I keep hoping a large company will move to OKC and take them. Doesn't have to be Fortune 500, just a large company bring a lot of Jobs. But who knows.

I keep hoping a large company will move to OKC and take them. Doesn't have to be Fortune 500, just a large company bring a lot of Jobs. But who knows.

There's always an outside chance that Diamondback may move their HQ here from Midland and take up more space than they are currently but it wouldn't be enough to take up more than a building or two at most.

There's always an outside chance that Diamondback may move their HQ here from Midland and take up more space than they are currently but it wouldn't be enough to take up more than a building or two at most.

I remember you mentioning this in the past, and it's certainly an interesting thought given Diamondback's problems with the City of Midland as of late. That being said, do you have any other evidence that this may be a possibility, or just a hunch you have?

I feel like the main campus will eventually get bought up by a relatively big employer. It's such a great location. I know American Fidelity has offices all over, Paycom has the offices off Reno, I believe Love's is in several buildings outside of their headquarters. I feel like it would be a great land for American Fidelity especially owing to the short distance between here and their HQ. They could use the soccer field and some of the other amenities for sure. This site would sure beat some of the ho hum offices they have some divisions in off of Portland.

I don't think American Fidelity is interested in buying any properties. They have a lot of land they could build on at their current campus if they really wanted to.

I remember you mentioning this in the past, and it's certainly an interesting thought given Diamondback's problems with the City of Midland as of late. That being said, do you have any other evidence that this may be a possibility, or just a hunch you have?

Pretty much what you said: Just posturing from Diamondback, issues in Midland, rumors among those who work there and the fact that OKC is just an easier place to recruit talent and have an HQ. Nothing concrete but it would make a ton of sense.

Pretty much what you said: Just posturing from Diamondback, issues in Midland, rumors among those who work there and the fact that OKC is just an easier place to recruit talent and have an HQ. Nothing concrete but it would make a ton of sense.

Would be awesome for the city, no doubt about that.

Would be awesome for the city, no doubt about that.

That it would. Regardless, It's great that they took some space on the campus for the offices that they already had here. Just a better location for them in general and helps bring some life to the area.

How viable would it be to turn this campus into a public school? It seems like it would be a homerun, but I honestly don't know anything about how viable it would be.

How viable would it be to turn this campus into a public school? It seems like it would be a homerun, but I honestly don't know anything about how viable it would be.

It's very expensive real estate. It seems the best use for the 'brick' part of the campus would be housing and one or two hotels.

All the buildings to the east of Classen will almost certainly stay office use.

But there is still a ton of undeveloped land between those office buildings and the train tracks. Seems like another great spot for housing.

The area in red will soon be completely vacated.

It seems they could dedicate Garage #2 (plus the garage below the play field) to whatever happens there and still have 3 big garages for everything else. (Maybe Garage #1 but it is attached to Building 13 which is partially leased to another company. Garage #4 will be able to house all of CHK's staff -- 700 staff, well over 1,000 spaces.)

Outlined in green is undeveloped land owned by Chesapeake. They've already sold a ton to MidFirst.

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/chk052524a.jpg

Might be a good place for an extension to an existing college campus.

Just me or is MidFirst a pretty useless landlord? They don’t develop much, if anything. I could be unaware, but it seems like they own a ton of stuff in the vicinity, but it sits empty/vacant unless they’re specifically using it.

Just me or is MidFirst a pretty useless landlord? They don’t develop much, if anything. I could be unaware, but it seems like they own a ton of stuff in the vicinity, but it sits empty/vacant unless they’re specifically using it.

This area is basically adjacent to some of their cooperate offices, so this is probably not something they are intending to develop for anyone but themselves. Given the age of their current building, unless they have done some renovation on their building recently, it might be cheaper/easier to move to a CHK building and also pick up some more space (possibly consolidating number offices), than eventually renovate while inhabiting the property.

Just me or is MidFirst a pretty useless landlord? They don’t develop much, if anything. I could be unaware, but it seems like they own a ton of stuff in the vicinity, but it sits empty/vacant unless they’re specifically using it.

If I were to speak as a friend of Satan, I would suggest that Nichols Hills area real estate maintains a strong value through any economic cycles. An advantage buyer, like MidFirst usually is in the area, can carry this as a held investment that grows faster than the rate of inflation, yet has a low risk of loss in value or becoming illiquid. If that banker decides to become a “visionary developer”, then they run the risk of becoming a major portion of documentaries, books, and Pulitzer Prize winning investigative journalism.

MidFirst has been renovating their buildings.

Just me or is MidFirst a pretty useless landlord? They don’t develop much, if anything. I could be unaware, but it seems like they own a ton of stuff in the vicinity, but it sits empty/vacant unless they’re specifically using it.They are a privately-owned bank, one of the largest in the country (if not THE largest). They're not developers, so it's not like they're going to build apartments or a hotel or whatever on land they purchased as a simple investment.

I'm actually happy they own this property. It's better than having it in the hands of out-of-state developers who don't have the best interests of Oklahoma City in mind.

^

There have been some prospective deals for the old Deep Fork property that never went forward.

They own that entire triangle and have for quite a while, so clearly they are in no hurry to do anything.

The area in red will soon be completely vacated.

I thought the two buildings in the lower right of that red outline were leased to state agencies? Or are they moving out as well?
Are they also going to close the fitness center facilities? I believe it's now that anyone can get a membership there.

I agree with some of the earlier posts. I see this area as ideal for some large multi-family developments with local retail.

I thought the two buildings in the lower right of that red outline were leased to state agencies? Or are they moving out as well?


Service Oklahoma just spent a chunk of change to renovate building 4 plus renting spaces in Garage 2. I doubt they are leaving.

Weird to see so few cars in their surface lots:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/chk091024a.jpg

Imagine transforming it into a cutting-edge college campus for AI, robotics, space exploration, and nanomaterials—Oklahoma Institute of Technology. It has the perfect vibe, where innovation meets futuristic technology. Picture labs filled with advanced AI systems, robotics, and students tackling projects that push the boundaries of science and engineering. It's more than just a school—it's the launchpad for Oklahoma's future.

Imagine transforming it into a cutting-edge college campus for AI, robotics, space exploration, and nanomaterials—Oklahoma Institute of Technology. It has the perfect vibe, where innovation meets futuristic technology. Picture labs filled with advanced AI systems, robotics, and students tackling projects that push the boundaries of science and engineering. It's more than just a school—it's the launchpad for Oklahoma's future.

have an extra 10 billion sitting around??

I guess $10B won't be enough.

You could throw $100B at it and it wouldn't matter. It's where the talent and institutional support is. It would take a seismic shift to get a true exodus out of Silicon Valley. Even Austin just lost Oracle to Nashville. Peter Thiel just recently talked about it on Joe Rogan.

Imagine transforming it into a cutting-edge college campus for AI, robotics, space exploration, and nanomaterials—Oklahoma Institute of Technology. It has the perfect vibe, where innovation meets futuristic technology. Picture labs filled with advanced AI systems, robotics, and students tackling projects that push the boundaries of science and engineering. It's more than just a school—it's the launchpad for Oklahoma's future.

The schools it would want to compete against have hundreds of years of cache and alumni, and that alone would make it impossible to succeed. There is a reason there has been what, maybe 3 successful new colleges in the last 50 years. Too much cost, not enough ROi.

Almost all of the old Chesapeake Energy (now Expand Energy) campus on the southeast corner of NW 63rd and Western was officially listed for sale today.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/chk022025aa.jpg


The property spans 103 acres and includes 26 buildings totaling 1.8 million square feet of Class A office space.

There is also a 67,000-square-foot fitness center with two basketball courts, a pool,and climbing wall as well as a sports field with a running track.

Included are four restaurants with full kitchens and seating areas, 4 parking garages with over 3,000 spaces, and 33 acres of undeveloped land. A childcare facility will continue to operate independently.

The campus includes creeks, fountains, and heavy landscaping.

Expand Energy is in the process of consolidating its roughly 1,000 employees into what is known as Building 15 and will retain the parking garage to the south. Building 13 along NW 63rd Street is currently leased to other tenants and will also be retained along with the attached parking structure.

Rand Elliott Architects designed the campus. No asking price is listed.

At one time Chesapeake employed over 5,000 employees on site.


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/chk022025a.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/chk022025c.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/chk022025d.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/chk022025e.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/chk022025f.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/chk022025g.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/chk022025j.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/chk022025h.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/chk022025i.jpg

Just hard for me to see a company buying this, unless it's for a corporate relocation. Maybe an investment company to sit on it for a while. It's so much space. I guess it could be turned into housing.

Have you heard anything behind the scenes, Pete?

They have been trying to sell a bunch of the buildings and vacant land -- sometimes individually and sometimes as a lot -- for some time.

They were also looking for a development partner for a while.


There is almost zero demand for office space right now. We've talked about converting the core campus to housing, but that's incredibly expensive because you have to plumb every single unit.

My gut feeling is this is going to sit for a long time. They've effectively been looking for buyers for about a decade.

Government or some type of higher education seems the easiest.

Like office space, higher ed is struggling mightily.

It would almost have to be some combo of hotel and housing, although it's hard to imagine one developer taking all of this on.

The title of this thread and the current name of the company is pretty ironic.

I've been doing some work on some large office properties recently and have noticed that the long-term sentiment is starting to recover a bit. Everyone knows office is getting hammered right now and in the near-term, there will continue to be significant operational/occupancy struggles and continued conversions of obsolete office properties. As discussed up thread COVID/work from home kicked off a shift in demand for the type and size of space and that is becoming more clear now that we're a few years removed from this disruption. The last few years I spoke with multiple owners that were ready to completely divest of their office assets but there's been a noticeable uptick in investors looking to "take a shot" on the long term outlook of large office. There is a significant "discount" today based on the current landscape and in-place operations, if you're willing to bet on the recovery of the office market in the future.

It will be fascinating to see what happens with this property and office in general. Barring any large new entry to the market or a local company expanding/relocating their headquarters, I generally agree that these will sit for a while and likely be sold off in swaths to various users. I've long heard that MFB is interested in some of the campus but that's been floated around for years with no action.

I know at one time, the State took a hard look at some of the larger office buildings in what would have been similar to what they did with the old Sandridge Tower.

I could see them buying the campus through their property ownership arm, then partnering with a developer for the ample open lots.

That seems to be about the only hope for the campus staying office property in the near future.


It all still looks very nice from the outside, but it's almost vacant these days and that's a big drag on the local economy and neighboring businesses.

Still surprised Oklahoma City University wasn't interested in any of it to expand their campus.

This would be great for a large HQ relocation or expansion. I don't see how we'd be able to fit any Amazon warehouses here, however.

Still surprised Oklahoma City University wasn't interested in any of it to expand their campus.

Small, private, non-prestigious colleges are really hurting right now and will continue to well into the future.

I can't imagine how any educational institution could come close to the purchase price, especially because most are struggling with what they have now.

I know at one time, the State took a hard look at some of the larger office buildings in what would have been similar to what they did with the old Sandridge Tower.

I could see them buying the campus through their property ownership arm, then partnering with a developer for the ample open lots.

That seems to be about the only hope for the campus staying office property in the near future.


It all still looks very nice from the outside, but it's almost vacant these days and that's a big drag on the local economy and neighboring businesses.

The DMV operates out of Building 4. It's under the Service Oklahoma brand. It's the nicest, most dysfunctional building for its use in the entire metro. I go there all the time to pull titles and it's a zoo every single minute of operation. People are nice and competent, but the building wasn't designed for that kind of human traffic.

would make a very nice campus for the federal government, similar to the Federal District in Denver. However, with the efficiency effort this may be a longer term idea than current.

Maybe the city could take a grab, aren't they starved for space? (most similarly sized cities have way more office space than OKC with its one midrise).

The Chesapeake Fitness Center has offered memberships to the public for some time. The facility is very nice, well-maintained and clean. I hope that continues.

How many companies based in OKC could realistically fill up all this office space?

How many companies based in OKC could realistically fill up all this office space?

Other than the state, I'd say only Paycom. And they obviously are busy developing their own campus.

Almost all our big employers do not require a large, central HQ: Integris, Mercy, Braum's, Hobby Lobby, the school districts. Even Devon only has about 1,400 employees these days and that campus was built for around 5,000.

Maybe the Chickasaws would buy it as an investment? They seem to be behind almost every large real estate deal in and around OKC.

I believe someone else mentioned this in an aspirational manner earlier in the thread, but a Denver Tech Center style development would be a nice pipe dream for this area, albeit OKC isn’t a tech hub and the industry as a whole seems to be going through some growing pains at the moment.

Until the state gets serious about education and developing skilled workers, we will be fighting for scraps like Canoo.

And there is no energy behind any type of real start-up culture here (also a function of poor education), either, so we're not getting many home-grown companies (Paycom being the notable and almost singular exception).

How many companies based in OKC could realistically fill up all this office space?Less than 5, I would say, and all of them would have office space they already own.

Until the state gets serious about education and developing skilled workers, we will be fighting for scraps like Canoo.

And there is no energy behind any type of real start-up culture here (also a function of poor education), either, so we're not getting many home-grown companies (Paycom being the notable and almost singular exception).

We're being killed with no concrete plans to improve the quality of education in Oklahoma (Public Schools or Higher Education), hence the lost and potential lost of quality teachers in Oklahoma.

Pete, we have a nice incentive package like the Oklahoma Quality Jobs Act incentive program.

Let's hope we can turn this situation around. Our city is poised for growth and with plenty of room in the Oklahoma City Metropolitan Area.

Once Walters pisses off and goes his merry way (a lot of people are starting to oppose him, which is good) then OK education will benefit greatly. Higher Ed is already in the 20s, in terms of funding, due to quality leadership there. The problem is that Walters position is an elected one, where as the Chancellor of the regents is a hired position. So it isn't the most qualified who gets hired, but the most politically savvy.

Walters is a symptom of a much larger problem. Not sure how it gets resolved so we can have a better educated work force that could lead to better opportunities.

^

Our educational issues go back much farther than the current leaders.

It's a mindset to constantly cut taxes instead of investing in our future. "Come here because we're cheap" is a counterproductive strategy.

The only reason OKC has done better than the state as a whole is due to the citizenry voting to tax itself about a dozen times. OKC should serve as a great example to the rest of the state but instead, we have to constantly work to offset their sabotage.

^ Yep.

^

Our educational issues go back much farther than the current leaders.

It's a mindset to constantly cut taxes instead of investing in our future. "Come here because we're cheap" is a counterproductive strategy.

The only reason OKC has done better than the state as a whole is due to the citizenry voting to tax itself about a dozen times. OKC should serve as a great example to the rest of the state but instead, we have to constantly work to offset their sabotage.

Oklahoma's educational policy has basically become national policy at this point so I wouldn't hold my breath for anything changing.

Considering a large corporation could relocate 200 miles south of here and their executives take advantage of zero corporate tax and zero state income tax for their employees, chances of winning a new HQ relocation are extremely low. Better off splitting it up between smaller office space and residential. It's a great location for both.

^

Our educational issues go back much farther than the current leaders.

It's a mindset to constantly cut taxes instead of investing in our future. "Come here because we're cheap" is a counterproductive strategy.

The only reason OKC has done better than the state as a whole is due to the citizenry voting to tax itself about a dozen times. OKC should serve as a great example to the rest of the state but instead, we have to constantly work to offset their sabotage.

It's a deeper cultural issue that starts in the home.
OK as a culture doesn't put as much emphasis on education as say the NE. Funding won't fix that.
New Mexico is the same way culturally. They are 26th in per pupil but 50th in education.

https://okea.org/oklahoma-remains-last-in-the-region-in-per-pupil-expenditures/

Considering a large corporation could relocate 200 miles south of here and their executives take advantage of zero corporate tax and zero state income tax for their employees, chances of winning a new HQ relocation are extremely low. Better off splitting it up between smaller office space and residential. It's a great location for both.

A large corporation probably does business in every state as well. DFW has 260 direct destinations. That's a huge selling point.

Gonna have to be home grown companies.

^

We lack a great university of any sort, and that's a massive disadvantage, no matter the situation at home.

You won't find one state with a lot of tech and startups and no universities in the top 100; most have top 25 schools.

You don't have to grow a skilled workforce from childhood, you just need bright, motivated people to come to the state for college and then all types of good things (startups, innovation, well-paid employers) follow.

^

We lack a great university of any sort, and that's a massive disadvantage, no matter the situation at home.

You won't find one state with a lot of tech and startups and no universities in the top 100; most have top 25 schools.

Exactly and we don't have the private schooling system the NE has that feeds into the IVY league which feeds into the finance world.

It takes decades to build those institutions. The NE was building them while OK was battling the dust bowl or wasn't even a state.

Exactly and we don't have the private schooling system the NE has that feeds into the IVY league which feeds into the finance world.

It takes decades to build those institutions. The NE was building them while OK was battling the dust bowl or wasn't even a state.

That does not apply to California, or Austin, or the Research Triangle, or Seattle... All places where start-ups and techs gave gone wild. Almost the innovators in those places were drawn from elsewhere by great universities.

There is no easy fix but the first place we should start is turning OU into a much, much better school.

That does not apply to California, or Austin, or the Research Triangle, or Seattle... All places where start-ups and techs gave gone wild. Almost the innovators in those places were drawn from elsewhere by great universities.

There is no easy fix but the first place we should start is turning OU into a much, much better school.

California has natural environment advantages that rival any place in the entire world.
Seattle has Microsoft which paved the way for Amazon.

OU being a top 50 school would be a great first step. But rural, who control the legislature, do not put emphasis and the University system and that's cultural. Which is my OG point, it's less about the money, and more about what OK culturally values.

OSU was making great strides then Jimmy Harrell forced Shrum to resign. Harrell is a rancher from Western OK.

Seattle had Microsoft in the first place due to Udub.

All these tech jobs happen because of great universities and the culture follows, not the other way around.

Seattle had Microsoft in the first place due to Udub.

All these tech jobs happen because of great universities and the culture follows, not the other way around.

If families value education, educational success rate go up regardless of funding. It why the NE has extremely well funded public schools and even better private schools. Even though the public schools are good and well funded, a huge % of people still spend on top of that to put their kids in private schools, because they value educational attainment.

So first the culture must change, then funding will follow because the culture changed.

Throwing money at it, without a change in culture will not change achievement rates. It's literally played out exactly like that in New Mexico. The state lost a lawsuit in 2016(ish) per pupil spending and teacher pay has gone significantly higher with no increase in math science reading proficiency test scores. From 50th to 50th.