Seattle had Microsoft in the first place due to Udub.

All these tech jobs happen because of great universities and the culture follows, not the other way around.

seattle got microsoft because gates and allen wanted a better place then New mexico and they were both born in Seattle ..

and austin owes its growth as a tech hub largely to Dell ..

Walters is a symptom of a much larger problem. Not sure how it gets resolved so we can have a better educated work force that could lead to better opportunities.

I spoke with a colleague who is pretty high up down on 23rd Street. About 90% of Walters’ support comes from out of state “think tank” such as the Freedom Institute—or whatever that wacky pack group down in Dallas is called. It’s only a matter of time until he’s on his way out of this state.

seattle got microsoft because gates and allen wanted a better place then New mexico and they were both born in Seattle ..

and austin owes its growth as a tech hub largely to Dell ..

And they needed skilled workers. No way they grow those companies in places without great universities, which not coincidentally, is true in both Seattle and Austin.

Michael Dell was from Houston but moved to Austin to go to UT.

Paul Allen and Bill Gates were from Seattle, and while still in high school:


used the laboratory of the Computer Science Department of the University of Washington for personal research and computer programming

The onus supposedly being on the general population and not the legislature for largely failing education for the majority of people's lifetimes here is so very Oklahoma.

Back to the main topic. Just sell it to the Chickasaws and have them figure out something cool to do with it.

And they needed skilled workers. No way they grow those companies in places without great universities, which not coincidentally, is true in both Seattle and Austin.

Michael Dell was from Houston but moved to Austin to go to UT.

Paul Allen and Bill Gates were from Seattle, and while still in high school:

100% Gates and Allen needed a place with talent and they would have only moved to places that had it ..

Dell on the other had when they started and grew as a personal computer company didn't need much skilled talent at all .. ..

Dell on the other had when they started and grew as a personal computer company didn't need much skilled talent at all .. ..

Dell would not have been in Austin if not for the University of Texas. Period.

Dell would not have been in Austin if not for the University of Texas. Period.

yeah because he was in college there .. dell would have started where ever Michael dell when to school .. he was pre-med at ut ..

yeah because he was in college there .. dell would have started where ever Michael dell when to school .. he was pre-med at ut ..

You are only proving my point.

Great universities attract great minds. Many Silicon Valley startups began with people who moved there for Stanford or Berkeley, many of whom dropped out.

And once you get a critical mass of great minds, innovation and growth are self-perpetuating.


BTW, there has long been discussion about "brain drain" in Oklahoma, where the best and brightest leave for precisely the type of fertile intellectual ground created by excellent higher education. Same is true for the ultra-influencial "creative class".

You are only proving my point.

Great universities attract great minds. Many Silicon Valley startups began with people who moved there for Stanford or Berkeley, many of whom dropped out.

And once you get a critical mass of great minds, innovation and growth are self-perpetuating.


BTW, there has long been discussion about "brain drain" in Oklahoma, where the best and brightest leave for precisely the type of fertile intellectual ground created by excellent higher education. Same is true for the ultra-influencial "creative class".

My daughter for personal/family reasons did a semester of school at the University of Tulsa while she was in college. I forget what the topic of class was, but she had a visiting professor who had worked at a big time think tank in DC. He was a complete arrogant ass and talked down to the class telling them that no one attending a school like TU could get a job like his at the think tank. Or any school in Oklahoma. He was mocking the whole state basically. Beyond being really rude, it's also kinda sadly true. And why brain drain happens. We certainly need to do better with education at all levels.

What is it about so many in this state that it devalues the importance of education? It is almost like a badge of honor to many. Are they are in denial, ignorant as to its importance, or is it a class/culture warfare thing?

100% Gates and Allen needed a place with talent and they would have only moved to places that had it ..

Dell on the other had when they started and grew as a personal computer company didn't need much skilled talent at all .. ..

I mean they started in ABQ then went back to Washington, because culturally New Mexico isn't an educated state.

Great memories on that campus and in those buildings. I had offices in 13, 14, 15 and 5 during my time there. Still hard to believe how precipitously the company has shrunk and how vacant that once buzzing campus now is. Almost seems like a dream.

What is it about so many in this state that it devalues the importance of education? It is almost like a badge of honor to many. Are they are in denial, ignorant as to its importance, or is it a class/culture warfare thing?

The answer is 'yes' to all. Sadly it isn't just Oklahoma, that attitude has nearly gone national for reasons that if I state them would result in me ending up in the OKCTalk penalty box.

My daughter for personal/family reasons did a semester of school at the University of Tulsa while she was in college. I forget what the topic of class was, but she had a visiting professor who had worked at a big time think tank in DC. He was a complete arrogant ass and talked down to the class telling them that no one attending a school like TU could get a job like his at the think tank. Or any school in Oklahoma. He was mocking the whole state basically. Beyond being really rude, it's also kinda sadly true. And why brain drain happens. We certainly need to do better with education at all levels.

Anything that a DC think tank / higher education professor says isn't worth the toilet paper they wiped their @$$ with that morning. I couldn't think of a more-removed-from-society person than the one you described...

I saw where the brain drain has slowed significantly. It's a start. Nowhere near perfect, at all. But you know what they say about how to eat an elephant.

https://oklahoma.gov/ltgovpinnell/newsroom/2025/a-year-of-flight---migration.html#:~:text=The%20migration%20trend%20h as%20also,higher%20earners%20leaving%20the%20state .

https://www.kansascityfed.org/oklahomacity/oklahoma-economist/from-brain-drain-to-brain-gain-oklahomas-population-on-the-rise/#:~:text=Like%20the%20overall%20migration%20trends ,to%20the%20Lone%20Star%20state.

The only people who devalue education are either uneducated or undereducated themselves (and thus threatened and insecure) or people who are taking advantage of them for their own agendas.

Education is the single best investment you can make in yourself and a community/state. Anyone arguing against this is doing so against even the most basic common sense.

And yet here we sit in Oklahoma, near the bottom of the barrel decade after decade, and the only momentum is downward.


Even though the solution is completely obvious, I have no reason to believe I will live to see any real change. So, OKC does what it can by taxing ourselves over and over but we are always, always going to be limited by the very real perception we are a backward, uneducated state. Harsh, but true.

The only people who devalue education are either uneducated or undereducated themselves (and thus threatened and insecure) or people who are taking advantage of them for their own agendas.

Education is the single best investment you can make in yourself and a community/state. Anyone arguing against this is doing so against even the most basic common sense.

And yet here we sit in Oklahoma, near the bottom of the barrel decade after decade, and the only momentum is downward.


Even though the solution is completely obvious, I have no reason to believe I will live to see any real change. So, OKC does what it can by taxing ourselves over and over but we are always, always going to be limited by the very real perception we are a backward, uneducated state. Harsh, but true.

I agree with you, and have never intended to argue otherwise. It will never be an easy fix, either. There are obvious solutions, but getting to those will take a tangential change at 23rd and Lincoln.

Pete and others are spot on -- it's a culture thing. I was born and raised one state north, and I noticed a significant difference when I moved here. I find that most Oklahomans see institutions (higher ed, etc.) as something to rebel against. It's a culture of proud ignorance that absolutely hurts the state.

Culture can be created though. Just takes innovative and brave leadership to change. OU and OSU have the foundations, but I doubt the leadership will ever happen. I have a small child, and I'm very torn on if Oklahoma is the right place for him to grow up in. There are positives no doubt, but some significant challenges.

I have a small child, and I'm very torn on if Oklahoma is the right place for him to grow up in. There are positives no doubt, but some significant challenges.
I have young kids and think about this often. My wife and I are both born and raised Oklahomans but we are also both big proponents of education. It’s really hard to see us moving but sometimes I want to just pack up and head to a state with top 10 education so I feel like my kids can get a good head start in life. It can happen here, as there are excellent educators for sure, but I always worry about the direction we’re heading.

It’s worth noting that the person who maybe did the most to raise OU’s academic profile just died in David Boren. He identified several strategies to do so such as recruit merit scholars, build an honors college and dorms around majors, campus beautification. I know he wasn’t perfect, but he at least tried to make OU more prestigious.

Pete and others are spot on -- it's a culture thing. I was born and raised one state north, and I noticed a significant difference when I moved here. I find that most Oklahomans see institutions (higher ed, etc.) as something to rebel against. It's a culture of proud ignorance that absolutely hurts the state.

Culture can be created though. Just takes innovative and brave leadership to change. OU and OSU have the foundations, but I doubt the leadership will ever happen. I have a small child, and I'm very torn on if Oklahoma is the right place for him to grow up in. There are positives no doubt, but some significant challenges.

As someone who has experience dealing with the Regents, they are working hard to reverse negative trends. Higher education enrollment has increased each of the years I have worked with them. They have numerous projects in place to help at risk youth work towards and afford a college education.

It will take a while to get to a top level, of course. But all of the 4 year universities are working hard to increase opportunities. The problem is at the secondary education level, where children just aren't at the levels they need to be. The cities are usually fine, but the rural areas are where the metrics are not great.

^

You have to understand that EVERY school and EVERY state is working hard to improve their standing.

OU and OSU are improving very incrementally and not keeping pace with the better schools and thus are falling further and further down the rankings.

Universities exist in a fantastically competitive market where information flows freely. You can argue the merits of various ranking systems but there is a direct correlation between that and the quality of students you attract, which is the most important thing of all.

In context, things are getting worse not better.

As someone who has experience dealing with the Regents, they are working hard to reverse negative trends. Higher education enrollment has increased each of the years I have worked with them. They have numerous projects in place to help at risk youth work towards and afford a college education.

It will take a while to get to a top level, of course. But all of the 4 year universities are working hard to increase opportunities. The problem is at the secondary education level, where children just aren't at the levels they need to be. The cities are usually fine, but the rural areas are where the metrics are not great.

2025 U.S. News & World Report Rankings:

Rice University: Tied at #18
University of Texas at Austin (UT Austin): Tied at #30
Texas A&M University (TAMU): Tied at #33
Southern Methodist University (SMU): Tied at #72
Baylor University: Tied at #75
Texas Christian University (TCU): Tied at #80
University of Oklahoma (OU): Tied at #127
University of Tulsa: Tied at #137
Oklahoma State University (OSU): Tied at #182

Not only are they considered better academic schools in Texas, but they graduate WAY MORE students. OU is the best in OK and it is known for being a pretty good school in several things and relatively inexpensive to attend. In the Texas schools they have world class studies in multiple fields, especially in engineering, IT, math, business and for being harder to get into.

My point isn't to bash OU or the other OKla schools, but to say that the Texas schools attract and graduate many more top level minds and they retain them. We aren't home growing enough to compete well in an ever increasingly difficult world. And our citizens seem to think it is because the Bible isn't taught in the schools, or that there are racy books in the library, or because men are changing sex to compete in girl's races.

Ignorance begets ignorance.

The problem is bigger than just the educational system, it's the direction the country has been going. It's why private schools are doing so well, as public education has gone way downhill across the board.

I remember when I went to school, the teachers forced you to learn and if you didn't, your parents would. Now, it's illegal for the teachers to force you to learn and the parents just don't care if their kids learn or not, as long as the kids get their way. That's not just an Oklahoma problem. Then you have this stupid "common core" crap. Just teach the way that has worked for hundreds of years and don't dumb it down.

The problem is bigger than just the educational system, it's the direction the country has been going. It's why private schools are doing so well, as public education has gone way downhill across the board.

I remember when I went to school, the teachers forced you to learn and if you didn't, your parents would. Now, it's illegal for the teachers to force you to learn and the parents just don't care if their kids learn or not, as long as the kids get their way. That's not just an Oklahoma problem. Then you have this stupid "common core" crap. Just teach the way that has worked for hundreds of years and don't dumb it down.

"Force you to Learn" As someone who is related to multiple teachers and administrators in this State it has nothing to do with forcing someone to learn. How I learn is completely different than the way my siblings learned. My Sister is only a few years older than me and we went through the same school system. I never finished college and she has a masters degree and was at the top of her class at all levels of education.

A kid in school today has so much more information going through their brains than I did in the 80's and 90's. You can not teach kids today the way they taught us back then. Such an ignorant statement!

2025 U.S. News & World Report Rankings:

Rice University: Tied at #18
University of Texas at Austin (UT Austin): Tied at #30
Texas A&M University (TAMU): Tied at #33
Southern Methodist University (SMU): Tied at #72
Baylor University: Tied at #75
Texas Christian University (TCU): Tied at #80
University of Oklahoma (OU): Tied at #127
University of Tulsa: Tied at #137
Oklahoma State University (OSU): Tied at #182

Not only are they considered better academic schools in Texas, but they graduate WAY MORE students. OU is the best in OK and it is known for being a pretty good school in several things and relatively inexpensive to attend. In the Texas schools they have world class studies in multiple fields, especially in engineering, IT, math, business and for being harder to get into.

My point isn't to bash OU or the other OKla schools, but to say that the Texas schools attract and graduate many more top level minds and they retain them. We aren't home growing enough to compete well in an ever increasingly difficult world. And our citizens seem to think it is because the Bible isn't taught in the schools, or that there are racy books in the library, or because men are changing sex to compete in girl's races.

Ignorance begets ignorance.

I wish Oklahoma had those public schools, sure. But it is impossible to compare those private schools to anything Oklahoma has.

I am not demeaning this listing, at all. The colleges in Oklahoma have to improve, greatly. That is not arguable. I am just saying that private schools are different. They are, by virtue of their name, not public, so it is hard to compare them to public schools. You could put Stanford on that list, if you wanted to.

Again, I am not belittling you or your post, as it shows OU and OSU are not at the level they need to be, compared to UT and TAMU.

And to be fair, your last few sentences are also majorly being discussed in Texas, as well. They just have more money to plug their issues with than Oklahoma does.

It is a culture issue, for sure.

"Force you to Learn" As someone who is related to multiple teachers and administrators in this State it has nothing to do with forcing someone to learn. How I learn is completely different than the way my siblings learned. My Sister is only a few years older than me and we went through the same school system. I never finished college and she has a masters degree and was at the top of her class at all levels of education.

A kid in school today has so much more information going through their brains than I did in the 80's and 90's. You can not teach kids today the way they taught us back then. Such an ignorant statement!

Your statement is just another example of the lack of self-responsibility I was talking about. Kids these days simply do not have any self-responsibility because they were never taught any. Parents at home are too busy and teachers aren't allow to (can't hurt these poor kids' feelings these days). Teacher may try, but may get fired if they even think about discipline or correcting the kid (other than a mere suggestion).

The problem is bigger than just the educational system, it's the direction the country has been going. It's why private schools are doing so well, as public education has gone way downhill across the board.

I remember when I went to school, the teachers forced you to learn and if you didn't, your parents would. Now, it's illegal for the teachers to force you to learn and the parents just don't care if their kids learn or not, as long as the kids get their way. That's not just an Oklahoma problem. Then you have this stupid "common core" crap. Just teach the way that has worked for hundreds of years and don't dumb it down.

I think it would shock most people at how much of the political stereotype falls away if they actually visited the classrooms to see what is going on. Teachers could NEVER "force" a student to learn. But if students think their society doesn't value education, they won't either. If their parents excuse and condone poor or no educational achievement, the students won't even try. If bad behavior of a student towards their teacher is ignored by the parent, bad behavior grows. If the parents don't bother to take the time to become part of the educational process except to fight imagined cultural wars, the students won't invest their time either. If the parent has low expectations it will be realized in their child.

I am just saying that private schools are different. They are, by their name, not public, so it is hard to compare them to public schools. You could put Stanford on that list, if you wanted to.

Oklahoma has plenty of private schools (Tulsa, OCU, OCC, OBU, SNU, and a bunch of others) and none are remotely competitive.

It's a STATE problem, not a public/private issue. We don't have ANY well-regarded universities, at all.


We can all sit here and hope some big company moves to OKC or buys the old Chesapeake campus and creates tons of highly-paid jobs because it happens in other cities, right?? 100% unrealistic and education is absolutely the reason why.

We aren't even in the discussion for these things, as Musk's dismissive email about Oklahoma proved after the fact. And of course we aren't. When has that even been a realistic possibility?? In the entire history of the state, it's never turned out that we were really close on something great. It's not that we are losing contests, we're never in the ballgame to begin with. Worse yet, there is nothing on the horizon that is going to change that. And I'm not counting factory jobs, even though we don't attract many of those either. I'm talking about well-paid white collar positions that people are constantly posting about going elsewhere.


It's not the end of the world. OKC will continue to try and work around these massive limitations and have small wins. But that's all it will ever be.

Your statement is just another example of the lack of self-responsibility I was talking about. Kids these days simply do not have any self-responsibility because they were never taught any. Parents at home are too busy and teachers aren't allow to (can't hurt these poor kids' feelings these days). Teacher may try, but may get fired if they even think about discipline or correcting the kid (other than a mere suggestion).

So you are saying these children who were raised by older generations, have no self responsibility? Then who is to blame, the Parents or the Students? Not all kids can learn at the same level and speed. Your statements clearly shows that one can earn an education, but that education doesn't necessarily mean one learned anything from it.

Losing Panasonic to Kansas should have been a wake up call (as well as the state repeatedly falling flat on its face regarding any large employer locating here) but of course it wasn’t. OKC’s humiliation after losing the United plant to Indianapolis helped spur major changes that allowed the city to transform.

This needs to be done at a state level. Businesses would rather locate to Kansas than Oklahoma for a better standard of living and quality of life. And that’s a battery plant. Not even getting into HQs where as Pete mentioned Oklahoma isn’t even on their radar. The state and powers that be should be embarrassed. Are they? Of course not.

Until then get excited about more warehouses being built.

Losing Panasonic to Kansas should have been a wake up call (as well as the state repeatedly falling flat on its face regarding any large employer locating here) but of course it wasn’t.

Just look at the news coming out of Oklahoma since then.

Does anybody think we learned and are now have at least started down a better path? The exact opposite is true.


And what happened with Canoo -- which is arguably the only 'win' we've had in a very long time -- was completely embarrassing and only made the entire state look like a bunch of rubes (which in that situation is a pretty accurate description).

And the legislative response? Let's introduce a bill banning public incentives for EV companies. Absolutely brilliant.

Just look at the news coming out of Oklahoma since then.

Does anybody think we learned and are now have at least started down a better path? The exact opposite is true.


And what happened with Canoo -- which is arguably the only 'win' we've had in a very long time -- was completely embarrassing and only made the entire state look like a bunch of rubes (which in that situation is a pretty accurate description).

And the legislative response? Let's introduce a bill banning public incentives for EV companies. Absolutely brilliant.

It’s admirable what OKC (and Tulsa to an extent) has been able to do considering the state government has done basically everything in its power to make things difficult for the city. Without OKC the state would be a flat, more barren West Virginia. Or a land-locked American Samoa maybe.


I wonder what the population of the state and OKC would be if state leadership wasn’t horrible my entire life.

I wonder what the population of the state and OKC would be if state leadership wasn’t horrible my entire life.

I've broken this down elsewhere but without OKC, the state of Oklahoma would be near stagnant in population growth and certainly in terms of progress in general.

I mean they started in ABQ then went back to Washington, because culturally New Mexico isn't an educated state.

That wasn't the reason.

Just finished Gate's new book "Source Code". It is a great read. Micro-Soft located in ABQ because their first customer (MITS) was located there. MITS was acquired by a larger company who tried to violate the MITS exclusive license agreement with Micro-Soft. Micro-Soft won in arbitration and was free to do business with anyone. Micro-Soft then left ABQ because Gates and Allen were homesick, not because NM was an uneducated state.

As someone who has spent their career in education, there’s so much hyperbole and silliness in this thread.

As someone who has spent their career in education, there’s so much hyperbole and silliness in this thread.
As someone who has spent their career in business nationally and internationally, there is so much minimization of the educational problem here in this state.

Wow! Did this thread ever go Debbie Downer! Last year everyone was counting the number of tall cranes in the city! I know there are some reality checks that need to be done, but it could have been done in November.

As someone who has spent their career in education, there’s so much hyperbole and silliness in this thread.

And in which state do you live and teach?

Anything that a DC think tank / higher education professor says isn't worth the toilet paper they wiped their @$$ with that morning. I couldn't think of a more-removed-from-society person than the one you described...

So you place no value on what a higher education professor teaches.

This is the problem.

The guy that told my daughter what they couldn't do from Oklahoma? He may have been an ass, but he wasn't wrong. Today my daughter actually DOES have one of "those" jobs in DC. She's a policy director for an NGO and she's not yet 30. But she didn't graduate from an Oklahoma school, she went to Swarthmore College outside Philly. She is part of our brain drain and actually proved him correct.

Saturday Morning: “Looks like a beautiful day outside! I’m going to check OKCTalk before I get ready and head out!”

-Skims though CHK thread-

Shuts garage door: “Man, I wonder if there’s enough gas in my tank to get the job done without having to suck on the tailpipe?”

Anyone just now realizing that Oklahoma has never had any sort of start-up culture, has almost zero tech, and has never been in the running for corporate relocations – yet hopes it will just magically happen despite very clear and obvious issues – is part of the problem and why there is no momentum towards progress despite a century of failure.

One of the funniest parts of the Canoo debacle was the fact that Oklahoma didn't even land the "headquarters" and lost out to Justin, Texas and Bentonville.

Oklahoma can't even land fake companies.

There’s going to be some opinion/bias in this wall of text, but when we look at our neighbors to the south, I don’t know that their politicians today value education any more than Oklahoma does, but they have individuals that do. Texas benefits today from education foundations that were created in the 1800’s, relatively moderate politicians in the 80’s and 90’s, and key benefactors for math and science. We can talk about the incremental improvements that our schools are making, but without substantial investment and an attitude change with a marked inflection point, we’ll never catch up. On a relative basis, here are a few areas that come to mind when thinking about comparative differences between the two:


Funding: Texas has two sovereign wealth funds that were established in the mid to late 1800’s for the purpose of supporting education. The Permanent University Fund today funds the University of Texas and Texas A&M systems. It was created when the Texas and Pacific Railroad donated 1 million acres in the West Texas to the state because it was too worthless to survey. Well... that became the Permian Basin and the PUF now has assets of $36 billion and contributes over $1 billion a year to those university systems. The other is the Permanent School Fund which helps fun the state’s public schools. Its original endowment came from monies the federal government paid the Republic of Texas for now New Mexico, Colorado, and Oklahoma. Later the state transferred half of the state's lands to the fund. That fund now has assets over $57 billion and contributes ~$2.5 billion a year to schools. It also provides a financial backstop to nearly all bonds issued by public school districts, which lowers their borrowing costs.


Individual benefactors in higher education: The closest thing Oklahoma has had here is T. Boone. This will probably be controversial in this forum, but most of his contributions didn’t really go towards helping the underlying competitiveness of the school in math and science. He made substantial contributions to the athletics department, and some other contributions which he ultimately required to be managed by his investment fund. I’d actually argue he made more meaningful contributions to Texas through his >$100 MM gifts to US Southwestern, MD Anderson, and Baylor Scott & White. In the MD Anderson example he game them $50 MM and required that they grow that into $500 MM within 20 years or it would revert to Oklahoma State. It took them 3 years to convert that to $500 MM and became the foundation of the Pickens Research Endowment, a missed opportunity for OSU. If you look at our billionaires around the state they aren’t really doing anything (outside of maybe the Kaiser family) to improve conditions for its residents. There’s a few that have signed the Giving Pledge, but we haven’t seen them make much progress (looking at you Harold Hamm, you aren’t getting any younger). These are the types of people that can make substantial progress for our schools and universities if they had passions they wanted to progress. I'll use George P Mitchell as an example. He had a fascination with physics and astronomy. While his contributions weren’t nearly as large monetarily as T. Boone, they were fundamental in even putting Texas physics on the map. He held retreats that brought in physicists from around the world to Texas, single-handedly bought Texas A&M and the University of Texas’ way into the Giant Magellan telescope project in Chile to work with Harvard and other prestigious international organizations, and donated ~$100MM for buildings and professorships for the physics department. Stephen Hawking has lectured at A&M because of Mitchell. I still remember having lunch on the rooftop of the physics building and Stephen Hawking came through with his caretakers as they sat outside for a minute. He was also fundamental is getting the Superconducting Super Collider in Texas which would have been 3x more powerful than the LHC at CERN – funding for that got pulled by the feds with the end of the Cold War. All of this to say, having these benefactors with passions and vision for math and science are incredible important – I don’t see David Green helping us out here.


Early settlers: The Texas Triangle was heavily settled by Germans and had outsized influence in Texas politics in the mid to late 1800’s and were heavily involved in pushing for higher education.


Land Ownership: Fast growing areas often have better schools and it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy. People like Edmond and Deer Creek schools (they’re both ok) and so they try and move there. Oklahoma’s fragmented land ownership (at least close to cities) limits the scale necessary for planned communities. Many places in other states have tons of huge 2,000+ home communities that have integrated neighborhood schools. Now you can argue all day against this type of urban sprawl, but these types of development can have more place making and sense of community where people support these embedded neighborhood schools – but all of that is driven by ownership of the families that live there. It's easier to pass bonds for these schools because they're "your" schools and people have more of a vested interest in them. Investment in the schools is an investment in your own neighborhood and property value. When you've got all these random assortment of 100-200 home neighborhoods where people are "different" than you, its harder to foster that sense of community. If all of our decision makers live off on their 1-5+ acre properties and don’t want to see their neighbors and send their kids to private school because they want them to be surrounded by like minded people and because the public schools are indoctrinating kids, then we will never get good public schools.



Ok, I’m done ranting and I’m sure there’s lots that people disagree with, so light it up.

That wasn't the reason.

Just finished Gate's new book "Source Code". It is a great read. Micro-Soft located in ABQ because their first customer (MITS) was located there. MITS was acquired by a larger company who tried to violate the MITS exclusive license agreement with Micro-Soft. Micro-Soft won in arbitration and was free to do business with anyone. Micro-Soft then left ABQ because Gates and Allen were homesick, not because NM was an uneducated state.

Paul liked NM enough to purchase a $12 million estate outside of Santa Fe
https://virtualglobetrotting.com/map/paul-allens-house-4/view/google/

Txag, Very good post, thanks for the history behind Texas education funding.

There are many states -- like 48 -- that have better education than Oklahoma, and most way, way better.

It's not just Texas.

And in which state do you live and teach?

And how is that relevant? I work in a specialized area with very few positions nationally. I didn’t flew to Texas or a anything. But I should have clarified what I meant… Oklahoma education needs investment more than anything. Plain and simple. Education is dramatically underfunded in Oklahoma. I actually think the people support education, but the legislature is out of line with the people. A lot if the other analysis is just speculation and projection.

^

Everybody agrees funding is the issue.

^

Everybody agrees funding is the issue.

Agree with you on that! But it isn't a solely funding issue. Other states spend less per student and are ranked significantly higher. It's a leadership issue, as well. It's a "how is the money being spent" issue.

This is a topic we need to discuss. This may not be the thread for it, but I appreciate you allowing some discussion, Pete!

^

Everybody agrees funding is the issue.
Then why is nothing done about it? Oklahoma always seems to be moving backwards here as of late. Why do people vote for the political leaders they vote for if they know nothing is being done to increase funding? Does anyone think Oklahomans would vote for a sizeable tax increase to improve higher education?

Then why is nothing done about it? Oklahoma always seems to be moving backwards here as of late. Why do people vote for the political leaders they vote for if they know nothing is being done to increase funding? Does anyone think Oklahomans would vote for a sizeable tax increase to improve higher education?

They have increased their per student spending a lot the last 5 years, but the leadership has been horrible. So what the spending is on is dumb, and not helpful.

They have increased their per student spending a lot the last 5 years, but the leadership has been horrible. So what the spending is on is dumb, and not helpful.

That's absolutely not true.

We are still a very long way from catching up to just average, so increases still leave us far behind.

Most of the increases have been spent on increased pay for teachers, and absolutely no one thinks that is 'dumb'.

I deleted due to getting political, which I want to avoid.

That wasn't the reason.

Just finished Gate's new book "Source Code". It is a great read. Micro-Soft located in ABQ because their first customer (MITS) was located there. MITS was acquired by a larger company who tried to violate the MITS exclusive license agreement with Micro-Soft. Micro-Soft won in arbitration and was free to do business with anyone. Micro-Soft then left ABQ because Gates and Allen were homesick, not because NM was an uneducated state.

Who's Micro-Soft?

Who's Micro-Soft?


Gates and Allen established Microsoft on April 4, 1975, with Gates as CEO,[15] and Allen suggested the name "Micro-Soft", short for micro-computer software.

original name idea

original name idea

Yeah it was sarcasm since it's Microsoft not Micro-Soft

There are many states -- like 48 -- that have better education than Oklahoma, and most way, way better.

It's not just Texas.

+1

+1

the most shocking “like” in the history of OKCTalk.

We have improved teacher pay, but we haven't really done all that much to get money into the classroom itself. Teachers are still underpaid as the raises have basically been lose to inflation that happened at the same time. As long as we're hiring this many emergency certified teachers, we're going to have a quality in the classroom issue too. We really have to look at education from the ground up and also stop with the politically driven dramafest that just detracts from improving education.

This isn't mean to be political, but take it for what you will. When Brad Henry was governor, he helped bring us as high as 17th in education. When he left office, he didn't accomplish everything he wanted to because the legislature kept pushing back. Teacher pay was a major issue that the legislature wouldn't budge on. Henry is a Democrat, the legislature in Oklahoma has been fully Republican for what, 40 years or something at this point? Under Falin, we dropped to 47th or something. Things got so bad that we had the teacher strike. Then came the flood of teachers becoming state legislators in an attempt to oust the hard-headed idiots that wouldn't do anything. We got some raises passed and SOME good was done. However, in terms of rank, it didn't budge. In comes Stit and we've dropped again to 49th. So we've had 16 years of Republican governors with Republic legislature. When one party controls both of those arms of the state government, there's really no where else to point the finger and blame but themselves. Walters has tried to find any sort of thing to blame and redirect people's eyes to distract from the fact that we continue to fall and get worse and worse every day.

How is that relevant to all of this?

Education has lost us several large company deals. At least with Canoo, I think the state gets most of its money back. But two battery deals went elsewhere because education in the state was so poor, they didn't want to subject their employees to it. For every one of those very public declarations, how many quite conversations like that happen? How many other companies failed to bother to even look here because of this. It's really a foundational issue that affects all of us, not just the kids in school right now. That issue comes back for years in terms of quality jobs, population either staying or leaving, research, etc. The federal cuts right now aren't helping that research either.

If we want to fill this much space, we need it to be a NEW company to the city. Otherwise, we're just moving someone around the city and emptying other space. We want net NEW. And we need education to do better to get that.