The vapor store is in the very narrow spot where the OK Tourism shop was until about a year ago.

I'm not sure there will be a smoothie shop, just that I saw a sign. It's in the old department store spot that's been empty for the three years I've lived here. It was used as a temporary space by an artist for a while, maybe last summer?

What are the chances of seeing this splendid building as a luxury hotel with residential on the upper floors? I understand the parking problems and limited room for road re-construction to suit a hotel, but it just begs for a purpose it deserves. Downtown Oklahoma City's jewel of a building to me. To have it in local hands again will be a good start to it becoming great once again.

What are the chances of seeing this splendid building as a luxury hotel with residential on the upper floors? I understand the parking problems and limited room for road re-construction to suit a hotel, but it just begs for a purpose it deserves.

Of the people interested in the property, it seems they all believe the tower would be best suited for a hotel and/or residential and the remainder of the complex would be some combination of parking structure and office.

The problem is the current owners want way too much for any ambitious plans to work. However, their income stream has drastically been reduced and they can't continue to carry it forever.

Hopefully, something will happen here soon. I know there are people taking a run at it.

I almost want the city to buy it and do it on its own. We keep having people buy the place and either hold it or make promises they can't keep. Like zookeeper, I've always felt like it was the jewel of downtown. It's a shame it's been allowed to fall into such disrepair. But I always thought it a shame that the additions were so mismatched as well...bleh.

We've talked this one till it's dead, but I agree that as a commercial property, the tower just isn't feasible any longer in the way that it's done. We need a gutting of the floors no matter what goes in. Bring the infrastructure up to current needs (especially electrical and HVAC).

The vapor store is in the very narrow spot where the OK Tourism shop was until about a year ago.

I'm not sure there will be a smoothie shop, just that I saw a sign. It's in the old department store spot that's been empty for the three years I've lived here. It was used as a temporary space by an artist for a while, maybe last summer?

Is there much of a market in the CBD for a vape store? I mean this isn't the infamous South Robinson lol.

I'm sure any lease that is being signed at this point is very short term or even month-to-month.

Nothing would make me happier than for this complex to be purchased by a responsible local owner.

8385

Oh, you can tell it's short term. Vapin Nuts. It's just sad, and I hate walking past it.

And there is no smoothie shop. The sign was for LT's Deli, letting everyone walking down Park know that they had "gourmet smoothies." Whatever those are...

Another nice move by wonderful owners.

A this point I think they'd accept a lease from a crack dealer if they thought it would bring in some rent.

There was an article in the Journal Record today that said the current owners purposely have not set an asking price and have set a July 17th deadline for bids.

Hopefully, we'll learn more then and it will be good news.

I think there is a lot of jockeying going on amongst multiple interested potential players, so it will be interesting to see who, if anyone, actually lands FNC from the current owner.

In that JR article, the broker handling the listing mentioned there were several interested parties from out of state.

Will be interesting to see how this all shakes out and if any one can offer enough to satisfy the current owners who seem to be generally unreasonable in their expectations.

In that JR article, the broker handling the listing mentioned there were several interested parties from out of state.

Will be interesting to see how this all shakes out and if any one can offer enough to satisfy the current owners who seem to be generally unreasonable in their expectations.

They seem to have a hard time coming to terms with what you were willing to pay for a property has no bearing on it's market price

At only 26% occupancy (and dropping) I hope the owners are in a place where they have to take the best offer.

Here are the plans for the little six-table patio along Park Avenue for Cafe 7:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/cafe7.jpg

With P180 creeping near, I wonder how bad it'll affect Cafe 7, or any other place in that building, for that matter...

With P180 creeping near, I wonder how bad it'll affect Cafe 7, or any other place in that building, for that matter...

I think the P180 construction to the west of this is already done. I know the area north of this is under construction but everyone coming from the south should be good.

park avenue is not done at all, and it's scheduled to be done after all the Robinson stuff is done... it's going to be a mess...

Here are the plans for the little six-table patio along Park Avenue for Cafe 7:

...

Told the wife about this as she goes there often, she basically said "so, nobody would want to eat outside anyway", and I kinda agree with her - high heat, high wind, really not that appealing to eat outside in OKC for most of the year.

Told the wife about this as she goes there often, she basically said "so, nobody would want to eat outside anyway", and I kinda agree with her - high heat, high wind, really not that appealing to eat outside in OKC for most of the year.

I eat on the patio at every restaurant that has a patio...

I eat on the patio at every restaurant that has a patio...

Seeing the view from S&B's patio on May north of Memorial, and in 30 MPH wind in 95 degree weather, why? Seriously, you do even in crappy weather where everything needs to be nailed down to the table and you're wiping sweat off every 5 minutes, and having really nothing to look at with some patios? I like the heat, but I'm not that much of a masochist...

I sit outside at Louie's all the time. You know we have a lot of months where it's not 95 degrees all the time.

Seeing the view from S&B's patio on May north of Memorial, and in 30 MPH wind in 95 degree weather, why? Seriously, you do even in crappy weather where everything needs to be nailed down to the table and you're wiping sweat off every 5 minutes, and having really nothing to look at with some patios? I like the heat, but I'm not that much of a masochist...
What a ray of sunshine you are. Plenty of people really like to eat outside when possible. Cafe 7 adding six outdoor tables gives people this option, and I'm sure they will be used quite frequently.

What a ray of sunshine you are. Plenty of people really like to eat outside when possible. Cafe 7 adding six outdoor tables gives people this option, and I'm sure they will be used quite frequently.

I totally agree. I eat outside every time I have that option unless the weather is just miserable.

Yep, if anything I predict 6 tables aren't enough.

Yep, if anything I predict 6 tables aren't enough.

That's true. But it really gives it that European "happening" place feel when the tables are scarce and coveted. It allows the outside to be intimate. Great place.

I dont personally want to eat outside, but there are plenty of people that do in all kinds of weather. You can do a lot to make an area like that accommodating too. Throw an awning on there with some fans and then a clear plastic wall on one end to block the wind tunnel, and the place really can be nice. I can't say i'd really want to sit there uncovered, but hey, someone people are into that.

Have any of you eaten at Cafe 7 on a weekday lunch hour? Sometimes there is no seats inside. Outside seating would only help the issue and it would be used.

Have any of you eaten at Cafe 7 on a weekday lunch hour? Sometimes there is no seats inside. Outside seating would only help the issue and it would be used.
Agreed. My concern is this location will be very tight for foot traffic. Other than that, I think it's a great idea.

What a ray of sunshine you are. Plenty of people really like to eat outside when possible. Cafe 7 adding six outdoor tables gives people this option, and I'm sure they will be used quite frequently.

Wasn't being a downer on Cafe 7, I hope it works for them. If the weather is decent, I'll consider eating outside "when possible", but *my* "decent" may not match other folks' definition of "decent", just seems like that whenever we eat out, it's just not quite "decent" enough to eat outside (and other folks on the thread feel the same way, so I'm not an outlier here :D). We only get to eat out once a week, usually on Saturday around lunch, so we like it to be pleasurable and just don't wanna mess with the outside stuff.

Oh, and my wife usually gets her food to go or eats later since she starts work after noon, so finding a table isn't a problem for her, usually.

Seeing the view from S&B's patio on May north of Memorial, and in 30 MPH wind in 95 degree weather, why? Seriously, you do even in crappy weather where everything needs to be nailed down to the table and you're wiping sweat off every 5 minutes, and having really nothing to look at with some patios? I like the heat, but I'm not that much of a masochist...

It's funny how OKC is the only city in the world where it is hot, windy, and humid. Not a single other city on the planet has to contend with the elements. Amazing. [/sarc]

I sit outside every chance I get. The only down side is that so do many smokers. I actually wish they would make the outside tables 'no smoking' as well.

Can we please get Cafe 7 open evenings? I don't work downtown so it's only on rare occasions I even get to eat there, but I love it. If they were open evenings and weekends I would definitely eat there very often. The menu is varied enough that I could eat there multiple times a week. And, incidentally, make use of the tables outside as it cools off in the shadows with the sun behind the buildings...

^

I would think that finishing P180 along with implementing ideas from the newly-commissioned Park Avenue Retail Study will go a long way towards Cafe 7 considering extending their hours.

As it is, neighboring Coolgreens chose to completely close until the dust settles.

^

I would think that finishing P180 along with implementing ideas from the newly-commissioned Park Avenue Retail Study will go a long way towards Cafe 7 considering extending their hours.

As it is, neighboring Coolgreens chose to completely close until the dust settles.

Dang you, Pete! Everytime I see your name as the latest poster in this thread, I'm expecting to learn you have bombshell news. And it's not just this thread!
You've spoiled many of us. :)

Dang you, Pete! Everytime I see your name as the latest poster in this thread, I'm expecting to learn you have bombshell news. And it's not just this thread!
You've spoiled many of us. :)

The owner's deadline for bid submission is July 17th, so we may know something very soon.

And from what I know, I think it is going to be good news.

My hope is this. It gets converted into housing. This will be OKC's first real test for high-rise residential. If it's successful, which is probably certainly will be, then that will open the door for some new residential tower construction down the line.

I live in the tallest residential tower in OKC that was opened in 1967... not exactly sure what "first real test for high-rise residential" means... it may not be the ideal, but it's always full. That should mean SOMEthing...

OKC can and will support a large high-rise residential tower. It is matter of time now.

City Place, Founders Tower, Lakeshore Tower, The Classen...

All tall structures with residential units.

My hope is this. It gets converted into housing. This will be OKC's first real test for high-rise residential. If it's successful, which is probably certainly will be, then that will open the door for some new residential tower construction down the line.

My hope is this, you move to Dallas before the end of the year. Oh and for First National, the opposite of what you want, so some class A spec space.

I thought the FNC was going to become a hotel.

Regency Tower is the tallest full residential and from what I understand it stays pretty full and has for years. I would like to see a 40 story residential downtown to start off with. I would imagine it would fill up quickly and stay full as long as the prices were fair.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/12/madupeta.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

^

Thanks!

Exciting to think how much this scene could change in the near future, with Project 180, the likely sale of FNC and the effort to develop Park Avenue into a retail corridor.

Park Harvey tower also is full residential.

OKC has plenty of options for the current market, I'd expect it to only grow and support the rumored new construction about to come online as well.

Tomorrow (Thursday, July 17th) is the deadline the owners have set for all bids on this property.

I have heard from good sources there may be as many as five separate bids. Remember, however, the owners have not set a price and it's not clear if they will accept any of the offers. There is legitimate concern that the owners are not realistic about the true value of the complex.

Any potential buyer is having to do their own due diligence as the the owners have not been providing much assistance. At this point, it seems there is great concern about including a hotel use due to the expense and the looming and likely development of a huge Convention Center hotel. Those factors along with a ton more rooms in the pipeline (another large hotel is likely to be part of the expanded Stage Center development) means that redevelopment is more likely to focus on residential, office and some retail on the ground level. It is likely all proposals will include razing part of the non-historic eastern sections to make room for essential structured parking, as even with this complex 75% empty, downtown parking garages are operating at more than 100% capacity.

One name that has emerged as a very strong potential buyer and re-developer is Alterra out of Philadelphia. Most of their work has been in Pennsylvania but they are very experienced taking historic Class B office buildings and converting to Class A apartments.

They have deep pockets and this seems to be right up their alley. And remember, the current owners had previously only focused on California and a few other markets before they bought this project. FNC obviously has strong appeal to out-of-state suitors, and that point was reinforced by the listing broker just a few weeks ago.

Here is some of Alterra's work:

Alterra Properties » Properties (http://www.alterraproperty.com/properties/)

The Arch (http://1701arch.com/) is very similar to FNC; here are some photos:



http://www.scullycompany.com/files/images/481.jpg


http://www.scullycompany.com/files/images/465.jpg


http://www.scullycompany.com/files/images/470.jpg


http://www.scullycompany.com/files/images/468.jpg


http://www.scullycompany.com/files/images/473.jpg


http://www.scullycompany.com/files/images/478.jpg

Wow. Would love to see FNC looking like that

So is it technically impossible for this to be converted to class-A office space?

So is it technically impossible for this to be converted to class-A office space?

For the tower, the floor plates are small and chopped up and don't lend themselves to modern office layouts.

The sections that were added layer to the east are more workable for office.


For these reasons, it's always been assumed the tower would be redeveloped for residential or hotel use.

Unless they can rework the floor space to be more open style like you see in newer buildings, it would be very hard to lease this out as Class A office space. That is the style most common and it would be very difficult to do so in a building this age (EDIT: Pete beat me to it).

Residential with a small office/retail component would probably be best. Especially considering very little housing has been added to the CBD outside the Carnegie Center.

Its unfortunate that this building has deteriorated to the point where the needed ROI eliminates a lot of viable options. I am still worried the current owner can still screw this up. Isn't that guy in jail BTW?

Crazy scenario: Any chance someone buys the center strictly for the purpose of demolishing the newer sections, building a parking garage there, and essentially deciding not even to mess with the old tower? That would seem to be the easiest/quickest way to generate revenue, but I don't know if the numbers could work.

^

Sales price is likely to be tens of millions, plus whatever the cost for renovation / re-development.

So no way a parking garage would generate enough revenue to cover the investment.

The value in that complex is in the tower but it's going to need a lot of work.

It's certainly doable, though. Converting historic office space to residential / hotel has already been done at the Colcord. Ambassador, Park Harvey, Montgomery, etc.

Wow. Would love to see FNC looking like thatThat would be awesome!

How long will it take to convert this?

Steve's update.

Purchase Offers Are in For First National Center | News OK (http://newsok.com/purchase-offers-are-in-for-first-national-center/article/5005268)

I would think Magnolia Hotels (http://www.magnoliahotels.com/) might be one of the hotel bids, as this is their type of property...

Steve's update.

Purchase Offers Are in For First National Center | News OK (http://newsok.com/purchase-offers-are-in-for-first-national-center/article/5005268)

This is going to be a real jewel. I can't wait to see what is in store.

^

Sales price is likely to be tens of millions, plus whatever the cost for renovation / re-development.

So no way a parking garage would generate enough revenue to cover the investment.

The value in that complex is in the tower but it's going to need a lot of work.

It's certainly doable, though. Converting historic office space to residential / hotel has already been done at the Colcord. Ambassador, Park Harvey, Montgomery, etc.

Do you think we might be approaching saturation in the boutique hotel market? And would adding that many more rooms be detrimental to a convention center hotel? We're already seeing SOME pressure put down by the other developments around. The less boutique and more lower chain-like ones going in are the ones that actually pull away from a CC hotel. Honestly, i bet we see a Marriott as the CC....think about how many places pair those two together. It's sort of their Niche. But there's a point at which places like Hampton/Holiday Inn/Fairfield/Aloft/etc. start pulling those customers away because their regular rate is lower than the Marriott CC rate and doesn't involve that much walking...not to mention would have rail/shuttle access anyway. I'm glad to see more options for different ranges of visitors these days, i'm just concerned that we might be jumping too quickly for the market. Anyone know if the levels of the area hotels have been affected or are they staying up while the downtown ones are opening? Meridian still seems to be building new ones...and they aren't just 3 floor suburban versions.

I would be partially concerned for FNC as a hotel because it would lack the ability to offer any real meeting space. Even if you aren't a CC, you still need meeting spaces for smaller groups. The tower just can't do that with the way it's plates are laid out. And if you toss the other awful additions, A - unfortunately you're tossing the part that is actually making money, and B - you're tossing the part that actually has a better floor plate. <-they're just ugly as crap. Either residential or hotel though, you're going to need the parking. People aren't going to live (or want to stay) there if they dont have somewhere to put their car, and we dont have anything to offer for them to not need a car.....yet.

I'm still going to hope it goes residential and gets gutted. But i sort of have the same fears on saturating the market. it's a good size space and would affect whatever market it touches. And with large projects like Park Harvey opening soon, i guess that's when we'll see how the market plays out.

In Steve's article he mentions a hotel use as likely and although I heard differently, I hope he's right.

I think it's getting harder to get hotel projects financed because there has been so many of them built everywhere, not only in OKC.

But, urban areas are different in that critical mass is very important and in that sense, all these rooms feed off each other; brings more people in, allows for bigger events, etc.

If it becomes an overbuilt situation, then the low-end, poorly located hotels will suffer most; projects like the Bricktown Homewood Suites and Straybridge Suites.


Really excited to see the proposals. I really prefer at least part of the tower be used for a hotel because that would mean the Great Banking Hall would be at least semi-public space.

Hotel oversupply will hurt the Memorial road and far suburban hotels first. I predict low occupancy in those will be the signal that the market has hit saturation, I think downtown hotels will continue to fill.

Doesn't OKC currently have fewer full-service hotels than most cities its size? Most of the hotels that have been built are of the low-end ilk such as Staybridge and Homewood Suites.