Really exciting. I've driven by recently, and was shocked by how quickly the demo happened.

The antique store is moving to Automobile Alley (old Bicycle Alley location). I believe they are temporarily locating in the Hart building on Film Row.

Oops. Just found the website. Nice!

Drove by Hart last night, and most of their stuff is in the building, though I don't think they are operating out of there yet. And again, it's temporary until the old Bicycle Alley is redone, according to the owner, who I know.

That will be really cool and just add to the diversity of Automobile Alley. I can see people wanting to drive in and have a cup of coffee next door before or after they peruse the antique store and Rawhide.

Someone has either bought or rented the old Habitat for Humanity building on 10th and Broadway. I noticed the for sale sign is gone, the Habitat sign is gone and it looked like they were laying carpet.

I hate when people here do this but I can't resist. LOL

Please check out this thread.

http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=20175&page=26

But I actually know that posters can't go through everything before thinking about starting a new thread.

With all due respect, that is a catch-all thread for everything in Mid-town. I don't see why the project doesn't get its own thread..or why everything in Mid-town has to have just one thread.

With all due respect, that is a catch-all thread for everything in Mid-town. I don't see why the project doesn't get its own thread..or why everything in Mid-town has to have just one thread.

With all due respect, Spartan, my comment was with tongue in cheek. I thought I indicated that. I have no objection to one thread on this specific subject.

This is an application by Midtown Renaissance to close Park Place between the Packard and the Guardian. On page 4, it has a nice looking concept for what could be done. Also on Item B-2 on the first page it implies that the Guardian is no longer intended for residential.

http://www.okc.gov/planning/planning_library/drc/CE807.pdf

No prob, my objection is just to that thread you linked to...lol

This is an application by Midtown Renaissance to close Park Place between the Packard and the Guardian. On page 4, it has a nice looking concept for what could be done. Also on Item B-2 on the first page it implies that the Guardian is no longer intended for residential.

http://www.okc.gov/planning/planning_library/drc/CE807.pdf

Awesome, I wonder if this is in anticipation of TOD? Because it looks like an upgrade in the plans for this building.. still hoping for Full Circle in the Packard though. I know I'm like a broken record on that, but that building just screams bookstore and the location would be amazing for their clientele.

Perhaps a compromise would be to rename the thread with a proper title, such as the name of the apartments.

Yeah, I would love to have Full Circle in there. All I've ever heard about the Packard the last 6 months is that the building is finished and they've got a tenant lined up, but it's obviously still empty. I thought someone would jump on the opportunity to lease space there.

Good point about TOD; I hope the parking lot directly south of the Packard could be filled in with some nice development.

FYI, they do have tenants lined up for the Packard, and have been building out the space for awhile now. One of them is a restaurant.

I don't think the building in your pic and what's in those plans is one and the same. Referring to post #643 of this thread ;-)

That is the correct building, I assure you.

The application to the Downtown Design Review committee stipulates an existing three-story structure at 1226 N. Shartel is to be demolished. They also included site plans that made clear which building is to be removed.


There has to be a reason renovation started on that building and was never finished. I suspect they found big problems and decided to sell rather than continue on.

df
New medical building offices to be built at 1226 N. Shartel (Healthy Heartbeat Integrative Cardiology). Strangely, the building on that site to be demolished had new windows put into it a couple of years ago but was never finished (I believe):

http://www.oklahomacounty.org/assessor/Searches/sketches/picfile/2711/R045805400001tA.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/1226nshartel.jpg

Looks a lot like The Edge apartments at first glance.

Specs say all brick with stone accents, so I'm sure it will look nice.

I don't think the building in your pic and what's in those plans is one and the same. Referring to post #643 of this thread ;-)

I'm confused now as well. Too many projects inside this thread. If OKCisOK4me was referring to the pic in post 633 (there's no pic in 643 as he stated) and the plans for the Cline Hotel - no, they're two different projects. I think wires got crossed on what project was being referred to.

Mike, I merged some posts into this thread. When he posted, #643 was the post regarding 1226 N. Shartel.


But your point is taken and we need to split all these projects out into separate threads. I'd also like to do a numbered map so we can keep track. Nice problem to have!! Sooo much is going on and even more is coming.

That is the correct building, I assure you.

The application to the Downtown Design Review committee stipulates an existing three-story structure at 1226 N. Shartel is to be demolished. They also included site plans that made clear which building is to be removed.


There has to be a reason renovation started on that building and was never finished. I suspect they found big problems and decided to sell rather than continue on.

When Banta was managing, he went in and put new windows in almost all the Midtown RenIssance buildings before any renovations. May have just been poor planning. He was probably trying to remove eyesores and secure the structures. This was before the recession mind you.

Here are some renderings for the Cline Hotel. The floorplan is for the 3rd level but all three floors have the same basic layout; so 12 units in total.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/clinesouth.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/clineeast.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/clinenorth.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/clinethird.jpg

Pete, the side rendering also shows a partial below ground or basement level. Any idea if that will be living units as well?

In reference to Park Place - It's great to see someone with an interest in doing something there. I don't know about the easement issue though. I've been down that alley before, and there's a lot back there that you'd have to find a new home for. One being waste collection. At least in the alley, the truck drives up the middle and there it goes...you remove the easement and the bins have to sit in plain site somewhere now. Granted, small stuff like that isn't worth sweating over for a project to bring life back, but you need to keep infrastructure items in mind when you do a plan. All the meter moves, power, etc. It's going to cost a lot if you don't want to have public works/utilities folks using that access anymore...and the developer is going to have to pay for it. And if they aren't going to move them, then why toss the easement?

The basement at the Cline just says "unoccupied". Probably will be used for laundry and storage.

Mike, I merged some posts into this thread. When he posted, #643 was the post regarding 1226 N. Shartel.


But your point is taken and we need to split all these projects out into separate threads. I'd also like to do a numbered map so we can keep track. Nice problem to have!! Sooo much is going on and even more is coming.

Yeah, I just didn't think the windows on the building in the picture and the architectural plans were aligned the same way. That's cool though. Love the pic of Plaza Court, above as well!

All those renovations look spectacular. If leasing goes well, density in that area of DT will continue to improve

Yep, there is close to a critical mass of housing now in the Midtown area and with the new Mercy project, it will definitely put them over the top.

Now, if Crescent Market locates there or in Auto Alley, we will really be in business. And the streetcar is yet to come!

This is an application by Midtown Renaissance to close Park Place between the Packard and the Guardian. On page 4, it has a nice looking concept for what could be done. Also on Item B-2 on the first page it implies that the Guardian is no longer intended for residential.

http://www.okc.gov/planning/planning_library/drc/CE807.pdf

What is the cross street? Close to Francis?

It's at the NW corner of 10th and Robinson.

Maybe they were realizing leasing prospects weren't good for such a "spartan" looking edifice.

Is that a pun, Spartan? LOL

525 NW 13th Street sold. Isn't this across the street from the Mercy site? I'm not too familiar with that part of town.


13th Street LLC from Daniel M. and Joy S. Davis, 525 NW 13, $595,000.

Read more: http://newsok.com/land-sales/article/3588242#ixzz1Su1zjlqU

Yes, that is a multi-tenant office building directly north of the Mercy site:

http://www.oklahomacounty.org/assessor/Searches/sketches/picfile/2711/R044846380001uA.jpg

Is that a pun, Spartan? LOL

Of course, I love my screen name. :D

New medical building offices to be built at 1226 N. Shartel (Healthy Heartbeat Integrative Cardiology). Strangely, the building on that site to be demolished had new windows put into it a couple of years ago but was never finished (I believe):

http://www.oklahomacounty.org/assessor/Searches/sketches/picfile/2711/R045805400001tA.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/1226nshartel.jpg
At first when I saw the Pete's pic and plans, thought it was one of those instances where the developer said they were doing to build _______________ and ended up with something else.

It's about time Steve got those guys to say something: http://newsok.com/midtown-renaissance-moves-forward-with-more-housing-retail-possible-hotel/article/3589777?custom_click=lead_story_title

That was a great article by Steve. Slowly but surely, the group sans Banta has really delivered with all these properties and seems to be doing everything the right way.

Their renovations have all been first class, and they are doing a great job of mixing up retail, apartments and offices.

Really hope they can make the Osler work as a boutique hotel, as that would be a great, complimentary use for that beautiful old building.

And I admire their willingness to try and do something with the Marion, as that is a building with tons of problems. I'm sure it's day will come at some point; it seems to be in the right hands.

IF the Marion can be renovated for a reasonable amount of money, I've certainly stayed at hotels in other cities that have no parking. There is simply valet parking for everyone who arrives with car. The Marion will essentially be on the streetcar line as well. I do wish we had commuter or light rail to the airport, as then you could easily arrive at the Marion sans automobile.

IMO, Midtown has the best potential for a true urban neighborhood in OKC. After looking around this thread and reading Steve's latest article, I couldn't help but realize how out of place the new Mercy development will be. It almost would have been better to split it up or kind of do it in pieces instead of building just one big monster apartment complex. I'm not saying it won't be beneficial to the area, but it will kind of undermine a lot of the amazing efforts by the Renaissance group to really build on the area's great character. And if Henderson pulls another, gulp, Legacy on the area, it will truly be the sore thumb of the district. Hopefully, since it is so close to Heritage Hills and its influence, OCURA will be more responsible with enforcing the proposal.

I think Deep Deuce has the best potential for being a true urban neighborhood in OKC. Second to that is most undoubtedly Midtown. The amount of progress happening in the immediate downtown vicinity is amazing. It will be something when Midtown expands to meet AA and AA and the Triangle area expands to meet Deep Deuce, and Bricktown and Deep Deuce grow a little more closer. (Mainly Bricktown growing closer to Deep Deuce, rather than the opposite)

I gotta go with BDP. Ive been saying the same for a long time. I don't see deep duece being the best urban neighborhood. It doesn't have the retail and office offerings that midtown does. It's the mix of housing, retail and work places that make an area vibrant and exciting. And I see midtown as having the most potential to putting that all together

Besides the one bridal shop and food places, is there other retail in Midtown (talking Midtown, not Auto Alley)?

I get the impression that Clagg and Mid-town Renaissance is moving forward, bolstered by the emerging streetcar route. This is premier, first-rate stuff. This is the level of development that is attracted by a rising tide. This is why we fight for things like sustainability, urbanism, and so on.

They have finished or are in process on all but a couple of their properties.

Pretty amazing and it really does seem like the ball is rolling downhill now.

Yeah, for all of downtown that is.

I gotta go with BDP. Ive been saying the same for a long time. I don't see deep duece being the best urban neighborhood. It doesn't have the retail and office offerings that midtown does. It's the mix of housing, retail and work places that make an area vibrant and exciting. And I see midtown as having the most potential to putting that all together

They both are within easy walking distance of the CBD. Neither has retail of any substance. They both have a lot of restaurants within walking distance. Deep Deuce is going to have more housing options for awhile, although if you add in SoSA, there's more of an opportunity to have a backyard in Midtown. I see them as similar, but different. Different people will choose to live in one or the other. Personally, I prefer Deep Deuce because I like living within easy walking distance of the...ahem...Chesapeake Center and the Harkins Theatre and it feels more like you are right in the center of things. Automobile Alley feels closer to me from Deep Deuce than Midtown, but that's probably perception. It's nice there are now multiple choices for near downtown living and I don't really see them as competing with each other for "best" Best means different things to different people.

Mid-town is not shaping up as well as Deep Deuce. But betts is right, if someone wants to talk about a mix of ALL uses, let's have a chat about retail...

And for those of us who don't have a rooftop, there is balcony gardening. One of my favorite blogs is http://lifeonthebalcony.com/. I've got honey and cutter bees coming to my balconies regularly. I'm growing host plants for butterfly caterpillars. Next year I too will be growing tomatoes.

IF the Marion can be renovated for a reasonable amount of money, I've certainly stayed at hotels in other cities that have no parking. There is simply valet parking for everyone who arrives with car. The Marion will essentially be on the streetcar line as well. I do wish we had commuter or light rail to the airport, as then you could easily arrive at the Marion sans automobile.

It is unfortunate that it is not on Broadway. I think it's chances would be far better to be renovated. I found pictures of the inside on abandonedok.com and it was far less than I thought. It was described be a renovation gone wrong. Large amount of interior demolition. Although I bet it would be largely destroyed by now. Although there would at least be something to recreate if a true restoration was done.

There is a courtyard/open space typical of buildings from this area in the middle, which really limits floor space/ possible floor plans. I would bet that would be filled in in a renovation. I would also bet in a renovation not much more than the facade would be used.

The Marion was probably a bad purchase on the part of Banta, who was just going hog-wild in his buying spree up and down 10th Street. The saving grace I think it has is that the lot isn't very conducive for some other infill, I mean, if you tore it down and built something over it, you would still have a building with some tiny floor plate sizes.

The question is, how much is the location worth? How much does being right at the turn in the streetcar couplet make the building/location worth, and how much is its historic charm worth? Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is now the oldest building standing downtown? (in lieu of the India Temple)

And, would people mind if I start creating some new threads for the bigger projects? I am getting tired of these huge bulky threads. Let me know if that would be okay..

Spartan! DO IT! It is hard to keep track of what is going here.

Mid-town is not shaping up as well as Deep Deuce. But betts is right, if someone wants to talk about a mix of ALL uses, let's have a chat about retail...

I'd say it's premature to make that judgment, just as it would have been premature five years ago to say whether Deep Deuce was going to meet expectations. Remember, Deep Deuce got its start in 1999 while MidTown didn't get started until 2005. That's a six-year head start. Based on what I'm tracking, I'd suggest giving it a few years and then deciding whether MidTown is or is not shaping up well.

Steve, I don't doubt that at all. But here's what we know at this point. At this point, there are about to be several actual street corners in Deep Deuce that will be completely surrounded by new development. If you stand at Walnut or Oklahoma and 2nd two years from now, you will have a very strong sense of place. You will be immersed by an urban neighborhood. There won't be a single Mid-town street corner quite there yet, for at least 5 years. Right now Mid-town feels immersed by parking lots and weeds, with a few gems in between. Mid-town feels disconnected with a primary hub at 10th and Walker and then other tertiary hot spots here and there. It still hasn't come together. So if we're talking about an urban neighborhood, right now, Deep Deuce is it. Mid-town will be impressive if it keeps its momentum, and I hope that other initiatives give Mid-town the same amount of attention that the streetcar project has given it.

A difference is that Mid-town is huge. It's an area that spans from Classen to Broadway, from 13th to, 5th or 6th-ish. It feels like it is a collection of many smaller neighborhoods, and perhaps once Mid-town gets going, we will become more familiar with names like Church Row, SoSA, Plaza Court, and what could become future sub-district names.

Let's take your comment and go back in time to 2007.... and let's just replace the word MidTown with Deep Deuce:

"Right now (Deep Deuce) feels immersed by parking lots and weeds, with a few gems in between. (Deep Deuce) feels disconnected with a primary hub at (2nd and Central) and then other tertiary hot spots here and there. It still hasn't come together."

Spartan, patience my friend... things are moving forward....

Steve, not disagreeing that Mid-town is just 5 years behind, but 5 years is a real difference. But again, I think the vastness of Mid-town is another difference. Deep Deuce is a lot more concentrated, and more comparable in size to one of the smaller sub-districts that make up Mid-town.

*Also, 5 years ago, Deep Deuce did not have a few gems in between. It had the apartment project, and then most of the infill has happened on abandoned sites. By a few gems in between, I mean Plaza Court here, Robinson/Church Row there, Federal Bldg there, and so on, but all very disconnected. In Mid-town, almost all of the development has been in the form of renovation and re-use.

I know it's splitting hairs, but I just want to be precise in describing what I see happening in Mid-town, and I think we'll like it a lot in the future, but we might also be surprised at how different it is from Deep Deuce.

I look forward to us having this conversation again in five years. I enjoy these discussions ....

go to 11th and walker right now .. and you have a very full "urban feel" and in 2or 3 years you will likely have a nice hotel on that corner to go with the existing buildings

Steve, not disagreeing that Mid-town is just 5 years behind, but 5 years is a real difference. But again, I think the vastness of Mid-town is another difference. Deep Deuce is a lot more concentrated, and more comparable in size to one of the smaller sub-districts that make up Mid-town.

*Also, 5 years ago, Deep Deuce did not have a few gems in between. It had the apartment project, and then most of the infill has happened on abandoned sites. By a few gems in between, I mean Plaza Court here, Robinson/Church Row there, Federal Bldg there, and so on, but all very disconnected. In Mid-town, almost all of the development has been in the form of renovation and re-use.

I know it's splitting hairs, but I just want to be precise in describing what I see happening in Mid-town, and I think we'll like it a lot in the future, but we might also be surprised at how different it is from Deep Deuce.

Totally agree with this. It's hard to feel it in Midtown because there is so much space. 11th street doesn't feel urban at all to me. There are tons of empty lots, parking lots, and hardly any street life there.

Deep Deuce feels much different because the lots that are filling with Level and Aloft really complete the space between the CBD and the Deep Deuce Apartments. That doesn't even include the 4th street lofts. With that you can actually walk from the CBD to Sage and feel like you are walking a lively neighborhood rather than walking through a block with more parking lots than buildings.

The Mercy site will help a lot but to the east there will still be mass amounts of empty land in Midtown. They are just hard comparisons because the size and scope is so much different in Deep Deuce.

Once the 4th street lofts are done you will have buildings on the streetfronts of Oklahoma, 3rd street, and 2nd street. If something happened with the church you would really be close to finishing out the neighborhood.

I think Midtown as a whole is a 10-15 years away from being truly urban.

Windows will be good.

Totally agree with this. It's hard to feel it in Midtown because there is so much space. 11th street doesn't feel urban at all to me. There are tons of empty lots, parking lots, and hardly any street life there.

Deep Deuce feels much different because the lots that are filling with Level and Aloft really complete the space between the CBD and the Deep Deuce Apartments. That doesn't even include the 4th street lofts. With that you can actually walk from the CBD to Sage and feel like you are walking a lively neighborhood rather than walking through a block with more parking lots than buildings.

The Mercy site will help a lot but to the east there will still be mass amounts of empty land in Midtown. They are just hard comparisons because the size and scope is so much different in Deep Deuce.

Once the 4th street lofts are done you will have buildings on the streetfronts of Oklahoma, 3rd street, and 2nd street. If something happened with the church you would really be close to finishing out the neighborhood.

I think Midtown as a whole is a 10-15 years away from being truly urban.

Deep Deuce will be a showcase neighborhood, very soon. Mid-town will probably have some nice parts, but it's so huge that it will still (perhaps always) have a few "untouched parts" as we say. There will not be another neighborhood like Deep Deuce in all of Oklahoma.

Midtown will get there and will eventually be the best place to live and go out in all of OKC, IMO.

However, as excited as I get from following all this activity, I'm always shocked when I get back there to visit and actually drive around the area. A huge percentage is comprised of surface parking and vacant lots. Even if every bit of building stock was renovated and several new projects were added, there would still be as many gaps as structures. Frankly, all this recent progress just underscores how incredibly bad this area has been -- on a very large scale -- for decades.

When Midtown fills in and the CBD and Auto Alley all grow together and start to be a little more seamless, then we'll really have something. 10-15 years is probably what it's going to take but of course, there is already plenty of reason to go/live there now. But it's certainly not a place that makes you want to get out and walk around.


Deep Deuce is going to feel somewhat complete with the finish of just the projects that are already underway. It's also the only place I've ever walked in OKC and felt like I was in an emerging urban neighborhood. It is going to be a very special place, and soon.