Diversify.

It isn't that much more expensive to start 3 LLC's than it is to start one. Or four come to think on it.

Here's your plan. Add in a Uber type car as well.

Then, you can valet park folks, then tow their cars while they are in a porta potty, claiming the lot owner changed the rules, and then offer them a emergency surge price ride over to the impound lot. More chaching than you can count. (I keed of course. I bet you count good.)

So that only further cheapens the "unique design" many are praising the architect for, does it not?
Not really, it is "unique" in this day and age as it isn't used much any more outside of parking garages.

So that only further cheapens the "unique design" many are praising the architect for, does it not?

I like Fassler Hall, but you cannot sit in that building and NOT think "Parking garage"

I like Fassler Hall, but you cannot sit in that building and NOT think "Parking garage"

That's interesting because I managed to do that quite easily.

That's interesting because I managed to do that quite easily.
Some people have no "vision" beyond a very limited scope. It is a very cost effective way to build especially if they are doing a rooftop deck. It seems some would rather have empty lots than a building that doesn't fit their very narrow definition of what a building is supposed to look like.

Some people have no "vision" beyond a very limited scope. It is a very cost effective way to build especially if they are doing a rooftop deck. It seems some would rather have empty lots than a building that doesn't fit their very narrow definition of what a building is supposed to look like.

That's a passive personal attack. I really like what's happening in midtown. However, this building left some to be desired in my opinion. I really like the work Fitzsimmions and MitownR have done and this concept as well. Can't get around the fact the building looks like it was originally suppose to be a bridge. I apologize if that comes off to "mainstream".

I really don't like the yellow screen signage on the front.

That's a passive personal attack. I really like what's happening in midtown. However, this building left some to be desired in my opinion. I really like the work Fitzsimmions and MitownR have done and this concept as well. Can't get around the fact the building looks like it was originally suppose to be a bridge. I apologize if that comes off to "mainstream".
I know people with absolutely no "design vision" and they know it but they are very successful at their business endeavors, some are even in development but their strength is on the financial side of development. They are just hard to communicate with when it comes to the design.

There are plenty of styles that I don't like, I got so tired of doing faux Tuscan buildings in Austin and San Antonio when I lived in Austin but I did them because that is what the clients wanted. The double-T style was a very popular Mid-Century commercial style, in part because of cost and speed of building. If you don't like some aspects of commercial Mid-Century, they you probably wouldn't like Fassler but to deride it as a wanna be bridge or parking garage is just disingenuous.

I really don't like the yellow screen signage on the front.

^ Agreed, I'm very tired of the decorative metal that is being used all over especially Midtown. Enough already.

Is there any rumors of any developement going anywhere on the huge chunk of land? There are some pretty dense parts in midtown, (mostly the area around Broadway/10th and Walker/10th), but this area is veryyy open. Wouldnt mind seeing a grocery, or more housing. The only downtown grocery there is is Native Roots...and well, it's not that big. I beleive Midtown is in the process of of becoming OKC's next great neighborhood. It just needs the things that people need. I know if I was living downtown I would love to walk to a grocery, or CVS
10092

Yes, that is owned by Midtown Renaissance; the parcel in the southeast corner is Bleu Garten.

They definitely have plans to develop it and there have long been rumors that Uptown Grocery may be going in there, along with some other things.

They are probably a couple years away from making that happen.

I completely agree. All of that open area is one thing that bothers me about Midtown. It's worlds better than it was a few years ago but there is still too much open land and it kills the urban feel in the district. It would be a great place for a grocery or some kind of mixed use development.

Pete, do you think eventually they will cut off Park Place to make that area feasible for UG?

2/8/2015

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7330/16478684192_81f5ecb7d7_c.jpg

Not sure why this has not been renovated with the church.
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8640/16478685152_813f4183a7_c.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7297/16477906601_bc1c9c1da1_c.jpg

Thanks for all of your great pictures, plupan. You had a very busy day.

Anytime! I enjoyed walking around. Ate at Kaisers for the first time which was pretty good.

I was in Midtown yesterday. It was pretty crowded and active. One thing I couldn't help but notice though is how the district still has a long, long way to go from an urban perspective. While its impressive knowing the area's history and how far it declined, the fact that there are several blocks of gravel (really?) parking and so much open space kind of kills any kind of urban vibe the area could have. I am usually there at night so I don't notice it as much. I kind of wish LIFT was going at 10th and Hudson rather than on the other side of St Anthony. The area needs infill, bad.

The good news is that almost all those lots are in the hands of those who plan to develop them in the next few years.

I was in Midtown yesterday. It was pretty crowded and active. One thing I couldn't help but notice though is how the district still has a long, long way to go from an urban perspective. While its impressive knowing the area's history and how far it declined, the fact that there are several blocks of gravel (really?) parking and so much open space kind of kills any kind of urban vibe the area could have. I am usually there at night so I don't notice it as much. I kind of wish LIFT was going at 10th and Hudson rather than on the other side of St Anthony. The area needs infill, bad.

Agreed. But I think it's important to realize that before you can really expect infill, existing vacant buildings needed to be repurposed and brought back to life. Good thing is that most properties have already been revived and we're starting to see infill take place. The Edge, LIFT, Lisbon, Catholic Charities, Walker Building, St. Anthony's expansion, Fassler Hall, etc. We're well on our way.

I was in Midtown yesterday. It was pretty crowded and active. One thing I couldn't help but notice though is how the district still has a long, long way to go from an urban perspective. While its impressive knowing the area's history and how far it declined, the fact that there are several blocks of gravel (really?) parking and so much open space kind of kills any kind of urban vibe the area could have. I am usually there at night so I don't notice it as much. I kind of wish LIFT was going at 10th and Hudson rather than on the other side of St Anthony. The area needs infill, bad.

It will go quickly.

The good thing is that there is a very distinct spine of activity that has developed. It's the L from 13th and Walker over to 10th/Broadway via the 10th/Walker roundabout, and it will hopefully be a complete street wall before the Street Car is running. Turnaround time for FH/DB was about 15 months from Design review to completion. Hopefully though there are more projects announced that take about 21 months to complete because they're 5 to 8 stories (pushing it, I know). I especially hope that there is a push toward lot development rather than block development in Midtown. FH/DB was excellent mid-block development, but there's no reason that there couldn't have been 2 or even 3 developments in that amount of space.

Thanks indeed Plupan! These pics are amazing - you're really developing an eye for how to frame your vantage points (with pictures that is :P )

Midtown's density is starting to really show.

It will go quickly.

The good thing is that there is a very distinct spine of activity that has developed. It's the L from 13th and Walker over to 10th/Broadway via the 10th/Walker roundabout, and it will hopefully be a complete street wall before the Street Car is running. Turnaround time for FH/DB was about 15 months from Design review to completion. Hopefully though there are more projects announced that take about 21 months to complete because they're 5 to 8 stories (pushing it, I know). I especially hope that there is a push toward lot development rather than block development in Midtown. FH/DB was excellent mid-block development, but there's no reason that there couldn't have been 2 or even 3 developments in that amount of space.

Could you imagine if the Classen diagonal extension had been built as originally promised to voters? Midtown would be by far our best district. Way more advanced placemaking opportunities than even Deep Deuce.

Could you imagine if the Classen diagonal extension had been built as originally promised to voters? Midtown would be by far our best district. Way more advanced placemaking opportunities than even Deep Deuce.

No need for the diagonal extension to be built by the city…the property owners, if they were intelligent, would create the diagonal extension in the form of a pedestrian walk way… Nobody says you have to build a square building with parking…The great thing about development in an area like Midtown, is you know the people will be there, and you have a relatively blank slate to build something that can't help but be successful.

In fact, better that the city didn't do it, so there's at least the CHANCE that it becomes a pedestrian only avenue.

And then can you imagine if OCU put a park on the westside of the old HS building…the block to the south of OCU would become some of the most prime Real Estate in downtown because it could be the connection between the Memorial and 10th/Walker retail/restaurant hub.

The important thing now is good quality development along 10th between Walker and Harvey on both sides. The neighborhood is really coming together closer to Broadway with some of the best placemaking in the city along the corridor from Parkards to Broadway 10. West of there is pretty much a clean slate but whatever gets built will make or break the district. I almost think it would be cool to have smaller developments on the southside of 10th, similar to campus corner in Norman. The Downtown Auto Repair building and the boarded up building next to it could be integrated in somehow. It would be also great for development to somehow connect down to Midtown Plaza, which in my opinion is pretty cool. I think 10th should be a priority though with infill and placemaking starting there and then spreading out.

Realistically, how soon can we expect the district to reach critical mass? After that, how long until it is built out? 5 years? 10 years? 20?

no need for the diagonal extension to be built by the city…the property owners, if they were intelligent, would create the diagonal extension in the form of a pedestrian walk way… nobody says you have to build a square building with parking…the great thing about development in an area like midtown, is you know the people will be there, and you have a relatively blank slate to build something that can't help but be successful.

In fact, better that the city didn't do it, so there's at least the chance that it becomes a pedestrian only avenue.

And then can you imagine if ocu put a park on the westside of the old hs building…the block to the south of ocu would become some of the most prime real estate in downtown because it could be the connection between the memorial and 10th/walker retail/restaurant hub.

"like!"

It will go quickly.
I especially hope that there is a push toward lot development rather than block development in Midtown. FH/DB was excellent mid-block development, but there's no reason that there couldn't have been 2 or even 3 developments in that amount of space.

I completely agree with the idea of lot development in the place of block developments. Future block single developments should not be encourage and hopefully not allowed in Midtown. It is evident that The Edge is way out of scale to the Midtown area.

I completely agree with the idea of lot development in the place of block developments. Future block single developments should not be encourage and hopefully not allowed in Midtown. It is evident that The Edge is way out of scale to the Midtown area.

I think it appears out of scale BECAUSE of the vacancy present in Midtown. Once the area has reached full density, I would bet that Edge and Lift will fit in much more appropriately. As long as they aren't the status-quo for new development in the area, that is. For example, you've got both the smaller Classen Commons and The Walker Building being built next to the Edge, so I would think they"ll help break up the massive scale that The Edge imposes onto the neighborhood.

I totally agree though that 1- 3 of these style of developments is all Midtown should want or need. The rest could be brought down to a more human scale through said "lot development".

Oklahoma City flea market launch to coincide with H&8th festivals | News OK (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-flea-market-launch-to-coincide-with-h8th-festivals/article/5392434)

2/8/2015
Not sure why this has not been renovated with the church.
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8640/16478685152_813f4183a7_c.jpg

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8682/16014104796_726e6da405_b.jpg

I helped Frontline moved into the old First Christian Church building 3-4 years ago and documented everything I saw, inside and out. I walked all through that building which is the educational building. It's so far gone and they didn't have the money when they bought the main building. They were saving it for a future project. Copper thieves had long since broken into that building to access the main sanctuary to strip it of any original materials. The educational building has pigeon droppings on every square inch of the floor on every level and had most of the windows broken or missing. There were also dead ones and evidence that a hawk had been feeding on them. Just a total mess. There are several basketball courts on different floors and plenty of graffiti. Check out this album:

Frontline Downtown-FCC Photos by UnFrSaKn | Photobucket (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/UnFrSaKn/library/Downtown%20OKC/Frontline%20Downtown-FCC)

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/Frontline%20Downtown-FCC/IMG_0300.jpg

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8682/16014104796_726e6da405_b.jpg

I helped Frontline moved into the old First Christian Church building 3-4 years ago and documented everything I saw, inside and out. I walked all through that building which is the educational building. It's so far gone and they didn't have the money when they bought the main building. They were saving it for a future project. Copper thieves had long since broken into that building to access the main sanctuary to strip it of any original materials. The educational building has pigeon droppings on every square inch of the floor on every level and had most of the windows broken or missing. There were also dead ones and evidence that a hawk had been feeding on them. Just a total mess. There are several basketball courts on different floors and plenty of graffiti. Check out this album:

Frontline Downtown-FCC Photos by UnFrSaKn | Photobucket (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/UnFrSaKn/library/Downtown%20OKC/Frontline%20Downtown-FCC)

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/Frontline%20Downtown-FCC/IMG_0300.jpgthank you. Great album and sad to see it in such disrepair like that. Hopefully they can get the funds together one day. Heck, if I had the money, I'd give them what it took to renovate it.

No need for the diagonal extension to be built by the city…the property owners, if they were intelligent, would create the diagonal extension in the form of a pedestrian walk way… Nobody says you have to build a square building with parking…The great thing about development in an area like Midtown, is you know the people will be there, and you have a relatively blank slate to build something that can't help but be successful.

In fact, better that the city didn't do it, so there's at least the CHANCE that it becomes a pedestrian only avenue.

And then can you imagine if OCU put a park on the westside of the old HS building…the block to the south of OCU would become some of the most prime Real Estate in downtown because it could be the connection between the Memorial and 10th/Walker retail/restaurant hub.

Wow, cool idea. How do we make this happen?

Can anybody attest to the ownership of the lots? Is it all Midtown Renaissance? Is there a way to talk to the owners and present the basic idea?

I like this idea but how would we make it happen with it going through the industrial property?

10175

Buy the industrial property and raze it. There's a nice looking brick building on Harvey that probably ought to be salvaged, but everything else is not development you want in your potentially premiere urban district.

The shopping and restaurant potential is insanely high

http://www.travel-pictures-gallery.com/images/austria/salzburg/salzburg-0025.jpg

Buy the industrial property and raze it. There's a nice looking brick building on Harvey that probably ought to be salvaged, but everything else is not development you want in your potentially premiere urban district.

The shopping and restaurant potential is insanely high

Well... I agree about the potential and love the idea in general. But the industrial company is the one that owns the Tamashi Ramen building (and maybe jerky.com?) as well, so they are also positively contributing to the community. Hate to just kick them out. Although if we did it as a slow progression over the next decade starting at the circle and moving SE, maybe by the time we reached the industrial site they'd see the market value opportunity of the property and move it themselves and everybody wins...

No reason they couldn't work with Midtown Renaissance (who I believe owns - via St. Anthony - the block that GoGo Sushi sits on) on a plan for the next 3 years. Construction on that block would come first and they would have a space for any current business on the other block.

Also, the path doesn't have to be a straight line…it can curve a bit to accommodate existing structures (if those structures are truly worth saving). But you can believe that it's a well defined pedestrian walk way, people will walk it.

Agreed. I know I would (walk it).

At the bare minimum, do the first section, then let the market dictate when it's worthwhile to extend it.

Midtown in the distance

2/12/2015

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7314/16326187338_3aebf47c8a_c.jpg

I didn't know North West Expressway was considered Midtown....
I know it's not, but am I wrong in saying this used to be Tiffany apartments?
10215

I didn't know they had renamed that building, which was always known as Lakeshore Tower.

In my experience there is a non-trivial swath of people that almost never visit downtown so their concept of what "midtown" (and even downtown) means is very amorphous... had an unintentional argument with someone once because we were both using the term midtown but neither of us meant the same thing, at all. In fact, our conceptual boundaries didn't even overlap. When I told him what I meant he was like "oh, well that's DOWNtown, not MIDtown". He considered all the way up to 23rd "downtown" incidentally.

^Same thing happened with me the other day too. My boss said he was moving and that he wanted to move into Level Apartments, but he said his roommate wanted to live more in midtown. I said "oh well Midtown is still pretty close to downtown" and he said "not really, I don't want to live next to Penn Square"
*face palm. Left it at that haha

MidTown is a neighborhood of Downtown OKC, midtown Oklahoma City would be near the Penn Square and NWX area.

We adopted a name for a downtown district but really midtown would be further away from downtown than we have it in most other major cities.

No no no. Midtown, regardless of cheesy capitalization and whatnot (that most people don't use), is NW 10th.

There is no well-known identity for mid-city OKC, unfortunately. I think that there should be. I've always been a big fan of creating a CDC like maybe a "Mid-City Neighborhood Development Corporation" that focuses on streetscapes and catalytic urban design for the area around Chesapeake, Penn Square, Classen Curve, Nichols Hills, et al. If we create better connections around that area (right now the NWX/Classen/I-44 urban planning cluster is a big impediment) then OKC would have a pretty decent "Galleria" type area that can provide another viable urban environment for the market.

No no no. Midtown, regardless of cheesy capitalization and whatnot (that most people don't use), is NW 10th.

There is no well-known identity for mid-city OKC, unfortunately. I think that there should be. I've always been a big fan of creating a CDC like maybe a "Mid-City Neighborhood Development Corporation" that focuses on streetscapes and catalytic urban design for the area around Chesapeake, Penn Square, Classen Curve, Nichols Hills, et al. If we create better connections around that area (right now the NWX/Classen/I-44 urban planning cluster is a big impediment) then OKC would have a pretty decent "Galleria" type area that can provide another viable urban environment for the market.

I agree with this completely. I would love it if the area around Glimcher and the Chesapeake campus would see streetscape improvements to help give the neighborhood an identity. Western in that area is in embarrassingly bad shape. My car suffered a bent rim the other night on Western because I hit a huge pothole.

There needs to be a stronger East/West link between Penn Square and Chesapeake. Really, it's the Belle Isle redevelopment fail that is holding the entire mid-city region behind. Choppy/spikey land use, with good real estate separated by gulfs of crap. A CDC that could leverage some public and private funds to fill in the gaps could create a ton of value for everyone.

I think this region of OKC is by far the coolest urban area in the state. I've lately become obsessed with mid-century modern, which no other area in the state can match. Midtown Tulsa's architectural gems are much more visible, while a lot of OKC's quirky architectural assets are hidden like Mosteller, Hipster Triangle, NW 59th Terrace, Meadowbrook, Founders Tower/entire campus, etc. The entire NW 63rd corridor has a ton of potential, too.

Pete - maybe split these posts into a new thread? Sorry for changing the topic of this thread..

There needs to be a stronger East/West link between Penn Square and Chesapeake. Really, it's the Belle Isle redevelopment fail that is holding the entire mid-city region behind.

I agree. If it would have been built as the lifestyle center that it was originally proposed to be, it would have really strengthened the connection between Penn Square and Nichols Hills. As is though, its a barrier.

A few drone pics from this afternoon taken from Midtown....

1024710248102491025010251102521025310254

Wow, there is such a stark difference between each corner of Midtown. Harvey & 9th is still the epicenter of abandonment, you can even see the ghosts of foundations and curb cuts. We don't think about it anymore, but the bombing's impact on this area of downtown is still breathtaking.

Nice images Brian. Thanks for sharing.

Btw Brian - your aerials are phenomenal. Do you have a site where you market them, or do you just do this on a consulting basis for developers and/or Pete?

Btw Brian - your aerials are phenomenal. Do you have a site where you market them, or do you just do this on a consulting basis for developers and/or Pete?

Thanks! Glad to share. Per FAA overreach, this is purely a hobby at the moment. That said, I very much want to keep up with the technology and forthcoming requirements so that I can commercialize as soon as legally viable. I will be going out of state in the near future to attend some college/tech classes on drone technology and I'm working with some people locally who have been doing this for awhile with much larger drones that can carry up to a 10 pound payload. They've been great at directing me on getting started and where to go next and they've proposed a business concept they'd like to do with me. I've told Pete I'm happy to consider a list of shots that would be of general interest to the forum if he wants to come up with one. If I also find the locations interesting then I'll give it a try.

I'm actually putting up for sale this initial drone so that I can go ahead and order a larger and quite a bit more expensive one.

OKCTalk - Entire Midtown block to get makeover (http://www.okctalk.com/content/122-midtown-block.html)

Ha ha there was an ad for Kegerators at the bottom of my screen in that link.

Looks like its getting the Santa Fe garage treatment.

OKCTalk - Entire Midtown block to get makeover (http://www.okctalk.com/content/122-midtown-block.html)

Not sure I like this proposal. Usually remodeling older architecture bones to blend with modern doesn't go well, and ends up going back to original decades later. I'd rather then remove some landscaping that encourages better street interactions, put new paint where needed, and amenity upgrades. If they want to gut the interior to modern standards that's cool, but messing with the architectural lines of the outside doesn't seem like a bold move for the hospital and it's subsidiaries. I also extremely dislike that they're "modernizing" the beautiful gem of a mid-century architecture on the small parking garage. I love the gold 70's look. I think it's the only example of that era that we have left in our urban core other than Gold Dome and The Classen. Tulsa has tons of it (i.e. Oral Roberts University and several other places downtown).

Will be interesting to see what the Downtown Design Review Committee has to say and how the architect/owner may respond.

I agree, the mid-century stuff is important and can be quite cool.

I didn't know North West Expressway was considered Midtown....
I know it's not, but am I wrong in saying this used to be Tiffany apartments?
10215


I didn't know they had renamed that building, which was always known as Lakeshore Tower.

This was renamed a year or so ago, and no it's NOT Midtown.


MidTown is a neighborhood of Downtown OKC, midtown Oklahoma City would be near the Penn Square and NWX area.

We adopted a name for a downtown district but really midtown would be further away from downtown than we have it in most other major cities.
Not true, MidTown, Midtown or however you want to spell it has always historically been the area we refer to now, it isn't a modern phenomenon. Historically speaking it was always Midtown and 23rd was considered Uptown. Keep in mind most of the modern "mid portion" of the City, was farmland decades ago, NW Expressway used to be old dirt farm roads. Yes in larger, more dense cities, "MidTown" or "Mid City" is further out, but historically speaking that was not the case in OKC.


No no no. Midtown, regardless of cheesy capitalization and whatnot (that most people don't use), is NW 10th.

There is no well-known identity for mid-city OKC, unfortunately. I think that there should be. I've always been a big fan of creating a CDC like maybe a "Mid-City Neighborhood Development Corporation" that focuses on streetscapes and catalytic urban design for the area around Chesapeake, Penn Square, Classen Curve, Nichols Hills, et al. If we create better connections around that area (right now the NWX/Classen/I-44 urban planning cluster is a big impediment) then OKC would have a pretty decent "Galleria" type area that can provide another viable urban environment for the market.

Agree with Spartan, our "mid City" never had a true identity both historically or even currently sadly enough. I agree that there should be an area of town we refer to as Mid City or "Inner Loop" but that never has been the case. I think identities as such happens organically over time, and the more population a city has, the more it happens organically. Keep in mind citizens decades ago were used to going downtown or inner core for almost all services so they were more educated or more "conditioned" to urban principles, we had decades worth of sprawl and over time that was taught out of the majority of the population. The modern revival is going back to the old roots.