HOT ROD, people in Seattle are calling us a cultural wasteland. Please talk to them.

Funny, since there's an exhibit from the Louvre coming next year to three places in the US: Oklahoma City, Seattle, and Indianapolis...

Yeah I've seen the comment "Oklahoma City is a pit" as well as the joke about how Texas doesn't fall off into the ocean because Oklahoma sucks. Also a comment to the effect that the team would do okay here because there's nothing else happening. All of these were on the Post-Intelligencer talkback forum.

Overall, I am tired of hearing everyone bash this city.

There is nothing wrong with this city. We have great people and plenty of things to do. I would take living in OKC any day over rainy suicidal Seattle.

We are just as deserving of a major league sports franchise as any other city. We have money, We have fans and our fans are loyal. You cannot walk the streets of this city without seeing an OU or OSU logo a thousand times within one day. Eventually Oklahoma will have every professional franchise here in our fine state.

I would love to take any person who doubts Oklahoma's ability to support sports to Norman or Stillwater on game day. (Especially when our beloved sooners or cowboys have just won against a big rival) You will see fans as far as they eye can see spending money and celebrating.

I am willing to bet a paycheck that at least two major league sports will call Oklahoma home with in the next 10-15 years. 25-30 years from now, we will probably have all major league sports playing in Oklahoma.

BTW, when we win our first professional sports championship, the Oklahoma City Police Department will not have to don their riot gear and head to the streets.

It is really funny. I use to bash Nashville, Louisville, and Little Rock because of the states being hick havens.

Those three cities are quite cosmopolitian and very nice to look at in a lot of parts.

If these blasters would visit Oklahoma City with the same open mind I did when first travelling to the cities I mentioned, then the bashing would come to a screetching halt... Fast.

Now Cincinatti, Cleveland, and Pittsburgh? Those are totally different views. Pittsburgh is named perfectly. It is a pit. And, yes. I have been to all of them.

Not bad. Only I hope they change the colors. Plus, they could give everyone on the shuttle a free Sonic Blast.

I don't mind the colors. Hey, some have said OKC is the Green Bay of professional basketball. Fitting, since the colors would be similar.

Also, I obviously hope Sonic would support any team we get here, which you know they will. But I don't think we want to carry the fast food tie-in too far. That's not much better, image-wise, than hillbilly stuff.

As far as bashing OKC, I don't see the need for these places to do it, but I can understand their perspective. OKC is changing and getting a lot better, but it is certainly not as cosmopolitan as a city like Seattle, nor does it have a third of what there is to do there. While I find the insults in bad taste, we also can't pretend the city doesn't have shortcomings in the entertainment or quality of life areas. The only way we can make it better is to recognize the areas in which we can improve. I think that's why most of us are so enthusiastic about contributing to this forum in the first place.


It would also be great if the WNBA Storm came to Tulsa what with the BOK Center and all.

That's not a bad idea, but if I was the owner and could feasibly pull it off, I would leave them in Seattle. That city supports it pretty well, relatively. The WNBA is struggling as whole, too. That being said, if it could fly, I think it would make a great connection between Tulsa and OKC.

If we do get the Sonics, I'm sure the new owners will want to maintain connection with history of the club, as their has been lots of value built up over the decades in recognition. They've always been pretty successful and well-regarded and if I owned them I wouldn't want to toss that out the window.

I would expect them to slightly update the logo and uniforms but maintain ties to the club's past, as that is very marketable.

Oh everyone, I tell everyone up here I meet about the good and positives of Oklahoma City. Most everyone I talk to up here already know it is a big city, but that's about it.

They usually think it is so much smaller than Seattle but are surprised to hear the city populations are actually the same. OKC's metro is basically the same population of King County (Seattle and its Eastside suburbs county), and that's what I tell them - then most people start to give OKC a bit more respect (because Greater Puget Sound (AKA Seattle/Tacoma CSA) is more than JUST Seattle, its also Tacoma (0.9M by itself), Seattle MSA (2.4M), and Olympia (.5M)).

............................

I think some of if not most of the OKC bashing you're possibly hearing (although I have not see ANY even in the Seattle forums and talk shows, as I was intentionally looking for bashing of OKC), probably has to do with the apathy of losing the team AS WELL AS Bennet promising Seattle that he wants to keep the team in Seattle.

Most people in Seattle are smart enough (highest college grads and graduate schoolers in the nation) to know that the Sonics are gone. Most are upset that this guy is coming in and making a promise only for marketing purposes. Most wish he'd instead say "we plan to move the team on such and such date, and we plan to tip our hat to Seattle and the tradition by retiring the name SONICS once we move."

I really hope Bennet does retire the name (and as some have said, the colours/uniforms). Let the era of Seattle Supersonics go with respect, and the new era of Oklahoma City major league sports start somewhat "fresh".

Also, I actually like the idea many have said here, with Tulsa being a venue for the WNBA STORM. In fact, I think OKC should share a few home dates with Tulsa, especially during the ONLY time of the year where the NBA and WNBA seasons interfere with each other (June during NBA playoffs).

By sharing the WNBA with Tulsa, that could only solidify our market as they WILL support our NBA team. It also could finally bring our state together - something they could have done moreso with us when they had the USFL Outlaws. Nonetheless, If we could share some WNBA home games with Tulsa, it could give them some major league status and taste, solidify our state's support of major league basketball, finally bring PRIDE to the whole state (not just OKC, and jealousy from Tulsa), And show that OKC doesnt mind to share some of our success spillover with Tulsa.

We could become the new (and much more successful) Phila and Pittsburg of the 21st Century [meaning two very successful metros in the same state, one significantly larger than the other, but even the smaller one has major league aspects in its own right].

It could finally unite our state a bit, but I dont think we should just HAND Tulsa the WNBA. We can share some dates but not hand it to them. I mean, Tulsa is in the NBA-Development league, so I'd say we should establish relationships that way - in addition to our major state schools (OU, OSU, OCU, TU, and UCO).

I grew up in Seattle, spent the first 20 years of my life there. I've been in OKC for about 2 years now, so maybe I can throw out a little perspective.

First, I've really enjoyed my stay here in OKC. The downtown has really impressed me and there are some great restaurants and bars tucked away in various corners of the city. Things like OKC Rocks and Bricktown really make it an interesting place to live. Lake Hefner is well done and the river shows lots of promise.

About Seattle...HOTROD can back me up on this...
There are few places in this country that can compare in natural beauty. There are two mountain ranges visible from downtown, plus you have the ocean, numerous lakes, and year round green, green, green. If you are at all interested in the outdoors, it is the place to be. The downtown is fantastic, and is turning into a true live and work downtown with dozens of tall tower condos going up every year.

The temperatures are super mild, and as for the rain...in the summer Seattle gets on average less rain than OKC. In the winter, it pours...but then that just means more snow to ski on in the mountains!!!

On the balance, although I have enjoyed my stay here in OKC, I will probably move back to Seattle when I get the oppurtunity. Of course, I am biased!

There are few places in this country that can compare in natural beauty. There are two mountain ranges visible from downtown, plus you have the ocean, numerous lakes, and year round green, green, green. If you are at all interested in the outdoors, it is the place to be. The downtown is fantastic, and is turning into a true live and work downtown with dozens of tall tower condos going up every year.

I visited Seattle a few years ago and found it refreshingly different. It is a great city with a unique identity. Catching a view of Mount Rainier was definitely the highlight. I also liked the concentration of downtown retail on Pine.

But I couldn't live there because it is sooo different. Even though I would like to see OKC change in a lot of respects, its culture and geography are ingrained in me.

Glad to see you like it here. Lake Hefner is definitely a place to forget where you're at. As the user groups (biking and climbing clubs, etc) get larger and/or more sophisticated, either they or the marketplace will improve the recreational climate. We have great rowing and mountain biking facilities because the users are passionate about sharing them with everyone.

Congrats from Tulsa OKC!!!

This is great for the state and OKC...It certainly looks like OKC will have a permanent team within 2-4 years. I would prefer the Hornets in OKC and Sonics in NO but as long as you get one ill be happy!

It would also be great if the WNBA Storm came to Tulsa what with the BOK Center and all. Tulsa certainly has the population to support the WNBA (Metro population around 1,000,000.


Again, CONGRATS!!!!!:kicking:

something nice about okc coming from a tulsan. now thats news worthy. thanks :)

Most are upset that this guy is coming in and making a promise only for marketing purposes.

I also think that the NBA has asked him to do this. While Stern definately seems to be a little upset with Seattle, he of course does not want any lame duck teams. He's not even a really big fan of relocation. So, while it does come off as pandering to Seattle, people need to keep in mind that these guys have to keep the NBA as a whole happy. None of the owners want to see someone tell a market that they're set on leaving before the year that they're actually going to leave. Too much revenue for all to lose...

yes PTWOBJB, Seattle is a very beautiful place. :gossip: I dont think its too much of a secret tho.

It does have a rather large "signature" downtown with many skyscrapers full of local businesses - it looks even more impressive/taller than it is due to the geography of the region.

It does have highrise condos going up, not necessarily the dozens per year (that would be Vancouver BC who puts up dozens of skyscrapers a year), but nonetheless Seattle has been in a downtown renaissance of sorts since about 2001 or so, which began with the retail sector on Pike/Pine Floater was impressed with, as well as the high rise condo renaissance in Belltown.

And yes, Seattle does have a laid back culture that's often hard for most Eastern (yes OKC is considered Eastern because you all mostly follow NY, Chi for most things) cities. Its even different from San Fran because its not quite that liberal.

That being said, it will be difficult if not impossible for the Sonics to stay here. Key Arena sucks, plain and simple. Honestly, its not much better (or bigger) than the State Fair Arena in OKC. Its in a similar "fair" environment but there is a nice business community that sprung up around it (called lower queen anne, for the fact that it is at the bottom of Seattle's tallest hill - Queen Anne).

The former owners (Howard Schultz) wanted out of the place, as with their lease agreement, they lost tons of money because of the lack of seats/amenities. Almost everyone has a new arena (including local communities Vancouver BC and Portland) which blow Key Arena out of the water. In fact, the only thing Key Arena has going for it is its history - being with the Seattle World's fair and the history associated with the Supersonics.

But all of that is long history. And it is a new day. The former owners (and even the ones before them) tried to get the city/state to upgrade or raze and rebuild but the only thing that happened was a "facelift" and lowering of the floor which resulted in a few thousand seats costing some $36 thousand dollars (annual).

You might say, Seattle/Tacoma certainly has the population in its region to support a 16K seat Key Arena. And certainly, there are lots of rich people here with disposable income that could go to the games (we have no income tax and lots of Microsoft and dot-com millionaires as you all know). So how could a group from OKC come in and buy the team out from under "successful Seattle"?

Well, its because no body really cares about the Sonics, they just care about being a big 3 city. Having the original big 3 major league sports means most to people here than anything associated with the current SONICs. Its about reputation, its about status. We were OK with the NHL not being here, the fan base is not quite as big and those real die hards from here and Portland go up to Vancouver anyways. How could we compete?

But lately, the Sonics have sucked. And support for the team is at an all-time low. Everyone knows about the mystique of the old Sonics and if you listen to the news reports - those who are crying about losing the team ONLY talk about the past (and the POP of the Puget Sound region somehow equals market/profitability).

Yet, over 3/4 of the residents here dont care about the Sonics or the NBA. If they were playing good, then perhaps that number would be lower and more would support the team. BUT, such isnt the case - we dont even have the big names (Shawn Kemp, Paton, et al) that we used to have that drew long time support.

So, now you see how an investment group from OKC can come into a Puget Sound market full of millionaires and billionaires - any of whom could buy the team and keep it here if they cared; but nobody does anymore save the long time historians and civic minded.

Also of note, there is an tax opposition group here who just turned in enough signatures to put the issue of NOT building a new Arena with taxes on the ballot in November. IT WILL PASS!!! meaning, no new arena for the Sonics in Seattle (using state funds).

So, the only hope for keeping the Sonics in Seattle is .. Bellevue (Seattle's Eastside mega suburb) rich people building the team a stadium. This "could" happen, but it is very very unlikely - otherwise, wouldn't those same Bellevue people have bought the team from the former ownership group led by Starbuck's billionaire Howard Shultz and then built them a stadium on the Eastside.? :spin:

It would be like this, you mean to tell me that the only way to shake up this community of rich/successful people living in nature's paradise would be for an OKC investment group to purchase the team - then Bellevue would build an arena??>?

doesn't compute - so look for the Sonics (or some form of the teams) to call OKC home once a buyout can be reached. Its only $50M so Im positive that can be raised and the Sonics/Storm will move on.

Congrats to OKC, good luck luring the Clippers or Trailblazers to Seattle (and they'd still have to build them an arena for those teams to move).

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060809/ap_on_sp_bk_ne/bkn_supersonics_arena

I don't think it's a coincidence that Bennett's one-year arena timeline coincides with the Hornets' likely departure from OKC.

What do ya'll think about this? Where will this "world-class" arena be built?

there is no "world class" arena, the ony arena is the Ford Center, and world class was included so Seattle will know that the price tag for an acceptable arena will be in the half billion dollar range, in other words, there is NO chance that the Sonics will stay in Seattle, and Shinn can go back to the swamp. It's going to be perfect, local owners that care about OKC and will never want to move.

Share the WNBA with Tulsa? Are you crazy? Why in the world would OKc want to share with Tulsa? This is one of the things that keeps OKC down. For 80 years Phillip's was in Bartelsville - how many times do you think OKC tried to get them to move to OKC? I would bet none. Citgo was in Tulsa for how many years? Do you think OKC ever tried t0 get them to move to OKC? No. How about Wal-Mart. An OKC rep should be calling on them everyday to move to OKC.

OKC should give nothing away. We are in competition for jobs, entertainment, and people with Tulsa just like we are with KC, Dallas, an Denver. If a company does want to locate to OKC why should Tulsa have a marketing tool that OKC gave them. What happens in OKc should stay in OKC.

I no longer believe OKC will get the team they have earned. Seattle WILL put up the $$ for a new arena. The Hornets will return to NO, and unless DS is lying expansion is not on the table. In addition, Clay Bennett has stated that the new owners as well as local Seattle monied people would contribute to the areana.Maybe I am just a pessimist or you all are just way to optimistic. I do think it would be a shame for local business people to own a team in another City when OKC is deserving, ready and able to support an NBA team

there is no "world class" arena, the ony arena is the Ford Center, and world class was included so Seattle will know that the price tag for an acceptable arena will be in the half billion dollar range, in other words, there is NO chance that the Sonics will stay in Seattle, and Shinn can go back to the swamp. It's going to be perfect, local owners that care about OKC and will never want to move.

You are right, but there is going to BE one according Bennett, so will there be a new “world-class” arena in OKC? Do you all think that Bennett will let OKC down, I hope not.

I no longer believe OKC will get the team they have earned. Seattle WILL put up the $$ for a new arena. The Hornets will return to NO, and unless DS is lying expansion is not on the table. In addition, Clay Bennett has stated that the new owners as well as local Seattle monied people would contribute to the areana.Maybe I am just a pessimist or you all are just way to optimistic. I do think it would be a shame for local business people to own a team in another City when OKC is deserving, ready and able to support an NBA team

If the Mr. Seattle himself (Howard Shultz of Starbucks) couldn't get funding for a new arena, what chance do you think a bunch of "cowboys" from Oklahoma are going to have? Especially considering these cowboys' hometown is one of the most NBA fanatical cities without a team. Surely the politicians up in Seattle will smell something funny and just let the Sonics come here.

"in the summer Seattle gets on average less rain than OKC"

Yes, on average Seattle get less rain than alot of places, it's just that it rain less frequently in Oklahoma but it also rains harder where as in Seattle there are more rainy days but it doesn't rain as hard, it just drizzles constanlty. Averages can be misleading. Still, I'd like to visit Seattle sometime. Just a visit though.

"in the summer Seattle gets on average less rain than OKC"

Yes, on average Seattle get less rain than alot of places, it's just that it rain less frequently in Oklahoma but it also rains harder where as in Seattle there are more rainy days but it doesn't rain as hard, it just drizzles constanlty. Averages can be misleading. Still, I'd like to visit Seattle sometime. Just a visit though.

huh, did I miss something, when did we start talking about rain??

Why share with Tulsa? Both the NBA and WNBA can play in the new "world-class" facility the Bennett is promising, especially if it is in OKC!

Bennet is smart. He is in a no lose situation, imo. He has stated he wants a new arena and for the community to pay for a lot of it. If he gets it, the Sonics will be worth much more than he paid for it. Good market + good arena = greater value. The team could use some work, but I don't think that will hold the value down long term if there's a new Staples Center or American Airlines type venue. In fact, just an announcement of a new arena in the market would probably immeditaley boost the team's worth into an unrealized profit for the Bennet group.

If it doesn't happen he can try to move the team to his hometown that is a proven market with a plug and play arena. Sure, some minor improvements could be made and some major ones would be welcome, but it will make money on day 1.

Either way, the Bennett group will make money with this investment within 2 years. They will either have positive cash flow in OKC, increased net worth in Seattle, or, if they choose to do so, a realized profit from the sale of the Sonics once a new arena deal is made. I don't see how they miss.

And, the spin for OKC if the Sonics do stay in Seattle is that the Bennet group could use that money from the sale of the Sonics on the next opportunity that comes along for the market. Who knows how this will end up, but Bennet's group puts OKC closer to having a team than the Hornets ever have and I don't feel like the Sonics satying in Seattle means game over for OKC. All it would likely mean is more money for Bennet's group to make a play for the next team that comes along.

Nicely put. However, I don't think the Ford Center is a world class facility on the scale that Bennet is talking about. Granted, it would be plug and play but not world class.

Nicely put. However, I don't think the Ford Center is a world class facility on the scale that Bennet is talking about. Granted, it would be plug and play but not world class.

the Ford Center is in the middle third of NBA arenas. It would need some upgrades if it were to be a permanent home for an NBA franchise. I think if an announcement were made that we are getting a team, then you would see a push for some upgrades.

it would be plug and play but not world class.

Exactly. The Ford Center is nice, but nowhere near a show piece. The problem with key and the Seattle lease is that it can't make money despite decent support. The only problem with the Ford Center seems to be who gets what profits.

Now any new team will have a new agreement, but I don't see Bennett getting a bad deal with OKC. I also think that, for better or worse, the OKC community would support publically assisting improvements.

It would need some upgrades if it were to be a permanent home for an NBA franchise

I believe I read an article to that effect in the Oklahoman a few months ago, and that such plans are more or less in the "press the START button" stage. In other words, they already know what they need - seems like a bigger central scoreboard with better video was among them, some refinishing of certain areas, etc...wish I could remember more of the details!!

Everything I've read so far says that Seattle has absolutely zero practical interest in keeping the NBA up there, and there's simply no way anyone's interested in paying for a new arena. Bennett's playing his cards perfectly.

-SoonerDave

Here is the article:

SEATTLE - New SuperSonics owner Clay Bennett is looking for an NBA arena modeled after Safeco Field, the home of baseball's Seattle Mariners, and his team's current home doesn't cut it.
"As we've said before, we don't believe KeyArena is a satisfactory facility," Bennett said Wednesday.
Bennett made his first trip to Seattle since buying the Sonics and WNBA Storm from the Basketball Club of Seattle on July 18 for $350 million. When Bennett bought the team he said that whether the Sonics remain in Seattle would depend on whether the team can agree with the city to renovate KeyArena, or replace it with another arena in the region.
Bennett, chairman of the Oklahoma City-based Professional Basketball Club LLC, said his group is not ruling out a possible remodel of KeyArena, but made clear he'd rather put together a "world-class" sports and entertainment complex on a yet to be determined site.
"That's the idea we have in mind, the development of the finest building in the world. Where that ends up, I don't know," Bennett said. "We want to develop that profile ... and everything in our minds today is on the table."
While in Seattle, Bennett met with local and civic leaders, including Mayor Greg Nickels. He also met with Gov. Chris Gregoire on Wednesday afternoon, before returning to Oklahoma City.
"He envisions a world-class, multipurpose facility which I believe is good for our communities and our state," Gregoire said in a statement. "Mr. Bennett assured me that he and his partners will present a business plan to the public and decision makers so that we can work together to keep the teams in our state."
Nickels said the city wants to keep the Sonics at KeyArena and previous offers for a remodel are still available.
"The deal offered to the previous ownership group is still on the table," Nickels said.
KeyArena was remodeled in 1994-95 and the Sonics have a lease until 2010 with the city. The team and NBA commissioner David Stern both have said that lease is the league's most unfavorable to a team and must be changed — or better yet, a new place must be built with a new lease — for the teams to prosper in the region.
Bennett also met with Sonics All-Star Ray Allen and reassured current Sonics employees that the focus is on keeping the team in Seattle.



Ok people, did you read the article; Bennett said build an arena (not the Ford center). It is suppose to be like Safeco Field.

What does this mean: The Ford Center is in the middle third of NBA arenas?

ETl please read previous posts.

A link to this article has been posted before.

We've all read the article. It says 0 about the Ford Center. In fact, it doesn't even mention Oklahoma City, except to say that's where Bennett's group is from.


What does this mean: The Ford Center is in the middle third of NBA arenas?

Rank the arenas. Group them into three groups. The Ford Center would be in the middle group.

With all due respect, I was under the impression that Clay Bennett's mission was to bring a permanent home team to Oklahoma. I understand it's business, and I would assume his hidden agenda is going on the premise that things don't work out in Seattle. What if they do? Sounds like another Gaylord scheme. Invest hundreds of millions of dollars in another state. Don't give me that argument about how much better the Seattle market is. Sure its larger with more corporate support. But until the Utah Jazz fail in Salt Lake City, an NBA team that really is in the middle of no where, questioning OKC's support versus another city is something I won't buy.

My only last hope with this is that should the Sonics get their new arena in Seattle, that Bennett can sell the Sonics off after their value jumps, make his $350 million back plus the remainder from appreciation, turn around and buy a near defunct team. Who would that be? Would Bennett have to comb through the NHL? Because I don't really know of any other NBA team that is on the fritz with their home city the way the Sonics were with Seattle. Maybe Bennett can make Shinn a sweetheart of a deal, the way that Ron Norick tried to court the NHL back in 1997. Oh, well. Wishful thinking.

But honestly, Clay, what in the hell are you doing?

With all due respect, I was under the impression that Clay Bennett's mission was to bring a permanent home team to Oklahoma. I understand it's business, and I would assume his hidden agenda is going on the premise that things don't work out in Seattle. What if they do? Sounds like another Gaylord scheme. Invest hundreds of millions of dollars in another state. Don't give me that argument about how much better the Seattle market is. Sure its larger with more corporate support. But until the Utah Jazz fail in Salt Lake City, an NBA team that really is in the middle of no where, questioning OKC's support versus another city is something I won't buy.

My only last hope with this is that should the Sonics get their new arena in Seattle, that Bennett can sell the Sonics off after their value jumps, make his $350 million back plus the remainder from appreciation, turn around and buy a near defunct team. Who would that be? Would Bennett have to comb through the NHL? Because I don't really know of any other NBA team that is on the fritz with their home city the way the Sonics were with Seattle. Maybe Bennett can make Shinn a sweetheart of a deal, the way that Ron Norick tried to court the NHL back in 1997. Oh, well. Wishful thinking.

But honestly, Clay, what in the hell are you doing?


Clay's making himself a win-win proposition. Either he gets the "nicest facility in the world" in Seattle for his team, and he makes a ton of money, or he doesn't get the facility and moves to OKC and gets a ton of money. In the event of the later, if he moves to OKC, the city of Seattle is now the bad guy, and not Bennett.

The city has pretty much blown off past ownership on the same request. Now that there's a more urgent threat of losing their team, the city might be more prone to deal with Bennett.

We'll see though. If I were in Bennett's shoes, I would have done exactly the same thing.

ETl please read previous posts.

A link to this article has been posted before.


I did that because people repeatedly said how the Ford Center was not a world-class facility. DUH!!!! I sounded to me that people were not reading the article because they would have realized that Bennett wants to BUILD a “world-class” facility. That is how I justified it. Where this NEW facility will be, we don’t know. I think, no, I hope that Bennett will build that facility here, but I see no reason for that here. Also, I fear that the Sonics may stay in Seattle due to the fact that he wants the NEW stadium to look like Safeco Field, but he could just be playing his cards so that he will be able to bring the Sonics here and not build a NEW stadium. Too, what is wrong with the Ford Center as is?

Now, tell me I was wrong with my justification for posting the article. If I am wrong please tell me.

easy, easy, I was just stating cause you had made a complete new post for Frontier City also.

Nothing against u.

easy, easy, I was just stating cause you had made a complete new post for Frontier City also.

Nothing against u.


Ok, well I had a reason this time. Sorry about the new thread though.

His requests for a new "world class" venue are in context with Seattle, not Oklahoma City. If Seattle does not build one, he is not going to make the same request to OKC. Why? Because the Ford Center is about 2000 capacity bigger than Key and is nicer. So, that's about 80k more seats a year to sell in OKC than Seattle at the moment.

He has not said that the Sonics need a new world class arena wherever they play. He's just saying that's what he wants Seattle to have to keep the team there. He's very early in negotiating with the city and he's not going to compromise right out of the gate.

Now, if he does move them to OKC, is he going to ask for improvements? For sure, but he's not going to ask for a new arena.

This all actually supports what I was saying above. If the team stays in Seattle, he is going to try and add as much value to that team as he can at a minimum of the cost. That way he can flip it. It's only fair that Seattle gets a shot and if they succeed, then he gets paid.


I understand it's business, and I would assume his hidden agenda is going on the premise that things don't work out in Seattle. What if they do?

The he gets paid and has more money with which to try and locate a team in OKC.


I was under the impression that Clay Bennett's mission was to bring a permanent home team to Oklahoma.... what in the hell are you doing?

I think he's doing exactly that. Look around the league. Look around the markets. This is the best shot at a relocation in the near future.

No doubt he wants to have a team in OKC, but he can't just ask nicely and hope to get a team. Teams have leases with cities, teams have loyal owners (some exist), and many teams do just fine. I think Stern made it clear a few months ago that if you are looking for a team any time soon, Seattle is the play.

But there is a lease and it is Seattle's team. Because of that they get a shot to make it work and that makes sense. If it does work out for Seattle, then he's made a little money and he's on to the next play. Las Vegas wants a team. Kansas City wants a team. Lots of cities want a team and Bennett's purchase of the Sonics puts OKC closer than any of those other cities right now. Whether it works out that way, we'll see.

BTW, Seattle is a great market, but Key and the lease suck. With a new arena, no doubt it would be successful and I think Bennett is serious about keeping them there if they build it. Again, he'll just make some money and wait for the next team and see if Oklahoma City can be in the mix at that time, but right now, the play is Seattle and there really aren't any other options.

That makes phenomenal sense to me. That was well put, and thanks you for making it clear!

Ok, well I had a reason this time. Sorry about the new thread though.

ETL, its cool. It happens to all of us.

I didn't point it out the first time, cause we all make mistakes and make new threads when not needed.

Please do not take offense to my previous remarks, just keep it in mind, thats all. :)

ETL, its cool. It happens to all of us.

I didn't point it out the first time, cause we all make mistakes and make new threads when not needed.

Please do not take offense to my previous remarks, just keep it in mind, thats all. :)

I have not taken offense, and thank you for letting me know.:spin:

I think you guys aren't reading into the article what I am. Clay is setting the bar so high for Seattle, that he knows they're not going to go for it. If they wouldn't vote for the former owner a new average facility, you really think they're going to vote for a $500 million world class facility? I think Clay knows that if he sets the bar high enough they won't be able to reach it, and if they choose to reach it, Clay is going to make one hell of a return when he sells the team.

Makes sense to me, but alas, no new world-class facily for OKC. Well, maybe we will get the Sonics. We already have Sonic HQ!!! :spin: LOL

Makes sense to me, but alas, no new world-class facily for OKC. Well, maybe we will get the Sonics. We already have Sonic HQ!!! :spin: LOL

Well, we don't need a world-class facility. Our arena may not be world-class but it works.

Well, we don't need a world-class facility. Our arena may not be world-class but it works.

TOO true!

It is time for us all to get real with this situation. Now that we have had time to truly digest this transaction, I for one have lost my initial euphoria reagrding the purchase. My initial reaction was Ok, now we have a team of our own, owned by Oklahomans, but Whoa nelley, not so fast, our homeboys agree to make an effort to keep the team in Seattle, so Oklahoma City is really no better off than with the Hornets, owned by a non Oklahoman with the intent of returning the team to NO. I think we should support the Hornets for this year, but to keep hope alive for a team of our own (out of these two options) given the current information is tiring. Maybe the guy who said we would be disappointed in the end was on to something.

Could Bennett's proposal backfire keeping the Sonics in Seattle? Yes. However, unlikely. Patrick makes sense.

All I want is a team. I do not care if it is the Hornets, the Sonics or an expansion team. Now, if we got the Lakers to move out of Los Angeles, that would really be neat. I know, however, that is not going to happen.

Give me the Sonics so I can enjoy my season tickets and my Sonic drink I will get free when the company gives them away for some acomplishments during Sonic night at the Sonics.

I really am hoping for an expansion team. Despite what Stern has said before, I think he may be considering two additonal teams for 32 and I also think he was sincere when he stated he would do whatever necessary to support a team in Oklahoma City. Let me be clear, I think Oklahoma City WILL get an NBA franchise, just maybe not the Sonics.

I think you guys aren't reading into the article what I am. Clay is setting the bar so high for Seattle, that he knows they're not going to go for it. If they wouldn't vote for the former owner a new average facility, you really think they're going to vote for a $500 million world class facility? I think Clay knows that if he sets the bar high enough they won't be able to reach it, and if they choose to reach it, Clay is going to make one hell of a return when he sells the team.

makes sense.

The Soncis franchise is coming to OKC. This isn't hard to see. Bennett formed an LLC with the sole purpose of bring an NBA to OKC. He bought the team, which is step one.

Part of the deal to buy the team was to try and keep them Seattle. In other words - let the people of Seattle reject the team. That is what the arena deal is all about. There is no way the city of Seattle is going to fork out that kind of money. Clay knows it, the city of Seattle knows and the residents of Seattle know it. However, they have to go through the process of rejecting it so the Sonics can get out of the lease before 2010.

Juat look at the Hornets if you want proof. Shinn did everything he could to keep the Hornets in OKC. Then suddenly Clay buys the Soncis and now George can't seem to wait to get back to New Orleans.

This is how it is going to break down over the next 3 years. In 2007 the Hornets return to New Orleans and the Soncis franchise moves to OKC. In 2008 the Trailblazers move from Portland to Seattle and use the Sonics name. The Hornets declare New Orleans a financial disaster and move to Kansas City. The Magic moves to Tampa. If there are 2 more expansion teams they are awarded to St Louis and San Diego in 2010. In 2011 Daniel Stern holds a press conference saying has just over saw the biggest change in NBA history and announces his retirement.

I no longer believe OKC will get the team they have earned. Seattle WILL put up the $$ for a new arena. The Hornets will return to NO, and unless DS is lying expansion is not on the table. In addition, Clay Bennett has stated that the new owners as well as local Seattle monied people would contribute to the areana.Maybe I am just a pessimist or you all are just way to optimistic. I do think it would be a shame for local business people to own a team in another City when OKC is deserving, ready and able to support an NBA team

Dont count on that. We have "put up the dollars" for two stadiums now, and we have way more pressing issues with our lack of infrastructure here in the Seattle/Tacoma Puget Sound region. Unlike in OKC, we have a lack of freeways and our "great" bus system uses the exact same freeways as our plethora of single drivers do - so it makes no difference to commute (other than you can sleep on the way to work).

I can promise you all that the SONICS will call OKC home because consider this

1) there is no way in hell we will vote yes for an arena in Seattle in November. We have too many pressing and expensive issues to take care of (like transportation) to give a hoot about the underperforming SONICs.

2) Clay gave the city 1 year deadline from the date of purchase (which is October or something like that). Well in reality, that really gives the city 6 months, because our state legislature closes in January and I can assure you that they WILL NOT go into special session for the SONICS. The city of Seattle WILL NOT fund a new stadium - and the residents will NOT vote for a MAPS type of tax to save the team. We would vote for infrastructure - not the revenue stream (see profits) for a out-of-towner.

There are other reasons, but consider only these two and you will see that 1) there is no year timeframe, only 5 months left for the city/state to come up with something. and 2) ask the average majority here and most would rather spend $$ billion dollars on transportation infrastructure that we lack here rather than a World Class basketball arena.

Its not gonna happen. Now, that being said - maybe Seattle would get an expansion team later, but the Sonics will be heading for fairer pastures - and not everyone in Seattle thinks OKC is so bad. You have to remember, most of those who posted the bad remarks are die hard Sonics fans and idiots who are just looking to poke at the NEW COMER. We all know OKC is doing well supporting the Hornets and we actually thought that OKC would get the team permanently. Remember those NO posters who also poked at OKC, same thing.

In the end, OKC will get a team. Im betting on the Sonics and I think 99% chance they will call OKC home - if not in 2007 then definitely in 2010. Because there is no way the state, city, or residents will pay for a new stadium to be built. Those are facts. :gossip:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-bin/PrintStory.pl?document_id=2003265181&zsection_id=2002111777&slug=sonics19m&date=20060919

Interesting read. I wonder if the Seattle taxpayers vote down this measure to possibly creat tax incentives for keeping the team there that if it will speed up the process of possibly relocating the team to OKC.

What this is is a group who actually opposes building the arena. If we pass this, then it would only raise the stakes for Bennet and company because such an arena would have to earn a return on investment - in other words, it can't operate in the red which is something that most major arenas (including the current KEY Arena) are known for.

If this measure is approved, then Bennet and co would be REQUIRED to have a plan in place that assures profit to the city of Seattle.

The I-91 leader was on TV saying "if they (OKC) wanna open their rich Oklahoma sized checkbooks and guarantee a return to the taxpayers of Seattle, then we can play ball." Only then would the city be allowed to spend dollars to upgrade KEY (and it still would be the smallest in the NBA). If the owners don't guarantee a return of profit to the city, well then "hasta la vista on to OKC."

Doesn't sound like an attractive business deal after all, now does it? I mean, most NBA franchises have guarantees from the city such that THEY would make profit and the city would "cash in" on the entertainment value and marketing exposure - aka, the New Orleans/Oklahoma City Hornets and their agreement with OKC.

So, in effect if this measure passes (which it probably will), then Seattle would turn the tables on this ownership group or any other and require the team to make a new arena profitable. Too risky, considering that the arena would sit empty much of the time and dont forget that costs are much higher up here.

In short, if we pass this initiative 91, then we could probably say goodbye to the Seattle Supersonics and Storm because it makes absolutely NO BUSINESS SENSE for an ownership group in OKC to buy a team and not be able to make profit.

I think it will pass because 1) frantic NBA fans will vote for it without REALLY reading what the initiative is 2) the majority of the Seattle residents dont want to shell out dollars for the arena anyways - so its sort of a "quick and easy" way out 3) those here who think Oklahoma City owes Seattle something just because Bennet bought the team will want to "stick it to him". If all is true, it will pass and the team will shortly thereafter announce that the economics could not work out. Then immediate relocation to OKC is assured since the profit guarantee is there.

Even if the I-91 does not pass, I still look for the team to leave because the city would not be allowed to build an arena. The state WILL NOT build them one either. So it would be up to a partnership between a suburb and Bennet and honestly, I dont see that happening - unless Bennet and company relocate to Seattle. Building a new arena would be just as expensive in the suburbs as it would be to replace or upgrade Key Arena (plus you'd have to build in contingencies for the mass of people).

Even though we have lots of microsoft money here, I dont see it happening. I mean, if we didnt do this when we owned the team why would it all of sudden happen now? especially for an OKC based ownership who definitely should be in it to make $$.

I just dont see OKC giving Seattle any gifts nor do I see anyone in Washington who will pay to build a new arena. I-91 provides a very quick and easy "goodbye" for the Sonics should it pass. If it doesn't, then it will drag on but still the end result will still be the same: the lease to KEY will be broken or bought and the teams will move to OKC.

Sorry for the long post, but you really have to read between the lines on these things. I-91 does NOT say Seattle will build an arena, it says Seattle can IF the owners back out of the profit. Plain and simple.

I think many will think I-91 is to keep the Sonics so they will vote yes. I think the majority will know that I-91 puts a nonprofit clause to OKC, something which would provide a quick exit for the team since Bennet and CO can't just say it "we're moving to OKC".

Consequently, they will also vote yes - in that they know the owners wont agree to that and we wont have to pay for an arena.

I just dont know why people from OKC always care about what other people think. Had Bennet been from KC or Vegas, the team would have immediately moved to those places. Why is it that OKC has to "not offend anyone" when it comes to these things? I just don't get it.

But I-91 gives the easy and quick way out of the Sonics, plain and simple.

I just dont know why people from OKC always care about what other people think. Had Bennet been from KC or Vegas, the team would have immediately moved to those places. Why is it that OKC has to "not offend anyone" when it comes to these things? I just don't get it.


It sounds like Bennett's group would not have won the deal had they not promised to give it a year to come up with a solution. Bennett and company were not the high bidder's for the Sonics, yet they were willing to work with Seattle to keep the team there should everything fall in place and the previous owners found that very desirable considering their standing in Seattle. It's a legal matter in moving the Sonics to OKC at this point in time, I don't believe it has anything to do with not wanting to hurt anyone's feelings in Seattle. On top of that, I believe David Stern is very much in charge of this situation. He wants to do everything he possibly can to see if Seattle (which is a huge market) can retain the team because of demographics.

If this measure is approved, then Bennet and co would be REQUIRED to have a plan in place that assures profit to the city of Seattle.

Bennett and the Sonics would be tenants of the arena, not the owners of it, right? If so, it wouldn't be their responsibility to make the arena profitable per se, but the city would only be allowed to build one with public money if it was shown to be profitable.

I think the end result is the same, because it puts so much pressure on the city to make guaranteed profitable leases, that, as the prime tenant, the Sonics would have to agree to terms that would hinder their ability to make a profit. Essentially, they would have to guarantee enough up front to make the arena profitable themselves.

Maybe I'm just being technical here, but I think this measure actually puts pressure on the city, which would hamper their position in any negotiation with any tenant or lessee. Theoretically, the city could find other tenants for the arena that, combined, would make the arena profitable and lessen to pressure to make all the money back from just the Sonics.

It actually sounds like a pretty reasonable measure, but it does make Seattle uncompetitive simply because so many other cities are willing to take a hit on the arena to have access to the attractions and events the arena brings.

With the Hornets definitely leaving, it will be very interesting to watch Bennett & Co. in Seattle.

Looks like their public funding proposal will go to the Washington legislature in the next week or so, and that will probably seal the fate of the team one way or another:



Sonics’ arena plan delayed
By RACHEL LA CORTE - Associated Press Writer
Wednesday, January 31, 2007 10:21 AM PST


OLYMPIA — An already delayed financing plan for a new $500 million arena for the Seattle SuperSonics won’t be ready for lawmakers this week as initially promised.

Last-minute adjustments with cost figures on infrastructure, access and parking were delaying the plan Tuesday, team spokesman Jim Kneeland said.

“Those are the things that have been more challenging,” Kneeland said. “We really feel that it’s important that we get a handle on those before we start walking in with a single number. That’s what we’re trying to do.”

In a letter to Gov. Chris Gregoire earlier this month, Sonics owner Clay Bennett said the teams would ask for at least $300 million in taxpayer money.

Sen. Margarita Prentice, D-Renton and chairwoman of the Ways and Means committee, said Bennett called her Tuesday afternoon to say the plan wouldn’t be ready until next week.

“He says they don’t have enough definitive elements of the deal,” said Prentice, who has spoken highly in favor of helping to finance a new arena for the Sonics. “He wants to get it right.”

Kneeland said Bennett was in New York for a Wednesday meeting with the NBA, but that team officials were planning to have a proposal ready for lawmakers early next week.

Bennett has said he hopes to have the building completed in the fall of 2010, which would coincide with the end of the Sonics’ current lease at Seattle’s KeyArena. The team has been losing money under that lease and Bennett has said it will lose $20 million this season.




Initially a plan was to be presented to lawmakers at the start of the legislative session on Jan. 8. That deadline was later moved to the Jan. 18, and then to Wednesday before Tuesday’s announcement of the new delay.

Some lawmakers expressed frustration with the ever-moving target.

“The longer they delay getting us the plan the harder it is for us to even consider their proposal,” said House Majority Leader Lynn Kessler, D-Hoquiam. “I can understand that they want to make a good proposal. But we’re moving right along here in the session, so it’s a shame that they’re waiting until, what, the fifth week?”

Kneeland said team officials are sensitive to the time crunch lawmakers face, but want to make sure they present lawmakers with the most comprehensive plan.

“We’re working to make sure we have the best answer rather than just the quickest answer,” he said. “We are very sensitive to those deadlines and we’re trying to find ways to make this work.”

Prentice said her patience hasn’t been exhausted, and that she was impressed with Bennett.

“These are really complicated things,” she said. “He’s been looking at everything. He’s been talking to a lot of people. Frankly, I like the way he works.”

Earlier this month, Bennett told The Associated Press that the plan calls for a state-of-the-art arena in the Seattle suburbs that would seat approximately 18,500. It would be built in one of two spots along Interstate 405 — in Renton across the street from a retail and housing development known as “The Landing,” or in Bellevue along a business stretch called “Auto Row.”

The new building would house the Sonics, the WNBA Seattle Storm, and events such as concerts and perhaps national political conventions.

The taxpayer share of its cost would come from the King County restaurant and rental-car taxes that helped build Safeco Field for baseball’s Seattle Mariners. The Legislature would have to authorize the alternative use of the money.

But if the Legislature doesn’t take any action and a new arena is not agreed upon by Oct. 31, a clause in the $350 million purchase contract for the Sonics and Storm that Bennett signed last July allows the team to move to Oklahoma City . Bennett and his seven co-investors in the Sonics and Storm are all prominent residents of Oklahoma City.

when will we know for sure, one way or the other?

when will we know for sure, one way or the other?

Well based on the above article, I'm guessing Nov. 1st, 2007, just in time for our states Centennial:

But if the Legislature doesn’t take any action and a new arena is not agreed upon by Oct. 31, a clause in the $350 million purchase contract for the Sonics and Storm that Bennett signed last July allows the team to move to Oklahoma City .

But if the Legislature doesn’t take any action and a new arena is not agreed upon by Oct. 31, a clause in the $350 million purchase contract for the Sonics and Storm that Bennett signed last July allows the team to move to Oklahoma City .

For the '08-'09 season? I was hoping we might know when the legislature adjourns this spring. It's going to suck not having NBA hoops for awhile.