I've got a friend that's part of the mgmt team at Ford/Cox and she's told me she has seen a master plan with a new convention center south of the Ford Center and the new arena where the Cox Center is now.

That sounds perfect to me.

Sounds perfect to me too. That would be a great location, we'd still have the 50 plus steps between champions for the Big Twelve Championship and the Ford Center could tie in to the convention center for really large group meetings. I agree that it would be a mistake to put a new arena too far from the Ford and/or Bricktown.

Mayor Mick needs his suit tailored. It's too big for him. I'm surprised Esquire let that fly honestly. Anyhow, it's kind of strange we haven't heard much from ole' Mick since he lost the District 5 Congress race. He had some momentum going there for awhile.

Might he be thinking about running for governor? It's basically a step up job from mayor. There were a lot of people who didn't vote for him for Congress because they didn't want him leaving Oklahoma City.

He's turned the mayor into a prestigeous job, being mayor of a major city is a great thing - and now, being mayor of Oklahoma City is probably better than being governor of Oklahoma.

If only the pay were commensurate, then we'd probably move up the charts. Personally, I hope Mick sticks around to finalize the Sonics and get Maps III going, since those are his babies. After that, then he can be gov, or senator (you know he will work for OKC!!!!) or something else where he can work for OKC,

and we'd need a mayor similar in many ways (can do pro business progressive, maybe a bit more socially liberal or moderate tho). That way, Oklahoma City can continue its renaissance and truly become the shining star of the south central states (take that, Dallas and Houston!!).

Mayor Mick needs his suit tailored. It's too big for him


I think it's the way he's leaning back and the light color of the suit that gives the impression that it's big on him. The sleeves are the right length and the shoulder seams are placed properly.

I think he looks nice but this thread isn't about his threads.. lol - back to Sonics.

I've got a friend that's part of the mgmt team at Ford/Cox and she's told me she has seen a master plan with a new convention center south of the Ford Center and the new arena where the Cox Center is now.

I hope this is what happens because it makes such great sense.

The Cox Center doesn't have much more life in it and that location is perfect. They can scrape the arena and keep the subterranean parking and some of the other infrastructure.

Would love to see the new arena become a real architectural showpiece along with plenty of restaurants and a sports bar or two.

I think the arena should be across the street from Ford Center, on the other side of I-40/the new boulevard, creating a Gateway effect with the two arenas. The new convention center could be built on the other side of EK and could involve a redesign/incorporation of the train trax, perhaps Commuter Rail.

This would create a TRUE convention/stadium district AND open up the COX lands for expanding the CBD. Bricktown would still be a block away and we would still have the less than 100 steps moniker plus a new gateway boulevard 'leading into the only true Renaissance City'.

I think the 4 square blocks the Cox is on would be PRIME for growing the CBD and that ist the best use for it. Having the new arena at the new boulevard also provides GREAT ACCESS without tying up the CBD, since the boulevard will be 6 lanes - EASY EASY ACCESS TO FORD AND THE NEW ARENA!!!

HOT ROD... I like that plan. Email that to the Mayor.

I wonder how feasible it would be to completely renovate the Cox into a hotel/convention center?

I am not sure you can just tear down the Cox Center to build an arena, or expand it into a convention center/hotel, or anything like that. All of the Renaissance's meeting space (nearly 100,000 square feet) is in the north end of the Cox Center, except for a couple boardrooms on the 2nd floor. I am sure the Renaissance has some sort of long-term contract to operate that area of the Cox. Although, I am sure the city could buy it out, but what happens to the Renaissance then? We don't want a non-viable hotel downtown-- especially with the Renaissance name. A couple possible solutions off the top of my head:

- Allow the Renaissance to have the NE corner of where the Cox now is, and redevelop the rest of the land.
- Let the Renaissance operate as-is, build a new arena south of the Ford Center, and redevelop the Cox Arena into more meeting space.
- Let the Renaissance take over the whole Cox or a great deal of it, build a new tower where the Arena is now, and have a double-towered Renaissance with 1000+ rooms.

All that being said, I think that the Cox Center would be a great location for a new Arena. If they can make that work and not lose the Renaissance as a viable hotel, I will be happy.

Have to agree with Berry on this deal...We would be the scourge of the sports world if we did foot the bill for the Sonics to bust a lease on a city that supported them for 40 years.....Give them a sweet deal, but don't pay for the buyout....Already going to have a bad enough image if the Sonics do move

By Berry Tramel
Staff Writer


Eighteen months ago, George Shinn told me he planned to keep his NBA Hornets in Oklahoma City and negotiate his way out of the New Orleans lease. Go to court, if he had to.

And if need be, Shinn said, he would ask Oklahoma City — elected officials, business leaders, presumably anyone who lives or works in OKC, you, me — to pay his way free.

Shinn eventually changed his mind. Decided the right thing to do was go back to the Big Easy and give it the old pro try.

But Shinn's plan was resurrected last weekend with a different owner and a different franchise, according to the Tacoma News-Tribune, which reported that SuperSonics chairman Clay Bennett told employees Oklahoma City is willing to pay the freight, quite literally, to bring the NBA franchise here.

A spruced-up Ford Center, followed soon by a new arena. But also, the anonymous source reported, relocation fees, which figure to be around $30 million. And legal fees for negotiating out of the KeyArena lease. And moving costs for the franchise and its employees.

Fix up the Ford Center? Fine. Build a glittering new arena next door? Grand.

But jump in the car with what everyone in Seattle believes is the Barrow Gang and bankroll the removal of the Sonics from their 40-year home? Bad idea.

No way should Oklahoma City go beyond providing the Sonics with good digs and a favorable lease, and Mayor Mick Cornett says such talks have not been held.

Bennett responded to the story by saying he was speaking hypothetically, and he and his Sonics partners are saying nothing publicly and might not for several weeks; any time they've opened their mouth the last month, it lights a forest fire.

Cornett said Oklahoma City's position hasn't changed. It wants an NBA team, and he knows what it will take: renovations to the Ford Center in the short term, eventually a new arena and practice facility.

But he termed "preposterous” the idea that OKC has talked of funding the relocation.

Let's hope it stays that way. Oklahoma City should not get its hands financially dirty by paying relocation fees or attorney fees. That's counterproductive to the long-term goal, which is elevated status of the city.

Being in a major league with New York and Chicago and L.A. is heady stuff, but financially colluding with Bennett to remove the Sonics would counter the benefits. Oklahoma City, a feel-good NBA story for the way it propped up the Hornets these last two seasons, would be looked on as a robber baron.

Any owner who threatens to hit the highway with his franchise is demonized. But the city he lands in usually escapes such scrutiny.

That would change if Oklahoma City bankrolls the Sonics' move. OKC is not desperate. We lived a long time without the NBA, and we could live some more the same way.

Just because Bennett and Co. are old friends worthy of trust doesn't mean they can have the city's credit card. Every owner, every sport, wants to squeeze out the best deal for his franchise. That's what owners do, shoot for the moon. Heck, that's what Bennett's doing in Seattle, asking for a $500 million arena.

Oklahoma City should do all it can to prep for an NBA team's arrival, but it should not help pack the moving vans.

The Sonics and OKC officials have been talking, and to think otherwise is foolish. Bennett has said if he has no arena deal by Oct. 31, he will file a relocation request with the NBA.

You don't file a relocation request without knowing exactly what you're getting where you're going. Of course Oklahoma City and the Sonics group have talked.

But hopefully, that talk has not included financing the fleeing of Seattle. And won't.

It seems the ownership group and civic leaders are really making some bonehead PR moves just as the long-awaited deadline approaches.

First, McClendon shoots hits mouth off and strongly implies the owners haven't really been dealing with Seattle in good faith,despite claiming the contrary for a year. Then, they start talking about negotiations with OKC that certainly don't sound hypothetical.

Everyone knows this stuff is going on but to blurt it out now really jeopardizes everything they've been working towards. Incredibly bad judgment being shown here just as we are about to cross the finish line.

I agree .. if they would have just been patient a little longer and kept quiet, the possible relocation would have most likely received a much more favorable reaction.

Now, everyone will find a reason to hate us even more for 'stealing' their team ... we just can't win.

Part of his renewed Good Faith Effort plan I'm sure....Wonder what kind of reception he received at the track...Sure this tour will be met with some widespread skepticism up there

Local News | Sonics owner tours racetrack | Seattle Times Newspaper (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003871076_bennett06m.html)

Sonics owner tours racetrack

By Jim Brunner
Seattle Times staff reporter

Sonics and Storm owner Clay Bennett visited Emerald Downs horse-racing track Wednesday to weigh a budding proposal by the Muckleshoot Indian Tribe to build a new basketball arena near the track.

Bennett was joined by Emerald Downs President Ron Crockett and King County Councilmember Pete von Reichbauer, according to people familiar with the meeting.

A spokesman for Bennett said he could not be reached for comment.

Bennett met with Muckleshoot representatives in February but had been criticized by some Sonics and Storm fans for not following up with a tour of the Auburn track. In a July interview, Bennett said the tribe had not presented him with a substantive arena plan.

The Muckleshoots, who own the Emerald Downs land, have hired the consulting firm Brailsford & Dunlavey to study whether a new arena would work next to the track, 25 miles south of Seattle.

The tribe last month said its consultant's initial research indicated the location could work. The tribe is expected to release more detailed information this month.

A tribal spokesman declined to comment Wednesday. Crockett could not be reached for comment.

Von Reichbauer, who also would not comment, has long supported a new arena to keep the Sonics in the state. The Federal Way Republican also was active in efforts to build the Seahawks and Mariners stadiums.

Despite Bennett's visit Wednesday, the Muckleshoots' arena plan is far from complete. It is not yet clear how much money the tribe would devote to an arena, or how much taxpayers would be asked to contribute.

Bennett's Oklahoma City-based ownership group, which purchased the Sonics and Storm for $350 million last year, has not endeared itself to skeptical local fans lately.

Co-owner Aubrey McClendon touched off a new round of criticism last month when he told an Oklahoma newspaper the owners never intended to keep the teams in Seattle. The NBA said it would fine McLendon $250,000 for that remark.

If the owners don't get a new arena deal in the Seattle area by Oct. 31, Bennett has said he'll ask the NBA for permission to relocate the teams to Oklahoma City.

Seattle Mayor Greg Nickels has said he'll fight to hold the Sonics to their KeyArena lease, which runs through September 2010.

Bob Santos, the longtime Seattle activist who first pitched the idea of a basketball arena to the Muckleshoots, said he was pleased that Bennett finally toured Emerald Downs.

"At least he's making the rounds," Santos said. "The Muckleshoots aren't going to give him everything he wants, but they're going to make it pretty appealing."

City Council vows to enforce KeyArena lease

By Jim Brunner
Seattle Times staff reporter

Hoping to send a clear message to team owner Clay Bennett, the Seattle City Council today voted to hold the Sonics to the team's KeyArena lease through September 2010.

The action, taken at the request of a Sonics' and Storm fan group, was largely symbolic. Seattle Mayor Greg Nickels has repeatedly said he will enforce the Sonics lease and has rejected suggestions by Bennett that an early buyout could be negotiated.

Council members said they hoped the ordinance would encourage new talks to keep the Sonics and Storm at KeyArena, despite the hostile relationship between the city and team owners over the past few years.

"If the relationship is the metaphor, then I suppose we want to go to couples counseling," said City Councilmember Sally Clark, who co-sponsored the ordinance.

The council ordinance was patterned after an initiative filed by the fan group Save Our Sonics and Storm, which has been pressuring city leaders to enforce the KeyArena lease.

Jim Brunner: 206-515-5628 or jbrunner@seattletimes.com

Copyright © 2007 The Seattle Times Company

Looks like they passed it...I like this part from the PI story

Peter Steinbrueck was one council member who expressed doubts, though he ultimately voted in favor as well, saying he wanted to support the Sonics and Storm.

Steinbrueck feels the ordinance eliminates one negotiating tool between the city and Sonics ownership in finding a long-term resolution and could merely serve to push Bennett away.

"It's more symbolic than anything and it really doesn't get us anywhere," Steinbrueck said. "It could backfire. Isn't the ultimate goal to keep the teams here beyond 2010? What we need to do is sober up and tone down and find out what exactly it would take to get a longer-term commitment.

No big shock here. We get close to the deadline...and all the 11th hour work has begun. I say 40% chance the team moves to OKC. We all would love it here, but all these noise coming out now...is usually started by talks in the background. The political heads there are just trying to get the public rallied to help support the team and seal the deal.

Its natural for people to not care about something that they are use to...until it is gone. Yes Clay is an Okie...and would like to have a team here. However...he also wants to make money. Having to take losses on getting out of the lease and other costs, would probably overwhelm him. He wouldn't see a ROI for years.

I think it's a risky move on the part of the council. It is a very adversarial position to take, basically a slap in the face of the owners, since the mayor had already said he wouldn't negotiate the lease. The question is, does this truly motivate the local government to get something done on an arena? Is there any way they would vote to finance a new arena without a public vote, and if not, would the voting public truly agree to finance one? Does this make it more likely that a privately financed arena will get built, with terms that are fiscally favorable to the owners? If not, does the ownership group get discouraged and sell the team? Or, do they get truly ticked off, and move the team whenever they can do so legally, just to spit in the face of the Seattle politicians? The last question is regarding David Stern's take on all of this. He's been very quiet. Will he step up and adopt a particular position in this matter, or will he passively sit back and let matters develop without interference?

Looks like they passed it...I like this part from the PI story

"It's more symbolic than anything and it really doesn't get us anywhere," Steinbrueck said "What we need to do is sober up and tone down and find out what exactly it would take to get a longer-term commitment."

This is why Seattle is in such trouble. Their political leadership is dumb as rocks. What would it take to get a longer commitment? How about a new arena dumbass. And can someone please explain to me what "enforcing the lease" means. I know the Seattle fans thinks it means the team has to play home games inside Key arena but good luck enforcing that. Seattle is already floating the idea of rebuilding Key Arena and having the Sonics play home games in Tacoma for 2 years. How can this be if the contract says the games have to be played inside Key Arena? They can't have it both ways.

And a side note to those posting on the Seattle Times Forum - stop being wussus. OKC is not stealing the team - an Oklahoma City investment group payed above market value for them. If they cry babies on the Times forum don't like it then tuff. And someone tell Parallel Forest to stop being a self-hating Oklahoman. Oh wait, I just did.

Sounds like a Lawton person from the handle...They tend to be down on Oklahoma since Lawton sucks so bad.

Actually the guy he's referring to is from Norman, when I've read the times, I've seen his posts. He claims to be a liberal "forward thinking" Oklahoman but his posts are more destructive than good.

He seems to be pi**ed off at someone, not unlike most most of the liberal persuasion it's always someone else at fault their life sucks.

Kinda like the people in Seattle. Instead of doing something about it, wine about how unfair it is they don't get their way.

If the past few above posts are referring to people who attribute themselves as being either from or partial to Oklahoma, great care should be taken in reading the Seattle Times forums ... I don't read it anymore, but, unless it has changed, many people who are attributed names (such as "Doug Dawg", "Brakeback Doug", which have been attributed to me ... even though I've never made a post there and didn't even know about the forum until I was told that my name was being used in this fashion ... but there are others, also) of people (like me) who hang out in the Hornets/Sonics Central Okc forum) are, in fact, imposters who use Oklahoma-friendly names to stir up trouble there and create bad impressions on Oklahomans and generate ill will toward Oklahoma City. The Seattle times does nothing to "clean up" that kind of stuff ... and, by doing nothing, the Seattle Times actually encourages it.

Point: Don't assume that what you read in there from someone who claims to be from Oklahoma IS from Oklahoma. At least 2 are almost certainly people at the New Orleans Hornets internet forum.

If the past few above posts are referring to people who attribute themselves as being either from or partial to Oklahoma, great care should be taken in reading the Seattle Times forums ... I don't read it anymore, but, unless it has changed, many people who are attributed names (such as "Doug Dawg", "Brakeback Doug", which have been attributed to me ... even though I've never made a post there and didn't even know about the forum until I was told that my name was being used in this fashion ... but there are others, also) of people (like me) who hang out in the Hornets/Sonics Central Okc forum) are, in fact, imposters who use Oklahoma-friendly names to stir up trouble there and create bad impressions on Oklahomans and generate ill will toward Oklahoma City. The Seattle times does nothing to "clean up" that kind of stuff ... and, by doing nothing, the Seattle Times actually encourages it.

Point: Don't assume that what you read in there from someone who claims to be from Oklahoma IS from Oklahoma. At least 2 are almost certainly people at the New Orleans Hornets internet forum.

Yeah Doug I see a big difference in your writing style on that forum...Someone is a huge fan of yours :Smiley199

Actually the guy he's referring to is from Norman, when I've read the times, I've seen his posts. He claims to be a liberal "forward thinking" Oklahoman but his posts are more destructive than good.

That poster is someone who is clearly ashamed to be from Oklahoma. It would be nice to get rid of that kind of attitude. He carefully ignores the ignorant and obnoxious posters from Seattle and New Orleans, and apologizes for those from here. It shows a lack of understanding of sports forums, which draw out some people who enjoy being rude and inflammatory. If the people from Seattle don't understand that those people aren't representative of this state, it's because they don't want to. It's easier to hate people from here, because it allows them to ignore what the city of Seattle and state of Washington have done to drive the Sonics away.

The nice thing about a forum like this is that it's designed to promote and enhance people's enjoyment of the state.....a positive thing. I've never lived anywhere that couldn't stand improvment, but it's nice to work for it, rather than acting as an apologist for the existing problems.

Very curious.....Can everyone give input or percentages if we are going to get the sonics. The chances of the hornets coming back and the possiblility of a new franchise being created. thanks

Patrol, I don't see how any of us would be in a position to do that for you.

I suppose I could make up a number and say that there is a 3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375 10582097494459230781640628620899862803482534211706 79
82148086513282306647093844609550582231725359408128 48111745028410270193852110555964462294895493038196
44288109756659334461284756482337867831652712019091 45648566923460348610454326648213393607260249141273
72458700660631558817488152092096282925409171536436 7892590360011330530548820466521384146951941511609. .. percent chance that a new franchise will be created.

Sorry dude or whatever....I basically know the current situation. I just havent read anything from the poster Hot Rod who usually gives major input and is from seattle or at least I have read so. Sorry if you took it personally or you didnt like the position....LOL...No need to respond....Dont want anyone to git their panties in a wad.

There's a 100% chance that you will get a smartass answer from the above poster.

There is a 99% chance the Sonics are moving to OKC. The big question is when. The NBA Board of Governors will approve the move because each one of them might have to move a team in the future and they don't want to be on record as opposing anyone else.

Even if the Seattle City Council did pass their little illegal ordinace, the fact is that they are the leadership of the City and not just the Save or Sonics crowd. If Clay puts an offer on the table then they owe it to the residents of Seattle that are not Sonics fans to consider that offer. At the end of the day the have an obligation to make the best financial decision for the city as a whole and according to the city attorney Seattle loses money everytime the Sonics play..

I wish I could agree with you on the 99% chance the Sonics are moving here. Things are starting to move in Seattle, and David Stern would rather have the Sonics in Seattle if they get a new arena.

Local News | Gorton helped keep M's; now he'll work on Sonics | Seattle Times Newspaper (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003882177_gorton13m.html)

There's a 100% chance that you will get a smartass answer from the above poster.

And why not? The question is ridiculous. You're asking a bunch of people whose information amounts to message boards and news releases to quantify the chance that an event happens in the future.

There is no possible way anyone here (or anywhere) could even begin to give you an accurate number as the percentage chance that the Sonics move to OKC. So yeah, I'm a smartass.. but the question is completely inane.

As far as I know, only Dean Blevins has this mystical power which you seek.

And why not? The question is ridiculous. You're asking a bunch of people whose information amounts to message boards and news releases to quantify the chance that an event happens in the future.

There is no possible way anyone here (or anywhere) could even begin to give you an accurate number as the percentage chance that the Sonics move to OKC. So yeah, I'm a smartass.. but the question is completely inane.

As far as I know, only Dean Blevins has this mystical power which you seek.

Yeah Dean is pulling a Berry Tramel regarding the Sonics...He has essentially guaranteed the Sonics are moving to OKC

Didn't work out so well for Berry so Dean's assurances mean crapo to me

Lord knows how this mess will turn out

I still think the only thing we as a city can do is keep things as positive as possible around here for the owners. And the only thing we can do to remind David Stern that we are ready and willing to support a team (unless you want to start a letter writing campaign) is to go to the Hornets' preseason game and encourage everyone you know to go as well. A sell out or close to it will get attention, as it's not very common for preseason games to do so. David Stern may have a short memory, and we're a small market, so we need to do everything we can to stay in sight. It's not completely impossible that the Sonics stay in Seattle and the Hornets move here. I know we'd all prefer Bennett and the group as owners, but beggars cannot be choosers, and the last time I looked we were beggars. It wouldn't hurt for people to watch the Hornets' games on tv as well this season, since David Stern arranged for them to be broadcast here as a special favor to us.

We need to remember that in regards to professional teams, it's a seller's market and if we want one, we have to go the extra mile, not the owners or the NBA.

Okay betts, so you'd suggest that there be a moratorium on all OKC boards of giving out percentages regarding the Sonics moving here of less than 51 percent?

A "positive attitude" is totally worthless. Whatever helps you sleep at night though.

Essentially, the ball is in Seattle's court... er courts.

Oklahoma City's only real function right now is to patiently wait (and hope) that Seattle doesn't get Bennett his new arena; that Seattle doesn't tie this thing up in the courts for too unreasonable a period of time; that the Muckelshoots don't come through with a proposal acceptable to Stern, et al.; etc.

Stern has the data as to how OKC will support a team. We're a proven commodity. Other than that, giving flowery percentages on message boards and "keeping a positive attitude" are worthless gestures -- just as worthless as letter writing campaigns.

I know it's great to feel useful and important, but really, it's all in the big boys' court now. All we can do is kick back and accept whatever happens.

Looks like they are lining up the big guns in Seattle

Gorton helped keep M's; now he'll work on Sonics

By Jim Brunner
Seattle Times staff reporter

Former U.S. Sen. Slade Gorton, who sued baseball to help Seattle land the Mariners and later brokered an ownership change to keep the team in town, has been enlisted in the fight to save the Sonics and Storm.

Seattle Mayor Greg Nickels tapped Gorton to add political and legal heft to the city's efforts to keep the Sonics at KeyArena through the end of the team's lease in 2010, said Deputy Mayor Tim Ceis.

It is too early to say whether Gorton will attempt to repeat his Mariners performance by brokering an arena deal or team sale. But Ceis said forcing the Sonics to remain at city-owned KeyArena for the next three years is a start.

"We start with ensuring we are prepared to hold the Sonics organization to the lease. From there I think a lot of opportunities emerge," Ceis said.

Gorton, now an attorney for K&L Gates, represented Washington in the U.S. Senate as a Republican for 18 years, before losing to Democrat Maria Cantwell in 2000. Since leaving office, Gorton has continued to do high-profile work, including a stint on the 9/11 Commission. Through an assistant, he declined to comment Wednesday.

Gorton has not formally been hired by the city but agreed to lend his expertise to the KeyArena fight during a lunch Tuesday with Nickels and City Attorney Tom Carr. The city may wind up hiring Gorton's firm, but no decision has been made, Ceis said.

In preparation for a possible legal battle over the Sonics' lease, Nickels next week will propose setting aside $1 million in the 2008 budget for legal fees related to KeyArena.

"We're lawyering up," Ceis said.

Sonics and Storm owner Clay Bennett has set an Oct. 31 deadline for a new arena deal. If he doesn't get it, Bennett has said his Oklahoma City-based ownership group will seek NBA permission to move the Sonics and Storm as early as next season.

A Bennett spokesman had no immediate comment late Wednesday.

Nickels has refused to discuss an early Sonics-lease buyout with Bennett. The City Council this week passed an ordinance formally opposing any such buyout. The Storm's KeyArena lease also runs through 2010 but allows the team to opt out after any season.

Gorton has played a key role in bringing the Mariners to Seattle — and in keeping them here.

As Washington state attorney general, Gorton sued the American League on behalf of local governments for breach of contract when the Seattle Pilots baseball team, after just one season, moved to Milwaukee to become the Brewers. Seattle received the Mariners expansion franchise in 1977 as compensation.

Gorton stepped in to keep the Mariners in town again in 1991 when team owner Jeff Smulyan reportedly wanted to escape his Kingdome lease and move the team to Florida.

Gorton used his influence as a senator to persuade Hiroshi Yamauchi, the founder of Nintendo of Japan, to purchase the Mariners in a partnership with several Seattle-area business executives.

Five years later, Gorton interceded again when the new owners of the Mariners threatened to sell the team over the Metropolitan King County Council's reluctance to swiftly approve terms of a lease needed to build Safeco Field.

Gorton brokered a deal that resulted in the Mariners signing a 20-year lease with the Public Facilities District and agreeing to pay for construction cost overruns on Safeco Field. The final lease gives the Mariners virtually all the revenue from the ballpark and weakened a provision that was supposed to share revenue with the public. Two members of the PFD board resigned over the Mariners hardball negotiating tactics on the lease.

During the Safeco Field fight, Gorton also browbeat Seattle officials, saying they would run the Mariners out of town if they didn't reach an agreement with the team on sharing costs of traffic control and cleanup around the ballpark.

Jim Brunner: 206-515-5628 or jbrunner@seattletimes.com

Bennett is in a no-lose situation here. He'll either get to sell the team at a decent profit or move it to OKC. If Gorton's history is an indicator, he'll join the chorus of the "put up or shut up" crowd.

ok, here is my take.

Basically, what we are seeing of late is called political grandstanding. The politicians really dont know what to do, they dont really know where the public stands with regard to the Sonics. but they dont want to be accused of doing nothing either, especially the Seattle city council (what we call CLOWNcil).

That silly ordinance does nothing but confirm the council's support of Nickel's not allowing a buyout. But notice, that the ordinance can be revoked or changed and that it is symbolic since the mayor can do what he wants and the courts surely can rule it illegal when it gets to that point.

Sure, there are people here who are disappointed at McLendon and what was said/happened or rather didn't happen and the fans have rampant speculation of what this or that means in their favor. But most people here (still above 70%) still dont care if the Sonics stay or go and will NOT fund an arena. That still stands.

That aside, the real question is, where does Bennett and Stern stand. I'd argue that, since we have not heard anything from Stern - that he's behind Bennett and OKC 100%. Of course, he wants to take a back end approach to this, since Seattle is a large market and nobody wants to make a mistake here since there might be a slim chance the Sonics do stay here (or stay longer than just this next year that is). Nobody wants a truly LAME duck market or a pissed off one at that, and while we may not have the best FANS up here - we do have some very loud mouthed and fat walleted people here who have somewhat taken offence to some of the latest events by McLendon and company.

The other question is, is any of this grandstanding gonna do anything? Here is my take. The Muckelshoot arena idea (which is the ONLY plan under consideration now that has ANY momentum) is a dead issue. If it were alive, then there would have been published more about it already in hopes to FORCE Bennett to consider it highly. It is now 1 1/2 months to go and still nothing concrete from them regarding this.

The next question is Gregoire. She obviously has lots of power and influence being governor and former Atty General up here - and she has publicly stated her desire for the Sonics to stay. However, the ONLY thing she can do at this point is try to gather private support - and she met with some heavy hitters lately. My take is, they only met ONCE and therefore this must be an indication of the private sector's reluctance to do anything here to get the job done. She doesn't have time to recall the legislature and she can NOT approve the funds herself. So basically, she (along with potentially Slade "The Blade" Gordon, a former WA Senator) are basically political influencers - but will the private sector come together with something?

That ist the final question. Can the private sector get something going in 47 days??? The clock ist ticking and the ONLY thing that is happening is Grandstanding by the politicians.

Sure, the ONLY thing the city can do is try to hold the Sonics to the lease. But as we know, the lease surely will be broken if Bennett choses to do so. So their action is mute (since their inaction until now speaks volumes).

Perhaps there are meetings going on behind closed doors but I'd say the likely hood of that happening here in Seattle is slim-to-none. The media would jump (and have been) ALL-OVER anything with regard to this since it sells papers.

Given the above, I'd say that OKC did take a hit with regard to the McLendon comments - but I would still say there is a 85% chance that the Sonics will move to OKC in 2008, and a 100% chance that they move period. There is no way there will be an arena deal so quickly, and especially given Bennett's demands for profitability - it aint gonna happen (and Im sure that is why Gregoire only had ONE meeting with the big hitters - and nothing else said).

Remember, Gregoire also met with the heavy hitters in the state legislature back in March/April, to determine how the congress felt about the Sonics plan. And remember, that was ONE meeting - and NOTHING happened. ...

I see some very similarities here, but there is a chance the political grandstanding might 'motivate' somebody to get something done - but I think we are running out-of-time as long as Bennett truly sticks to Oct 31 as the deadline; the Sonics Will Belong To Oklahoma City after this year.

Mark My Words.

I see some very similarities here, but there is a chance the political grandstanding might 'motivate' somebody to get something done - but I think we are running out-of-time as long as Bennett truly sticks to Oct 31 as the deadline; the Sonics Will Belong To Oklahoma City after this year.

Mark My Words.
"Mark your words"? ... like when you said a few months ago (http://www.okctalk.com/okc-metro-area-talk/7042-huge-news-clay-bennett-co-buy-supersonics-10.html#post93874), "...the new name of the Seattle SuperSonics will be Oklahoma City SONICS, 2007+."

Don't underestimate the power of politics... and never count your chickens before the eggs hatch.

HOT ROD, you know I support you but please note, it is McClendon not McLendon as you post on here and Seattle Times. I just want you to sound as knowledgeable as possible when you're defending OKC.

I have no idea who this guy is or if he has any credibilty but I find this hard to believe.


Sonics Make Deal With Muckleshoot Tribe to Build Arena in Auburn

Inside sources reveal that the Seattle SuperSonics and the Muckleshoot Indian Tribe have reached an agreement to build a new basketball arena in Auburn next to the existing Emerald Downs Race Track. This agreement will keep the Sonics in King County, though not in the City of Seattle.

The Muckleshoot Tribe owns the land the track sits on, but not the racing facility itself. The Tribe also owns adjacent property, which will house the new arena.

A news conference will be held at Emerald Downs at 10AM Monday, September 17, to announce the deal

This new development comes on the heels of the announcement by the City of Seattle that former Senator Slade Gorton will work to keep the Sonics and the Storm from breaking their lease at KeyArena prior to the expiration of the lease in 2010.

Seattle and Washington Politics (http://thehistoryguy.typepad.com/seattle_wa_politics/blog_index.html)

If that ends up being the case, then there's more pressure being brought to bear on Bennett than from the City Council and Slade Gorton. I would see David Stern's hand all over that, as I think an arena in Auburn is a risk. But I would not be completely shocked, as I've always worried that something would get done at the last minute, Stern really not wanting to move the Sonics. If that happens, the questions will be who in OKC really wants to own an NBA team. It would not shock me then, to see other Washington investors buy in and some of the OKC owners bow out. Bennett is the only one, to my knowledge, who really, really wants to own a basketball team.

It's interesting that none of this has been reported by The Seattle Times nor Seattle P-I, actual NEWS organizations that would presumbly be at a NEWS conference or at least know about it.

betts, what do you mean Bennett is the only one wanting an NBA team. If the others didn't want a team, they wouldn't have stepped up and formed the OKC Basketball Club and purchased the Sonics. All the owners have a vision for OKC and aren't just out to make money. I can almost guarantee you that Jeff Records and Aubrey McClendon will step up again if the Sonics stay and another team becomes available. They didn't buy the team to make money in Seattle. Their goal which you've heard directly from McClendon, was to bring the team to OKC hoping to break even. This venture is more of a gift to OKC kind of thing. Tell me you don't think having a permanent NBA team in OKC won't be a huge boost to help recruit employees to Chesapeake, MidFirst Bank, the Oklahoman, and the other companies represented. It would be a huge draw to lure young professionals to OKC to our top employers. The only reason you hear about Bennett is because of his past and existing relationship with Stern and the NBA.

All rumors. The press conference was supposed to be a questions and answer session with the consultants for the Indian tribe - and it has been canceled. The person that did the inital reporting has only had his blog up for 2 weeks. The indian tribe just completed their feasibilty study - no way they could have an arena plan completed. More smoke and mirros from Seattle. Just last week the City Council was hiring attorneys and bringing in former politicans. No way an arena deal has been reached.

You misunderstood me metro. I think Clay Bennett is the one owner who has wanted to own a basketball team forever, and should he not be able to get one for Oklahoma City, I think he might stay on as a Sonics owner indefinitely. The other owners, I believe, were brought into this deal with a promise that they would either make money in Seattle, or Oklahoma City would get an NBA team. I just think if the Sonics end up stuck in Seattle, they will quickly lose interest in owning a team there, and might sell their portions to Seattle residents. This is just speculation on my part. I think they all realize what an NBA team would bring to Oklahoma City, and that is why they bought the Sonics.....hoping to ultimately get an NBA team for this city. I've always wondered if there was a promise from Stern of another existing team or an expansion team for Oklahoma City if they were able to pull off an arena in Seattle, but that's just speculation on my part as well.

I can agree more with that betts. However, I do think that you're right about them selling, at least after 2010 if a deal is reached in Seattle. If not, I bet even Clay will sell because I strongly believe his interest is only owning a team in OKC or that has the potential to move to OKC. Now that he has seen OKC can support a team, I no longer think his hope is to just "own" another NBA team again for the sake of owning part of it.

I've always wondered if there was a promise from Stern of another existing team or an expansion team for Oklahoma City if they were able to pull off an arena in Seattle, but that's just speculation on my part as well.

Perfectly reasonable speculation and such a scenario is not unprecedented in major league sports. Oklahoma City has proven itself to be ready for the NBA from a fan base standpoint, has an adequate playing facility for the near term and what appear to be favorable political conditions for the approval and construction of a "big time" arena for the not-too-distant future. I think it's fairly clear that the NBA isn't going to give up on a market like Seattle with all due haste and if the Bennett ultimatum produces a long term fix for Seattle then the franchise isn't going anywhere. That said, another expansion of the NBA isn't exactly going to result in a dilution of the on-court product and the expansion fees that come along with the arrival of a new team are always welcomed by the other league owners, so it's quite reasonable to believe that the NBA would have no problem whatsoever awarding Bennett and NBA expansion franchise. A new arena would likely make the team a much more attractive asset for a local purchaser; Bennett's group would probably make a nice profit and then would sink that profit into the expansion team. In the end, Oklahoma City gets a team; Seattle keeps the Sonics; the NBA makes some quick cash and also establishes an exclusive presence in a nice sized market. Seems like a fairly reasonable proposition.

I worry about an expansion franchise for us. They normally struggle for several years before they are any good. Would we have decent crowds for 5 years of 22-60? Who knows..

I worry that David Stern doesn't want to consider expansion right now or in the forseeable future. But something must have been said to the people in Las Vegas about it, as they've always talked about expansion rather than the Kings, which is what I expected. Don't forget the Hornets, though. Things are not all that great in New Orleans. That's why I'm going to the preseason game with the Rockets here. It doesn't hurt to remind David Stern and George Shinn that we did a really good job supporting the Hornets.

As far as OKC not supporting an expansion team well, I don't have an answer. Charlotte did a great job of supporting the Hornets from the start, including giving them a standing ovation at the first game, when they lost by 20+ points. We would have to understand that the worse the team, the more they need the crowd. I think people would be really excited about having our very own franchise, without any dirty laundry from another city. Oklahoma City is about the size Charlotte was when they got the Hornets, so it's definitely doable.

I have been LMAO all day over this "arena deal" in Seattle. Reading some of the posts on the Settle Times forum literally had me laughing out loud at my desk. Like most of you I awoke this morning to see the headline" Sonics and Muckelshoots Agree to Arena Deal." It made it even sweeter when the people at SOS started saying it was true. How stupid are these people? Answer. Very!

Then we find out the big announcement is that the Muckelshoots are presenting their feasibility study. Talk about the wind coming out of the sails. Someone needs to watch the tall bridges in Seattle for jumpers after that let down.

So here is what we know thanks to Muckelshoots.

1. 26 acres is enough land to build an 18,500 seat arena. Of course we already knew this because Bennett proposed a 20,000 seat arena on 21 acres.

2. The areana will cost almost $500 million. Of course we already knew this because Bennett already proposed a $500 million arena.

3. The corporate market is tapped out for club seats and luxury suites in Seattle. Of course we already knew this because of new baseball and football stadiums, and now the NBA and Seattle residents know this.

4. Corporate leaders are reluctant to support a team not located in downtown. To bad the city just passed a law that prevents a new arena in Seattle.

5. You can drive to Auburn from most of Seattle. Oh wait, first the roads have to be improved in the area to support the traffic.

6. Construction can't start until 2009. Add 2 years of construction and we are talking 2011 before the Sonics are in their new arena. Those are some heavy losses for the next 5 years.

7. Tax payers are still going to have pay for the arena. Didn't Bennett already propose a tax payer funded arena? I could swear that he did.

This report should remove all doubt that anyone has that OKC will be hosting the Soncis in the very near future.

Kerry, so just to clarify since I haven't had time to read the latest updates. The new Muckleshoots proposal is suggesting taxpayer financed?? If so there is definitely a good chance the Sonics could come next year.

Kerry, so just to clarify since I haven't had time to read the latest updates. The new Muckleshoots proposal is suggesting taxpayer financed?? If so there is definitely a good chance the Sonics could come next year.

The Muckelshoots only studied the market for building an arena in Auburn. The tribe did offer to pay for a financial study if government, private investors, and team officals agreed to continue the process. Here is the quote from tribe spokesman.

Muckleshoot representatives cautioned this is only the first step in a possible new NBA arena. While the tribe would donate its land to an arena project, it is not yet clear how the arena construction would be funded.

Rollin Fatland, a Muckleshoot spokesman, said the tribe is willing to pay for development of a financing plan if there is interest from the Sonics and political leaders.

Fatland said it is likely taxpayers would be asked to contribute to the arena project.

Sonics | Study says Auburn site would work, but Sonics arena would cost $450M | Seattle Times Newspaper (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sonics/2003888885_webmuckleshoots17m.html)

This Times article today makes it seem the Shoot's proposal is dead on arrival

Next stop court I guess

AUBURN — The Muckleshoot Indian Tribe said Monday it is willing to donate land next to the Emerald Downs horse racing track in Auburn to build an arena for the Sonics and Storm.

But an 18,500-seat arena would cost more than $450 million to build, and there is no plan yet about how to pay for it, the tribe's consultants said Monday.

The Muckleshoots released a study from the arena-planning firm Brailsford & Dunlavey that said the Auburn site — about 25 miles south of Seattle — is close enough to the Sonics' fan base to work.

The tribe's next step, if there is significant interest in an Auburn arena, will be to figure out whether anyone wants to pay for it.

"This is a feasible site," said Jason Thompson, the consultant who conducted the study for the tribe. "That does not necessarily mean it is financially feasible."

It is likely a taxpayer contribution would be required for construction, said Rollin Fatland, a spokesman for the tribe. The study estimates the total cost of the arena would be $452 million, assuming construction started in 2009. Sonics owners this year failed to win legislative approval for taxes to help build a $500 million Renton arena.

The tribe sent its feasibility study to Sonics owner Clay Bennett and state political leaders Friday to gauge interest in trying to come up with a financing plan.

But such support was not immediately forthcoming.

Aides to Gov. Christine Gregoire were noncommittal, saying the governor will read the study.

"It's an unsolicited proposal," said Scott Merriman, legislative director for the state Office of Financial Management. "I think it is just part of the puzzle. We're all starting to see an increased level of interest in doing something."

Gregoire has tapped a trio of local business leaders — Microsoft Senior Vice President and General Counsel Brad Smith; Boeing executive Bob Watt, and developer Dave Sabey — to discuss arena possibilities. Fatland said it makes sense for that group to examine the Muckleshoots' arena idea.

Although Bennett was scheduled to be in Seattle on Monday, a spokesman said he'd have no comment. Bennett toured Emerald Downs earlier this month. Contending KeyArena is too small, Bennett has said he'll seek NBA approval to relocate the Sonics and Storm if he doesn't get an arena deal by Oct. 31.

Chris Van Dyk, the anti-stadium-subsidy activist, said the only difference between the Muckleshoot proposal and the Renton plan is "the distance south from Seattle," predicting the arena would require hundreds of millions in taxpayer money "unless the billionaire Sonics owners from Oklahoma decide to pay for it themselves."

One prominent Sonics supporter, Sen. Margarita Prentice, D-Renton, said she doubts the NBA wants an arena so close to the horse-racing track or nearby tribal casinos.

An association with gambling is "a major issue. That's a hurdle that I don't know how it can be surmounted," Prentice said.

Fatland pointed out the tribe's casino is not adjacent to the proposed arena site and said it is unlikely the Muckleshoots would own the Sonics arena.

A farmhouse and pasture currently occupy the 26-acre site across from Emerald Downs, immediately east of State Route 167.

The land was purchased by the tribe in 2005 for $3.2 million, according to King County property records. It contains wetlands and a creek, but could be developed with appropriate environmental mitigation, Fatland said.

The Brailsford & Dunlavey study compared the potential Auburn arena site with Seattle's KeyArena and found Auburn was within reasonable driving range for a slightly larger population.

South and East King County is becoming especially attractive for the NBA's target demographic — 20- to 34-year-olds, the study said.

An arena at the site would be 777,000 square feet — about twice the size of Seattle's KeyArena.

The Muckleshoots' consultants interviewed Seattle-area business leaders and found there was support for an Auburn arena if it was the only way to keep the Sonics and Storm in the region.

But the business leaders surveyed said they would rather see an arena in Seattle, Bellevue or Renton.

"There is no way to sugarcoat this," Thompson said. "Auburn was not the preferred site."

Jim Brunner: 206-515-5628 or jbrunner@seattletimes.com

Copyright © 2007 The Seattle Times Company

Bennett held a news conference in Seattle this morning to announce that he has filed for arbitration to get out of the the last two years of the Key arena lease.


Sonics | Bennett wants arbitrator to review KeyArena lease | Seattle Times Newspaper (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sonics/2003895555_websonics21.html)

Here we gooooo!

Glad to hear some "real" news on this issue. HOT ROD, what are the locals saying about this latest development. Both on the message boards and in real life (RL).

What? I just got major goosebumps!

Here's the same story but a little more detail posted on ESPN.com

SEATTLE -- The Seattle SuperSonics have asked for an arbitration panel to rule they do not have to play the final three years of their lease at KeyArena.

In the likely event the Sonics do not secure a new arena in the Seattle area by next month, a favorable finding for the team would help them in their efforts to relocate the franchise.

"As we approach the Oct. 31 deadline, we've seen nothing tangible," Sonics chairman Clay Bennett said Friday, referring to movement toward a new, $500 million building and the deadline he created after the team filed a demand for arbitration with the American Arbitration Association this week.

"It's not working at all today here," said Bennett, who has estimated his Oklahoma City-based ownership group lost $20 million running the team for the first time last season. "We have significant cash loss. Our sales are way off ... just compared to what is happening with the Mariners and the Seahawks.

"The business model today, where we are, cannot continue."

Bennett, whose group bought the Sonics and WNBA's Storm for $350 million in 2006, said he hopes to have a decision from a three-member arbitration panel by January. That would then give Seattle's NBA team since 1967 time to file for relocation with the NBA for the 2008-09 season. Teams must file for relocation with the league by March 1 for the following season.

The Sonics are likely headed to Oklahoma City if they don't get a new arena agreement in the next six weeks.

"I absolutely know the team can survive and be profitable in Oklahoma City," Bennett said. "The Ford Center [there] is quite adequate -- but another building would be needed in the future.

"I can tell you there is high interest in bringing the NBA to Oklahoma City."

Seattle Deputy Mayor Tim Ceis has said the city will continue to enforce the lease at KeyArena, which runs through 2010. NBA commissioner David Stern has called the lease the league's worst.

Ceis acknowledged both sides could agree to amend their agreement and permit a buyout.

The Sonics say the cost of such a buyout is contained in the lease, though they haven't determined an exact price tag yet pending the arbitrators' ruling. The figure would presumably cover revenue lost to the city should the Sonics leave before 2010.

Bennett said his Oklahoma City-based ownership will keep the Storm in Seattle for one more season, through next summer, but that his preference is to keep the two teams together beyond that.

He also said he intends to remain "engaged" with the Muckleshoot Indian Tribe, which funded a just-completed feasibility study that said an arena could prosper on tribe-owned land in Auburn, 25 miles south of Seattle. But Bennett again said Friday that he was concerned about the site's relative remoteness and the traffic issues surrounding it.

Bennett also said he has been approached by potential investors with other proposals -- some of which he wasn't sure were earnest and valid. He said neither the Sonics or the Storm is for sale, though he acknowledged he's fielded some inquiries from Seattle-area business people about potentially buying the teams.

Whats this "real life" thing you speak of?