Washington's legislative session ends on April 22 but there are prior deadlines for filing new measures -- not sure what they are but by the tone of that article it must be fast approaching.


I think the best case scenario for OKC is:

1. WA legislature turns down proposal for at least $300 MM in public funds
2. Bennett's Oct. 31 dealine passes without any sort of deal (almost a given if #1 occurs)
3. Sonics play one more season in Seattle without announcing intentions for the next year
4. End of 07-08 season passes and it's announced team will move to OKC for 08-09.

well said Malibu, I think you nailed what will probably happen.

Which means only one season without the NBA, during which we can quietly ;) build a practice facility and improve the Ford Center.

...and for those that are die hard hornet fans, the year off will build up excitement once again for NBA basketball and transition in to being sonics fans!

Sat February 3, 2007

Bennett plans to submit proposal next week
Sonics arena plan: Owner has set and missed three deadlines so far

By Gregg Bell
AP Sports Writer

SEATTLE — If the Seattle SuperSonics put as much work into winning games as they say they have into developing a new arena, they might be headed to the NBA Finals instead of a last-place finish.

Then again, maybe they wouldn't even get off a shot.

Sonics owner Clay Bennett has set and missed three deadlines for offering a plan to state Legislature for a new $500 million arena in the Seattle suburbs that would be built partly with taxpayer money.

The end of 2006. The Jan. 8 start of the Legislature's 2007 session. The end of January.

Now, the Oklahoma businessman is telling key lawmakers to expect a proposal by next week.

"The longer they delay getting us the plan the harder it is for us to even consider their proposal,” House Majority Leader Lynn Kessler, D-Hoquiam, warned.

Bennett and his Oklahoma City-based ownership group insist they're trying to get the plan right instead of merely on time.

"We have made dramatic progress,” Bennett said. "We are beginning to get some traction.”

But the Sonics may be running out of pavement. The Legislature's session ends April 22.

Then there's the popular notion that Bennett's true hope is not a new arena but a new city and a renamed team: The Oklahoma City SuperSonics.

If Bennett doesn't get an agreement for a new arena in the Seattle area by Oct. 31, his $350 million purchase agreement allows him to move the team and the WNBA's Storm to Oklahoma.

The Sonics are still far from getting state approval to use of King County's restaurant and rental-car taxes. Bennett wants those taxes to underwrite the construction bonds on a new 18,500-seat arena.

The Sonics haven't decided whether to build the arena in Renton or Bellevue. The team hasn't bought land or solved parking and access problems in either spot.

Although Bennett's group bought the team for $350 million last July, he couldn't begin his arena push in earnest until after the NBA approved the sale in October.

Then came a web of issues surrounding prospective arena sites that Bennett now acknowledges was more tangled than he anticipated.

As Starbucks chairman and former Sonics owner Howard Schultz laughs somewhere into his latte, Bennett is trying to determine how much money the Sonics can afford to put toward a new arena.

Trent House, director of government affairs for the Washington Restaurant Association that is behind the tax Bennett wants to tap into, said Bennett has told him he would contribute at least $60 million.

But Bennett doesn't know exactly how much the Sonics, who are currently losing money in KeyArena, will make from a new building. So he's trying to develop a proposal in the abstract, to present to a Legislature that wants a tangible, concrete plan. Yesterday.

"The real detail we are doing right now is determining how much debt the team would take on,” Bennett said.

Doug Dawg is keeping his paws crossed!

The team can’t take any more debt and the city can’t afford to pay for the arena.

If Clay can't get anything worked out by April when the legislature is through, won't it be obvious to the Seattle fans that the team will be moving eventually, and make for a TERRIBLE lameduck year? I'm just trying to think if there is any way we could have nba next year...

Even though it would be great to have the NBA back in OKC next season, i think one season off would help us rebuild the same excitement we had the first season the hornets were here for another team. IMO I would personally rather see the Portland TrailBlazers here.... but beggers can't be choosers....that being said, i'll be extremely happy and support any NBA team that makes OKC home.

Well Watson, having the TrailBlazers would be good for OKC because they are a city that is often compared to OKC as far as size, and competes with OKC as far as conventions, etc. "Stealing" there team would be a loss for Portland and a win for OKC. Don't think that is being realistic considering they aren't likely to move and the Sonics are.

House speaker against Sonics arena deal
Chopp says education a much higher priority
By David Ammons AP Political Writer


OLYMPIA, Wash. — Only a day after the Seattle SuperSonics proposed a gleaming new $500 million arena for the south Seattle suburb of Renton, the powerful speaker of the state House all but pronounced the plan dead on arrival at the Legislature.

“I’m sorry, but the education of our kids is simply a much higher priority,” Rep. Frank Chopp, D-Seattle, told reporters Wednesday.

Sonics owner Clay Bennett, an Oklahoma City businessman, made a personal pitch for the new proposal on Tuesday before a Senate committee.

On Wednesday, Chopp offered his strongest criticism yet. He said he wasn’t declaring the plan dead, but took great pains to denounce it as a grab by wealthy businessmen for a playground for the rich.

The speaker has broad power to determine the House’s agenda, and his comments indicate that the Sonics’ plan likely would hit a brick wall in the House if it ever emerged from the Senate. When he has been this adamant, such as in opposition to a waterfront tunnel for Seattle, Chopp has always prevailed.

Lawmakers have a constitutional duty to support public education and other social needs, such as housing, also are of greater urgency than a sports arena, he said.

Chopp ticked off other reasons to oppose the plan:

• The regional economy is already booming without the new facility.



• The plan was tardy in arriving and only two weeks remain before a key committee deadline.



• The Sonics already have a place to play, KeyArena in Seattle.



• In his view, the club spends wildly for player salaries. “They ought to get their own financial house in order when their payroll is over $50 million for, what is it, 10 players? I think that’s a little ridiculous. They need to get their own financial house in order and if they did, they wouldn’t have to ask for public help.”

He said he can’t stomach diverting money from school kids “for something where the courtside seats cost a thousand bucks? Give me a break!”



• The Sonics have rejected a public vote on a plan, unlike the NFL Seattle Seahawks.



• The threat of the Sonics leaving so they can make more money elsewhere? “That’s not my concern.”

Asked about the speaker’s comments, Bennett spokesman Jim Kneeland declined to rate the Sonics’ chances now.

“We don’t know. We’ll keep pushing ahead,” he said in an interview. “The speaker has one vote. We hope he will keep an open mind.”

The Sonics’ plan wouldn’t add new taxes and wouldn’t directly affect schools, Kneeland said. The multipurpose arena would be a “tax-generating economic engine” for the region, not a drain, he said.

Reps. Eric Pettigrew, DSeattle, and Fred Jarrett, RMercer Island, will sponsor the Sonics’ plan in the House, he said.

I just listened to a webcast interview with Bennett concerning the proposed arena.

He said it is to be "existing" funds which would be redirected, and would only cost the people of King County if they stayed in a hotel/motel, ate at a restaurant, or rented a car. He gave an example. A $100 meal would contribute .50 to the fund.

In the interview, he also used the phrase "while we have the team." Reading between the lines, I say he is hinting that the team is definatly moving to Oklahoma City if the arena is not built... And possibly will anyway.

You can find this on the Sonics website.

only two weeks remain before a key committee deadline

It sounds like this will be sorted out pretty quickly.

It also sounds like there is no chance of this going through, which would likely mean the Sonics will be through in Seattle in the very near future.

Doesn't Bennett have to apply for relocation by like March 1 to have them here in 07/08? I wonder if that is reachable, in light of recent events.

Bennett has to be careful and patient here.

He had set an October 1 deadliine for a new area deal but if this doesn't pass the WA legislature in the current session (ending in late April) then that will pretty much cast the fate of the team.

I would expect him to continue to posture through next season, all the while working behind the scenes to get the team to OKC for the 08/09 season.

By then, he can say he did all he could to keep the team in Seattle and OKC will have plent of NBA goodwill to cash in.

I cannot fault the Washington state legislature for criticizing the proposal and being against using taxpayer money for it.

The cost of building professional sports stadiums has become supremely ridiculous. The new Dallas Cowboys stadium, although being pretty cool, weighs in at over $1 billion! And the taxpayers are footing much of the bill. Will residents of Arlington get any kind of a price break on Cowboys tickets for what they're having to pay in extra taxes? Probably not. One can make a strong case that the run-up in stadium costs are encouraged by the amount of public money going in to subsidize these stadiums. All that extra taxpayer money works as an enabling factor on loose accounting practices.

If the arenas had to be built with only private capital there would be a lot more controls put in on project organization and cost control. When taxpayer money is introduced the whole thing risks turning into a bottomless slush fund. Just look at what our health care industrial complex is doing to taxpayers by way of the world's largest government subsidy (and it's still described as a "free market" system).

Professional sports enterprises like the NFL, NBA and Major League Baseball make big sums of money. They're also private businesses. Most private businesses have to get by on only the money they make. Most of us either own or work for businesses that get no government funding. I wish I could make the taxpayers buy me a new industrial building and plush offices. Unfortunately pro sports organizations are able to hold a lot of cities hostage because residents believe their own city is not a legitimate "real" city unless it has one or more pro sports teams.

It may be a good thing for Oklahoma City to eventually become the new home for the Supersonics basketball team. 20 years from now when the "new" has worn off the Ford Center (or whatever it will be called then), how will local taxpayers react to demands that they fund a new stadium?

In the long run, certain nomadic sports franchises will kill any sense of relevance they have to the community in which they are located. Already there's some sense of irrelevance in that very few pro athletes are from the cities in which they play their sport. If a team moves around too much, why would any locals be loyal?

The Supersonics will have a golden opportunity in front of them if the team permanently moves to Oklahoma City. It would be the area's first major sports team and be able to capitalize on a very untapped market. Any pro sports team must strive to maintain a good relationship with the community. Obviously the relationship up in Seattle has soured.

This all is what I've been telling you all from the get-go, get ready for the Sonics and Storm. I said all along, there is NO WAY we'd approve this and NO WAY our legislature would either.

Furthermore, Boeing owns the property in Renton (I used to work on that land actually) - we divested the land. But Boeing does have a landowner who plans to build a major retail operation (like a town center), not an arena.

So, given this information - that the land in Seattle suburb Renton ISNT even Bennet's nor have there been any discussion with Boeing about Bennet taking the land over, I assume Bennet was going to first secure the dollars from the state THEN begin negotiations with Boeing and the land owner.

In all, a great attempt to appeal to the Seattle/Washington market while at the same time providing himself a GREAT "out". I wouldn't be surprised if the application to move the team to OKC in 2007 isn't being drafted (or wasn't already drafted) and ready to submit by March 1.

Perhaps there could be a clause inserted that says - we want to move the team to OKC should the washington legislature deny our funding request. This would take place BY April (when the session ist over) but for all intensive purposes - the decision as already been cast.

Another thing that could happen is Bennet could submit the application on March 1 asking for a variance which would give time to see what the legislature does.

Honestly, I dont know why Bennet made his deadline OCT 31, 2007 in the first place instead of a 6 month deadline coinciding with the Washington legislative session. After all, he bought the team in July 2006 (who cares if it closed on Oct 31 due to NBA approval, the deal was made in July so that should have been the deadline, if not the legislative session). ???

What else could be done to secure funding after April?? Surely, Renton can not afford it. Surely, King County will not dare fund it (and the county would have to get state approval anyways).

Seattle said no, unless. ... And the state is saying NO, we have other more important things to fund. ... If put to a vote, the residents here would say the same, which is why Bennet doesn't want to go there.

I dont know, Seattle might be a larger market than OKC but Seattle has its hands full with its other two teams - the Sonics are "has-been" around here. It wouldn't be much of a loss (other than historically) if the team left.

We are pretty confident we could get our hands on a new team when the Sonics leave. Portland is more excited about MLB so they will make that push. If they are successful, look for the trailblazers to make the trip up here to Seattle or possibly Vancouver BC if Seattle doesn't yet get its arena situation squared.

Of course, Paul Allen (Trailblazer owner) could fund the arena himself (like he did, the Portland Rose Quarter) and make even more $$ here.

Im sure there will be some movement, so no real loss to Seattle other than a little Pride!. The ONLY thing that could stop what has been set in motion - is for some miracle in the legislature (which would get overturned by the citizens through referendum anyways) OR if the Hornets stay in OKC (then Bennet might try to get the funding privately).

Otherwise, its much more profitable to move the team ASAP (when the Hornets leave) and that is what I invision will happen.

Nevertheless.

2006-2007 Go New Orleans/Oklahoma City Hornets (Sonics keep losing)

2007+ Go Oklahoma City Supersonics and Oklahoma City Storm

You all just don't know what this will do for OKC, having a major league even year round. And having Oklahoma City mentioned in the major leagues year round - which we have gotten a taste with the Hornets.

Thanks for that perspective, HOT ROD.

It's pretty clear that Bennett is a pretty shrewd guy (has a lot of experience in pro sports) and that he is playing this perfectly.

He has to give the appearance of trying to keep the team in Seattle, so he asks for way more than he knows anyone is likely to give, and then he's in a no-lose situation. If a mircale occurs and he gets his way in WA, he and his partners will have a very sweet deal. If he doesn't, he just brings to the team to OKC which was the stated goal of their partnership to begin with.

He's just playing the game now... But I wouldn't expect for him to get too impatient and suddenly try and bring the Sonics here next season. He'll take his time to work everything out behind the scenes, let them play in Seattle one more year then announce the mover after the end of that season.

That will give him plenty of time to get the NBA people on board as well. Even if they don't have to officially approve such a move, I'm sure there are still a bunch of politics to negotiate.


I think this is really going to work out fantastic for OKC. Doing one year without the NBA might actually make people more excited and easier for them to switch their allegiances to the Sonics.

This is going to be great... Re-build the team once you get it of course...

OKC Sonics-- Dang those Washington boys must be mad... They usually play basketball then football but...

HOT ROD, you've been pretty spot on with the local perspective from the streets. I found it interesting that voters had previously rejected funding a stadium (can't remember if it was the football or baseball stadium) and the legislature funded it anyway. Do you think this has had anything to do with mobilizing the grassroots efforts in the Seattle area against publicly funded sports venues? I would suspect that the legislature may have spent all of its political capital as it pertains to building sports venues. It seems clear that the people don't want it and I would be surprised if the legislature ignores that sentiment again. It seems private funding will be the only option and I can't see a good angle for anyone to do that.

I also half-way suspect that this whole thing has been in some ways orchestrated by Stern. Bennett seems to be working for the NBA as much as for his group. Sure, there's no de jure relationship their, but the only possible outcomes here is that the NBA gets another tenant in a public ally financed marquee venue or it gains a cash cow with friendly and experienced ownership by locating in a proven and non-competitive market. The interesting thing would be to see if Stern enlists Bennett's group again if the Seattle arena gets built.

I also completely understand Washington’s perspective on this deal and I hope they do find the funds for the social projects they are trying to protect by rejecting this stadium. I do think professional sports can tangentially help a city, but it also makes sense to prioritize. Given that they have already funded improvements for two teams in the last decade or so, at some point they have to say enough is enough and I think that’s what’s going on here. If OKC does land the Sonics, I hope it, too, will proceed prudently with regards to funding further projects. I think it’s much better to have one consistently supported franchise than 3, where at least one always seems to be struggling at any given point.

"I found it interesting that voters had previously rejected funding a stadium (can't remember if it was the football or baseball stadium) and the legislature funded it anyway."

It was Safeco Field for the Mariners. They threatened to move if the state did not apporve the funding to replace the Kingdome. They had already built the stadium for the Seahawks.

Looks like one more year in Seattle:

*********************

Sonics owner not planning to file for relocation
By John Rohde
The Oklahoman

The NBA's annual deadline for a team to apply for relocation is next Thursday, and new Seattle SuperSonics owner Clay Bennett said he has no intention of filing.

Bennett said he will relocate the Sonics, potentially to Oklahoma City, if a new arena project in the Seattle suburb of Renton is not approved within a self-imposed one-year deadline that began Oct. 31, 2006.

"We do not intend to apply for relocation. We intend to be successful in Washington," Bennett said Thursday. "I still think we've got a lot of life left in this deal."

Bennett said he chatted several times with NBA commissioner David Stern during last weekend's all-star activities in Las Vegas.

"He's been very supportive," Bennett said of Stern.

Asked about the Seattle situation, Stern told the Seattle Post-Intelligencer: "The new ownership has done so much, beyond what we could have hoped. They were very poorly treated at first. Everyone thought they were simply going to go in and wanted to move the team to Oklahoma City again. And they were disbelieved when they said they would like to keep it there.

"We've been around this track a long time and I hope it happens because Seattle has been a very good city for the NBA and the Clay Bennett group, I think ... will continue to be great owners for the Sonics. I don’t see a role for me at this point."

When an NBA team applies for relocation, the commissioner appoints a relocation committee, which studies the application and makes a recommendation to the league's Board of Governors. The board then votes at its annual meeting in late October, with a simple majority needed for approval.

"I found it interesting that voters had previously rejected funding a stadium (can't remember if it was the football or baseball stadium) and the legislature funded it anyway."

It was Safeco Field for the Mariners. They threatened to move if the state did not apporve the funding to replace the Kingdome. They had already built the stadium for the Seahawks.

Actually, Safeco was built first if I am not mistaken. But yes, we did not approve the tax to build it but the legislature found the dollars and did it anyways.

Here with the Sonics, there is a "sort of" reversal - in that the state does not want to fund the Sonics arena this time; compound that with we tax payers will not vote in favour of it anyways.

So pretty much here ist the deal:

Right now, its being "reviewed" by the state. It has received negative to marginal at best initial reaction. Some heavy hitting females (like our ways/means chair, who happens to be from the suburb where the arena would be built by the way and gov Christine Gregoire ) are seeing some positives.

Clay apparently is working up a plan to market the arena as a multi-purpose facility capable of drawing large acts to the area. Right now, Seattle gets sided in favour of Vancouver BC (mostly), SF, and Portland - we almost NEVER see a concert act unless it goes to the Gorge Ampitheatre (which is some 100 miles east). Because of this, some lawmakers are having a little bit of support for it but the price tag still has most in doubt it will make it through - especially the Speaker of the House - the most powerful person in our legislature (what he says, goes pretty much - and he said it was Dead On Arrival). But you still have due process - so .....

Clay will put together his marketing scheme as well as the drawings. He doesn't have much time tho because the state session concludes in mid/late April and I seriously doubt they will go into "special extended session" for the Sonics.

1) If the state were to vote in favour of the arena, King County (who would also need to have approval) has stated that they WILL NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES support a tax extension that does not get approval from King County voters!!! So, even if the state were to approve it (there is a 5% chance of this), it would not proceed because King Co collects and administers tax. By charter, the state can not pre-empt the county's authority. And there is a 1% chance there would be a vote in time (if the state first approved it by April) - and a less than 1% chance such a public vote would get the majority in favour.

So what does all of this mean? Apparently, Clay would love to enter the Seattle market and cash in for his investor group. He would not only be the beneficiary of such a facility that does not exist in the 3.4M resident Seattle/Tacoma Greater Puget Sound CSA but also he would look good to the NBA and NHL and other leagues as having been the "saviour" of pro sports in the 15th largest market. Surely then, anyone would let him get ANY franchise he wants for OKC. ..

Given this scenario - he knows he's in a win/win situation. He is prepared to lose $$ for a couple of years in the hopes that he either hits the cash cow from Puget Sound's King County or he can bring the teams back to OKC. With a new arena he stands to make more dollars in King County than OKC (esp if he were to also get an NHL team and the "acts" that we always miss currently). But with the NBA only or "God Forbid" Key Arena in its current shape - OKC has Seattle hands down as far as support/profitability (P/L ratio).

So, he's willing to go to bat for this. But I think he knows that it will all fail - and surely he will be allowed to move the team - since he did his "due diligence" here. Here are my predictions, which are in sequence (so if the first does not pass, it all fails):

- WA Legislature passing the tax extension by April 22 - 5%
(but if it does pass)
- King County will assess the tax - 0%
(unless there is a vote of the public in King Co)
- Public Vote in favour of the tax - 30% (mostly comprised of fans and those not in "the know"). 30% is not enough to pass.
(another angle)
- WA pass the extension (assuming this is so) but get funding from state sources instead of trying to extend the King County tax - 10%
(which would result in)
- Referendum or Initiative by voters overturning such move - 95%

In the 0.00009% chance that the Sonics make it through the above and get the arena approved and funded: I think there is a 90% chance the Hornets will relocate permanently back to OKC after a year in N.O. (no offense to N.O., this is strictly business thinking); as surely if Bennett had not bought the Sonics Shinn would have fought returning to N.O. or would have made a deal to either split the schedule or return for a 1 symbolic year then permanently relocate to OKC. (damn-it Clay....)

So, in short - given all of the apathy against the Sonics here and the fact that OKC is in the 'go' for either the Hornets or the Sonics; essentially both are OKC's teams right now. I would predict a 95% chance OKC will land the Sonics/Storm package but if not - I think surely the Hornets would return to their beloved OKC pretty quickly.

You almost have it right Hot Rod. I fully expect an emergency meeting of the NBA Board of Directors to happen in the off-season and approve the Sonics to move to OKC for next season.

While this might be little unusual, think about this. OKC will already have local ownership, proven corporate support, proven fans support, and a ready to go arena. This is a story OKC NBA fans have been following for two years now. An NBA coming to OKC won't have to build fan support, work on sponsors, or worry about selling season tickets. The Hornets have laid the ground work for Sonics.

The Hornets will play one year in NO and then they will be off to KC.

OK everyone, here's the latest news from Seattle!!! (very favourable for OKC, by the way).....

:welcome55 SONICS AND STORM TO OKC!!!


Rodeo, hockey favored for funding

House approves tax subsidies for arena, Kent events center
SEAN COCKERHAM
The News Tribune

Bull riding and junior hockey are trouncing the Seattle SuperSonics and NASCAR in the competition for state tax dollars.


The state House on Wednesday approved tax subsidies for a proposed rodeo arena in Lewis County and an events center in Kent that would host the Seattle Thunderbirds hockey team.

The projects now go to the state Senate, where they appear to have a lot of support.

Bills to provide much larger public financing packages for a Sonics arena and NASCAR racetrack, meanwhile, are languishing.

In fact, lawmakers combined the rodeo and Kent Events Center projects into a single bill with a title that is designed to ensure nobody tries to piggyback the Sonics arena on it.

It is now an "act related to financing regional centers with seating capacities of less than ten thousand." The proposed Sonics arena in Renton would seat 18,000. The NASCAR track near Bremerton would seat 80,000.

Backers of the equestrian center in Lewis County and the Kent arena went to great lengths to separate themselves from the bigger professional sports stadium proposals.

"We are not Sonics, we are not NASCAR, we are local people," said Larry Hewitt, a Centralia businessman who is leading the push for a 7,000-seat domed equestrian center in Lewis County.

Hewitt had originally talked about public financing for two-thirds of an arena expected to cost between $70 million and $80 million. But he said in an interview that the plan now is for mostly private financing.

Unnamed investors

Hewitt said investors - he declined to name them - are interested in the equestrian center project. He said they are keeping a close eye on the bill the House passed Wednesday.

"We hope it will galvanize some of this investment money," he said.

Legislative staff estimates the bill would provide $8 million in state tax dollars for the equestrian center over the 25 years of the bonds.

The money would come by providing the project with a percentage of the state sales tax collected in Lewis County. Local government officials would have to agree, and they're expected to do so.

Rep. Gary Alexander, who represents the area, has also requested $30 million in tax dollars for the arena. That would come from the state construction project.

"The odds of getting that are slim," said Alexander, R-Olympia.

Alexander said he hopes the bill passed Wednesday would be enough. The plan is to build the Southwest Regional Equestrian Center along Interstate 5 at Exit 63 in Winlock.

Backers said the facility would have events such as pro rodeo and bull riding, national equestrian shows, conventions and concerts. They hope to attract hotel and restaurant chains to set up at the site some 60 miles south of Tacoma.

Supporters argue it would help with the local economy damaged by last year's closure of the TransAlta coal mine near Centralia.

The proposed Kent Events Center would help that city's emphasis on rejuvenating its downtown core, said state Rep. Pat Sullivan.

"I want to emphasize this facility is not a facility that can host professional sports," the Covington Democrat said in a speech on the House floor.

The Seattle Thunderbirds, a team in the developmental Western Hockey League, would be the anchor tenant for the arena. The team now plays its home games in KeyArena, the same place the Sonics are trying to ditch.

The plan is for the 6,000-seat events center to also host concerts, graduations and the like. It's expected to cost more than $67 million. Municipal bonds would finance much of it. House Bill 2388

Proposes tax subsidies for a proposed rodeo arena in Lewis County and an events center in Kent that would host the Seattle Thunderbirds hockey team.


Tacoma News Tribune

You all may not be keenly aware of the political scene up here, but there has been a battle of sorts for state dollars between the BIG boys of professional sports vs. the local little boys of minor leagues.

It looks like the minor league little boys are winning, as the state is about to approve funding for their projects - and have even combined and renamed their bill so as not to confuse or provide any funding whatsoever for the SONICS.

And with the legislative session ending in 4 weeks (mid-Apr), I see nothing but excitement coming to the Oklahoma City Metropolitan Area. If the legislature does not approve funding - there is NO WAY a new arena will be built here in the Seattle area for the SONICS. The arena depends upon some $300M+ worth of public funding - and only the state would be able to appropriate those dollars.

King County (Seattle's county) has insisted that any funding for the new arena would require King County voter approval for the county to participate and allocate the funding. So, even IF the state were to allocate funding to the SONICS (less than 1% chance of this), it would still fail because King County would require a vote - something Bennett has vowed not to seek due to his knowledge that such a vote would FAIL MISERABLY. So, regardless of legislative approval - no arena for King County. And like I said, I am almost 100% sure the state will NOT approve the plan anyways.

The ONLY hope for Bennett is to 1) convince some local billionaire or consortium to privately fund the arena OR 2) move the arena to Tacoma/Pierce County or Everett/Snohomish County.

Bill Gates is the obvious answer - since he's the richest person in the world and probably could care less about $500M. BUT, Gates hates sports and he donates his support to educational and charatable sources. He will NOT support a new arena, esp one that isnt in Seattle.

Paul Allen also lives here and is a billionaire. But he already owns the Seattle Seahawks of the NFL and was principle in building the Qwest Field stadium in Seattle. He also owns the Portland Trailblazers of the NBA and is principle in building their Rose Quarter comples.

Howard Schultz is another billionaire, CEO and founder of Starbucks; but he was the OLD owner of the SONICS and sold the teams to Bennett. I doubt he'd be interested in wasting any more of his dough in the teams, since he made with a profit in selling.

The list gets shorter and shorter - as those above are the main players here with the dollars to invest without caring so much about making a return. A consortium could be developed but it would take a lot of time to develop synergy and I doubt you would get enough local high rollers to support since they also would not support public funding for the arena. Why would they shell out their personal money if they dont even want to extend the existing tax under the public plan.

So, the ONLY other option would be to approach the other Seattle/Tacoma CSA cities - Tacoma and Everett. This however would not be successful for the following reasons:

1) Tacoma is the obvious big player here from a municipal standpoint, but they already have the TacomaDome. It once played host to the SONICS but is not an NBA amenity arena. It could be renovated but I doubt it since it is happy with being a multipurpose facility. I doubt they would give up the flexible seating arrangements in favour of suites, permanent seats, and high end amenities. It could happen, and I think this is probably the BEST chance - but once again, who will pay for it?

2) Everett is the fourth largest player here (after Seattle, Tacoma, and Bellevue) and is home to the north county - Snohomish. Everett could not support a new arena because they JUST finished building the Everett Events Center in downtown. It is the anchor of their renaissance and they already have a slate of minor league teams supporting it. The arena would be way too small for the NBA and there is NO WAY the city would build another one for the SONICS. No chance in Everett.

So, in a nutshell, unless the SONICS can convince the WA legislature to fund their $320M+ funding request in the next 3 weeks AND convince King County voters to pass a subsequent vote required by KINGCO, OR convince Tacoma to open the TacomaDome for redevelopment and find some way to fund that (think $250M+) ....

Then I imagine that Bennett will go to NY and approach the NBA board offering to move the teams. He would submit the results of the WA State funding failure as well as the OKC Hornets success. With the Hornets reluctantly forced to return full-time to New Orleans next year (if that is truly "a go .."), Bennett will ask to move the teams to Oklahoma City and its Ford Center, for the 2007-2008 season.

Guys, you may not realize this - but Seattle knows this is the last year. Key Arena does not EVEN come close to selling out now - even with the Miami Heat in town, they sold only 15,000 seats (out of 17,000+). The Sonics are offering seats for $5.00 and other promotional gimmicks - to keep the support, but it isnt working.

I think, given this as well as OUR apathy against the Sonics and that overpriced and un-necessary arena in a suburb crap, Bennett will approach the NBA board around playoff time and under special session - he will ask to move the teams. Why should Bennett be "forced" to lose money on Key Arena next year, on the lack of Fan support in the Seattle Area, and the obvious apathy for the Sonics that exist up here (aside from die-hard fans), when OKC has proven to be a major league NBA market - Stern's Number 1 new market - that would "easily" sell out season tix if the marketing started by June (aka Hornets), not to mention Bennett is from OKC, and OKC's strong corporate support.

I think, given those circumstances Bennett will be allowed to buy-out the Key Arena lease then quickly update the Sonics uniforms and marketing strategy towards an OKC audience. Hopefully, the SONICS will throw-in some regional exhibition games in Tulsa, Wichita, Little Rock, ABQ, and KC - to drum up regional support/concatchment. I think then, they would be able to sell games to those markets via cable and make-up for OKC's rather "small" core market when compared to its peers. If we could dump in Tulsa, Wichita and KS, West TX, AR, and ABQ into concatchment - that would give the OKC SONICS some 6M person area (3M+ cable audience) - certainly would be the market that would support the team. At that point, you would have EVERY element in place to support a major league team for the long haul (local ownership strong on community, strong corporate support, strong fan base, mid-spec NBA arena (that could/should be upgraded), and cable sales market in excess of 2M in concatchment).

Women's basketball is no joke in OKC either, but I'd imagine the Storm would play its final season in Seattle and move to OKC in 2008. OU Basketball (women) is on top of the Big XII - can you imagine the support OKC would give to the STORM when local OU players graduate???

Courtney Paris, star center and hot Native American point guard Jenna Plumley (among other OU greats) playing for the Oklahoma City STORM anyone ....... We'd have the top attendance in the WNBA - and pro sports all year round in downtown OKC. ....

Good news, great news for Oklahoma City and its major league sports legacy.

Thanks again for your insight hotrod....Very detailed

Guess the best us in OK can hope for is no news out of Washington over the next month

'no "positive" news about the Seattle Sonics' from WA state, you mean....

neg press from Seattle please................

:)

thanks for the Seattle updates as always HOT ROD

no problem METRO (et al), Ill keep the neg press comin'. What are friends for.?

There's lots of it up here, the Sonics' losing is only helping OKC's cause. Even booster SONIC fans know the teams will move to OKC, many even think like us - that it will happen this year. Some are holding out and pitching dirt on OKC/jealous - but they are mostly trying to "blame" someone instead of looking at it from a realistic point-of-view.

I think Bennett has given Seattle WAY TOO MUCH respect and consideration with regard to the Sonics. How many other ownership groups will sit and lose money in a market just to "save face" or "save the face of the market it's leaving".??

Hopefully OKC can get one of the top draft pix for 2007. :)

no problem METRO (et al), Ill keep the neg press comin'. What are friends for.?

There's lots of it up here, the Sonics' losing is only helping OKC's cause. Even booster SONIC fans know the teams will move to OKC, many even think like us - that it will happen this year. Some are holding out and pitching dirt on OKC/jealous - but they are mostly trying to "blame" someone instead of looking at it from a realistic point-of-view.

I think Bennett has given Seattle WAY TOO MUCH respect and consideration with regard to the Sonics. How many other ownership groups will sit and lose money in a market just to "save face" or "save the face of the market it's leaving".??

Hopefully OKC can get one of the top draft pix for 2007. :)

Well it certainly wouldn't be a local player...Geez

Would be funny if Durant w/ the Horns gets picked by the Sonics

Hmmm...I thought the Sonics organization had already released a statement stating they would not be filing the paperwork necessary to declare their intent to move the franchise in time for the '07 season....??

-soonerdave

Hmmm...I thought the Sonics organization had already released a statement stating they would not be filing the paperwork necessary to declare their intent to move the franchise in time for the '07 season....??

-soonerdave

True. However, how many businesses or others have said something will not happen, then, it does?

True. However, how many businesses or others have said something will not happen, then, it does?

It seems to be pretty much set in stone at this point, considering the deadline has passed.



(USA TODAY (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/sonics/2007-02-23-future_x.htm)) SEATTLE — Even if a new arena proposal doesn't win the support of Washington state lawmakers, the Seattle SuperSonics will be in the Pacific Northwest for at least one more season.

The Sonics will not file paperwork with the NBA, by a March 1 deadline, to potentially relocate the franchise, team spokesman Tom Savage confirmed Thursday night.
But what does the USA Today know?

It seems to be pretty much set in stone at this point, considering the deadline has passed.

But what does the USA Today know?

Deadlines can be extended, and are. Fair or not fair, that is life and business. Hotrod has been around for a long time, in fact, he followed many of us here. So, personally, I think he is reliable... And I know I am not alone in that thought.:fighting3

It wasn't Hot Rod's reliability I was questioning.

ya PU.

The NBA deadline was March 1 and Bennett did say he wouldn't file, but I think that was to show strong support for HIS Arena proposal.

He doesn't want to ask the state of WA for some $320M+ then file for relocation before the end of WA's session (mid Apr). That wouldn't make political sense.

BUT, if Im right - I bet he will go to the board after the end of the WA session, once his arena plan is killed. It has all but been killed already, with the top leadership and most "common" legislators not supporting him - AND with the state approving the "lower" minor league arena plans (see above). In fact, they specifically wrote that the funding WILL NOT go insupport or be manipulated into supporting the SONICS.

I think all OKC has to do is wait 3 weeks then Bennett will be making plans and arrangements (behind the scenes at first, of course) to move the teams to OKC. Im almost positive he will meet with the NBA board off the record at first - to discuss the move to OKC.

Once the politics die down and the Hornets certify their move back to N.O. full-time, then I bet there will soon follow with a public announcement of his intent on moving the team to OKC. The board will probably grant an "emergency exception" due to OKC's success/market and Bennett's "good faith effort/due diligence" in the Seattle area.

I don't see any reason why the NBA would keep an owner in a losing proposition - and he stands to lose tens of millions of dollars staying here in Seattle. In fact, he might lose hundreds of millions if he stays here next year - Seattle just does not do good supporting losing/lame duck teams.

I'd say, spend the $90M or so on a Key Arena buyout, move the team over the summer and get that money back (and then some) in OKC. Im no insider or expert, this just seems to make business sense given the situation up here.

I can and will be you all's inside to how things are going here. I think Seattle will do just fine with 2 major league teams (MLB and NFL), because in order for the NBA or NHL to do well here - it needs to be in downtown Seattle; and we know for the time being that will not happen.

USA Today - The Sonics will not file paperwork with the NBA, by a March 1 deadline, to potentially relocate the franchise, team spokesman Tom Savage confirmed Thursday night.

Why is this statement so hard to understand? Tom Savage was right, they didn't file by March 1. That's because they were going to file after March 1. Maybe if Tom had said something like "The Sonics will not petition the NBA to relocate for the 2007/08 season" then you could say the Sonics weren't planning to move after the season.

Mark my words - the NBA will hold an emergency meeting to relocate the Sonics. Here is why I think this will happen. The Hornets will go back to NO for 2007/08 and it will be a disaster. The Sonics will also be a disaster in they stay in Seattle. The NBA will not want two disaster in the same season. And it will make things ugly in 2008/09 when both the Hornets and Sonics are vying for the same city. Trust me - Stern doesn't want to play that senario. It would be mush easier if Sonics move this off season and the Hornets move to KC after next season.

Absolutely...No way they make Bennett keep a lame duck team in Seattle if Washington doesn't get the deal done

Stupid deadline or not....They know everything is in place in OKC and season tix will disappear quickly with obtaining our own team

Would still give them what 6 or 7 months to get everything organized b4 the preseason...Plenty of time

just a quick question - someone mentioned it earlier. Would an OKC team be on a cable station that would be statewide? I know the Hornets are on cox, but only the metro gets that, right? I know my buddies down in Ardmore cant ever get hornets games unless they are on espn, and they cant get as interested in it. Would it be on Fox SW maybe? Just a thought.

I would hope that the permanent team that relocates to OKC, say the SONICS, would be smart and get as much market as possible. It is already known that OKC is one of the smallest of the NBA markets (Memphis is the only smaller, NO is just above us - but is also probably smaller now). We're roughly at 750K subscribers for the OKC metro/Central OK.

If we add in the state cable systems, then that gives OKC roughly a 2M market. Add in KS (1M), AR (1M), W. TX/NM (1M) then you get the roughly 5M market concatchment I was talking about. That is what the Sonics should go after.

It may not take place for the 2007-2008 season given it is very soon and the teams would JUST be moving to OKC - but hopefully at the very minimum, we can get Tulsa and Lawton cable systems to have some PPV games (hopefully Wichita also) for 2007/8 as well as have a few preseason exhibition games in Tulsa, Wichita, ABQ, KC, and Little Rock.

I think that will do well to establish the regional market as those cities are the closest who would consider traveling to OKC for a weekend and catch a game and/or buy a ppv or watch on cable esp if the team has players from the local area (which I assume will be the case).

I think after the first year, the Sonics could go after the larger concatchment market - but the first year probably would just be OKC Metro (and hopefully at minimum, Tulsa and Lawton PPV at least).

I dont know about you all but I am excited about this - and I totally agree with Kerry's assessment; that the NBA will hold a special session around the May-June timeframe to award the Sonics and Storm to OKC. They would not (and should not) force Bennett to have a lame duck year when he's already lost hundreds of millions, and since WA doesn't want the teams and OKC does and is ready ... pretty easy decision to me.

Plus, the NBA will have a losing market in N.O. for 2o07, like Kerry and others have said, I dont think Stern would want 2+ losing teams - even who cares if one is in the top 15 cable markets (Seattle/Tacoma/Puget Sound). ....

People ALREADY have stopped going to the games at Key Arena, imagine next year if in Seattle - the Washington Husky basketball would be a larger draw than the Oklahoma City (er, uhhh Seattle) Supersonics.

I dont think the NBA would stand for that - Bennett has done his due diligence and now it will be time to award him his prize - Oklahoma City!!

Both the Sonics and Storm will be embraced, but I think the Storm would move in 2008 since the wNBA season begins in May I think - way too early to move.

Nonetheless, great news for Oklahoma City, no matter the angle!!!

Thanks for all of the info Hotrod...... I concur with your sentiments about the "regional" marketing.... Having grown up in Wichita I can tell you they would very easily become a Sonics town just like they are a Royals and Chiefs town...... and it's about the same distance from Wichita to OKC as it is to KC...... And Tulsa and Little Rock are good targets too....

Thanks again for the info and the insight.....

:congrats:

Actually I think Wichita is closer to OKC isn't it?

Actually I think Wichita is closer to OKC isn't it?

Well, it's about a 3 hour drive from Wichita to KC and it's between 2 1/2 and 3 hour drive depending on where in OKC you are going..... probably 2 1/2 to downtown.....

According to google maps from Wichita to OKC it's 162 miles..... and to KC (MO) it's 199 miles.....

Thought everyone would like to see this, don't think it's going to help them...
This is a website trying to promote the new arena.

Just something else to show that they are making the effort to try and make the market there work.

King County Events Center (http://eventscenterfacts.com/)

Site does not compare to the Dallas Cowboys fly through on their new facility.

OKC Sonics & Storm

Thanks for that link.

Wow, $340 - $360 mil for that facility. That would be one of the most expensive arenas in the country.

How's this for a possible idea...

Build this new event center either south of the Ford center to the river, or on the west side of the new park area.

Then take half of the Cox Center Arena and make more convention space and half as a staged autoruim for smaller meetings.

That keep everything close to downtown and Bricktown area. Increases convention space., and provides a great regional event venue.

Just a thought....

Maybe MAPS IV.....

^^ Malibu, that's JUST the taxpayer portion.

the total cost of the arena would be $520-560M; THE most expensive arena in the nation.

But yes, Bennett wants US (Seattle area taxpayers) to shell out $340-360M for it. In a South Seattle suburb nobody really cares about.

What a genious he is!!!

GO Oklahoma City SONICS and STORM, 2007+!!

GO Oklahoma City SONICS and STORM, 20007+!!
I guess we're going to have to wait longer than even I thought... 18,000 years?

Thanks WichitaSooner and others,

I will send my marketing plan to the city leaders (hopefully they also read this forum), so that we are ready to go once the final card has been played.

I think if we plan NOW behind the scenes - we could move quickly to make the Sonics successful in Central Oklahoma. While OKC Metro has the capacity to do it by itself, you and I know it will be even MORE successful if we get support from the region's other large cities.

And since Wichita and Tulsa are the closest - they are also obvious market candidates. Little Rock might be "in bed" with Memphis, but I think it is worth it to market to them, along with ABQ and AMA/LUB. We may not be able to make cable deals but hopefully there could be some preseason and ppv.

Here is my "plan",

1) OKC leaders meet/call leaders from OK cities, Tulsa, Wichita and Topeka/Salina, Ft. Smith and Little Rock, Amarillo and Lubbuck, ABQ, KC, Joplin and even STL - all regional large cities not in the NBA or close to one (aside from LR): guage their support/interest in having a preseason game in exchance to access to their cable network's ppv (and/or regional/local sports channel).

2) based on the response, meet behind the scenes with Professional BBall club (aka Bennett) to discuss preliminary marketing plans as well as the city's expectations.

3) make sure to get Bennett "on board" with the regional-ness of the SONICS, that we need to brand the Oklahoma City teams region-wide - following the success of the Big XII as well as the Hornets (to a lesser degree).

4) Once Bennett announces the move and the board approves, the city officials should meet in person (like go visit) the regional cities to pitch their package. See who could have a preseason game and who will let us broadcast. Hopefully and Im sure, Tulsa and Wichita will jump on board, LR and ABQ might be a tougher sell. And dont take AMA/LUB for granted nor Lawton/Enid/Ardmore. KC and STL and MO might be THE toughest sell, but i think there should at least be a phone call, along with a call to Omaha/NE.

It would be great to have a preseason game in Tulsa, Wichita, KC, and Omaha. LR might have Memphis preseason game, but if not - LR also. ABQ might have Den or STL or PHX but hey .... AMA/LUB might be too small.

5) The city should also get with travel agencies in the respective cities to develop OKC packages, esp for the weekend to tie into a game and night out on-the-town.

6) MAKE SURE to get alliance with the D-League's Tulsa 66ers as the 'exclusive' farm club. Develop a tallent pool that would see players spend some time in Tulsa then move up/down based on the needs of the SONICS. This will solidify Tulsa as a market. Also go after local talent from OU, OSU, OCU, TU, and ORU (among the other OK/KS/MO/AR/TX area schools. That way, there will be at least transient regional support (ie, some player from some local area is playing and those residents come up to the city to see him play, then get hooked on the SONICS, and make future trips, then get sold on OKC as a destination and spread the word).

Following these suggestions (and more??) would ensure support for the teams AND make it profitable for everyone - OKC and the regional cities. Plus, I think it would not only market/advertise for OKC but also "lift up" the region in which OKC is the centre.

What do you all think? I will take comments and add them to what I suggest to the OKC leadership. While this may be presumptuous - I think given what ist happening up here (not happening in other words) one could assume the SONICS will call OKC home by 2009, most likely sooner - and we should prepare and "welcome our teams with OPEN ARMS of support".

^^ ha ha ha, oops. 2007!!!!!

Hopefully ONLY a few weeks for the announcement we're all waiting for. ;)

Well, it's about a 3 hour drive from Wichita to KC and it's between 2 1/2 and 3 hour drive depending on where in OKC you are going..... probably 2 1/2 to downtown.....

According to google maps from Wichita to OKC it's 162 miles..... and to KC (MO) it's 199 miles.....

So to answer my question, yes OKC is closer both time wise and mileage.

Do you think that the name should be the "Oklahoma City Sonics" or the "Oklahoma Sonics"?

I am thinking "Oklahoma Sonics" would mean the states NBA team, much like the Minnesota Timberwolves, Vikings and Twins.

This could be another marketing strategy.

Do you think that the name should be the "Oklahoma City Sonics" or the "Oklahoma Sonics"?

I am thinking "Oklahoma Sonics" would mean the states NBA team, much like the Minnesota Timberwolves, Vikings and Twins.

This could be another marketing strategy.

The long time veterans of this board and the ones we were on in the past, have all advocated Oklahoma City. Why? Oklahoma City needs name recog ition.

It's amazing how guillible we have become. I want a team as much as anyone but to believe Seattle will not fund a new stadium is setting yourselves up for a big disappointment. These minor setbacks early in this process are not indicative of failure, Bennett has gotten alot further than previous owners in a very short period of time and he will get this stadium funded. OKC I believe will get an NBA franchise, however, I'm not kidding myself no matter what one or two natives post to this board.

Don't believe everything you read on a web site. Follow the money. The people of Seattle won't even pay $5 per game to watch the Sonics. Don't expect Seattle companys to jump on the band wagon with the tax on hotels and rental cars. Many of the people who stay in Seattle hotels and rent cars are there on business. The "visitors" get reimbursed for spending that money which mean local companies like Boeing, Amazon, Microsoft have to pick up those costs.

Somehow people read the funding plan on the web site and they think the money just appears like magic. I especially like the part that claims the funding mechanism are already in place so the people should support it. Big deal, there is already an income tax mechanism in place - it doesn't make me want to pay more income tax.

This web site is just part of the Bennett plan. Atleast he can tell the NBA Directors in May that he did everything he could.

BTW - that areana would look cool in downtown OKC and would make a nice addition to MAPS4 in 7 years

Kerry, again I wish I could get excited about the prospects of a Seattle relocation, however, at this time, my gut tells me not to. Way too much money in the region to count the stadium deal out

It's amazing how guillible we have become. I want a team as much as anyone but to believe Seattle will not fund a new stadium is setting yourselves up for a big disappointment. These minor setbacks early in this process are not indicative of failure, Bennett has gotten alot further than previous owners in a very short period of time and he will get this stadium funded. OKC I believe will get an NBA franchise, however, I'm not kidding myself no matter what one or two natives post to this board.

It seems to me that the people who LIVE in Seattle should know what they are saying. Afterall, they have voted there, know the trends, and most of all, know the people.

Seven out of 10 Washington voters turn thumbs down to spending public money on pro sports facilities,

The Elway Poll, published Friday by independent pollster Stuart Elway, also showed support for simple-majority approval of school levies and backing for paid family medical leave.

The telephone poll was conducted among 405 registered voters Feb. 8-12, with a margin of error of plus or minus 5 percentage points.

Some highlights:


SPORTS ARENAS. Lawmakers are considering plans for partial public financing for sports venues for NASCAR, the Seattle Sonics, minor league baseball teams and a rodeo and equestrian center. Asked a general question about whether pro sports owners should pay for their own facilities without taxpayer subsidies, 71 percent agreed, while 23 percent called subsidies a good investment.

About 77 percent opposed use of public dollars for major sports facilities such as the Sonics' Renton proposal. Public financing for a NASCAR racetrack was opposed by 79 percent.

There you have it - the people of Seattle love their taxes, but only if it goes to the "poor".