I agree with both sides of the parking topic. The example, of the Plaza area in Kansas City is perfect. I thought the same thing when visiting KC. The garages don't detract at all from the landscape and overall add to the area. I don't think this has been done on that level in OKC, yet. That includes MidtownR, even though they've done other really great things.

Why wouldn't we want everyone to be able to enjoy the pride of OKC, which is downtown? If it can be accomplished for both groups, then why not? Mass transit and alternative options for those in that group and strategically designed parking gargages, for those in the suburbs.

Just to clarify, I don't think anyone is saying there should be no parking, but that it should be responsive to the market, not mindlessly subsidized to excess.

I just have the feeling that for everyone that actually lives in the care within easy walking/transit distance of these thriving urban neighborhoods - well the availability (or lackthereof) of parking won't affect our lives one bit - and in fact the lack of free parking should do nothing but help the merchants that it serves. Study after study has shown that metered/paid parking helps facilitate turnover which increases business' receipts. I understand that in our car-centric world, that parking has a place. I've paid a pretty penny to park in cities all over the country. Pretty sure I've never parked for free in Chicago, Philly, or New York.

Which is a relatively small percentage compared to those who drive in from the suburbs. I am not sure of the exact numbers, but I can say downtown OKC in 2015 relies on people from the suburbs driving in to support its businesses. There aren't enough people living in downtown OKC yet for it to be completely self-sufficient. That is why I think its important to accommodate both needs and the Plaza in Kansas City is a good example of how to do it well. Lower Bricktown is an example of how NOT to do it. Now I am not one to try to say that parking should be free, you definitely cannot compare the situation in OKC with large, established cities like Chicago, Philly, and New York.

Just to clarify, I don't think anyone is saying there should be no parking, but that it should be responsive to the market, not mindlessly subsidized to excess.

I think someone just said this.


And why do we care whether there's parking or not? If we're trying to build a truly urban, walkable district, who the hell cares if there's parking?

That same person was referencing New York City and there is a ton of parking in Manhattan.

The area should be for everyone. Including those that want free parking. You don't have to charge $20+ to prove your city has made it. In fact in would say quit the opposite. A real move to show OKC is a forward thinking city. Would be finding a way to accommodate and attract, so much of its base that lives in the suburbs. I believe this can be done without giving up the urban identity we would all like to see.

Limit parking, so you can increase the amount of taxi cabs and uber drivers in the area? Public transit in OKC is nearly non exsitent.

Peronsally, I'm much more attracted to cities like San Diego, Kansas City, and Austin. Than Chicago and New York.

The area should be for everyone. Including those that want free parking. You don't have to charge $20+ to prove your city has made it. In fact in would say quit the opposite. A real move to show OKC is a forward thinking city. Would be finding a way to accommodate and attract, so much of its base that lives in the suburbs. I believe this can be done without giving up the urban identity we would all like to see.

Limit parking, so you can increase the amount of taxi cabs and uber drivers in the area? Public transit in OKC is nearly non exsitent.

Peronsally, I'm much more attracted to cities like San Diego, Kansas City, and Austin. Than Chicago and New York.

Of course nobody is saying that parking should be $20. That is ridiculous. Saying you should limit parking is equally ridiculous and even the cities you are attracted to don't limit parking other than normal regulations. There is absolutely free parking. You just have to walk a little more, which isn't a bad thing.

I don't live in the central city and never consider parking to be a deterrent to anything I want to do, even without using public transit.

It's also important to remember that light rail is about to run through MidTown in just a few years. Then people can drive, walk, or bike to any stop and get around the core. Building a bunch of free parking would be another reason not to take public transit. If OKC makes it easy to park anywhere for cheap or free then that could hurt/inhibit efforts to actually create an urban, walkable environment with successful transit.

It's also important to remember that light rail is about to run through MidTown in just a few years. Then people can drive, walk, or bike to any stop and get around the core. Building a bunch of free parking would be another reason not to take public transit. If OKC makes it easy to park anywhere for cheap or free then that could hurt/inhibit efforts to actually create an urban, walkable environment with successful transit.

You're absolutely right. If parking is free, of course I'll use it. If parking isn't free and if I have to walk a little, I'll still use it. If transit is available, so much the better.

Has anyone else noticed how parking is becoming a premium commodity in the area? If I had a say in any future MAPS project, I would include several, multi-story parking garages in the downtown/midtown area that are FREE! If anyone has ever been to The Plaza in Kansas City you know that there are several parking garages there and the parking is free, because they actually WANT you to come and spend money. My wife and I went by H & 8th on Friday night and there were thousands of people downtown. What an awesome sight! We were lucky enough to find a single parking spot on 8th and Robinson. So we walked through H8th and then went over to McNellies. And then as we were leaving McNellies we walked by Brown's Bakery where a church group had set up and was charging $20 to park! Now, I'm pretty much a Bible-thumper, but if there had been an atheist group, charging $5, I'd have given my money to them! $20?!? Are you kidding me?!? Will there ever be free parking in these areas? Or will it eventually turn into another Bricktown? Parking is the reason we don't even go to Bricktown anymore. But now, Midtown is starting to get full, as well.

Wait a minute... you parked downtown for free on a night with a major festival going on. But you are upset because someone was charging to park in a lot you didn't use?

I'm confused.

Ideally we will build just enough parking so that people from the suburbs can still make use of our downtown neighborhoods, but no more than absolutely necessary. Free parking is available in so much of this city that downtown is almost required to provide something like it just to be competitive. Right now, downtown has enough density and enough unique options that people are willing to either pay to park, or walk several blocks to park for free. The problem is that parking directly takes away from density -- the cool vibe that makes downtown special is lost if there's enough space between businesses for a bunch of cars to easily park.

I know people who refuse to go downtown because they can't park for free right in front of their destination. These are the same people who will circle around for 20 minutes in a parking lot looking to get a space just a little bit closer. People like that will not enjoy downtown, basically ever. We should just accept that. They aren't going downtown anyway, so we don't have to worry about pleasing them.

The two biggest solutions to needing more parking are mass transit and urban housing. If people live downtown, they don't have to drive downtown. Now for the most part, downtown apartment buildings have parking for residents, and that's fine. But that will eliminate the need for a lot of businesses to have much at all in the way of customer parking. Likewise when the streetcar goes in, travel around downtown will become a lot easier. Ideally, in 20 years, we'll have 50,000 people living downtown and the suburbs will be connected to it with light rail systems. So people all over the metro would be able to get to and around downtown without having to ever get in a car. We aren't there yet, obviously, but that should be the goal we build towards.

I think someone just said this.



That same person was referencing New York City and there is a ton of parking in Manhattan.

Wut?

There was plenty of on-street parking on Friday night. I think a lot of the suburban people who do not frequent downtown - do not realize that metered parking in all of OKC is free for all after 6pm and on weekends.

I was on my way to H&8th around 8pm and saw several people feeding the meters. And then people paying $10 to park in an automated lot that had open, FREE on-street parking right next to it.


Parking is not as catastrophic of a problem as people make it out to be. The problem is people not willing to walk to their destination.

Ideally we will build just enough parking so that people from the suburbs can still make use of our downtown neighborhoods, but no more than absolutely necessary. Free parking is available in so much of this city that downtown is almost required to provide something like it just to be competitive. Right now, downtown has enough density and enough unique options that people are willing to either pay to park, or walk several blocks to park for free. The problem is that parking directly takes away from density -- the cool vibe that makes downtown special is lost if there's enough space between businesses for a bunch of cars to easily park.

I know people who refuse to go downtown because they can't park for free right in front of their destination. These are the same people who will circle around for 20 minutes in a parking lot looking to get a space just a little bit closer. People like that will not enjoy downtown, basically ever. We should just accept that. They aren't going downtown anyway, so we don't have to worry about pleasing them.

The two biggest solutions to needing more parking are mass transit and urban housing. If people live downtown, they don't have to drive downtown. Now for the most part, downtown apartment buildings have parking for residents, and that's fine. But that will eliminate the need for a lot of businesses to have much at all in the way of customer parking. Likewise when the streetcar goes in, travel around downtown will become a lot easier. Ideally, in 20 years, we'll have 50,000 people living downtown and the suburbs will be connected to it with light rail systems. So people all over the metro would be able to get to and around downtown without having to ever get in a car. We aren't there yet, obviously, but that should be the goal we build towards.

So many great points here. I agree that mass transit and urban housing should be the goal with eventual light rail connecting the suburbs to downtown. One thing that's awesome about DFW is you can live in the suburbs and go downtown without having to worry about driving and parking. That is how it should be. Right now, too much of downtown OKC is geared towards parking, specifically the surface variety, in an attempt to please those who demand parking for free right in front of their destination (and will circle a parking lot for 20 minutes to avoid walking an extra 150 feet). As you said, it kills what makes downtown cool and special. Parking needs can be satisfied in ways that don't detract from the urban fabric. OKC just needs an innovative developer to do it.

There was plenty of on-street parking on Friday night. I think a lot of the suburban people who do not frequent downtown - do not realize that metered parking in all of OKC is free for all after 6pm and on weekends.

I was on my way to H&8th around 8pm and saw several people feeding the meters. And then people paying $10 to park in a automated lot that had open, FREE on-street parking right next to it.


Parking is not as catastrophic of a problem as people make it out to be. The problem is people not willing to walk to their destination.

Seriously. I parked all of four blocks away from H&8th with no trouble finding on-street parking (for free!). A total non-issue if people are willing to walk, as far as I've seen it.

On a better note, Midtown was unreal on Friday night. H&8th, Bleu Garten, and Fassler were all packed to the brim with the streets totally full of people... don't think I've ever seen a district in OKC so alive. It was really exciting to see.

Yea it was fantastic. I think everyone was excited to finally have a weekend to be outside and do something during what is normally one of our "outdoor weather" months.

I ended up catching a couple bike races, strolling through H&8th and then closed down Bleu. Perfect night.

It is easy to park almost everywhere in OKC.

That said, people don't choose to drive in from the suburbs because they are looking for an easy place to park. If they wanted an evening out with a good parking spot they could just stay in Yukon.

There are plenty of people who will avoid urban districts because they don't want to pay for parking or walk any distance. But check it out - business is booming and will continue to boom without catering to those people at all. If anything, the urban bars and restaurants are TOO crowded on some weekends, with long wait times- We still need more and more businesses to handle the crowds that are already coming in, not more parking.

We still need more and more businesses to handle the crowds that are already coming in, not more parking.

The best way to entice more businesses is to bring in more residents to the area. To get more residents, you need more housing. New housing is going to need parking, especially in Midtown where there are a ton of smaller lots and small empty buildings that could offer little to no parking for residents if they were developed into housing. A few well-placed garages would make nearby infill properties more attractive for development since there would be an opportunity for new residents to lease covered parking spaces.

Perfect! Because in the unlikely event that we go to Bricktown, we'll walk - we won't need a parking spot.

Is that parking garage you so clamor for free to build and maintain? If so, then free parking would be great! But as long as parking garages cost money to build and maintain, they're a massive waste of money and an eyesore. The "parking shortage" in midtown, plaza district, deep deuce is all part of growing pains - so as a city we can either plan for it by providing alternatives (paid parking, more transit options), or burn millions of dollars for no reason whatsoever.

Now, if midtownR builds a parking garage and charges for parking at a rate that sustains the maintenance and upkeep of the garage - then great!

Another perspective that I think needs to be considered is that parking is never the best possible use for a plot. Structured parking, on the other hand, with mixed use included (or better yet, mixed use that includes parking considerations) will always be the best possible use for a plot.

Had a great Saturday night with friends. Started out at Bleu Garten with an excellent shredded beef Bandido bowl. Then headed to Dust Bowl for one game. Then headed upstairs to Fassler Hall's patio and had an awesome sausage sampler (the lamb sausage is crazy good). Finished up the night at McNellies with a round of darts.

Great you can just pop in everywhere with no covers. I wish this kind of setup was around in my 20's but I would have been broke lol

Steve's update.

http://www.oklahoman.com/article/5427782


The Oklahoma City Council is set to decide Tuesday whether to annex Midtown to the downtown business improvement district, a move that would make Downtown Oklahoma City Inc. responsible for providing the area with marketing, street furnishings and maintenance of two roundabouts.

Steve's update.

http://www.oklahoman.com/article/5427782

I don't see how anything but good could come out of that. A lot of streets in Midtown are in pretty bad condition in every way from the street surface itself to landscaping and lighting. This may be a step towards improving that. Thoughts?

Did the city council vote yay or nay?

yea

Given what a fine journalist Bill Crum is, always finding the false equivalency that has nothing to do with development, I was really touched by the story of Anita Sanders, who owns "property" at 830 NW 10th apparently. Bill Crum and Anita Sanders must be kindred souls because neither of them understand development, and neither of them should be anywhere near it, but sadly Anita is going to have to build a fence to protect against increased activity, and Bill will probably cover it when that time comes.

I figured we could just spare all of us the sob story of Anita Sanders and Bill Crum being surrounded by all of this development they don't get, and just prevent it all. I figured this cause lent itself well to a logo.

10958

A very interesting article by Steve in his blog.

"We?re legislating taste and being arbitrary doing it." | News OK (http://newsok.com/were-legislating-taste-and-being-arbitrary-doing-it./article/5431780)

Will this sort of thing have a chilling effect on future development?

Another interesting exclusive by Steve.

Blighted Midtown Property Set to Become Showcase Home? | News OK (http://newsok.com/blighted-midtown-property-set-to-become-showcase-home/article/5432386)


Keoppel, who received quite a bit of attention for a modern home he built at 4711 N Blackwelder, has big plans for the property that include turning the home and guest house in the rear into a top notch, 5,000-foot-home with a pool in the yard.

A big thank you to Steve for this report.

Is 47th and Blackwelder Midtown or mid-town?

Is 47th and Blackwelder Midtown or mid-town?

His house at 47th and Blackwelder isn't the focus of this article. This is at 524 NW 8th St.

From the line that was highlighted, I can see why he thought that was the home that was being reported on.

Oops, my bad.

Just saw this in the news. Used prosthetics. Maybe they can rename themselves Eldorado Limb Sales.

Attorney General Files Fraud Charges Against Metro Prosthetic Co - News9.com (http://m.news9.com/story.aspx?story=29709710&catId=112032)

PARK PLACE'S PARKING SPACES: Private-public partnership provides parking for Midtown | News OK (http://newsok.com/park-places-parking-spaces-private-public-partnership-provides-parking-for-midtown/article/5437955)

I was in midtown today and took a swing by the 524 NW 8th street project. Does anyone who knows about these things know why they would be clearing the existing wood frame house by deconstructing it board by board, instead of bulldozing it? I figured one of you would know.

The old Meg Guess building is being expanded and converted into 3 lease spaces and the facade will be updated as well.

The alley between it and Louie's will be filled with the new addition.

Fitzsimmons Architects are doing the design work.

Chris Fleming at MidtownR said they don't have any deals signed yet.



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/1227walker1.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/1227walker2.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/1227walker3.jpg

That should be very successful if they are specifically targeting retail, as they seem to be with that design. Big retail floorplates are just a lot to say grace over for the types of quirky, local retailers that I'm sure they are hoping to attract.

:)

Seeing 4 "separate" buildings that are all hugging each other on the same block makes my heart happy.

https://www.periscope.tv/w/aPkCNjg1MDEzNjJ8MXZPR3duT3lQcG9LQoCnGDn6xJgLZIoMOP riZCltkqknR_GpCsz41A7ktH0U

The building north of Frontline and across from The Garage was painted white.

https://twitter.com/stevelackmeyer/status/657229413650591744

Nic's Diner + Lounge - OKCTalk (http://www.okctalk.com/showwiki.php?title=Nics%20Diner%20Plus%20Lounge&page=1#post915006)

This looks terrible and someone has some explaining to do...this kind of thing cannot be allowed to keep happening. Time for new blood and new ideas and new ways of doing things!

Love the new signage at Midtown Vets:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/midtownvets103015.jpg

I'm digging all of the small projects popping up in Midtown, where existing smaller property owners are taking part of the revitalization.

Any idea what is going on at 308 NW 10th? There have been trucks (pick ups) there for the past month or so. I saw them drilling on the west side of the building... Not sure if this has anything to do with the New Egg group or not.

Via Facebook, The Boulevard cafeteria is closing.

https://www.facebook.com/BoulavardCafeteria/

Wowee.

They had cut dinner recently, so the handwriting was on the wall.

As hot as Midtown is, I'll be very curious to see what happens with this building / space.

Boulevard Cafeteria in Oklahoma City closes today | News OK (http://newsok.com/boulevard-cafeteria-in-oklahoma-city-closes-today/article/5466165)

Sad sad day for me. I went there about once a week for the past 4 years. My grandmother started taking me there when I was a baby. Where am I going to get my veggies and icebox pie for lunch?

It is sad. The quality of the food wasn't great, but quite adequate. The places to eat out and have good, unpretentious comfort food at an appropriate price in this city are waning.

Sad sad day for me. I went there about once a week for the past 4 years. My grandmother started taking me there when I was a baby. Where am I going to get my veggies and icebox pie for lunch?

Yeah, same here. Been there more times than I can begin to count. First time was as a kid in about 1963 and, like you, have enjoyed their food on a regular basis. Damn, I'll miss that place.

It is sad. The quality of the food wasn't great, but quite adequate. The places to eat out and have good, unpretentious comfort food at an appropriate price in this city are waning.

Such is the result of gentrification and the changing demographics of downtown. Some of these restaurants that have been in business for ages can't old their own against the new competition. Unfortunately that means the loss of some of the more modest (yet low cost) institutions.

And economics often dictate higher and better use.

Their parking lot is massive. And used to be seriously patrolled (odd for a place open like 5 hours a day), so don't even think about parking there.


It is sad. The quality of the food wasn't great, but quite adequate. The places to eat out and have good, unpretentious comfort food at an appropriate price in this city are waning.

OKC is really quite lucky here, still. Braum's, Jimmy's Egg, Del Rancho, Anne's Chicken Fried, that place in Del City (forget the name, the only clean place today in town though so you can't miss it right on 29th)..and more come to mind. Comfort food is all I eat when I'm back in OKC lol.

Is Bobo's chicken still a thing? Totally worth risking your life.

[QUOTE=Spartan;925418]OKC is really quite lucky here, still. Braum's, Jimmy's Egg, Del Rancho, Anne's Chicken Fried, that place in Del City (forget the name, the only clean place today in town though so you can't miss it right on 29th)..and more come to mind. Comfort food is all I eat when I'm back in OKC lol./QUOTE]

I agree. If Paseofreak is only talking about the downtown area, that could be correct. But it's not correct about OKC as a whole. There are multitudes of places to get decent comfort food at reasonable prices.

It's our greatest asset IMO lol. There was an effort at getting Braum's to go to Deep Deuce about 10 years ago. That could be cool. Maybe something similar to the Lower Bricktown Sonic, but near a freeway exit.

Side note - has anyone seen Braum's headquarters on NE 63rd lately? Pretty shabby digs. I don't see how an effective modern company can operate out of there for much longer.

It's our greatest asset IMO lol. There was an effort at getting Braum's to go to Deep Deuce about 10 years ago. That could be cool. Maybe something similar to the Lower Bricktown Sonic, but near a freeway exit.

Side note - has anyone seen Braum's headquarters on NE 63rd lately? Pretty shabby digs. I don't see how an effective modern company can operate out of there for much longer.

Maybe Braum's could build a new headquarters next door to The Key's proposed, tornado building. Only, instead of tornados, Braum's could shape its building like a double-dip ice cream cone (with cappuccino chunky chocolate ice cream, of course).

I agree. If Paseofreak is only talking about the downtown area, that could be correct. But it's not correct about OKC as a whole. There are multitudes of places to get decent comfort food at reasonable prices.

I guess what I was talking about is a place where you can get sliced roast beef with mashed potatoes and gravy, another veggie, and pie for ten bucks and change, or maybe sliced turkey, or fried chicken. A sit down meal close to what your mama would feed you. Something a step up from a burger and sandwich place. And yes, proximity to The Paseo is important to me as well. Sherri's Diner and Jimmy's Round-up Cafe come to mind, but those are a ways away and probably not quite up to Boulevard quality.

I guess what I was talking about is a place where you can get sliced roast beef with mashed potatoes and gravy, another veggie, and pie for ten bucks and change, or maybe sliced turkey, or fried chicken. A sit down meal close to what your mama would feed you. Something a step up from a burger and sandwich place. And yes, proximity to The Paseo is important to me as well. Sherri's Diner and Jimmy's Round-up Cafe come to mind, but those are a ways away and probably not quite up to Boulevard quality.

Try a Family Affair on NE 23rd.

I do. And Florence's as well, but Flo's is edging past $15 for lunch and they are terribly skimpy with their chicken.

What is going on with the parking on 10th? It seems pretty dangerous as cars are parked on the side of the road throughout the day. With this street becoming busier and busier, it either needs to be no parking or be changed to one lane. Preferably no parking.

I have seen and have almost been hit by cars avoiding the parked cars near the stop lights.