Seeing as we lead the free world in laws designed to restrict fun (Slight exaggeration) :kicking:

4-foot rule's defeat means Seattle reverts to old law


It looks like lap dances will remain legal in Seattle.

With a no vote on Seattle Referendum 1, voters were firmly rejecting the city's "four-foot rule," which would have banned lap dances by requiring exotic dancers and customers to keep their distance.

The rule was part of a strict new strip-club ordinance approved by the Seattle City Council last year. The ordinance also would have banned direct tipping of dancers, forced clubs to install brighter lights and prohibited private dances some clubs offer in "VIP" rooms or booths.

Such regulations are common in more conservative suburbs. But they apparently went against the grain of Seattle's urban electorate.

"I think Seattle is more open-minded and liberal than our politicians give us credit for being," said Tim Killian, campaign manager for Seattle Citizens for Free Speech, the strip-club-funded campaign to overturn the rules, which were not being enforced pending the vote. The campaign was as lopsided as any in Seattle history, with clubs raising $866,000 for the effort to overturn the four-foot rule; supporters of the rule raised nothing. The clubs used the money to pay for TV ads portraying supporters of the ordinance as moral scolds.

Seeing as we lead the free world in laws designed to restrict fun (Slight exaggeration)

It's called respecting morals.

It's called forcing others to live by your morals.

It's called having morals.

based on your opinion. Last time I checked, morals are a personal issue.

based on your opinion. Last time I checked, morals are a personal issue.

In other words, no absolutes. Everyone create their own sense of what's right and wrong. Sounds like a good plan to me. Lets do away with government laws altogether.

I personally like the term ethics better:

Ethics, N,: the rules of conduct recognized in respect to a particular class of human actions or a particular group, culture, etc.: medical ethics; Christian ethics.

Hmmm, don't see anything about it being a personal matter. That's from Webster's.

whatever patrick. If you feel like having an argument about morals, go ahead and do it. Maybe we can get Christian Conservative and TheComedian back here to chime in about what is right and wrong.

Apparently, the majority of the population in Seattle is without morals, according to you.

yeah, and you used the word morals first...not ethics

Patrick probably thinks tattoos and the lottery are morally and ethically wrong too. Perhaps the government should once again forbid those actions?

Okay, okay.

Morals, N: Conforming to standards of what is right or just in behavior according to the beliefs of a culture; virtuous: a moral life.

Patrick probably thinks tattoos and the lottery are morally and ethically wrong too. Perhaps the government should once again regulate those actions?

Nope, I voted yes for the lottery.

Hmmm...and what are the beliefs of our culture?

Well, our legal system is based on judeo-Christian values.

As I said, apparently the voters of Seattle are lacking morals and are probably heathens

You call it morals...I call it the Fun Police

That referendum if passed would have put a lot of med and law school students stripping their way through school out of luck :Smiley247

You call it morals...I call it the Fun Police

That referendum if passed would have put a lot of med and law school students stripping their way through school out of luck :Smiley247

Sorry, you can't work in medical school. So it wouldn't have affected us.

As I said, apparently the voters of Seattle are lacking morals and are probably heathens

I don't believe I stated that anywhere.

I don't believe I ever said you did. Based on your haughty comments, it is inferred, though.

Judeo-Christian

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Judeo-Christian (or Judaeo-Christian) is a term used to describe the body of concepts and values which are thought to be held in common by Judaism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism) and Christianity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity), and typically considered (sometimes along with classical (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_antiquity) Greco-Roman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Roman) civilization) a fundamental basis for Western (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world) legal codes and moral values.

What gets me is that those who wanted this law to be passed probably wouldn't ever step into one of those places. So how does a lap dance they will never receive hurt them?

I lump it in the same boat as television or movie watching: if you don't like what's on TV or showing at the theater, don't turn on the TV or buy a ticket. But don't force others to conform to your beliefs.

I'm Intrepid, and that's my two cents. (I think I actually threw up a little as I was typing that) :doh:

:tiphat:

It's called having morals.
I agree wholeheartedly with that.

I agree wholeheartedly with that.

While I totally respect, and believe you're entitled to your morals, they are just that, yours. They shouldn't be forced on others with opposing points of view.

While I totally respect, and believe you're entitled to your morals, they are just that, yours. They shouldn't be forced on others with opposing points of view.
Don't get testy. I am not forcing my opinions on anyone, I am just stating them....like you are. I do have that right, you know. So put your guns away.

What gets me is that those who wanted this law to be passed probably wouldn't ever step into one of those places. So how does a lap dance they will never receive hurt them?

I lump it in the same boat as television or movie watching: if you don't like what's on TV or showing at the theater, don't turn on the TV or buy a ticket. But don't force others to conform to your beliefs.

I'm Intrepid, and that's my two cents. (I think I actually threw up a little as I was typing that) :doh:

:tiphat:
Calm down....nobody is forcing anything on you....but we do have our opinions.

Well, our legal system is based on judeo-Christian values.

Really? How?

Having studied the law quite extensively, I could have sworn it was based on statutory law and common law.

I don't recall a class on the Bible or the Torah.. Although we do have Jewish and Christian holidays off... yep.. it all makes sense now. Thanks ;)

Calm down....nobody is forcing anything on you....but we do have our opinions.

I am calm. I am not testy. I do not think my posts inferred otherwise. I also believe I said that I respect yours (and others) morals and your right to have them.

I am sorry that you felt I was being testy, but that's what happens sometimes with posts. They are taken out of context, or misconstrued in some way than what they were intended. Perhaps that's what has happened here.

Geez, Intrepid...I can't believe you were getting so out of control with your posts! :D

Unless someone is actually forced into my lap - but never mind, let's not go there.

Really? How?

Having studied the law quite extensively, I could have sworn it was based on statutory law and common law.

I don't recall a class on the Bible or the Torah.. Although we do have Jewish and Christian holidays off... yep.. it all makes sense now. Thanks ;)

Ah, I just quote Wikipedia. Wikipedia is omniscient, did you not know that?

We all get testy at times. Me included. And I admit, I've been a bit testy lately. No problem Intrepid. I understand the problem.

And BTW, who said men can't have PMS? I know that doesn't even relate to the topic, but maybe a thought for another thread! :)

Geez, Intrepid...I can't believe you were getting so out of control with your posts! :D

Perhaps I need anger management???

:fighting3

We all get testy at times. Me included. And I admit, I've been a bit testy lately. No problem Intrepid. I understand the problem.

LOL. What's funny about it is that I wasn't attacking anyone, being testy, and was perfectly calm. I guess that it is all in the way one perceives things. Who knows?


And BTW, who said men can't have PMS? I know that doesn't even relate to the topic, but maybe a thought for another thread! :)

I've read many articles on that same topic, and I'm sure as a Dr., you've seen scientific evidence to that affect? Perhaps you can discuss that in another forum.

Don't get testy. I am not forcing my opinions on anyone, I am just stating them....like you are. I do have that right, you know. So put your guns away.
How was that testy? By forcing opinions on others I think we was referring to the laws, not you going around personally kicking people out of strip bars. :D

It's called forcing others to live by your morals.

What's your view on murder?

They shouldn't be forced on others with opposing points of view.

So, if I support murder you shouldn't force your opposing views on me, right?

Last time I checked, no one died from a lap dance. But sure, Luke. However you want to argue this thing.

Last time I checked, no one died from a lap dance. But sure, Luke. However you want to argue this thing.

Are you sure about that? I'm pretty sure there's been many a guy (and perhaps a girl) that's said they had died and gone to Heaven after a lap dance.

:tiphat:

LOL! Good point! Perhaps they should make lap dances illegal. :D

LOL! Good point! Perhaps they should make lap dances illegal. :D

Then people will just go to back alleys and get illegal lap dances.

ROFL! Well, then they deserve whatever they get! Those illegal coat hanger abortions have nothing on those illegal lap dances.

I'm simply taking your statement to its logical conclusion. I'm not connecting lap dances and murder (or abortion?). I'm connecting your REASON for accepting lap dances and applying that REASON to another issue.

"[You shouldn't force] others to live by your morals" is a very scary reason to accept something. Taken to its logical conclusion, murder could be accepted if one thought it not immoral. (I was hoping that point would be grasped, to no avail)

Also, mockery in lieu of a substantive response won't ever help anyone to see it from your side.

Luke, there is a concept called "human law" which has been the domain of a lot of philosophers since the days of the Ancient Greeks. Many found that there existed in man certain rights which should be inalienable.

Our very own Declaration of Independence makes reference to these inalienable rights as does our Constitution in the 9th Amendment. In fact, there is far more evidence appearing on the face of those documents that the founding fathers of this nation based their view of law more on the prevention of the government from interfering with our inalienable rights than the documents appear to want to set out some sort of judeo-christian theocracy as some here would suggest.

Human rights would include things like life, liberty, property, security, etc. I think that even in Oklahoma, at the heart of the Bible Belt, our conservative legislators unwittingly legislate from a human rights standpoint rather than some sort of judeochristian one. For example, look at our recent gun laws. The right to kill an intruder onto one's property has recently been expanded to include those who would mess with your car, private property, etc. Where in the Bible does it say "Killeth the sunumbitch whence he doth disturbeth thy property or expresseth an intent to do so." It ain't in there.

So to answer your question Luke, there are many of us who approach the law and its effects from a human rights standpoint. So to answer your murder question, murder is bad, really, really bad. It seems that every society whether it be based on the 'inalienable rights' doctrine as ours and most modern western societies or it be based on Sharia law, Communism, eastern thought, whatever, murder is bad because it violates what all societies see as a general right to life.

Libertarians largely subscribe to the human rights doctrine. In essence, they think that "My rights end where yours begin" and that this statement is a good fundamental principle to base laws on.

For example, my right to pay my way through law school as a chippendales dancer doesn't have any effect whatsoever on you or anyone other than the women I dance for, coworkers, etc. Thus, you really have no right to tell me to stop. FWIW, I do actually know of a girl stripping her way through law school right now :)

For example, my right to pay my way through law school as a chip 'n dale's dancer doesn't have any effect whatsoever on you or anyone other than the women I dance for, coworkers, etc. Thus, you really have no right to tell me to stop. FWIW, I do actually know of a girl stripping her way through law school right now :)

Midtowner, please do not think that this was the only thing I got out of your post. I thought it was very well written and thought out and I do agree with what you said.

However, the thought of you dressed up as a Disney chipmunk (Chip or Dale, your choice) as a way to work thru law school left me laughing really hard.

Thanks for the laugh (whether it was intentional or not)

:tiphat:

However, the thought of you dressed up as a Disney chipmunk (Chip or Dale, your choice) as a way to work thru law school left me laughing really hard.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v291/Mad_Monk/Smileys/lool.gif
LMAO! That was great. Thanks for the laugh.

Okay, I fixed the spelling.. I've never actually seen chippendale's written out before (I'm not a big fan).

And yes, FWIW, the pictures of me either in a furry costume or in a bow tie and speedo are equally hilarious/scary/to-be-avoided-at-all-costs.

So, if I support murder you shouldn't force your opposing views on me, right?

Oh Lord. Now we're comparing lap dances to murder? Reminds me of when people start talking about people marrying their dogs when the subject of gay marriage comes up. I will never be in the market for a lap dance, but if my neighbor wants to go get one, what's it to me? Like someone else said, if you don't like lap dances, don't go to a strip joint. Geesh!

Oh Lord. Now we're comparing lap dances to murder?

No, you missed the point. I'm not comparing lap dances to murder. I'm comparing the reasoning that someone gave for supporting lapdances (morals shouldn't be forced on others) and applying that reasoning to a different scenario. The reasoning doesn't work.