I really wasn't just seeking praise... I wanted to know if this sort of project was worth my time.

Wouldn't be the first time I poured days and money into something that nobody else cared about (see aerials from 1969 and Oklahoma Journal archives).

Oh that is excellent, it really brings together all of the great developments in this area.

I really wasn't just seeking praise... I wanted to know if this sort of project was worth my time.

Wouldn't be the first time I poured days and money into something that nobody else cared about (see aerials from 1969 and Oklahoma Journal archives).

I like those.

BTW, I just added up all the projects shown in the article and it came to over $250 million just in construction expenditures.

...Next up -- to show Urbanized we aren't neglecting his favorite district -- Bricktown.
Haha not my favorite district, many would be surprised to learn. Probably not even my second, maybe not even my third! I'm just the idiot who tries to fix it when someone is WRONG on the Internet. And when it comes to Bricktown, that's pretty often... ;)

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png

BTW, I just added up all the projects shown in the article and it came to over $250 million just in construction expenditures.

Pretty nuts that someone just a few days ago suggested that the core of OKC was slowing down. I actually think we are entering into a new phase of growth.

I really wasn't just seeking praise... I wanted to know if this sort of project was worth my time.

Wouldn't be the first time I poured days and money into something that nobody else cared about (see aerials from 1969 and Oklahoma Journal archives).Hey man, those were great. I used some in a class project and cited OKCTalk as the source and the professor asked me about it and I showed him and he told me he created an account here. He also shared this website with the class and a bunch of people liked it. So it isn't a waste.

Seriously Pete, this is great stuff. Sometimes it is hard to mentally define certain areas of our city despite having names for each (Midtown, AA, Film Row, Deep Duece, Bricktown, ect..). This really helps with that, and this is just a side effect. The main purpose & importance in you doing this is showing all the amazing developments that are going on in certain parts of our city. Not only is this fun to look at, I think it could be really helpful in letting other developers make decisions on if & where they would invest. This is really an amazing tool.

I fully encourage & support you in doing this for all of our districts. I'm sure all of the OKCtalk community would oblige with helping if you gave us specific instruction.

So awesome Pete!

Here is a quick one for Bricktown.

Will do the CBD, Film Row, Deep Deuce / Auto Alley, and 23rd.

Then maybe the Plaza, River and whatever else.

Nm.

Nice work!

Seriously Pete, this is great stuff. Sometimes it is hard to mentally define certain areas of our city despite having names for each (Midtown, AA, Film Row, Deep Duece, Bricktown, ect..). This really helps with that, and this is just a side effect...

I agree, but I will also point out that a significant portion of the items in the "Midtown" map above are actually in Automobile Alley by definition, not Midtown (Buick, Pontiac, Marion, Metropolitan). And of course the GE Research Center is in neither. I'm supposing Pete included them because they are developments connected to major Midtown players, and because they help provide context.

I agree, but I will also point out that a significant portion of the items in the "Midtown" map above are actually in Automobile Alley by definition, not Midtown (Buick, Pontiac, Marion, Metropolitan). And of course the GE Research Center is in neither. I'm supposing Pete included them because they are developments connected to major Midtown players, and because they help provide context.

I lumped them all together because of the strong clustering on and around 10th, which seems to be the biggest driving force in that area of town.

Also, the horizontal orientation is best for maps and summaries. :)

I lumped them all together because of the strong clustering on and around 10th, which seems to be the biggest driving force in that area of town.

Also, the horizontal orientation is best for maps and summaries. :)

You will need to add Ludivine's new restaurant that is going in on 10th street.

You will need to add Ludivine's new restaurant that is going in on 10th street.

It's on there: R&J Lounge and Supper Club .

Not sure if this has been announced, but Jerky.com is going in across from Elemental Coffee. It is well under construction.

8447

Alpaca Jerkey? Now I know what they use those for over off the Kilpatrick Turnpike & NW 50th...

Not sure if this has been announced, but Jerky.com is going in across from Elemental Coffee. It is well under construction.

8447

Nice.. a few weeks ago was talking a walk around that area with a friend that live in the guardian.. I passed that building and said " that needs some love and will be a great little shop.. "

I continue to update this summary.

Although this is listed as Midtown I've labeled the map to show that it also covers parts of Automobile Alley and SoSA.

The lot directly across from Fassler Hall now has chainlink. Is this the new staging area since Bleu Garten is well under way?

The lot directly across from Fassler Hall now has chainlink. Is this the new staging area since Bleu Garten is well under way?

Construction staging for St. Anthony expansion project.

This map at the top is amazing. Amazing how many things are going on.

Steve's weekly video update focuses on Midtown.

NewsOK Videos (http://newsok.com/okc-central-weekly-update-by-steve-lackmeyer/multimedia/video/3767478647001)

Not sure if this is considered Midtown or Uptown, but there are rows and rows of traffic cones all along Classen Blvd between 13th street and 23rd street.
Anyone know if this part of Classen is about to be resurfaced? .... and if so will the city be adding new sidewalks and crosswalks in this area?

Midtown in middle of a renaissance | Oklahoma City - OKC - KOCO.com (http://www.koco.com/news/midtown-in-middle-of-a-renaissance/30148814)

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7526/16039883945_c269634239_b.jpg

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8566/16037926331_9420077816_b.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7513/15417604764_6131ff9bca_b.jpg

Interesting comments by Steve regarding a problem with parking at Brown's Bakery after hours.
A Twitter Case Study in Midtown | News OK (http://newsok.com/a-twitter-case-study-in-midtown/article/5381852)

If you park in the parking lot of a business and do not patronize said business but instead spend the entire evening at the business next door, of course you will get towed. Why is this a “thing” that the OKC twitterclique is all up in arms about? Welcome to the Big Leagues, OKC, where you can't just park your car anywhere you darn well please...

If you park in the parking lot of a business and do not patronize said business but instead spend the entire evening at the business next door, of course you will get towed. Why is this a “thing” that the OKC twitterclique is all up in arms about? Welcome to the Big Leagues, OKC, where you can't just park your car anywhere you darn well please...

I can see that argument if the business was open and you were taking parking away from their patrons, but Brown's Bakery closes at 3pm, Monday through Friday and noon on Saturday. Why can't people park there in the evenings when they are not open?

The better question is why hasn't Brown's worked this out with the Midtown businesses?


One reason is that towing companies often offer their services while kicking back a good amount to the property owners. Typically, a towing company charges the car owner hundreds of dollars.

Some quick math tells you that if 10 cars are towed, both the towing company and the property owner makes thousands in just one night.

No way the Fassler / Dust Bowl / McNellie's is going to pay that kind of money.

As long as there are signs warning people that they may be towed if they park there, I don't see an issue. Now if they were towing without warning, that would be a big issue in my opinion. I am pretty sure this has come about due to increasing trash and litter in the parking lot as Midtown has become more popular as a destination.

If you park in the parking lot of a business and do not patronize said business but instead spend the entire evening at the business next door, of course you will get towed. Why is this a “thing” that the OKC twitterclique is all up in arms about? Welcome to the Big Leagues, OKC, where you can't just park your car anywhere you darn well please...

+1

All parking should be open to the public during non-business hours. If the property owner wants to make a few extra dollars then they can post a parking attendant or install a pay station. There is no bigger waster of resources than to have 10,000 surface parking spaces not be used on evening and weekends.

All parking should be open to the public during non-business hours. If the property owner wants to make a few extra dollars then they can post a parking attendant or install a pay station. There is no bigger waster of resources than to have 10,000 surface parking spaces not be used on evening and weekends.

I love this idea.

All parking should be open to the public during non-business hours. If the property owner wants to make a few extra dollars then they can post a parking attendant or install a pay station. There is no bigger waster of resources than to have 10,000 surface parking spaces not be used on evening and weekends.

Absolutely wrong! I have no duty to provide parking to anyone except my own customers. I especially have no duty or responsibility to provide a spot for people to leave their trash, pee on the bushes, or vomit when they come out of somebody else's business intoxicated. Businesses have a responsibility to their own customers to provide access and parking. They should be paying to rent those spaces and providing clean up if they don't have adequate resources. What next....I should provide public bathrooms for non customers?

You can't force Brown's to let people park there at night but I'm sure the McNellie's and MidtownR groups would be happy to pay them a bit of money to make that happen.

So, again, the question is: Why hasn't a deal been struck?

All parking should be open to the public during non-business hours. If the property owner wants to make a few extra dollars then they can post a parking attendant or install a pay station. There is no bigger waster of resources than to have 10,000 surface parking spaces not be used on evening and weekends.Should I be worried if you were ever to become supreme leader of OKC?

Absolutely wrong! I have no duty to provide parking to anyone except my own customers. I especially have no duty or responsibility to provide a spot for people to leave their trash, pee on the bushes, or vomit when they come out of somebody else's business intoxicated. Businesses have a responsibility to their own customers to provide access and parking. They should be paying to rent those spaces and providing clean up if they don't have adequate resources. What next....I should provide public bathrooms for non customers?+1

Absolutely wrong! I have no duty to provide parking to anyone except my own customers. I especially have no duty or responsibility to provide a spot for people to leave their trash, pee on the bushes, or vomit when they come out of somebody else's business intoxicated. Businesses have a responsibility to their own customers to provide access and parking. They should be paying to rent those spaces and providing clean up if they don't have adequate resources. What next....I should provide public bathrooms for non customers?

:congrats::congrats::congrats:

This guy JTF, wants to tell EVERYBODY what to do with property and resources that aren't his. What have you done for this town/city/OKC, sir? Your holier-than-thou attitude and opinions are obnoxious and completely take away from the (very few recently) good things you do say and or suggest. Bravo to you Jeep for protecting your property/ assets, and making sure you're taking care of what you need to.

:congrats::congrats::congrats:

This guy JTF, wants to tell EVERYBODY what to do with property and resources that aren't his. What have you done for this town/city/OKC, sir?

He memorized the right books and watched the right TED talks on youtube and then posted about it a lot?

Y'all are climbing all over JTF as if he said it should be state law that you turn over your parking lot after business hours. That's not what he said. He said should, like in an ideal world, and I agree. Ideally, we would build more buildings and businesses and attract more people to a district like Midtown and build or dedicate less space to parking. Ideally, the same space would be used by numerous people visiting numerous places in the district to do business. Ideally, the lot owner would be compensated equitably either by collecting a fee from individual "parkers", a business association, or neighboring businesses with parking deficits, and ideally, the compensation would allow for maintaining cleanliness. It's just the best thing for everybody involved.

Y'all are climbing all over JTF as if he said it should be state law that you turn over your parking lot after business hours. That's not what he said. He said should, like in an ideal world, and I agree. Ideally, we would build more buildings and businesses and attract more people to a district like Midtown and build or dedicate less space to parking. Ideally, the same space would be used by numerous people visiting numerous places in the district to do business. Ideally, the lot owner would be compensated equitably either by collecting a fee from individual "parkers", a business association, or neighboring businesses with parking deficits, and ideally, the compensation would allow for maintaining cleanliness. It's just the best thing for everybody involved.

This. Jump on JTF when he deserves it, not when he is speaking sense.

Yeah, my god. Hes just saying it should be that way that businesses share their small amount of parkin . Since one business usually does most of their business at night and one during the day it would make the most urban sense for them to share parking and increase the available space for devlopment.

I'm with jeep on this one. While a business can choose to look the other way, or even make money on their space in the evening, that whole aspect of it being their space means well, it's their space.

That cannot possibly be the end of the argument. Property rights are not all inclusive of anything an owner wants to do, especially when we're talking about property in the middle of a city.

That cannot possibly be the end of the argument. Property rights are not all inclusive of anything an owner wants to do, especially when we're talking about property in the middle of a city.

Where does it stop? You want to open up a business next door but don't have bathrooms. I don't use mine at night so should I be forced to let the other business' patrons use my bathroom. What about if you have an apartment in New York where space is at premium and you work days....I work nights should you have to let me sleep there in day because it isn't being used. We are crossing a line from codes where my property rights are curtailed as where my property doesn't affect another's property or area to having my property rights taken away for the betterment of someone else's property. This is pure socialism. The capitalistic market will take care of it. If Fassler Hall and McNellies want to have people continue to see them, they will find a parking solution for their patrons whether it be negotiating a lease with Browns or finding another solution.

Couple of things to consider. McNellies has basically built three very large venues and are on both sides of Browns. Did they not have enough forethought to consider parking for their customers. Should they have bought more land or built a smaller structure so they could have added a parking garage in the back? It may not have been an issue when it was just McNellies but how full is there parking lot getting at night? Browns opens a 5 am so it is reasonable that at least a couple of the bakers are getting to work either before or when the bars are closing. How would you like to own a piece of property and can't even find a parking spot because of the business next door. Doesn't the building McNellies is in have parking decks on the back side? Are they being used? There is a lot of land in that area as well as several large lots that the McNellies group can look at for parking so they have lots of options. This lot is the prime space as it is directly between the venues but it isn't theirs so they don't get to have it (Grosse Pointe Blank reference).

I just don't think he was saying that law should enforce everybody has to share their personal parking. I just think he is saying in the perfect world the community of business owners of a district would come together for the betterment of the entire district & would optimize the potential of the district by sharing parking.

How many of you guys have gone to bricktown & parked in bass pros parking? Or gone to uptown & parked in front of a business that you didn't end up going to? It happens ALL the time. Nobody is saying it should be law or you should be FORCED to do something. It would just be in the better interest of the entire district if parking could become available for all patrons (as long as it wasn't a detriment to one or multiple specific businesses). That is how districts usually work right? They usually become one entity (as far as the consumer goes) even though they are ran by multiple persons. By isolating yourself from the district it can create rifs & lead to bad developments. Just take a look at what is happening in uptown right now....

If Brown's Bakery is so interested in the success of Midtown, why hasn't this issue been resolved without them resorting to towing cars and causing bad blood?

It's hard to believe that the MidtownR people and Elliot Nelson wouldn't be happy to compensate them fairly.

Where does it stop? You want to open up a business next door but don't have bathrooms. I don't use mine at night so should I be forced to let the other business' patrons use my bathroom. What about if you have an apartment in New York where space is at premium and you work days....I work nights should you have to let me sleep there in day because it isn't being used. We are crossing a line from codes where my property rights are curtailed as where my property doesn't affect another's property or area to having my property rights taken away for the betterment of someone else's property. This is pure socialism. The capitalistic market will take care of it. If Fassler Hall and McNellies want to have people continue to see them, they will find a parking solution for their patrons whether it be negotiating a lease with Browns or finding another solution.

Couple of things to consider. McNellies has basically built three very large venues and are on both sides of Browns. Did they not have enough forethought to consider parking for their customers. Should they have bought more land or built a smaller structure so they could have added a parking garage in the back? It may not have been an issue when it was just McNellies but how full is there parking lot getting at night? Browns opens a 5 am so it is reasonable that at least a couple of the bakers are getting to work either before or when the bars are closing. How would you like to own a piece of property and can't even find a parking spot because of the business next door. Doesn't the building McNellies is in have parking decks on the back side? Are they being used? There is a lot of land in that area as well as several large lots that the McNellies group can look at for parking so they have lots of options. This lot is the prime space as it is directly between the venues but it isn't theirs so they don't get to have it (Grosse Pointe Blank reference).

There's a difference between letting people use your parking and letting them use your bathroom and bed, and you know it. Also, stop invoking "socialism" as if it's a dirty word that makes your argument for you.

Do you really think there aren't codes already in place that take away your property rights taken away for the betterment of someone else's property?

OKC Code Enforcement (https://www.okc.gov/neighborhood/code/enforce.html)
Norman Code Compliance (http://www.normanok.gov/planning/code-compliance-types-complaints)

For example, from the OKC listing:


Graffiti

It is against City Ordinance to allow Graffiti to remain on the premises. Property owners are responsible for removing graffiti.

Ordinance - Chapter 35-Section 147

Why do we have no right to have graffiti on our buildings? Clearly socialist and terrible since it has no bearing except on the neighborhood property values. Who cares about other people's property, after all.


Inoperable Vehicle

This covers vehicles anywhere on the property, including driveways. Examples include, but are not limited to: wrecked cars, vehicles that are all or partially dismantled and even vehicles with flat (or no) tires.

Ordinance - Chapter 35-Section 37

Why the heck do I have no right to leave a car up on blocks in my front yard? Those socialists!

If Brown's Bakery is so interested in the success of Midtown, why hasn't this issue been resolved without them resorting to towing cars and causing bad blood?

It's hard to believe that the MidtownR people and Elliot Nelson wouldn't be happy to compensate them fairly.

Could it be that there is enough parking in the area that they don't need to pay for parking for patrons. Browns isn't the only lot...it is just the most convenient.

There's a difference between letting people use your parking and letting them use your bathroom and bed, and you know it. Also, stop invoking "socialism" as if it's a dirty word that makes your argument for you.

Do you really think there aren't codes already in place that take away your property rights taken away for the betterment of someone else's property?

OKC Code Enforcement (https://www.okc.gov/neighborhood/code/enforce.html)
Norman Code Compliance (http://www.normanok.gov/planning/code-compliance-types-complaints)

For example, from the OKC listing:



Why do we have no right to have graffiti on our buildings? Clearly socialist and terrible since it has no bearing except on the neighborhood property values. Who cares about other people's property, after all.



Why the heck do I have no right to leave a car up on blocks in my front yard? Those socialists!

You want to take my property away during certain hours and give to someone else to use...how is that not socialism? There is a difference between code enforcement and taking away property and you know it. Telling me I have to keep my property clean and graffiti free is different than taking my property and letting another private person use it just because I am not using it at that moment.

You want to take my property away during certain hours and give to someone else to use...how is that not socialism? There is a difference between code enforcement and taking away property and you know it. Telling me I have to keep my property clean and graffiti free is different than taking my property and letting another private person use it just because I am not using it at that moment.

Again, socialism is not a dirty word that automatically wins the argument. Maybe it is socialism, and maybe that's not a bad thing.

+1

I can't believe you liked this, and then criticize Edmond when they won't approve a zoning for a new business that doesn't provide sufficient parking for their customers.

I guess Brown's could solve this by putting up gates they close that block the parking lot entrances after hours....

I'm trusting Steve's account that Brown's gave plenty of notice, and is having to deal with trash and destruction of their parking lot, since I don't have any information to the contrary. Yeah, it would be great if Brown's could work some deal out to share the lot. But why is the onus on them to create that arrangement? Has any effort been made by the other midtown businesses to make some sort of agreement?

If Brown's Bakery is so interested in the success of Midtown, why hasn't this issue been resolved without them resorting to towing cars and causing bad blood?

It's hard to believe that the MidtownR people and Elliot Nelson wouldn't be happy to compensate them fairly.

The Brown's have lost two family members in the last year and they are not some chain with a CEO. They are a family with a small business in an aging building. MidtownR would probably rather they get the heck out of dodge so they can put something else in this location. They probably want to tear down that building. So I bet this was the Brown Families' only option. If they are making some money off of parking, isn't that helping a Midtown business?

I guess Brown's could solve this by putting up gates they close that block the parking lot entrances after hours....

I'm trusting Steve's account that Brown's gave plenty of notice, and is having to deal with trash and destruction of their parking lot, since I don't have any information to the contrary. Yeah, it would be great if Brown's could work some deal out to share the lot. But why is the onus on them to create that arrangement? Has any effort been made by the other midtown businesses to make some sort of agreement?

They have signs up at both entrances. There are also two reserved spots for car sharing vehicles that have towing notices if someone parks in those spots. This doesn't keep people from parking there. If you do not heed the warnings, you deserved to get towed. Why isn't the discussion about the giant bar with no parking at all?

The Brown's have lost two family members in the last year and they are not some chain with a CEO. They are a family with a small business in an aging building. MidtownR would probably rather they get the heck out of dodge so they can put something else in this location. They probably want to tear down that building. So I bet this was the Brown Families' only option. If they are making some money off of parking, isn't that helping a Midtown business?

Brown's has been in disrepair for a long time and in fact were reported for code violations several years ago; broken windows, graffiti, etc.

This has been going on for a long time before their recent family tragedies.

Brown's has been in disrepair for a long time and in fact were reported for code violations several years ago; broken windows, graffiti, etc.

This has been going on for a long time before their recent family tragedies.

Understood. Recently they gave their inside area a make over. With increased money from parking fees, maybe we might see them update the outside as well. I guess I am showing my optimism that this will all work out.

Again, socialism is not a dirty word that automatically wins the argument. Maybe it is socialism, and maybe that's not a bad thing.

You pick out one word out of 72 and say that I am using it to win argument. it isn't about winning an argument. I have never used the word "socialism" as a bad thing but to accurately describe what people are wanting to do. These are theories and there are good arguments for and against. However, we live in a capitalistic society and have a right to not have our property taken without just compensation. Maybe that's not a bad thing either. If there is a need for parking or people want convenience of parking close...they can pay for it. Happens everytime there is a Thunder game. People that want to park for free will park further away and walk. Free market. I would be willing to bet that if Browns started charging for parking....the lot would mostly be empty as there are plenty of spots to park in the surrounding area and streets. No one is entitled to free convenient parking.