I hope the whole thing goes to a local investor sometime soon. I like the idea of turning the middle building into a parking garage that would serve the first national building. Parking is a big deterrent for businesses right now. I have talked with several new companies that have recently moved downtown and they have to park on a day to day basis. They are on a waiting list for monthly parking. If you combine this with the overall lack of maintenance of the building then they are not very attractive. I will say that the space that Devon vacates will be in good shape though.

He can't hold onto it forever. Capmark is going to take a huge hit from this. The good news is eventually someone will be able to pick it up for its real value. Hopefully we get a local investor who will return it to its former glory. Perhaps a joint public/private group like was done with the Skirvin? If I had any money that's what I'd be trying to set up right now.

Has it been reported how much Yashouafar is paying Capmark for these extensions?

In Steve's article it said they have paid them more than $1 million for extensions.

That sounds like a lot but they probably aren't paying them anything else and interest alone on a $21 million loan has to be over a million a year.

Pete, sources tell me it's likely Yashouafar has paid $1 million for EACH extension, but this is not info I can confirm. I only know that he has paid AT LEAST $1 million.

I wonder if he has a deal with Capmark that these payment extensions count toward the $12 million.

Are there any parameters for the city to use eminent domain in cases where the building itself is not declared unsafe but the owner is deemed negligent/of questionable character (i.e. this situation)?

In controversial fashion, the rules of eminent domain were changed a few years ago to be much more liberal, wherein municipalities can now use it to take properties that are then used for private development. Used to be, you could only do this for public projects.

So, it is possible to force a sale if a city or government entity feels like there is a higher and better use and that the entire community would benefit.

I'm sure the City does not want to get involved at this point and are hoping as we all are that Yashouafar gets taken out of the picture and then they can work with Capmark to find the right developer and use.

In controversial fashion, the rules of eminent domain were changed a few years ago to be much more liberal, wherein municipalities can now use it to take properties that are then used for private development. Used to be, you could only do this for public projects.

So, it is possible to force a sale if a city or government entity feels like there is a higher and better use and that the entire community would benefit.

I'm sure the City does not want to get involved at this point and are hoping as we all are that Yashouafar gets taken out of the picture and then they can work with Capmark to find the right developer and use.

Thanks; so I guess it could be a last case scenario...

FNC will not be taken by eminent domain. Poorly managed though it may be, there is no legitimate government purpose to justify the taking. The Kelo decision allows for private development of publicly taken land, but downtown OKC is hardly analogous to New London's waterfront area pre-redevelopment.

Wonder how much he pays in property tax and if he has missed a payment.

Wonder how much he pays in property tax and if he has missed a payment.

Total taxes for all three properties (West, Central & East) were only $137,000 and all are paid.

In controversial fashion, the rules of eminent domain were changed a few years ago to be much more liberal, wherein municipalities can now use it to take properties that are then used for private development. Used to be, you could only do this for public projects.

So, it is possible to force a sale if a city or government entity feels like there is a higher and better use and that the entire community would benefit.

I'm sure the City does not want to get involved at this point and are hoping as we all are that Yashouafar gets taken out of the picture and then they can work with Capmark to find the right developer and use.


The course of the law of eminent domain is misstated. For many years (decades) prior to Kelo, many jurisdictions have in fact used eminent domain to take properties that were then used for private development. Many commentators and constitutional scholars believed such takings were a violation of the constitution and challenges ensued. Some challenges were successful; some were not. A few years ago, the US Supreme Court took the Kelo case to settle the dispute among the Federal circuits and ruled (mistakenly in my opinion) that such takings are allowed by the United States constitution.

The state of the law in Oklahoma is also misstated. After Kelo, the Oklahoma Supreme Court ruled in Mukogee County v. Lowery that Oklahoma "state constitutional eminent domain provisions place more stringent limitation on governmental eminent domain power than the limitations imposed by the Fifth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution." Under the Oklahoma constitution and statutes, economic development alone is not a "public purpose" sufficient to exercise the power of eminent domain.

Thank's for the cite. I studied out of state, and don't practice anything remotely related to con law in OK. I think I'll read that soon. (Happy belated Constitution Day.)

FNC will not be taken by eminent domain. Poorly managed though it may be, there is no legitimate government purpose to justify the taking. The Kelo decision allows for private development of publicly taken land, but downtown OKC is hardly analogous to New London's waterfront area pre-redevelopment.

I disagree. Totally analogous. Yes, things are looking good, but the public investments we have made and keep making totally change the picture and make downtown different.

One dim bulb in the CBD does not equal an entire district that "needed" to be revitalized. None of the negative factors in New London that may exist in OKC (most of them do not) can be attributed to FNC being below its potential.

Not true. You have to view the CBD as a sub-district of downtown... And obviously much of the CBD is still blighted.

I disagree. Totally analogous. Yes, things are looking good, but the public investments we have made and keep making totally change the picture and make downtown different.

So... totally analogous, but different?

In the end, though, it does not matter if it downtown OKC is totally analagous to the New London waterfront. Oklahoma law does not allow an eminent domain taking solely for economic development. See Post #735, above.

A recent photo of the Great Banking Hall... Can't wait until this beautiful building is in good hands:


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bankinghall1.jpg

I wonder how many people in OKC have no idea this exists. This is a tremendous example of "they don't build them like they used to". This truly is a world class structure - the design compares well with similar buildings anywhere in the US. I swear if I were to win the Powerball tonight I would go to Capmark and force them to sell it to me somehow.

The space just screams hotel lobby with a classy cocktail lounge running down the center. Imagine bright and beautiful art deco type of plush furniture and lots of martinis.


Also, most people don't realize that that is a real skylight above... This part of the structure is u-shaped all the way up to accommodate this feature and to add natural light.

Imagine it cleaned up and transparent, being able to see the sky above.

The best thing about it is it is "real", authentic, craftsmanship. I cannot imagine what it would cost to build something equivalent today - the stonework alone would be a massive cost.

Among the hundreds of amazing details in this building, I particularly love these four murals, as they tell such a great story of OK and OKC:



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/fncmural1.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/fncmural2.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/fncmural3.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/fncmural4.jpg

I wonder how many people in OKC have no idea this exists. This is a tremendous example of "they don't build them like they used to". This truly is a world class structure - the design compares well with similar buildings anywhere in the US. I swear if I were to win the Powerball tonight I would go to Capmark and force them to sell it to me somehow. I'm one of those people who didn't know about this beautiful structure. She is just amazing. I'm kinda mad at myself for not knowing about this. lol

Why can't the city do for this building what they did for the Skirvin? Take the MAPS 3 money and buy it, renovate it as a hotel, and call it the Convention Center hotel? Isn't there money in MAPS 3 to build a convention hotel? Does the hotel really have to be attached to the convention center to be called the convention center hotel?

I'm one of those people who didn't know about this beautiful structure. She is just amazing. I'm kinda mad at myself for not knowing about this. lol

Do yourself a favor and go downtown, enter First National Center on Robinson, and merely walk straight up the stairs in front of you.

It may be roped off but no one will care if you just go to the top of the stairs and take a look. Or, you could go up one more level to the management office and ask if you can take a look around.

The space is amazing.

A recent photo of the Great Banking Hall... Can't wait until this beautiful building is in good hands:


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bankinghall1.jpg

I went to a fabulous wedding reception here this summer.

I think I am going to go do that right now.

Since I have the week off, I may get down there for lunch one day at the Cafe 7. I haven't seen it since 2007 when I was interviewing with Devon. Got a quick peek and that is the only reason I knew about it.

I wonder how many people in OKC have no idea this exists. This is a tremendous example of "they don't build them like they used to". This truly is a world class structure - the design compares well with similar buildings anywhere in the US. I swear if I were to win the Powerball tonight I would go to Capmark and force them to sell it to me somehow.

I've lived here my whole life and had never known this existed. Thanks for the pic Pete. Stunning!

Why can't the city do for this building what they did for the Skirvin? Take the MAPS 3 money and buy it, renovate it as a hotel, and call it the Convention Center hotel? Isn't there money in MAPS 3 to build a convention hotel? Does the hotel really have to be attached to the convention center to be called the convention center hotel?

God I hope not. If they do that, might as well change our name to Leningrad also.

BTW, that big marble half-walled thing in the center is not original.

It was added sometime later and could easily be removed for my mythical martini bar.

The space just screams hotel lobby with a classy cocktail lounge running down the center. Imagine bright and beautiful art deco type of plush furniture and lots of martinis.


Also, most people don't realize that that is a real skylight above... This part of the structure is u-shaped all the way up to accommodate this feature and to add natural light.

Imagine it cleaned up and transparent, being able to see the sky above.

Every time that I have been in there I have thought the same thing, the same of it is that it isn't on the main entry floor. The ground floor is rather pedestrian compared to the lobby. Seems to me they would need to figure out a way to open it up to Robinson. I still wish Magnolia Hotels could get a hold of it.

One of my fond memories in direct relationship to the "wonderment" of those "awesome" photos of the inside of the bank, was during that very cold, early era, NewYearsOpeningNightOKCDowntownFest. Back in the Day . . .

We--not The Royal We, rather me and some friends--emerged from some leaky pedestrian underground tunnel--a haven from the reality of the prevailing weather conditions that year (circa -30 wind chill . . . obviously before global warming kicked in) including an amusing array of "store" fronts containing, in recognition of the importance of The Festivities,some fairly famous older local jazz/blues guitar wizard(s) (Bernie? Barney? with a K? Maybe Kessel)? in a flooded, deserted underground storefront selling some sort of trinkets?)--up some stairs and into . . . THAT!!! It was pretty darned amazing.

And it still is.
(So it remains.)
-amen-

I seem to recall that some ProtoRedDirt/Country Western/Big Band was playing . . . (excellent acoustics, btw)
Maybe The Flaming Lips could start marking the calendar for . . . =)

For sure, "Nonesuch" (that old timey semi-local "celtic" band) was at the other awesome downtown venue that year.
CitiPlace . . .CitiLobby . . . CityCenter . . .?

Quick Question: Have all of the details, regarding the continued preservation, of "The Golden Dome" @ 23 n' dC" been worked out yet?
I hope so. There are "banks" . . . and then there are "Banks" . . . and then there are memory banks =)

Edited to Add: Why didn't "Magnificent" gain the same public traction as "Awesome"?
e.g. The Photos Are Magnificent. Thank You.

Sid: The sidewalks are OK. And the Urbanity. Task: Get on that video.

Translation w/o BS:
Thanks for the photograph, Pete.
It was nearly perfect.

Oops . . . Almost Forgot . . .
(for the "Leningrad" ParadigmOptionComparisonComrade, Post #753, subref #755 =)

"All Things Considered, I'd Rather Be In OKC. In Fact, I'm Banking on it."
http://static.atlasobscura.netdna-cdn.com/images/place/lenins-mausoleum.2342.large_slideshow.jpg

They could place ("The LenMeister") on that expedient, yet cheap and ineffective visual block interferring with the view of the authentic lobby.
Or not. This is, after all, a free country. =)

Fortunately for US . . . Great Buildings survive Stupid People. Most of the time (Pei). (sorry . . .

Thanks, again, Pete.
(with apologies and gratitude)

I wonder if this building is still on well water ? Anyone know ?

Why can't the city do for this building what they did for the Skirvin? Take the MAPS 3 money and buy it, renovate it as a hotel, and call it the Convention Center hotel? Isn't there money in MAPS 3 to build a convention hotel? Does the hotel really have to be attached to the convention center to be called the convention center hotel?

yes the CC hotel needs to be attached to the CC ..

Also, most people don't realize that that is a real skylight above... This part of the structure is u-shaped all the way up to accommodate this feature and to add natural light.

Was a skylight. I was in the Department of Tourism offices awhile back and managed to sneak a peak outside expecting to see the skylight. I was shocked to discover that the skylight had been covered over by a roof. It is artificially lit now. It that was opened back with transparent glass, that would be stunning.

.....

Also, most people don't realize that that is a real skylight above... This part of the structure is u-shaped all the way up to accommodate this feature and to add natural light.

Imagine it cleaned up and transparent, being able to see the sky above.

FYI, it used to be a skylight, became to much of a maintenance issue , leaking etc., covered over with roof structure and artificial lighting.

Still a great space though! Something of interest, if you get a chance to go up there, you'll notice in front of the each of the teller stations what appears to be a depression in the marble/granite? floors. It's actually wear from customers waiting while making transactions...

FYI, it used to be a skylight, became to much of a maintenance issue , leaking etc., covered over with roof structure and artificial lighting.

Still a great space though! Something of interest, if you get a chance to go up there, you'll notice in front of the each of the teller stations what appears to be a depression in the marble/granite? floors. It's actually wear from customers waiting while making transactions...

Surely it could be repaired with modern construction technology to make it weather tight and less of a maintenance issue. Just another project for the future owner I suppose.

I wonder how many people in OKC have no idea this exists. This is a tremendous example of "they don't build them like they used to". This truly is a world class structure - the design compares well with similar buildings anywhere in the US. I swear if I were to win the Powerball tonight I would go to Capmark and force them to sell it to me somehow.

If you look back about 20 pages I said the exact thing. lol. If I won the powerball this building would be mine... and I wouldn't spare any expense on making it not only a place for me to live in style, but also a hotel/condo/retail facility. But, as it were, the odds are not on my side. :(

A few more really nice pics of the banking hall can be found here:

OKC Daily Images: A Favorite Hide Away (http://okcimages.blogspot.com/2010/11/favorite-hide-away.html)

I was able to see the upper floors of the FNC exterior from City Place today. It looks pretty rough. I also heard there is a lot of asbestos in the building. It will take someone with very deep pockets and a strong desire to save this great building to restore it. I sincerely hope it happens sooner rather than later so it doesn't deteriorate until it is too far gone. To lose FNC now would be tragic.

I was able to see the upper floors of the FNC exterior from City Place today. It looks pretty rough. I also heard there is a lot of asbestos in the building. It will take someone with very deep pockets and a strong desire to save this great building to restore it. I sincerely hope it happens sooner rather than later so it doesn't deteriorate until it is too far gone. To lose FNC now would be tragic.

That is a bit extreme. Detroit had skyscrapers sit open for 20 years that were then rehabed.

That is a bit extreme. Detroit had skyscrapers sit open for 20 years that were then rehabed.

I hope you are right. I was kind of surprised at the condition of the various ventilation inlets / outlets, roof, and other equipment. This was the first time I have ever seen any of this. Honestly, I think the asbestos abatement may end up being the most expensive part of putting this great building back to use.

Mold remediation can also be expensive if the building seal is violated and rain enters the walls or roof structure.

I was able to see the upper floors of the FNC exterior from City Place today. It looks pretty rough. I also heard there is a lot of asbestos in the building. It will take someone with very deep pockets and a strong desire to save this great building to restore it. I sincerely hope it happens sooner rather than later so it doesn't deteriorate until it is too far gone. To lose FNC now would be tragic.

The FNC was remediated for asbestos in 2010.

There is no asbestos left at First National - it was removed.

There is no asbestos left at First National - it was removed.

That is great news. I - like everyone else that likes the FNC - worry the longer it goes without proper maintenance the more difficult any restoration will be. Still, were I to come up with a winning PowerBall ticket I might give it a go.

Me too. I had the privilege of being in the top floor a few years ago, and it made me fall in love with this city. The amazing views, combined with the ornate architecture and the bank at the bottom, make this building my favorite.

Don't get too excited. Even with the asbestos removed, my estimate for bringing the historic tower, etc., to modern standards, code, etc. - a top to bottom makeover similar to what was done to the Skirvin - easily exceeds $80 million. And this is not a guess - this is an educated estimate based on many interviews I've had with knowledgeable sources.

Don't get too excited. Even with the asbestos removed, my estimate for bringing the historic tower, etc., to modern standards, code, etc. - a top to bottom makeover similar to what was done to the Skirvin - easily exceeds $80 million. And this is not a guess - this is an educated estimate based on many interviews I've had with knowledgeable sources.

It would definitely be a labor of love....and lots of money. I wonder what a restored FNC would be valued at? What ROI would a typical investor/developer need to take on a project with so much uncertainty?

Don't get too excited. Even with the asbestos removed, my estimate for bringing the historic tower, etc., to modern standards, code, etc. - a top to bottom makeover similar to what was done to the Skirvin - easily exceeds $80 million. And this is not a guess - this is an educated estimate based on many interviews I've had with knowledgeable sources.

Steve, is that $80 million for the entire center or just the main tower of 450,000 ft?

Don't get too excited. Even with the asbestos removed, my estimate for bringing the historic tower, etc., to modern standards, code, etc. - a top to bottom makeover similar to what was done to the Skirvin - easily exceeds $80 million. And this is not a guess - this is an educated estimate based on many interviews I've had with knowledgeable sources.

$80 million seems about right as the Skirvin was $55 million and isn't nearly the size and didn't have restrooms between floors like the FNC Tower.

BTW, the last loan extension is due to expire this week, but I've more or less stopped getting my hopes up that something is actually going to happen here any time soon.

$80 million seems about right as the Skirvin was $55 million and isn't nearly the size and didn't have restrooms between floors like the FNC Tower.

I've seen people say this before and it confuses me. What exactly does this mean? How are the bathrooms between the floors? I'm having trouble picturing this in my head.

I've seen people say this before and it confuses me. What exactly does this mean? How are the bathrooms between the floors? I'm having trouble picturing this in my head.

They mean that one floors has a men's room and the next floor has a women's room, which in turn means that one gender has to go to another floor to use the restroom. If a company only has one floor leased then someone is out of luck.

They mean that one floors has a men's room and the next floor has a women's room, which in turn means that one gender has to go to another floor to use the restroom. If a company only has one floor leased then someone is out of luck.

Makes sense now. Thanks. I thought they meant that the bathrooms were basically a separate floor. So that it would look like this:

Floor 3: Office Space
-
Floor 2: Bathroom
-
Floor 1: Office Space

And this didn't make sense to me to have a bathroom take up a whole floor.

They mean that one floors has a men's room and the next floor has a women's room, which in turn means that one gender has to go to another floor to use the restroom. If a company only has one floor leased then someone is out of luck.

the bathrooms are "midfloor" .... as in no matter what floor you are on you have to go up or down stairs to the bathroom ... and they do alternate men women men women ..

the bathrooms are "midfloor" .... as in no matter what floor you are on you have to go up or down stairs to the bathroom ... and they do alternate men women men women ..

Are they only accessible via the stairwell?

Are they only accessible via the stairwell?

i believe so.

Are they only accessible via the stairwell?

Yes, and they are located in between floors at the stair landings. So you go into the stairwell and go up or down to stair landing and the door to the restroom is located at the landing level between floors. Continue up or down and your on the next floor...

I officed on 28 and the fix for the restrooms to meet code and ADA was to build new on the actual leaseable floors. In our case it was a single unisex accessible restroom.