I ventured into the Great Banking Hall the other day for the first time in maybe a year. I like to go up there from time to time and just soak it in. Anyway, while I was up there some folks were being toured through it. Probably a half-dozen. Had never seen that before. Also, there was a Rolls Royce parked out front. OK, totally kidding about that last part.

I ventured into the Great Banking Hall the other day for the first time in maybe a year. I like to go up there from time to time and just soak it in. Anyway, while I was up there some folks were being toured through it. Probably a half-dozen. Had never seen that before. Also, there was a Rolls Royce parked out front. OK, totally kidding about that last part.

Ha! What a great insider reference. Only those who regularly browsed the Mystery Tower thread earlier this year would get that joke.

Btw, I believe this was actually the car parked outside:

http://ts3.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.5002886482366134&pid=1.7

:wink:

Also, there was a Rolls Royce parked out front.

+1

+1

+1 as well...also as a resident of heritage hills/mesta park, the lack of parking on this really bothers me :wink:

We looked at the The Great Banking Hall for a wedding reception venue and was told they will be doing their last wedding in March and then will be closed for renovations. If they are starting renovations in the next couple months shouldn't they be presenting plans pretty soon?

We looked at the The Great Banking Hall for a wedding reception venue and was told they will be doing their last wedding in March and then will be closed for renovations. If they are starting renovations in the next couple months shouldn't they be presenting plans pretty soon?

Interesting.

I know Steve had heard plans were brewing but he said in his chat yesterday (if I interpretted his comments correctly) that that is now a dead deal.

Maybe there is a different initiative by the current owners?


And they wouldn't have to submit anything to design review unless they planned to change the exterior in some way. They would need a building permit however, and nothing has been filed as of yet.

Interesting.

I know Steve had heard plans were brewing but he said in his chat yesterday (if I interpretted his comments correctly) that that is now a dead deal.

Maybe there is a different initiative by the current owners?


And they wouldn't have to submit anything to design review unless they planned to change the exterior in some way. They would need a building permit however, and nothing has been filed as of yet.

On the dead deal, wasn't Steve referring to the purchase of the old garage on 10th and hudson that fell through?

He's said he thought it was dead and this is what he said in the chat yesterday:


Guest 11:09 a.m. Any new developments with the First National Center?

Steve Lackmeyer 11:09 a.m. Nope.

This is what Steve said in his last chat prior to last week:


Pat 11:14 a.m. Steve, Is anything exiciting about to happen with First National ? Thanks

Steve Lackmeyer 11:14 a.m. I wish, but I have my doubts.

This is what Steve said in his last chat prior to last week:

Ah, got it. Thanks

Some big news: I just learned from a very good source that the First National Center will soon be officially listed for sale (if it isn't already) by commercial real estate brokers.

We should hear something official very soon.


What this means is that it will go on the open market and give any developers who may be interested the opportunity to make a deal. And it comes at a very good time, with lots of local and now national developers in high gear all over town. And of course, all of downtown is experiencing great occupancy rates for hotel, residential and office. Even most the retail space has been filling up.


It's very likely that any sale would bring changes; likely the removal of some of the non-historic portion to add parking, the lack of which has been a limiter for the entire complex.

Here's hoping someone steps forward with a real passion for this property. You would think hotel and residential in the tower would be the most feasible, with the newer additions remaining office.

Thanks for sharing the news, Pete. I've been checking this thread routinely for real development news lately. First National is the architectural jewel of Oklahoma. It is the triumphant symbol of our city's past, like the Empire State Building, or Terminal Tower.

I also meant to mention that since there will be a broker involved (I understand it will be CBRE) it's likely the sales price at least has some basis in reality and the owners are relatively serious about selling.

Most big brokerage firms won't put their name on a high-profile listing unless the price is at least somewhere near the real market value.


As a reminder, this group from Los Angeles paid $21 million in 2006, which everyone thought was way over the mark, especially at that time. Then in late 2012, they conducted some sort of internal deal (family members or at least direct business associates) for $5.3 million.

It's difficult to value a property like this, particularly one with so many problems and limitations, but you would have to think the real market value would be somewhere between those two numbers.

Thanks for sharing the news, Pete. I've been checking this thread routinely for real development news lately. First National is the architectural jewel of Oklahoma. It is the triumphant symbol of our city's past, like the Empire State Building, or Terminal Tower.

I've always likened First National to the Empire State building and City place to the GE building. This is incredibly exciting!

I've always likened First National to the Empire State building and City place to the GE building. This is incredibly exciting!
The ironic thing is City Place Tower actually has connections to the Empire State building, the same contractor built both.

The ironic thing is City Place Tower actually has connections to the Empire State building, the same contractor built both.

I think going off of form, City Place is our Chrysler Tower.

Seriously though, Ramsey/Cityplace does share significant architectural elements/similarities with GE/Rockefeller Center. Glad that bluedog mentioned the contractor connection to the ESB. That whole skyscraper race story is fascinating and not dissimilar from ESB/Chrysler.

I worked in Cityplace for awhile with TAP, my window looked out to FNC. There was still an amazing amount of detail on FNC even up at 27th floor. The building race between the two is a very interesting story.

Which is interesting bc today if two developers both wanted to build skyscrapers, instead of trying to out-do the other, there would be a meeting of the minds with just one going forward so as to not compete too much.

It isn't about not competing. It's about being able to get financing when there is a limited proven demand. If you are talking about über rich barons able to take losses for ego sake and are bankrolling it themselves, then maybe they would still let their egos drive it and not sound business judgement.

Enjoyed my visit to my doctor at First National, followed by a tasty and wildly affordable breakfast at Golden Dragon.

The ironic thing is City Place Tower actually has connections to the Empire State building, the same contractor built both.

That's extremely interesting! Thanks for that tidbit!

Which is interesting bc today if two developers both wanted to build skyscrapers, instead of trying to out-do the other, there would be a meeting of the minds with just one going forward so as to not compete too much.Competition is good. If we one trying to "out do the other" that would be even better. We would have taller and nicer buildings.

It isn't about not competing. It's about being able to get financing when there is a limited proven demand. If you are talking about über rich barons able to take losses for ego sake and are bankrolling it themselves, then maybe they would still let their egos drive it and not sound business judgement.

Modern business judgment does not build landmarks.

Modern business judgment does not build landmarks.

Devon comes close to being landmark status. Usually it happens these days when it is shareholder money at stake, and not an individual's. A company like Devon had several business justifications....one being increasing their visibility and creating the impression that they are in the best position to recruit the best talent. The company did not have to finance the building, so banking wasn't an issue.

Any businessman that makes decisions to spend lavishly without proper financial constraints, and does so purely out of ego won't have their money for long. It works in Dubai because of the status of the Khalifas, but show me elsewhere where in a competitive business city that landmarks are built by individuals just because they can.

It's for sale

First National Center up for sale | NewsOK.com (http://m.newsok.com/first-national-center-up-for-sale/article/3947362)

From Steve's article.


Cathy O’Connor, president of The Alliance for Development of Oklahoma City, said city officials are aware that a public/private partnership will be needed.

This is not surprising at all.

What?! TEAR IT DOWN!!

What?! TEAR IT DOWN!!
I realize that you're trying to be sarcastic and funny, but it's starting to fall flat. At least this aging landmark is actually still being used actively, practically and continually—unlike some of the other dilapidating, "unique" landmarks that hardcore preservationists lamented their doom (without doing anything substantive to rectify the "injustice" of it all).

What?! TEAR IT DOWN!!
I realize that you're being sarcastic and trying to be funny, but it's starting to fall flat. At least this aging landmark is actually still being used actively, practically and continually—unlike some of the other dilapidating, "unique" landmarks that hardcore preservationists lamented their doom (without doing anything substantive to rectify the "injustice" of it all).

I realize that you're trying to be sarcastic and funny, but it's starting to fall flat. At least this aging landmark is actually still being used actively, practically and continually—unlike some of the other dilapidating, "unique" landmarks that hardcore preservationists lamented their doom (without doing anything substantive to rectify the "injustice" of it all).

This.

Yeah, not trying to be funny at all. The idea of public/private partnership was raised, and for some that is the litmus test for whether or not a building should survive. You can't have it both ways. Or, apparently you can.

I realize that you're being sarcastic and trying to be funny, but it's starting to fall flat. At least this aging landmark is actually still being used actively, practically and continually—unlike some of the other dilapidating, "unique" landmarks that hardcore preservationists lamented their doom (without doing anything substantive to rectify the "injustice" of it all).

By the way, aren't you the person who chases me into unrelated threads and trolls me on this subject? Yeah, I thought so.

By the way, aren't you the person who chases me into unrelated threads and trolls me on this subject? Yeah, I thought so.
I don't chase you anywhere. In fact, I don't chase anyone. However, if I'm reading a thread and see another inane comment, I'm not going to avoid responding to it simply because you are paranoid—which you incorrectly and baselessly ascribe as "trolling."

Yeah, not trying to be funny at all. The idea of public/private partnership was raised, and for some that is the litmus test for whether or not a building should survive. You can't have it both ways. Or, apparently you can.
How am I trying to have it both ways?

Excuse me, my post was relevant to the topic at hand, and I will continue to post as I see fit. If you want to follow me around just to criticize or attempt to incite me you are welcome to do so.

How am I trying to have it both ways?

I meant "you" in the general sense.

I meant "you" in the general sense.
Fair enough.

Devon comes close to being landmark status. Usually it happens these days when it is shareholder money at stake, and not an individual's. A company like Devon had several business justifications....one being increasing their visibility and creating the impression that they are in the best position to recruit the best talent. The company did not have to finance the building, so banking wasn't an issue.

Any businessman that makes decisions to spend lavishly without proper financial constraints, and does so purely out of ego won't have their money for long. It works in Dubai because of the status of the Khalifas, but show me elsewhere where in a competitive business city that landmarks are built by individuals just because they can.

I was comparing different times, not different places. I'm not bchris...

People are testy today.

First National Center is up for sale with brokers urging potential buyers to look at it as a redevelopment opportunity. (http://newsok.com/first-national-center-up-for-sale/article/3947362)
By Steve Lackmeyer Published: March 26, 2014


The sale was posted this week by the Oklahoma City office of CBRE and is being represented by Amy Dunn. The listing does not include an asking price, though a separate office at CBRE appraised the property at $8.5 million during bankruptcy proceedings in 2012.

I realize that you're being sarcastic and trying to be funny, but it's starting to fall flat. At least this aging landmark is actually still being used actively, practically and continually—unlike some of the other dilapidating, "unique" landmarks that hardcore preservationists lamented their doom (without doing anything substantive to rectify the "injustice" of it all).

Agreed 100%

I realize that you're being sarcastic and trying to be funny, but it's starting to fall flat. At least this aging landmark is actually still being used actively, practically and continually—unlike some of the other dilapidating, "unique" landmarks that hardcore preservationists lamented their doom (without doing anything substantive to rectify the "injustice" of it all).

+++++++11111111111

The fact it is officially listed for sale is cause for celebration, although I'd feel better it there was a stated price.

The good news is the current owners can't continue to carry a 75% vacant property, especially since they don't seem to have the assets and/or interest to improve it.

It will likely take a group of locals that have a passion for both OKC and the structure and someone with deep enough pockets to conduct major surgery.

Seems like the logical approach would be to take out some of the non-historical center and eastern sections and replace with parking, while retaining the arcade and ground-level retail.

Then, the tower could be converted to a hotel or housing and the remainder could be office.


This is really the last big piece of the downtown puzzle and it looks like we are headed in the right direction.

OMG, people. By all means, PLEASE put me on ignore.

The fact it is officially listed for sale is cause for celebration, although I'd feel better it there was a stated price.

The good news is the current owners can't continue to carry a 75% vacant property, especially since they don't seem to have the assets and/or interest to improve it.

It will likely take a group of locals that have a passion for both OKC and the structure and someone with deep enough pockets to conduct major surgery.

Seems like the logical approach would be to take out some of the non-historical center and eastern sections and replace with parking, while retaining the arcade and ground-level retail.

Then, the tower could be converted to a hotel or housing and the remainder could be office.


This is really the last big piece of the downtown puzzle and it looks like we are headed in the right direction.
Well said and agree 100%

The fact it is officially listed for sale is cause for celebration, although I'd feel better it there was a stated price.

The good news is the current owners can't continue to carry a 75% vacant property, especially since they don't seem to have the assets and/or interest to improve it.

It will likely take a group of locals that have a passion for both OKC and the structure and someone with deep enough pockets to conduct major surgery.

Seems like the logical approach would be to take out some of the non-historical center and eastern sections and replace with parking, while retaining the arcade and ground-level retail.

Then, the tower could be converted to a hotel or housing and the remainder could be office.


This is really the last big piece of the downtown puzzle and it looks like we are headed in the right direction.

It may be true but I hope somehow it could be worked out that we do not loose one of the few street walls downtown that was designed with retail on the ground floor and many levels above it

^

You wouldn't have to lose the streetwall... The parking about the retail could be built out in the same way.

In fact, it would almost have to be given the constraints of the property.

Most that office space above has been empty for a long time and looks pretty shabby.

Heard today that Gary Brooks may be the front-runner to buy this property.


Might explain why he decided to bow out of the LIFT development.

That makes sense. This project will require a developer with experience working with diverse financing options including tax credits, TIF, etc.

I believe that Brooks and Don Karchmer are working together on some conceptual plans.

Don't believe the complex is under contract or that they've agreed to terms. Just trying to come up with something that will work.

Watched the NBA Western Finals on Sunday, and while I was happy/impressed by the aerial shots that TnT did for Oklahoma City's ever expanding CBD *and I have to say TnT does OKC justice, ABC/Espn not so much*.

However, I was quite disappointed with the lighting of most of the towers; most particularly FNC. Why is it not lit up? It would have made a tremendous difference if FNC would be lit up (at least white, but Thunder blue would add a touch) for those shots/special events at least. Might even help justify the cost of the sale if folks could 'see' the building on TV.

On the off chance the building's owners were watching, I wonder if they even knew which building is the one they own. This building needs local ownership...YESTERDAY.

Watched the NBA Western Finals on Sunday, and while I was happy/impressed by the aerial shots that TnT did for Oklahoma City's ever expanding CBD *and I have to say TnT does OKC justice, ABC/Espn not so much*.

However, I was quite disappointed with the lighting of most of the towers; most particularly FNC. Why is it not lit up? It would have made a tremendous difference if FNC would be lit up (at least white, but Thunder blue would add a touch) for those shots/special events at least. Might even help justify the cost of the sale if folks could 'see' the building on TV.

I think you know the answer to this if you read the last 10 pages of this thread. The owner is more interested in holding this building hostage than improving it or making any effort to make it look nice.

Small thing, but Cafe 7 is adding a small outdoor patio to the north of their restaurant, along Park Ave.

Should add some street life. And remember, the City just commissioned a big study in hopes of creating a retail corridor along Park.

Small thing, but Cafe 7 is adding a small outdoor patio to the north of their restaurant, along Park Ave.

Should add some street life. And remember, the City just commissioned a big study in hopes of creating a retail corridor along Park.

Cool! I've always thought that street is our best CBD option for something like 16th St in Denver (although much shorter and not closed to vehicles). Wish they would add to their hours.

Has Cafe 7 extended their hours yet? I know they were considering it. That is one of my favorite lunch eateries in the world.

Has Cafe 7 extended their hours yet? I know they were considering it. That is one of my favorite lunch eateries in the world.

They had not last week when I was around. Still open to about 2:30pm.

I will say they are lit up on Saturdays with people inside. I think they run catering out of there or something.

Has a permit been filed for a smoothie place? I saw a new sign on the window of the long vacant retail space, but didn't get up close to read it.

The Cafe 7 patio will be great, once the P180 work is complete.

Also, no one has mentioned that super classy vape store!

Has a permit been filed for a smoothie place? I saw a new sign on the window of the long vacant retail space, but didn't get up close to read it.

The Cafe 7 patio will be great, once the P180 work is complete.

Also, no one has mentioned that super classy vape store!

Where exactly are the smoothie and vapor store located?