a 12 year old kid understands things more clearly than adult led organizations "watching out for us"...Heard this guy Donohue on Opie and Anthony this morning and they completely destroyed the guy...Guy is nothing but a publicity hound who admitted he doesn't even watch much of the stuff he condemns...Said his employees gather the info and bring it to him...Sure it looks bad to him when his employee brings him something about a child rape movie w/o knowing anything about the non graphic darkly lit scene..Federal investigation...What a crock

PARK CITY, Utah (AP) -- At a festival that features several films with sexual content, including full male nudity and a documentary about bestiality, a Southern Gothic tale that includes the rape of a young girl is causing the biggest stir.

"Hounddog" is the story of Lewellen, a girl played by 12-year-old Dakota Fanning, who is growing up in the 1960s South. She is a free-spirit obsessed with Elvis Presley and has little supervision by her abusive father and alcoholic grandmother.

Even before the first screening of "Hounddog" at the Sundance Film Festival this week, a Christian film critic, citing Fanning's age, decried the movie as child abuse, and Roman Catholic activist Bill Donohue called for a federal investigation.

Fanning is defending her work as well as the movie, and so is the head of Sundance, who said it was courageous for director Deborah Kampmeier to tackle "challenging material." "Hounddog" is entered in the festival's dramatic category. (Blog: Read the reaction of CNN's Brooke Anderson.)

"It's not a rape movie," Fanning said Tuesday. "That's not even the point of the film." (Watch Fanning's dance with a lamp pole 'microphone' and her take on the role)

The disturbing scene lasts a few minutes but is not graphic. There is no nudity, the scene is very darkly lit and only Fanning's face and hand are shown

Wasn't "The Tin Drum" movie confiscated by a group of folks in OKC for similar reasons years ago, and later the whole event was found to be unconstitutional and the city had to pay some serious restitution for the whole ordeal? This sounds a lot like that episode.

Ever since I first heard of this controversy I can't help but wonder what they think of horror/slasher/thrillers where children are KILLED. Is rape worse than murder? I mean, is it okay to show kids getting slashed and dismembered, but it's somehow "illegal" to portray a rape? Let's face it, this is an issue society has to grapple with and fiction - whether books or movies - has been a way to do that. This stuff happens and to pretend that fictionally portraying that is somehow illegal or whatever - I don't buy it.

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I don't agree with what they tried to do with the Tin Drum movie by going to people's houses and confiscating it. It was a little too Farenheit 451 (or: insert you choice of big government novels, etc.) for me. But I also don't agree with what is portrayed in these movies.

I think alot of people are getting hung up on the "It didn't harm Dakota or scar her so why should we worry" theme when that's not the only part of the equation. Whether there's any nudity or not, alot of pervs will watch this movie, buy the dvd and replay that scene over and over just because of what it portrays eventhough they know it's not a real rape. If I were her parents it would bother and sicken me to know that these pervs would be watching this scene and masturbating or worse to the image and thought of my little girl. And if you don't think that's what'll happen behind closed doors, then you're being naive.

The thing is these closed doors won't remain so. There are many sick people who don't need much persuasion to lose touch with reality and copycat this scene. I know it happens anyway without this movie but I can see the movie making it worse. Even if it causes just one copycat, that's one too many for my taste. The movie is being a part of the problem not a part of the solution.

The popularity of the "To Catch a Predator" series on Dateline or whatever it is, should be an indication of the kind of problem that we're dealing with. It is rampant already, we don't need a scene in a movie like this to encourage others to follow suit.

And although I don't watch many slasher films and do think they are too violent, I also know that many have to do with the supernatural and that makes it a little more difficult to copycat. But I'm not saying that it is an excuse or it makes it okay for slasher films.

I know you all will probably think I'm a prude for my views, but as a parent and as a guy who knows and understands how the male mind can and does work, I think this scene in the movie is irresponsible.

Now, Flame Away!

traxx...They say there is no nudity and it is a very dark scene...My thinking is this is not enough to persuade some pervert on the verge of doing something similar...I'm thinking there is MUCH more persuasive material that would push them over the edge on the internet, magazines and books

My point was many of these watchdog organizations simply heard that a child rape scene was in the movie and set about boycotting it w/o even viewing or researching it...Seems like an uncomfortable, but completely harmless scene to me...If a sicko enjoys this scene then he would have already been too far gone imo

Whether it's darkly lit or not doesn't make any difference. It's the subject matter that matters. And yes, I know that the Internet and magazines have bad stuff as well, but I highly doubt that child pornography is mainstream enough to be found easily. And whether some perv is "too far gone" or not, I say we don't need to give them any encouragement.

There are some things I just can't abide and something that contributes to the detriment of a child is one. And again, I'm not saying that Dakota Fanning is necessarily endangered because of this scene but it could lead to the endangerment of other children.

You can argue that this kind of thing would happen even withouth the encouragement of a movie scene, but I have to disagree. Movies can be very influential. I really don't think that John Hinkley Jr. would have tried to assassinate President Reagan in order to impress Jodie Foster if it hadn't been for Taxi Driver.

I don't know if you have any children or not Easy, but I would have to think if you did, this kind of thing would bother you. Especially when you realize that this could lead some sicko to harm your own child.

Don't have any yet traxx, but doubt it would change my mind at all...Judging from most news reports I've seen pedophiles have a vast array of material to choose from and most are busted with photos, videos or magazines in their homes...Men are visual to say the least and a dark scene wouldn't be high on their list

I just don't picture these types of sicko's sitting and waiting for a legal movie to finally come out that depicts a child rape scene in a (for lack of a better word) tasteful manner...This kind of crime happens all over the world and if it is essential to the story I see no problem with it

When/if you do have children it will change your outlook and view on quit a few things. You just look at the world differently when a child is depending on you.

Again, I will say that the lighting of the scene has nothing to do withit, it's the subject matter. But if you want to continue to get hung up on lighting, what the sound mix is going to be, and how much extras are paid, then you're missing the issue.

The point is not pervs getting off on magazines and such but using this idea as a springboard and putting it into action instead of just being a voyeur. When they move from looking to acting upon it, then someone will be hurt.

But, if you consider a scene depicting a 12 year old child being raped as tasteful (even if it is for lack of a better word) I question the purpose of this conversation. If that's the case then you will never see the other side of the argument and I pray you never have children.

So your thinking is if society ignores it then it will just go away traxx?...I just don't think movie's should be banned or boycotted just because a very small amount of people will view it in a sick or twisted way

Movie is dealing with a real issue and does it in a brief and responsible way...Who knows maybe it will help out some children in these horrible situations if their parents notice some similar behavior

I don't have a problem with people boycotting the movie. I don't think the movie should be banned however, because when something is banned it just makes it so much easier for "them" to ban other things in the future. I think that's giving too much power to those in "control."

I think you're kidding yourself if you think it is a "very small amount of people" that will view this in a twisted way. I think if you look at the society around you, you will see that child molestation is an epidemic. And that group, that is not that small in the first place, can abuse several children per person. These pervs don't usually just do it to one child and that's it, they tend to be serial offenders. So even if it were a small group, their sphere of influence is exponential.

You call this scene reponsible, but it is the exact opposite. It is very irresponsible to put such a scene in a movie without considering how it might affect the world around them. Just because you can do it, doesn't mean that you should.

I think you're just hiding your head in the sand if you don't think that movies can influence behavior for the worse. Just look at my example of Hinkley. You're just trying to justify it because you want to see a movie with a 12 year old child getting raped.

Don't get me wrong, I can see your point. And I think sometimes watchgroups are overly sensitive and/or they address "problems" that the group that they are trying to protect doesn't even seem to have a problem with. But I think when it comes to child well being, you're dealing with a totally different animal and it should be taken seriously. And child molestation is just part of it, child abuse is also a big factor. It still upsets me when I think of what happened to Kelsey Briggs.

II think you're just hiding your head in the sand if you don't think that movies can influence behavior for the worse. Just look at my example of Hinkley. You're just trying to justify it because you want to see a movie with a 12 year old child getting raped.

You are giving me one guy in the whole world that misinterpreted Taxi Driver?...I could misinterpret The Passion of Christ and go around nailing people to crosses...Was it irresponsible for Mel to make a movie that has such graphic violence?

There are many movies with women getting raped and/or beaten and there isn't a backlash against them...These could also spur potential rapists to copy or push them over the edge...Where do we draw the line when it comes to movies?

Just dealing with reality instead of ignoring it

You are giving me one guy in the whole world that misinterpreted Taxi Driver?

Alright, I'll give you another. What about the teenage couple from Oklahoma that set out to immitate the movie Natural Born Killers? They murdered one person and left another paralyzed. And I'm sure you think that one person murdered because of that movie is not statistically significant but if it had been a loved one of yours the percentages wouldn't have mattered to you. But really, how many examples do I have to give before it matters?

You say your dealing with reality instead of ignoring it, but your statements betray you. If that were the case you'd understand what kind of sickos are out there. But you want to pretend this problem doesn't exist so you can get off on seeing this portrayal of a child being raped and your conscience won't bother you.

You say your dealing with reality instead of ignoring it, but your statements betray you. If that were the case you'd understand what kind of sickos are out there. But you want to pretend this problem doesn't exist so you can get off on seeing this portrayal of a child being raped and your conscience won't bother you.

Believe me I won't be "getting off" on this scene...From the sounds of it it is a very unsettling scene as it is designed to be...But I can guarantee you it wouldn't do anything to my conscience as I will realize it is after all just acting with a 100 strong film crew lined up right outside of the camera angles

Kid says no harm no foul and I completely agree

Kid says no harm no foul and I completely agree

Well then, that says it all. The Kid probably also thinks that "That's So Raven" is quality TV too.

She is too young to have any idea of the far reaching affects of this scene. I stated this earlier. She is only seeing it from the viewpoint of how it affects her. It goes far beyond that.

If you're going to base your thoughts on what the Kids says, why not go to her myspace to find out which Britney Spears album is her favorite too.

Kids often don't know what is best for them let alone anyone else. I know when I was her age, I didn't understand the logic behind alot of what my parents did, but now that I'm older and wiser, I see exactly where they were coming from.

You can't expect a child of 12 to fathom the emotional reprecussions of something like this in the long term. The longer you live and the more of the world you see the more it changes your views of things from when you were a child.

Just to jump in here....What about the untold thousands of scenes that have depicted the murder of children? I ask again - is rape worse than murder? Why not the same outrage over the depiction of children being murdered? That's standard fare in the horror/thriller genre. If depiction in the movies is the issue, how can we - as a society - scream about this Hounddog movie and the rape, while accepting the other? After all, as horrific as rape is, nobody would suggest it's equal to murder and dismemberment of a child. There are some double-standards at play here, imo.

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Well said writerranger...The movie scene is just an easy target for do-gooder organizations who I guess have no problems with all of the movies you are describing

It does appear the movie got horrible reviews at the screening so probably won't be hearing too much more about Hounddog anyway

Just to jump in here....What about the untold thousands of scenes that have depicted the murder of children? I ask again - is rape worse than murder? Why not the same outrage over the depiction of children being murdered? That's standard fare in the horror/thriller genre. If depiction in the movies is the issue, how can we - as a society - scream about this Hounddog movie and the rape, while accepting the other? After all, as horrific as rape is, nobody would suggest it's equal to murder and dismemberment of a child. There are some double-standards at play here, imo.

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I agree. As I said earlier, I can't abide mistreatment of children whether it's real or merely appears to be real as acted out in a movie. I can't answer for others as to why they're not outraged by these other scenes, but I am. I just happen to be talking about this movie because it was brought up as the subject of this thread.

The scene from A Beautiful Mind where John Nash leaves his baby son in the bathtub with the water running because his imaginary friend was watching him really bothered me. Even after I watched the extras and saw how the baby was in no danger because the water was digitally created, I am still bothered when watching this scene and really, I can't watch it. I know this has to do with me having children of my own, because when I was in my 20s and had no children, I don't think I would have been bothered by this.

And yes, I know that the Internet and magazines have bad stuff as well, but I highly doubt that child pornography is mainstream enough to be found easily.


I found your statement interesting given this very recent internet child porn article:

Huge global child porn ring found - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/02/07/kids.online.porn.ap/index.html)

With over 8000 hits to one site in 24 hours, I'd say it's more "mainstream" than we'd like to believe.

I personally have no opinion of the movie, as I haven't seen it. That's my only problem with the boycotting or complaining...if someone hasn't seen it, they don't actually know what they are complaining about.

Seeing as how the child porn ring was in Austria and that child porn is illegal, I still believe these sites are more difficult to find than going to the cinema or the local movie rental store. Not to mention the $89 it cost to view these videos which is a pretty stiff barrier to entry for all but the hardcore people that really want to see this kind of thing. Yes, it's probably more mainstream than we realize, but it's not as readily available as movies. And don't think that someone on a child porn site won't replicate this scene in bright light and full view for download.

As far as the argument of complaining about a 12 year old being raped in a movie that I haven't seen, that's a pretty weak argument. I don't have to be involved in a fiery, rollover car wreck to know that I wouldn't like it.

. And don't think that someone on a child porn site won't replicate this scene in bright light and full view for download.

.

Why would they do that?...It would just show them actually doing nothing instead of what we are led to believe is happening...I'm pretty sure they don't actually have the adult actor molesting Dakota

^^I'm saying replicate the scene in the way the pervs would like to see it.

But you guys have finally beaten me down. I have been owned on this topic. I see your side of it and I see the light. Child rape is alright and it should be portrayed in every type of media possible as art. Can't wait for this movie to come to OKC or DVD!!!:Smiley171

^^I'm saying replicate the scene in the way the pervs would like to see it.

But you guys have finally beaten me down. I have been owned on this topic. I see your side of it and I see the light. Child rape is alright and it should be portrayed in every type of media possible as art. Can't wait for this movie to come to OKC or DVD!!!:Smiley171

Finally...You see my point...Hey wait a second :headscrat

Well, how ugly and sick some can be! I made (the mistake I guess) of posting my email address in a post at one time here at OKCTalk. I just received an anonymous email about my views on the rape scene in Hounddog and making horrible remarks about my children whose pictures they have seen in my Member Gallery. To "anonymous"....I am simply shocked you could take an opinion about a movie and let it upset you so much that you make such sick and perverted comments. You make me question if I should leave their pictures up. I have always felt safe as no last names are used (we have the same issues on Flickr), but because of the sick comments from "anonymous" - I really me wondering. Sick, sick.

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Well, how ugly and sick some can be! I made (the mistake I guess) of posting my email address in a post at one time here at OKCTalk. I just received an anonymous email about my views on the rape scene in Hounddog and making horrible remarks about my children whose pictures they have seen in my Member Gallery. To "anonymous"....I am simply shocked you could take an opinion about a movie and let it upset you so much that you make such sick and perverted comments. You make me question if I should leave their pictures up. I have always felt safe as no last names are used (we have the same issues on Flickr), but because of the sick comments from "anonymous" - I really me wondering. Sick, sick.

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Nice writerranger...Your post was so controversial....Not

Kinda feel bad that you got singled out instead of me :omg:

Definitely weak to pm someone over a post that was just expressing your opinion...Much more scary than the topic at hand...Proves freaks know how to use a computer

As far as the argument of complaining about a 12 year old being raped in a movie that I haven't seen, that's a pretty weak argument. I don't have to be involved in a fiery, rollover car wreck to know that I wouldn't like it.

What part of my statement was an argument? It's my opinion. It seems to me that sometimes people get themselves upset about things they know nothing about. If you choose to do so, that is your choice. There's no argument to be had.

And I simply thought the article was interesting, as we (generally speaking) have a belief that child porn on the internet is not very mainstream, but apparently it's more so than we'd like. (Which is quite icky.) Its location in Austria really has nothing to do with it...no such thing as continental boundaries via the web.

"Officials said on Wednesday 607 of the suspects were in the United States, 466 in Germany, 114 in France and 23 in Austria. Hits on a Russian Web page that offered the videos were also recorded in Algeria, Iceland and Venezuela.

Most of those under investigation were suspected of distributing the digital videos after watching them, Interior Minister Guenther Platter told a news conference."

607 in the US in this bust alone and most distributed them after watching

Well, how ugly and sick some can be! I made (the mistake I guess) of posting my email address in a post at one time here at OKCTalk. I just received an anonymous email about my views on the rape scene in Hounddog and making horrible remarks about my children whose pictures they have seen in my Member Gallery. To "anonymous"....I am simply shocked you could take an opinion about a movie and let it upset you so much that you make such sick and perverted comments. You make me question if I should leave their pictures up. I have always felt safe as no last names are used (we have the same issues on Flickr), but because of the sick comments from "anonymous" - I really me wondering. Sick, sick.

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My wife doesn't like for me to give any personal info out on the web for that very reason and she sure doesn't want me posting any pics of our family. I don't blame her either. Too many weirdos out there.

And although, I disagree with some of you guys' (and gals") posts, I would never anonymously pm some one. I hate when people do that. I came back from vacation once and someone had left an anonymous note in my snail mailbox telling me to mow the alley behind my house. I didn't know I was responsible for that as I was new to the neighborhood, I thought maybe the city did that since there were utilities in the alley. So I didn't mow it for the rest of the summer just to tick Anonymous off.

If I were you, Writerranger, I'd start taking my pics and personal info off the web. And I suggest that to anyone. We are just losing too much privacy these days what with everyone (banks, cable company etc.) wanting your SSN.