking issue. Especially if COTPA can move commuter parking permits to an expanded parking garage at the Century Center. But then you're obviously looking at way more than 2 additional levels of parking. I don't see why with the Century Center they can't replicate the Devon parking along Hudson (with storefront retail + The Well), which is very well-done if you ask me.

The Century Center could even become our first large mixed-use tower with two levels of retail and 4-5 levels of parking on top of that (a la Devon) and then figure out what on top..hotel, residential, office, entertainment..demand is pretty high for all of it.

I think you have to take a bigger picture perspective and that has to include the FNC and Century Center projects being coordinated, because the parking has to be figured out. Also keep in mind that these blocks will be surrounded by the streetcar on all sides.

Main Street is privately owned; not COTPA-owned. That was probably the biggest hit to the viability of this building; the Main Street garage used to be a part of the FNB complex and it was split off by previous owners when they donated the tower itself to Feed The Children years ago. They kept the profitable parking and shrugged off the marginal office for a big tax break.

The other main problem with First National's viability is that on most floors in the tower the restrooms are between floors on the landings of the stairwells. ADA nightmare.

Side note: I have fantasized for years about starting a cool nightclub in the basement bank vault area.

Here is some cafe 7 progress

http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa408/wschnitt/IMG_0114.jpg
http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa408/wschnitt/IMG_0115.jpg