Mon May 7, 2007
Bennett, Sonics could find way out of Key Arena lease

By Darnell Mayberry
The Oklahoman

The wording is identical in each case.

Ironclad. Binding. Unbreakable.

But when it comes to stadium and arena leases between cities and pro sports franchises, history proves there is always a way out.


Rarely have cities been successful in keeping a team from relocating by holding the owners to a lease when years remain on the contract.

The Seattle SuperSonics, with a potential move to Oklahoma City looming, could become the latest franchise to get out of its lease early to relocate.

The Sonics' lease at Key Arena runs through 2010. Although owner Clay Bennett has committed to playing next season in Seattle, he has placed an Oct. 31 deadline on city officials to agree to a new arena that would replace the team's current outdated home.

If no deal is reached and the Sonics try to relocate after next season, they would have two years remaining on their lease. But getting out of those final two years might prove to be the easiest hurdle to clear.

Bennett likely would have to pay off the lease, which is believed to be about $1 million in rent, plus any damages imposed on Seattle for lost revenue.

Seattle could agree to negotiate with the Sonics and allow them to leave or try and force them to stay through litigation.

"In any kind of these situations there has to be a price at which somebody can buy out of something,” said Allen Sanderson, an economist at the University of Chicago who has testified at the Washington State Capitol saying that the absence of the Sonics makes little difference to the city of Seattle in terms of lost revenues.

"Whatever the law may say, there's still a lot of settlement possibilities. There are certainly leases in which somebody can get out of legally. In the end, there'll be some price that each side is willing to pay.”

Only two NBA franchises have relocated in the past 20 years.

The Charlotte Hornets, who moved to New Orleans in 2002, had an expiring lease.

The Vancouver Grizzlies, who moved to Memphis in 2001, had four years remaining on their lease with Orca Bay and GM Place with a price tag of $2 million per year. It's unclear what arrangements Grizzlies owner Michael Heisley made with Orca Bay to free himself of the lease. Calls to GM Place officials were unsuccessful.

Before the NFL's Houston Oilers relocated to Tennessee in 1997 they had one year remaining on their lease at the Astrodome. But city officials let the Oilers out of the final year of the contract after reaching an agreement with the franchise in which the Oilers would pay Harris County $3.5 million over four years.

When Cleveland Browns owner Art Modell moved his franchise to Baltimore in 1996, he had three years remaining on a 25-year lease. Cleveland city officials filed a lawsuit against Modell in an attempt to force him to honor the lease. But three days before the suit went to trial, NFL owners approved the move and

Well, it's actually the flippers that are getting burned. It doesn't really say much about what the people who actually live in those houses can and can not afford.

I'm certainly won't cry any tears for greedy speculators who are the primary ones to blame for hyper inflation of housing prices in certain markets. Greed is one of those seven deadlies.

However, lots of regular people are indeed being hurt by the situation as well. Many of those home buyers were not rich and got suckered in by misleading variations of sub-prime loans -which many now call "liar loans." The buyer thinks he's getting a mortage with a fixed rate. The broker tells him he's getting a fixed rate. But the sneaky fine print buried in reams worth of paper hides the truth.

It's granted that some of those buyers knew they were taking a heck of a risk. Countless millions of Americans love over-extending themselves to chase after life styles they cannot afford. With all these foreclosures happening, I'd look for a spike in the divorce rate.

Still, those sub-prime brokers know the immoral garbage they're pulling. They're in the seedy camp with people who run legalized loan-shark operations -er, I mean "pay day loans" operations.


"In any kind of these situations there has to be a price at which somebody can buy out of something,” said Allen Sanderson, an economist at the University of Chicago who has testified at the Washington State Capitol saying that the absence of the Sonics makes little difference to the city of Seattle in terms of lost revenues.

Actually, one figure I read suggested Key Arena was actually losing money by keeping the SuperSonics basketball team there. Attendance has been terrible. The arena could probably do better booking lots of concerts and other events.

Bobby,

My impression from the City of Seattle is that the Soncis were actually costing the city money. If that is the case then Seattle should have to pay the Sonics to leave. According to the paper the city was only making $1,000,000 a year in rent. I am sure they were spending more than that relating to game day activities.

Yeah, I think this is just Bennett doing his homework - obviously the NBA is making him do this.

But truth is - while vegas is growing and approaching 2M residents - look at the median income there. .. Im sure it is no where near OKC or near as "STABLE" as OKC. Besides that, with them DEPENDING on transient ticket sales - who in their right mind would want to sell season tix in Vegas - when no one (or few) who lives there would buy it?

Vegas would have a 4 year window to get an arena up and running - that puts them at least 2012 - the Sonics will be in OKC LONG BEFORE THEN!!!

Don't get too worried about the latest "news" about Vegas. I bet it is an attempt to get Seattle doing something - but hey, its Mid May almost and absolutely NOTHING is happening here.

Like I said, I bet an announcement will take place after the finals - and it will most likely be that OKC will get the team. I also predict it will be 2007, but 2008 is not bad - a slap in Seattle's face and a tar in the NBA's brand but it would give OKC time to upgrade the Ford Center. Im sure Bennett would rather be in OKC (vs the current situation in Seattle) for 2007 regardless of Ford's upgrade but it might be the best thing to wait.

I hate waiting!! I wish Okies had the b*lls to JUST DO IT!! when it comes to these things. You dont see anyone else dragging their feet or apologizing about business decisions/relocations whatever or selling out their home city/state, except Oklahomans!!

OKC built Dallas, OKC built Nashville, and OKC built much of Houston not to mention a portion of Los Angeles!. All of those cities would be half as big if it weren't for investment/businesses or population or both coming from Oklahoma City. Its time OKC demands the reinvestment from its people!!


I thought we were past that crap, I hope (and believe) we are - and that OKC will be the home to the SONICS, be it 2007 or 2008.
IF NOT, ILL JOIN THE "CLAY BENNETT TAR FESTIVAL" at Will Rogers International Airport!!!

There is some news concerning the Oklahoma City, er uh, Seattle SuperSonics. Bennett, who has been at home in OKC for the past few weeks no doubt after getting hushed by Stern for talking about Las Vegas when we all know he is moving the team to OKC, showed up in Seattle on Saturday for the WNBA. While here, of course, the media interviewed him.

There is word that a local interest, by the name of David Sabey, owns a very large building due south of Boeing field airport (S. Seattle). Currently, the building is used as a grocery warehouse but Sabey has said that he might desire to turn it into a convention center with an arena that could be used for the Sonics. Sabey has said that his idea of a convention center will not cator ONLY to the Sonics but would instead be a palace of sorts for local businesses. He said that an arena could be added for the Sonics but that they would not get priority.

Sabey also said he'd like to be a minority owner but definitely does not want to own the Sonics or any other NBA team. Furthermore, even his convention center "idea" is contingent on local corporate support, he mentions Boeing and Microsoft specifically.

I think -

this is too little too late. Previous owner, billionaire and Starbucks CEO Howard Schultz, asked the local community for a buyer last year but nobody stepped up. In comes Bennett, who paid $350M for the teams - a premium price. Nobody is going to step forward and buy the team for that price in order to make it worth Bennett's while. And I hardly doubt The Boeing Company, now headquartered in Chicago - a real big city with big city convention centers, sports, and entertainment among other things, cares about Seattle and its convention situation. I also dont think Microsoft cares either, since Seattle already has the Washington State Convention center in downtown, and there are at least 3 other major convention centers in the region - with Tacoma's downtown center as the next largest, followed by Bellevue's on the Eastside.

Why does Puget Sound need another convention center? and away from a city center/hotel district? Sounds like another pie-in-the-sky pitch that will be met with the same fate as the Renton proposal.

but nonetheless, it got people on the forums talking a little bit. The fans are trying to make something of this, saying that perhaps this events might MAKE the NBA force Bennett to sell the teams to David Sabey, and that the NBA would grant Bennett an expansion in OKC.

In a way, the last sentence is refreshing since Seattle fans used to be hard pressed at OKC even having a team. It appears that OKC folks joining in on the Seattle forums have informed Seattle fans of OKC's viability and support of the Hornets, so at least they now regard OKC as viable but still not worthy of 'their' Sonics.

Nevertheless, this is all that I have heard. It looks to me like there will be an announcement this summer, I have heard on tv that lots of SuperSonics officials (besides the top of course) think the announcement will be the Sonics will move to OKC this summer. Don't quote me on that per say, but that is why there was a bbq event or something today to "save our sonics."

Detlaf Shrempf was quoted by Channel 13 news as saying [paraphrased by memory "we think that there is a huge possibility that the team could be moving this summer - we want to have this fundraiser to show our support and to save our sonics."

I think the ONLY chance the Sonics might stay put is if

1) somebody announces they will build an arena up here * needs to be announced before Oct 31 OR
2) somebody buys the team at above $350M from Bennett (which he has sort of hinted that he might sell) OR
3) the Sonics were to get the #1 or #2 draft pick which might renew local interest and Bennett might be able to make some cash in what otherwise would be a lame duck 2007 year. during the season, perhaps something could be worked out before Mar 2008 "i wanna move" deadline.

That's it.

I think the BEST shot is 3), since the Sonics are the 5th worst team - they have a shot at the top pick. The oddsmakers have given Sonics the most probable pick of #6, but there is a very slim chance that the Sonics could get #1 or #2. We'd have to wait for Tuesday to see. No doubt, Bennett has already made his mind and is giving the draft lotto as the last and final straw otherwise, "hasta la vista"

If the Sonics dont get #1 or #2 in the draft, mark my words - there WILL be an announcement after the NBA finals that the Sonics will move to OKC this summer!!!

OKC pulled it off before with the Hornets - with only 6 weeks to sell those season tix. If Bennett were to announce by say, Jul 1 - that would give OKC 3 good months. Season tickets here is very lackluster at best, there's no hype for it at ALL.

I'll be glad, this waiting is ridiculous!

Ill keep you all posted!

Thanks for the update Hot Rod!

I think this is how it's going to go for quite some time... Lots of behind-the-scenes talk and speculation without a lot of public information.

One thing we do know: there won't be any public assistance offered Bennett before his self-imposed deadline of Oct. 31. The legislature won't be in session before then, so no way anything can get passed.

So while there may be all types of ideas that pop up, I can't imagine that Bennett would be too interested as he was asking for $500M before and it's hard to believe he'd get that type of money from the private section. That's well more than he paid for the team.

In fact, all this is likely to continue through next season unless they try and make a play to move them before that, which is looking less likely.

Daily Oklahoman 5-22-2007

NBA re-location
KC a contender for Sonics, owner says

Sprint Center could be team’s future home

From Staff Reports

Seattle SuperSonics owner Clay Bennett said Monday that Kansas City’s new Sprint Center could be the future home of his NBA franchise, the Kansas City Star reported.
Bennett, an Oklahoma City businessman, made the comment during a luncheon sponsored by the International Economic Development Council in Kansas City. Bennett is looking to relocate the Sonics after the Washington state legislature did not act on extending existing taxes that would help build a new $500 million arena.
“Right now, we have no option other than explore relocation,” Bennett said.
The Ford Center in Oklahoma City has been mentioned as a possible re-location site. The Hornets spent two years in Oklahoma City after Hurricane Katrina devastated New Orleans. The support Oklahoma City gave the team overwhelmed NBA officials
“One dynamic is to look at the experience the Hornets had, and the notion that it’s the only pro sports franchise in the state vs. the third in Kansas City,” said Bennett, who bought the Sonics for $350 million in 2006. “We’re going to work in very close contact with the league, and their strategy about where these franchises are and where they’re going to go and how we fit in.
“Clearly, they’re going to send us where they want us, and there will be building analysis, and market analysis. We’re still committed to Seattle until Oct. 31, and we’re going to do everything we can to get another public vote in August, and that’s if we receive authorization from the state. They’re out of session, and unless they come back for a special session, I’m not sure where we go.”
There had been speculation that Bennett might consider moving the Sonics, who have been in Seattle for 39 years, to Las Vegas.
But Bennett said: “That was misinterpreted. The point of mentioning Las Vegas was to suggest there are other available markets for relocation.”


Looks like Clay is working the deals, may be trying to improve his dealings with OKC.

So now it's not Las Vegas, but KC that he's leveraging against us.

I dont think KC will "offer" Bennett what OKC can.

Sure, KC has a $200 something million arena but somehow they got to pay for that. OKC's arena is paid for, and if memory serves me correct - the city has the funds to update Ford Center already; all they need is a committment. KC would NEVER offer Bennett free rent and/or top concession at their arena (in fact, no body else can) but this is something OKC can.

Clay may be dragging his feat because of the NBA finals - which nobody seems to be interested in. Im sure the league told him, no movement until after the finals. But it would be nice if he could keep his mouth shut.

KCStar either failed to write all of the facts or ??? because their article paints a little different picture on Bennett's comments than does the Oklahoman. Particularly, they left out most of the Hornet's support statement the Oklahoman had which was before Clay's quote "at the experience the Hornets had, and the notion that it’s the only pro sports franchise in the state vs. the third in Kansas City." KC's TWIST on the facts lead one to believe that OKC had only marginal success with its first major league franchise vs. KC having 3. Yet when you read the Daily OK, you see the OKC slant on his statement, because of the success of the Hornets + "at the experience the Hornets had, and the notion its the first .. bla bla" it looks much better for OKC. I think it was very very convenient for KC to leave out the Hornet's success part of that - presupposing to drum up support in KC??? Interesting to see if that works or not, I doubt it!

Im certain OKC will be announced as the winner, my question is - relocate this summer or next?

The other thing that makes me very upset is,

Bennett sure is attending a lot of events around the nation. No problem there, but it seems as if the local press are always there and always are asking him if their X city is viable or more viable than his hometown OKC.

That to me is upsetting because Bennett can't just go and see what he can find, but he opens his mouth and the press twist and run with it. From the KC Star, it appears as tho KC is now the frontrunner for relocation. However, that is not what Bennett said, yet the paper only briefly hinted on Bennett's OKC roots and Hornet's success - which otherwise would lead one to believe OKC is the sure locale for relocation. I just wish Bennett would speak in complete sentences but I suppose he has to leave a hole or two for local speculation.

And, it's too bad the KC Star didn't also mention that Bennett would have to compete with two other established teams in KC vs NO team in OKC. KC ONLY has 1.8M residents with 2 teams (KC Chiefs, Royals) while the Puget Sound has 3.2M with 3 currently (Sonics, Seahawks, Mariners); Seattle doesn't support the Sonics, what makes KC think they can support 3 teams with 1.4M less people (and certainly much less corporate support potential than Seattle area). I think these facts should have been in KC's paper, along with their realization that OKC is up and coming and should have been praised for the support of the Hornets.

Another thing htat upsets me is that the press report Bennett's moves in city A and B and each one asks about their viability vs. OKC, YET there is NO PRESS about what he's doing in OKC.

What about OKC's viability? What about X dinner or event in OKC where the media is there asking about OKC?

Maybe this is because OKC is presupposed to be the relocation OR maybe because OKC has already been chosen behind the scenes (so there doesn't need to be any hype drummed up here unlike the KC, Vegas' of the world).

Nevertheless, I just hate reading some city every other day trying to trump themselves up over OKC when Bennett comes to their town. Face it, Bennett is from OKC and if the Sonics move - OKC is where their going.

OKC is the ONLY LARGE CITY with a ready arena that could offer Bennett an assured profit line. Im just not so sure why on one hand Bennett can't make any announcement about OKC but yet can go to EVERY other available market and mildly say their city is viable. ...

Next thing you know, he's going to attend a luncheon in Louisville KY or Birmingham AL, those cities will ask him and Bennett will conclude that they also are viable should they build arenas???????? Maybe he'll next visit Omaha NE and they can conclude their Qwest Center arena is also viable. ......... Whose next after that????

KC is OKC's only true competition right now, but I don't think KC is even interested yet alone could offer Bennett what his hometown in OKC can.

You can't really blame them. We would do the same thing.

Im not so sure about that jbrown.

Like I said, it wouldn't be an issue if Bennett were from KC or Vegas, the Sonics would have been long gone and KC or Vegas would have told Seattle - good rittens.

But noooo, Bennett is from OKC so he has to play-kate around and try to "please everyone in Seattle" so he dont look like a crook/carpetbagger - stealing their team. ....

It seems like, if there is an OKC tie or something - then all of sudden morality and decorum always become the determinant. Yet other cities, who cares - they want a team and got it - ala New Orleans (did anyone complain that Charlotte lost their team???? ditto that for Vancouver - a MUCH bigger market than Memphis). Those owners simply applied for and moved those teams, no play-kating or caring about what other people think.

Given this, I dont think the Daily OK would forget to mention KC's successes should the foot have been on the other side. I think in some ways, OK is a very image complex society (although it is changing slowly) - which is what I hope will continue to change!!!!

Bennett should have just bought the Sonics and said from the get-go, I want to move the teams to OKC, tough luck Seattle - see ya; he should have applied for relocation in March and opened Season Tix sales to OKC residents come Apr 19 (end of 2006 NBA season).

That's what other owners do, why does "someone from OKC" have to be so different!

Bennett has turned into Shinn. I thought it would be sweet to have local ownership, but local ownership sounds just like the 'masterful' media man Shinn.

What I mean is that you can't really blame these other cities for their wishful thinking. We've done it before.

I think everyone is blowing the Vegas and KC comments out of proportion. Bennett has to look like he is seriously considering other venues than OKC for due diligence sakes, the NBA, Seattle, and media. This is his way of doing it.

I agree with Hot Rod, Bennett should have just come out at the begining and said he was taking them to OKC.

I also understand they had a full season yet to go there, and you don't want to burn any bridges. But if he lets this drag out much past the play-offs it could get ugly...

Your right Brian. Eventually Clay is going to have to go to NBA committe and make his presentation for relocation. He has to be able to say he looked at multiple alternatives. I still contend that 5 OKC businessmen didn't form a corporation with a mission statement to bring a team to OKC to then buy a team and move it somewhere else.

I agree with Brian and Kerry, everyone is blowing this whole thing way out of proportion and being a typical Oklahoman. It's this type of journalism overhype that is the Daily Disappointment (Oklahoman). I'm confident Bennett and Stern knew what is/has been taking place far before we could even speculate or hear anything about it. Stern is a master orchestrator, don't judge the book that is OKC on it's NBA quest until the final chapter. When all is said and done, it may make OKC look even better than OKCTalker's could have predicted.

This is just like an epic thriller movie, let's be patient and let it all play out. In the end I am confident that Okc will get the girl and Bennett will save the day.

Don't forget that Bennett was not the high bidder to purchase the Sonics. It was a group from San Jose that was going to move the Soncis immediately upon the purchase. Stern said the the previous owners could not sell to the San Jose buyer and that he would only allow Bennett to purchase the Sonics with the promise of at least one more year in Seattle.

Bennett must say and do all the right things for apperance just as was stated by Brian, Kerry, and Metro.

Just sit back with your large bucket of popcorn and your juju bees and enjoy the show, it will be a nail biter.

Looks like the Supersonics will have Oden or Durant playing for them next year. They ended up with the number 2 pick in the 2007 Draft. Everyone cross your fingers now, in hoping that they come to OKC this summer. :bow:

Does the fact that the Sonics with the 2nd pick in the NBA generate momentum to get the new arena now??

ESPN says yes, Dan Patrick and Mike Wilbon from ESPN, said that the excitement of a Kevin Durant (probable #2 draft pick) will get the city excited again and therefore a new arena..

oh my!!! bring on durant to okc! PLEASE this summer!

Like HOT ROD has said if they make an announcement of relocation (to OKC hopefully) it would most likely be after the NBA finals.... Let's just hope it's before the Draft, before Seattle gets to excited and builds an arena. I honestly don't see one player changing the minds of Seattle, but you never know.

I bet Seattle eventually comes through and builds the arena. I wouldn't be surprised at all.

I dont think so Patrick, unless one of the millionaires on the Seattle East Side steps up and makes it happen.

Trouble is, Bennett said he wants the $500M arena in Renton, and NOBODY (not the state, city, or millionaire's club) wants to step up for that.

The legislature will not go back into session. Im sure most of those senators/house reps are LONG GONE and NOTHING can be done without their vote/approval. And even then, you'd also need King County approval which they've said would require a public vote.

NO WAY someone would come up to bat for an arena for Bennett without local support, be it legislature, city, and/or even average citizen.

As far as Durant changing Seattle's fanbase, I dont see it happening. Most people here dont even know who he is, myself included. However, there are some Washingtonians in the draft - so if Seattle were to trade the #2 and be in line to get some of the local talent - well then, that might bode well for some fan support, which could get some cash rich folks to put together an offer for the team.

Put it this way, if the Sonics accept Kevin Durant of TX - it's a positive vote for OKC! And honestly, unless some Eastside Seattle suburb rich folks pool some funds together and buy Bennett out - the Sonics are still moving to Oklahoma City, with Durant!

CP3 to Durant wouldn't be a bad transition... Listening to KJR right now online and they all think this means they stay for sure....I just don't see where the $$ will come from?

2007-2008 OKC Sonics seems less likely now. You have to think season tickets in Seattle will increase, and how could Stern and the BOG let them move now that Seattle may be back on the nba bandwagon...

2007-2008 OKC Sonics seems less likely now. You have to think season tickets in Seattle will increase, and how could Stern and the BOG let them move now that Seattle may be back on the nba bandwagon...

Good for Clay and Co.

Hot Rod, I really hope you're right.

The flip side is that if they keep the #2 pick, then their payroll probably goes up.

In the end, it doesn't make their arena plans any more affordable. Local resistance to public financing for an arena seems to be based more on fiscal responsibility and priorities than on any real contempt or apathy for the franchise. So it would be weird to me if this changed the political dynamic. The only thing that may change is the interest from private capital that may see more immediate potential for return.

In any event, this should be more fodder for the claims that the lottery is fixed. :)

Don't think it will make much of a difference...Not potentially leaving Seattle due to lack of attendance so increased season ticket sales aren't a big deal

Sure the Wash politicians weren't watching the draft lottery

Sonics begin relocation talks.

NewsOK: Sonics begin relocation talks<br/><span class='hl2'>Team's chairman says OKC likely destination if Sonics leave Seattle, but negotiations will include Kansas City</span> (http://newsok.com/article/3060094)

Hot Rod - any more optimism for 07/08 okc sonics?

I think it is obvious that Bennet is wanting a new stadium should the team choose OKC

Here's the full article -- sounds like he's laying the groundwork for public subsidies from OKC.


*********************************
Wed May 30, 2007
Sonics begin relocation talks

By Berry Tramel
Staff Writer

When Clay Bennett and his partners first bought the Seattle SuperSonics, he would drive around the Puget Sound area marveling.


"I couldn't get my hands around what good fortune, to have a team in that marketplace with a new facility,” said Bennett, the Oklahoma City businessman whose group purchased the NBA franchise last summer. "I really thought we would get a deal done. An extraordinary opportunity.

"But lately, I don't have those same feelings.”

Bennett said Tuesday that despite the splendid lottery news of last week — the Sonics will pick second in the NBA draft, giving them either Greg Oden or Kevin Durant, both projected superstars — he is out of ideas for a new arena in Seattle and has begun preliminary discussions with Oklahoma City and Kansas City about possible relocation.

"My expectation and my belief is that if we leave Seattle, we're quite likely headed to Oklahoma City,” Bennett said from his office on the 31st floor of Oklahoma Tower. "But that decision has to be made with appropriate due diligence. We have to do that work. Just can't proclaim we're moving here.”

Bennett said the Sonics got a "little bump” in ticket sales from the lottery news but no momentum on the arena front.

Bennett said ideally the Sonics would launch the career of either Durant or Oden in the franchise's long-term home but that it was unlikely for the franchise to seek relocation this summer.

"For now, without a building solution, it's our intent to play in Seattle and apply for relocation immediately after the (Oct. 31) deadline,” Bennett said. The Oklahoma City group agreed to give Seattle until Oct. 31 to produce an arena deal.

Even before the Sonics were sold, NBA commissioner David Stern said it was becoming apparent Seattle was not interested in keeping the franchise. Bennett said that now is becoming apparent to him, too.

Bennett cited a story in the Seattle Post-Intelligencer on Tuesday that declared the loss of the Sonics would have a "negligible economic impact” on Seattle and quoted deputy mayor Tim Ceis as saying, "In terms of our image as a city, I don't think (the Sonics' effect) matters — maybe it did 40 years ago when they first came here.”

Bennett also saw KWTV's SportsBlitz on Sunday night, when Seattle sportscaster Gaard Swanson told Oklahoma viewers "nobody cares about whether the Sonics stay in Seattle.”

Bennett said, "I really think that's a common, broad perspective. I'm probably as pessimistic as I've been. Not to say I've lost complete hope. We'll evaluate thoroughly any potential lead, but we're out of ideas.”

Bennett said he understands the opposition to public money for a new arena but has to do what's best for his franchise. The Washington legislature declined to allow King County to vote for a proposed arena that would need $350 million in tax money, mostly from tourism taxes already in place.

"It may be that this proposal doesn't fit the Seattle marketplace at this time,” Bennett said.

Hence the Sonics are looking elsewhere.

Bennett said he remains concerned about Oklahoma City's long-term viability as an NBA market but has concerns about Kansas City, too, which already has two major-league franchises.

In conjunction with the NBA, Bennett's group is beginning to study both markets and that no other city is being considered at this time.

Bennett said the lack of broadcasting revenue is the biggest drawback to Oklahoma City, and probably Kansas City, also.

Bennett cited an old banker's saying: "Bad loans are made in good times.”

In other words, another oil boom has Oklahoma City flush with prosperity.

"It won't stay like this forever,” Bennett said. "Will companies spend dollars in down times? We're testing all that.”

But Oklahoma City's two-year support of the Hornets, plus the cooperative relationship between Oklahoma City government and business leaders, still makes OKC attractive.

"I think we'll get there,” Bennett said of deciding Oklahoma City is the best relocation site. "But we'll do so with involvement from the league.”

In the same way that Bennett drove around Seattle, dreaming of the future, he also has driven through downtown Oklahoma City and entertained grand thoughts.

"I've thought about that for a long time,” Bennett said. "Years and years. Even as I've seen how well we've done, I see a lot more to come.

"Government and private business working together, working for the greater good. I believe in that concept as strongly as ever. It's what's setting Oklahoma City apart these days.”

It's a seller's market. New Orleans just came up with $18 million to build a practice facility for the Hornets, and we would have to do the same, as well as upgrade the Ford Center as a start. On the other hand, you get 82 nights of advertising on ESPN every year at a minimum, and you have a city with a professional team to entice new business. Quality of life improves considerably if you're a basketball fan.

I'm not really shocked by the above story. Bennett has wanted to move a team here forever and Seattle hasn't given a damn about the Sonics in awhile it seems.

In my mind, this is the start of a five-month dance toward the Sonics applying for relocation with the NBA after the Oct. 31 deadline Bennett agreed to. By Thanksgiving, I'd imagine it'd be pretty set in stone.

Start saving for those 2008-09 season seats.

This is all following the exact plan most of us predicted as soon as Bennett bought the team:

1. Act like you want to stay in Seattle but ask for way more than they'll give.
2. Play the "they rejected us, not the other way around" card.
3. Pretend to seriously consider other markets.
4. Use #3 to negotiate the best possible deal with OKC.
5. Get NBA approval to move to OKC due to all the above.

The only real question is in regards to timing. Will they try and relocate before the start of this season? Probably not but it's still a possibility as nobody wants a lame duck year in Seattle and once that's a certainty, everything is negotiable.

Hands of Clay: Bennett drops opportunity
By Jerry Brewer

Seattle Times staff columnist




Related

Jerry's Extra Points blog: Going beyond the columns
Sonics Reader Response | Time to get creative

Ten days ago, it sounded like a basketball was bouncing in Sonics purgatory.

It sounded like hope, just a squirt, after the NBA draft lottery equipped Seattle with a No. 2 overall selection that will bear a surefire franchise player. We were talking hoops more than politics again. What beautiful noise, it seemed.

And then we opened our eyes, or rather, reality yanked our eyelids. That sound wasn't a bouncing ball, unfortunately. It was Sonics owner Clay Bennett, fumbling a precious, fragile opportunity again and again and again.

Just when you thought the man had reached his clumsy peak, he turned into a human buzz kill. He keeps calling timeouts to stop his own momentum.

Happy talk: Can Kevin Durant, the Sonics' likely draft pick, revolutionize the forward position?

Lump of Clay: "No hue and cry, no letters to the editor, nothing by the media or talk on the call-in shows, or no new ideas on how to get it done," Bennett told The Kansas City Star last week while complaining about stagnant arena talks in Seattle and flirting with Kansas City as a possible relocation destination. "No private ideas on the table."

Happy talk: What if Portland takes Durant No. 1 and leaves the Sonics to pick Greg Oden, the once-in-a-generation center prospect?

Lump of Clay: This week, Bennett told The Oklahoman, his hometown newspaper, he's "probably as pessimistic as I've ever been" about the future of the Sonics in Seattle.

Happy talk: With Oden and Durant coming this way, the Northwest will soon own a sizable portion of NBA intrigue.

Lump of Clay: "We're quite likely headed to Oklahoma City."

This rich guy needs a pacifier. And if it's not trimmed in gold, he'll probably cry some more.

For certain, this is Bennett's endgame. This is his over-the-top kid's fit, so he can claim an apathetic basketball community forced him to move the Sonics and Storm. He's such a bad actor.

The pessimists win; Bennett didn't purchase this team with an open mind. The Sonics were doomed in Seattle as soon as Howard Schultz sold the team to this franchise raider last July.

He's been so sensitive to criticism of his intentions because his intentions are as impure as rapper 50 Cent's mouth. He bought the Sonics and Storm to be a hometown hero in Oklahoma City unless he got the sweetest deal ever from Seattle.

Bennett used to talk of making a "good-faith effort" to keep the franchises in this area. He used to go as far as saying he wanted to keep them here. But when it came time for action, he made an ill-conceived effort to spur arena talks. When he met the same resistance Schultz faced, he quit and acted as if he never knew the battle would be this tough.

Boss Man Bennett has been either fraudulent or foolish. He had to research the political climate before his ownership group spent $350 million on a headache. If he didn't, this was the worst impulse buy in sports history.

Bennett is talking his way out of town. He's been whining more than Kobe Bryant. His mood turned in mid-April, when state lawmakers shunned his proposal to build a $500 million basketball chateau in Renton.

Now he says he's out if a deal can't be reached by Oct. 31. He complains that lucking into the No. 2 pick only has generated "a little bump" in ticket sales. Never mind that the draft is still a month away. Never mind that we have yet to see Durant and Oden play against NBA competition.

Boss Man Bennett huffs whenever his inadequate feel for the NBA is exposed, then shuffles his feet and speaks in grand "build a championship organization" terms while the rest of the league takes action.

Bennett is blowing kisses at other cities, but when will he hire a coach and general manager? Memphis just hired hot coaching commodity Marc Iavaroni, who would've been a good fit here. Orlando, which only started its search last week, lured University of Florida coach Billy Donovan to the NBA. Indiana has hired a coach (Jim O'Brien), and GMs have been named in Charlotte (Rod Higgins) and all but named in Phoenix (Steve Kerr).

Meanwhile, the Sonics can't seem to decide whether hotshot 30-year-old Spurs executive Sam Presti is old enough for their GM job (he is). And they don't have Kiki Vandeweghe, who has a proven track record, in their mix.

What exactly are they mixing?

And as far as the coaching search is concerned, let's just say somewhere Bob Hill is chuckling.

While Bennett reaches for a handkerchief, the team he purchased continues to sputter. Ten days ago, the Sonics had an opportunity for momentum. It's amazing how quickly Boss Man Bennett made it vanish.

Jerry Brewer: 206-464-2277 or jbrewer@seattletimes.com. For more on this column, read "Extra Points" at Sports | Extra Points | The Seattle Times (http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/brewer).


Copyright &#169; 2007 The Seattle Times Company

What's this about Bennett being a whiner?

The writer is coming off like a HUGE whiner.

The writer is coming off like a HUGE whiner.

exactly

:lame:

The writer is coming off like a HUGE whiner.


exactly

:lame:
I agree! I vote we all send pacifiers to the columnist! :bright_id

lots of "fans" up here are whining! I guess they expected Clay to be like the owner from Dallas - Mark Cuban? - and be so gung-ho and rally the troops here in Seattle.

But that is not the case, Seattle is a smart enough (and rich enough) market that rallying isnt necessary. Simply put - if you want the Sonics, build an arena where Clay wants it and get the funding in place before Oct 31. Plain and Simple.

The fact that this didn't happen means we really don't care up here. The leg would have at least voted to have the citizens vote if they thought we cared - but most do not, so why bother ruining your political career one way or another..... ??

But those columninsts and many Sonics fans up here are expecting Clay to be more vocal and less hands-off, which we know is Clay's style. He's a behind-scenes type of guy.

Oh well, this is good for OKC - you all should expect many more columns like this one!!! One thing's for sure, those Sonics 'stories/columns' sells papers.

Anyone see the Bennett interview w/ Blevins last night on the sports blitz?...Dean got him to say everything just short of guaranteeing the team is headed to OKC...Also said he would be shocked at this point if something did get done in the next 5 months

Also said it looks very doubtful the Sonics would be playing here next season...Pretty funny here it is June and he is still not completely ruling that out

The video is on the sports page of newsok

yeah, Clay ist leaving his options open. OKC is clearly the winner but Hush Hush.

I would really like to see him move in time for 2007. There is NO way for this to happen in Seattle given the way Clay wants it.

Renton Arena + his design + substantial public funding (when the WA leg dont meet again until NEXT JAN!!!!!!!).

And in order for public funding, the WA leg MUST approve King County's extending the taxes for Safeco Field to go toward the Renton Arena. This MUST get state approval. THEN, King County MUST approve, which they have said would require a public vote - they won't approve it themselves!!!

See what I mean, there's no way this will happen. Before we could even start talking about a public vote of King County, and King County doing anything - the WA leg would have had to approve it. And the time was up on April 22, to meet Clay's Oct 31 deadline.

Really, we're just sittin' and waitin' for 5 more months. Pretty stressful, and I honestly think Clay should just move on; recognizing that nothing could even get accomplished by Oct 31 anyways.

I saw the film. very nice, but it jumped around at spots for me (I wonder if they did that on purpose???). Anyways, it was nice to see/hear from him sound-off if you will about OKC's viability. Sure, he inserted the KC stuff but that is only so OKC will go BIG TIME for a change instead of JUST getting something half-assed.

Surely, there is no arena deal up here in Seattle - so I think/hope that by July he makes an announcement that the teams are moving to OKC/ and that there are 15,000 season tix sold within 2 months.

If that announcement is not made, surely there will be one in Nov 1 about the Sonics moving (which would mean a terrible and I mean terrible lame-duck year in Seattle))). Not at all good for the NBA or the city of Seattle, and not financially viable for Bennett.

Make the wisest choice!!! Move the teams for the 2007 season.

The people in Seattle sound as if this "Sonics Leaving Seattle" just happened overnight or because of Bennett puchasing the team.

I believe that the previous owner had been trying for three years to get something done. So if and when the Sonics do leave town the blame can not go soley toward Bennett. Nor should anyone be surprised that Bennett has given up on the people in WA to fund a new arena.

Seattle people like to blame someone for what happens here. The populous here can be likened in many ways to spoiled rich brats who expect everyone to know who they are, bow to their every needs, and surely put Seattle ahead of any other city in the nation. Why?

Well because we have Microsoft, Starbucks, Amazon, Real Networks, Washington Mutual, and the ops of Boeing; and because we have more millionaires including the richest people in the nation. so There, anyone who comes here must realize that Seattle is THE market with a few exceptions being NY, Chicago, and LA.

That arrogance is shared by most people up here and is perpetrated in most of the media. There is a sense that Seattle is untouchable because larger markets like NY and Chicago already have everything, so there's no competition for what Seattle has/wants. Lots have an arrogance that given the population size of the region, it is also desireable even if folks lose money here - due to the "importance" of having a top 15 market and ESPECIALLY since its Seattle.....

These people piss me off on this all of the time. I am so glad there have been Oklahoma Citians joining some of the Seattle Sonics forums. Most people only thought negatively of OKC as not being in the same league or able to support what Seattle could. I have seen however, that this is changed, and that now folks do see that OKC is 1.3M and could support the NBA successfully, maybe not long term with a losing team - but certainly there is NO argument about OKC's viability anymore. And that was due in large part to OKC folks coming in and educating people here about OKC.

What people are now saying rather arrogantly is that the NBA would not want to give up such a large media market for a small one. While there might be some truth in this - one can not soley depend on your media market alone, ticket sales and fan support matter also. And Seattle fans always fail to realize that OKC's market is not as large area wise as Seattle's either - but a similar area would realize the same numbers in the OKC region as well, at least putting OKC in the top 20.

For some reason, people up here dont seem to want to realize how close OKC is to other cities who WILL support the Sonics in the city. OKC is a lot closer to a lot more people than Seattle is, and surely that is OKC's market even if the TV market only includes the households of the OKC metro area.

I believe this is how Salt Lake is successful, which has a MUCH lower state population than that of Oklahoma - and SLC is one of the most successful in the NBA, I liken OKC to being similar as well, if not better.

Then there are others who are waiting for the private to step up. There are some movement going on but Bennett will surely not go for it - since no one will give him a sweetheart deal that would trump what he will get in OKC.

I think Seattle is the goliath that is going to get wipped by David in OKC - certainly has that attitude in many respects. And although there's much less ridicule of OKC and actually now there is recognition of the inevitable, as OKCLee said, its only been recent.

Personally, Im glad of all of this, not only because I want OKC to have a team but also I am tired of places like Seattle thinking they are better than everywhere else. Even tho I live here, I can think of very many places much better - especially two hours to the north (and most here would not argue against that either). I think Seattle is a nice place but there's no need to 'act better than thou' because you could surely lose everything just as quick as Microsoft built it!!! Seattle's arrogance to the rest of the nation save NY and Chi is ridiculous and I think this butt kicking by OKC will serve Seattle a great dose of humility!!

That is absolutely necessary!!!!!

Well because we have Microsoft, Starbucks, Amazon, Real Networks, Washington Mutual, and the ops of Boeing;

Yeah, but if Seattle was willing to part with those properties, I'd be willing to forget all about the Sonics. ;)

The latest in the Seattle Supersonics Saga:

NewsOK: Stern wants Sonics to remain in Seattle (http://newsok.com/article/3064158)

By The Associated Press

If David Stern has his way inside his own league, the SuperSonics will somehow remain in Seattle.

The NBA commissioner, an associate of Sonics owner Clay Bennett for over a decade since Bennett was the San Antonio Spurs' representative on the league's board of governors, said he thinks Bennett will find a way to get a new arena built in the Seattle area to keep the Sonics in their home for the last 40 years.

If Bennett doesn't find that way by Oct. 31, he has promised to begin the process of relocating the team, most likely to his hometown of Oklahoma City or to Kansas City, which is looking for an anchor tenant for its new arena.

"I think it's just going to work itself out and I hope it does," Stern said Thursday at NBA finals in San Antonio. " It's been a good city for the NBA and we'd love to stay there."

Stern acknowledged that Bennett "has more than exhausted the traditional means" to getting a new arena built in the Seattle area. Before it adjourned in April, the state Legislature rejected a plan to use King County tax revenues to cover $278 million of a proposed $500 million arena in the suburb of Renton.

Short of Bennett asking Gov. Chris Gregoire to call back lawmakers for a special session to reconsider the issue which the governor's office confirms Bennett has not been done there is no way the Sonics can get public money approved for a building before Bennett's deadline.

"But sometimes in situations like that, something that you couldn't have contemplated comes to the forefront and maybe there's some possibility," Stern said.

With public financing unavailable, Bennett currently has one private, Seattle-area investor interested in helping him build a new arena.

The Muckleshoot Indian tribe owns land that includes and surrounds the Emerald Downs race track in Auburn, Wash., and its tribal council is currently exploring how that land might be used for an arena, tribal spokesman Rollin Fatland said. The site is 24 miles from downtown Seattle.

Representatives of the tribe, which runs one of the state's biggest casinos, met with Bennett in February in what Bennett called "purely an introductory meeting."

"I have not spoken with them since," he said. "I am willing and ready to respond to anything they want to talk about."

For now, Muckleshoot leaders are talking among themselves about whether to proceed. The tribal council was meeting Friday.

Stern said he was vaguely aware of the Muckleshoots' interest.

"I read about some possible Indian tribe involvement but all I know is what I read," the commissioner said.

When Bennett, who last summer bought the Sonics with seven co-investors who are also from Oklahoma for $350 million, was asked Wednesday if he would accept Seattle-area investors to become partners in the team to help keep them in the area, he said: "I just don't want to speculate on any deal. We have not been presented with anything. But we are receptive to listening to any proposal."

As for Seattle itself, deputy mayor Tim Ceis said Thursday the city will continue to enforce the lease the Sonics have to play in KeyArena through 2010, though he acknowledged both sides could agree to amend their agreement to allow a buyout.

Such an agreement would presumably cover the money the city would lose should the Sonics leave before 2010. Ceis said the Sonics have not yet approached the city about renegotiating the lease.

Stern applauded Bennett for working through frustrations in Seattle.

"It doesn't have the arena of the future and the city itself, Seattle, has turned a little bit hostile to the team," Stern said. "And the leadership of the city and the owners and the Legislature has refused even to bring the issue to a vote. So I could understand Clay Bennett's frustration.

"But I also appreciate his efforts to sort of state it honestly ... to be there and to take any call, pursue any suggestion or do whatever anyone thinks is a good idea. He's demonstrated to me that he's got staying power, malleability and good humor."

It would be super uncool if he said anything different. But, if you're looking for some spin, you can consider that he might just feel that it's "safe" to say that now. He wasn't very bullish on Seattle a short while ago. I think the NBA, including Bennett, know that it's in their interest for the Sonics to stay there, IF they get a new building.

It would be super uncool if he said anything different. But, if you're looking for some spin, you can consider that he might just feel that it's "safe" to say that now. He wasn't very bullish on Seattle a short while ago. I think the NBA, including Bennett, know that it's in their interest for the Sonics to stay there, IF they get a new building.

Oh, I'm absolutely positive that this is something that Stern has to say publicly. Especially if he's certain that the Sonics aren't staying in Seattle.

Everyone involved has to mind their Ps and Qs and has to pick the right moment to say certain things.

At the very least, the Sonics will stay in Seattle one more year so the league has to try and put the best possible face on things.

Stern doesn't really have any ideas, he's just generally hoping something will pop up to save thngs for Seattle.

Well, there's always the Muckleshoot bailout.

I suppose the Muckleshoot option is viable, but I still think it is fraught with problems. First of all, Las Vegas is tacky and Indian casinos are tackier. Does the NBA really want an arena near an Indian casino? All those shots of the surrounding arena during a broadcast will show views of beautiful downtown Auburn and it's adjacent casino? Do they also want a casino 35 miles south of downtown when the wealthiest people in Seattle lie north of downtown? And who's going to pay for the arena? The Muckleshoots are thinking if they pay for a part of the arena they can be part owners. Do you see this ownership group owning a team with the Muckleshoots? Can the Muckleshoots afford 300+ for an arena, and then can the Bennett ownership group afford to split their profits? It all seems rather farfetched to me.

But I do think that if you gave David Stern truth serum he would prefer to keep the team in Seattle. Which only makes sense, since they have a long history there. So David, move the Hornets back or give us an expansion team and I'll be fine with the Sonics staying in Seattle.

Considering the league's aversion to Vegas due to the gambling issue, I think the same would hold true for a tribal gaming area.

I think you all are right, this [Stern] is the "required lip service".

Obviously, the Sonics are "supposed" to be here (Seattle) one more year at least - so the commish does not want to further alienate the situation when something "could" be worked out here.

Chances of that are slim to none because the Muckelshoot's proposal will not satisfy what I call Bennett's "4 points": 1) majority public funding in place by Oct 31, 2) Public/Private arena 3) Arena located in Renton (not Auburn), 4) Bennett and the Sonics in control of the arena (with all or most profit going to them).

There is no way the Muckelshoots would "agree" to those points even if they wanted to from a CIVIC point of view. They don't own any land in Renton. And while Auburn might be condusive toward building a fanbase using the major city of Tacoma (which is only 10 miles from Auburn) as the primary city - the bulk of the wealth in this area resides 23 miles to the N.E. of Auburn in the so-called Seattle Eastside Suburbs of King County. This is the bread and butter of where the wealth is here and is also where the majority of fans come from besides Seattle itself.

So would these people be willing to make a commute 41 game nights a year on a freeway infrastructure that already can not handle its loads? Did I mention there is only ONE 4 lane (plus 2 carpool lanes) freeway that goes from Renton to Auburn (it is one of if not the WORST freeway for traffic here - Already). And there are no plans in place to expand it. There is somewhat better access from Tacoma (two freeways) - but Tacoma / S. King County would not be able to fill the arena and certainly would not be able to buy those premium luxury suites. That would have to come from the Eastsiders.

I know the Seattle Area is probably foreign to many of you, so I thought I'd do a little writeup so you all are familiar with things around here. You can draw your own conclusions as to the viability of an arena on the Muckelshoot's location if you consider some of the following:

Layout of the Area

S. King County (Kent, Auburn[Muckelshoot], Renton, Federal Way) is very similar to that of Midwest City, Tacoma is similar to a big Norman just much further away from Seattle than Norman is to OKC (therefore, its debatable whether Tacoma is a suburb of Seattle, we here call both our principal cities but Seattle is the obvious leader for Greater Puget Sound).

Tacoma itself lies in Pierce County and has its own Principal Metro Area of 1M people. This is the primary area the Muckelshoot proposal would draw from - as its considerably further to reach the areas below (which coincidentally is where the $$$ is).

East and North King County (Bellevue, Redmond, Kirkland, Lake Forest Park, Bothell, Woodinville, Issaquah, Mercer Island, Edmonds) is like a very big Edmond and Nichols Hills, where some of the richest people in America live. The median income level here is ridiculous, and is really why people think of Seattle as being successful - its over there really.

The city of Seattle itself is like a concentrated coastal OKC in many ways - good and bad places, yet big city. Both cities have similar populations 535,000 vs. 579,000. Seattle's downtown is at least 6 times larger, currently. King County's population is approaching 1.8M people vs. 700,000 for Oklahoma County - but King County is 3 times as large area wise as OK county. Seattle Principal MSA is usually 2.2M vs. OKC's 1.2M. The Seattle/Tacoma/Bremerton CSA is 3.2M vs. OKC CSA of 1.3M. Greater Puget Sound is 3.6M vs. Central Oklahoma's 1.6M. WA state is 6M vs. Oklahoma's 3.6M.

Infrastructure and why people here are worried about it/not concerned with the Sonics

We are not blessed with ready freeways nor a simple road configuration here in the Puget Sound, due mostly to geography although there was some very poor planning involved as well. We have one major N-S route, I-5 freeway - runs through downtown Seattle due South to downtown Tacoma and due North to downtown Everett then on to Vancouver BC Canada. This is a large freeway (8 lanes plus 2 carpool lanes in most places), it also has a 4 lane reversable express lanes in the center going North of downtown Seattle. The other N-S freeway we have is I-405, which connects near Renton WA in S. King County at I-5 then goes around the lake WA to reconnect to I-5 just S of Everett. I-405 runs through the Seattle Eastside, and has 4 lanes mostly with 2 carpool. They are expanding it to 6 lanes (some 8 lane areas) currently.

There are two E-W major freeways, both connecting to I-5 (one N of downtown one just S). The Northerly E-W is called State HW 520 (or just 520), the other is I-90 which goes on to Chicago. Both freeways give access to downtown Bellevue and the Eastside and both are floating bridges on Lake WA. I-90 is larger with 8 lanes plus a 2 lane reversable express lanes. I-90 also tunnels under the city proper of Seattle and Mercer Is - at the time it was one of the most expensive freeways in the nation.

At I-5 in Tacoma, there is I-705 that goes into downtown; Tacoma has a number of State Highways that connect it to Auburn as well as its other suburbs, this is something Seattle doesn't really have.

There are many transit agencies here but only Sound transit has rapid transit and right now, it ONLY exists in downtown Tacoma. They are constructing a 14 mile light rail line connecting downtown Seattle to Sea-Tac Airport, but this will not provide any access to Renton and definitely not Auburn. Sound Transit does have commuter rail but it mostly connects downtown Seattle and downtown Tacoma. There is a stop at Auburn, but commuter rail itself is sort of a novelty here - not really used therefore its scheduling is pretty sparse. This could provide access but then again - it would primarily funnel people from the two big downtowns bringing them to Auburn (and the trains would carry 300 folks each???). Its not quite a commuter rail network like Chicago's Metra (which is basically the same as and compliments its subway system, the EL).

There are pretty extensive bus, commuter bus, and park n rides all over the place to/from the major downtowns with local in city but like I said, the busses ride on the same freeway structure as the cars which is always congested due to the lack of options. And unlike in OKC, there are NO major thoroughfares other than ONE called Pacific HW/Alaska Way Viaduct/Aurura, route 99 connecting downtown Tacoma to the West side of downtown Seattle (I-5 being on the E of downtown SEA) then on up to Everett. 99 is ONLY a freeway at the downtown Seattle portion, known as the Alaska Way viaduct. This AK Way viaduct was heavily damaged during our last major earthquake and it's replacement is a considerable funding issue here (say $4B).

Accountability?

You all have probably heard/read most Seattle people are concerned with it and expanding the freeway infrastructure here mess rather than giving the Sonics an arena. During rush hour, it can take over 1.5 hours on a major commute route - downtown Everett to downtown Seattle; this is mostly due to our lack of breakdown lanes in case of accidents. Our "solution" during the 1990's to expanding the freeway was to take out the breakdown lanes and make the freeway lanes themselves "closer", to give us 8 lanes on I-5 plus 2 carpool for example. Oh, and for that - it cost us millions. I am so mad, because I could have REDRAWN the lanes, which is what they did, for considerably less tax money than what we were charged.

We don't really have the accountability in govt spending here like OK does, we also dont have state income tax - so that is probably why nobody *but me, cares about Overspending. I also am not aware that there is a competitive bid process here like is in OK. Here is an example, I mentioned they are now expanding I-405 on the Eastside, where they are making carpool ONLY exits at major park n ride transit areas. For one location, the contractors sat up and let the concrete develop a crack. Instead of replacing the concrete or suffering a penalty imposed by the state - NO, the contractor told the state it would take 6 months to fix AND another $300M. This crap happens all of the time here, yet nobody cares to investigate or have some accountability. Im sure if this were OK, the contractor would have been fined and would have been required to fix the "mistake" himself. I am furious because I am sure it was done on purpose so those workers can get rich. Like I said, this is why we have so many well of people here - our state's lack of accountability really drives up the cost of everything, not JUST the geography.

OK enough whining!! Regardless of the case, we still have to fix our infrastructure, #1. Not the Sonics. And given the location of Muckelshoot - its not a viable option and wont progress.

I hope that gives you all some prospective.

Thanks for all of the great information Hot Rod. I was flying from Seattle to Boise last year and heard a guy behind me tell someone he was so happy he just bought a house recently and it was only an hour commute to work. And it only cost 350k. My husband worked for a real estate developer in Boise who had people buy his houses in Boise and commuted from there to Seattle. The families lived in Boise and the husbands would spend the week working in Seattle and fly back to see the families on the weekends. Now for those of you who don't know Seattle is at least an 8 hour drive from Boise. Now that is crazy to me.

Yeah, it is pretty crazy here. That guy was happy because he found a house for only $350K. Here we have a HUGE price bubble in housing - artificially inflated housing prices.

In fact, my house was $450K in the middle of nowhere - I estimate the "true" price to be roughly $250K-$300K for 2800 sq ft in real today's dollars. But yeah, everything here is at a premium, not sure why? It has NOTHING to do with geography or overcrowding either (as there are very many cities way denser that we are). Just think what $250K would buy in OKC or Houston, not to mention $450K. ...

Real Estate is a great industry here (our biggest by the way) and lots of people are getting rich off of it. Im just not sure why the heavy inflation (and it isn't going down either!!!).

As for the commute, that is why SEA-TAC Airport is one of the top airports in NA as well, lots of people do the weekly commute from E. WA/MT/ID!!! Otherwise, SEA's numbers shouldn't be too much higher than PDX (Portland's).