Care to enlighten us as to which airports have eight gates empty? Give us some facts, don't just put something out there and expect us to read your mind.

I second that motion.

You know, just off the top of my head, there are no airports that have added gates and are "waiting" for airlines to come. Other than Mid America Airport, but we all know why that failed. As for airports that have plenty of gates empty-COS, STL, PIT, MCI-they have empty gates because airlines either cut back service quite a bit or just took out their hubs there.

In fact, most airports doing well today have only two-three gates empty. The airports that have recently added gates or are in the process of adding more gates/concourses/terminals were already doing it before the attacks-IND, DFW, IAH, PHX; and now that passenger traffic levels have rebounded, they need the expanded capacity anyway. And keep in mind these are all airports that have major focus ops or hubs. Just proves my point that if the passenger traffic is there, then only will it get built.

Just proves my point that if the passenger traffic is there, then only will it get built.

Reason why we need to continue the path the Airport Trust is taking: seeking more non-stp flights, not a hub.

I agree, conservative. The real end goal here is access to and from OKC. We have plenty of gates to accommodate our current traffic plus many added to flights to new markets. No one is going to fly passenger jets in and out of Oklahoma City just because we have some extra gates. As far as I can tell, there is absolutely no competition for gates. Like Venture keeps saying, it depends on O/D. Let the trust rake up some interest while we build our traffic rather than putting it into an unneeded facility that is twice as big and costs twice as much to operate while increasing returns by a factor of zero. The good news is that when we need an expanded facility, we will have the resources. Once there is competition, we will be in a good position to act.

However, if there is currently competition and a need for longer runways and maintenance facilities, let's put the money there.

I was looking to fly to LAX on this non-stop in a few weeks and did some checking online. I found the flights on the dates I was checking to be quite full. Venture, is my assessment correct that this flight is doing well? Might we see a second flight added soon? What about UA service to IAD and SFO? You stated earlier in this thread you though a flight to IAD would be announced before the end of 2006 (and a US flight to CLT, too). Do you think those will still happen?

I hope so.

Like I said, if we had access to every airline's hub airport plus a few focus cities, we'd have access to every major city.

NONSTOPS from WRWA
AIRLINE: CURRENT HUB/FOCUS SERVICE. NEEDED HUB SERVICE. DESIRED FOCUS

United: Chicago, Denver, Los Angeles. Needed IAD and SFO, mainliners to ORD and LAX. Desired SEA
American: Chicago, Dallas. Desired JFK and MIA
Delta: Atlanta, Cincinatti, Dallas, Salt Lake. Desired PDX, more mainliners.
Northwest: Detroit, Memphis, Minneapolis. Desired SEA, more mainliners.
Continental: Houston, Newark. Not really sure about their route structure.
Southwest: Dallas, Kansas City, Phoenix, Saint Louis. Needed MDW, BWI. Desired MSY, SAT.
US Airways: Las Vegas, Phoenix. Needed Charlotte. Desired Philly and/or Pitt, BWI; mainliners
Frontier: Denver. Desired mainliners.

Did I forget any?

Airlines desired.

Air Canada: Toronto, Vancouver
Air Tran: Atlanta, Chicago-Midway
Alaska Airline: Los Angeles, Seattle
Jet Blue: JFK, IAD. Perhaps LAX
Mexicana or Aeromex: MEX

Nonstop service to regional cities, feeder routes: Tulsa, Wichita, Little Rock, Albuquerque, San Antonio/Austin, Omaha?

How about we post this wish list - along with finishing the airport terminal - to the airport director; as well as keeping the web site and media information/response rate up-to-date??.. I'd even settle for one flight a week, whatever it took to get a flight so we have "something!!!"

I booked tickets 3 months out for this March on the Continental direct flight to Newark. It was already 3/4ths full at that time.

^There was a article recently in the OKC Business Journal that pretty much confirms what you guys are looking at while booking flights. WN representatives from Dallas HQ were here for some meeting with city officials, and they said that OKC's trend is much the opposite of what's expected, pax traffic is going up while the airlines here are either cutting back flights or reducing seat capacity by using smaller jets. Thus you have fuller flights, which is what the airlines want. Now this is not to say that we should go "hoo-hah!!" and get the East Concourse all of a sudden, but the situation is being monitored, and Mark Kranenburg has already hinted at possibly building it earlier than originally expected. Still, with three empty gates in the west concourse after DL/DL Conn move in to their new gates in the central terminal airside, don't expect a new concourse anytime soon. We still have plenty gate capacity left.

Care to enlighten us as to which airports have eight gates empty? Give us some facts, don't just put something out there and expect us to read your mind.

Not saying OKC should or should not build the East Concourse but San Francisco, LAX, Jacksonville, and Tampa have more than 8 empty gates. I guess the real questions is - how many available gates are there during peak travel times of the day. Not sure who has leased the gates in OKC but United is famous for leasing extra gates just to keep compeitiors out. There was an artical last year in WSJ that said United was letting about 20 gates in LAX sit empty just so other airline couldn't use them. Same thing in SFO.

TPA and SFO are undergoing periods of expansion and constrcution where old concourses or airsides have been replaced or are due for an update, thus leading to empty gates. As for Jacksonville International, I dunno what source you looked at, but it's undergoing a major reconstruction and expansion project right now, much like ours where two concourses are going to be gutted and new ones will be built as replacements. The airport really needs the expansion now as it serves more than 5.7 million pax a year, and pretty much all gates are being used. And LAX having empty gates isn't true. That airport is in major short supply of gates, try none available. Each gate in all eight terminals and the TBIT are all used, heck, it even had to use empty spaces on the airfield's west side to set up remote stands and satellite terminals to handle the large volume of widebodies. Eagle finally pulled out all ops from Terminal 4 and set up its own satellite west of TBIT. The WSJ needs to get the facts right. UA only uses T7 and T8, and I believe any overflow goes to the few gates it shares with DL, CO and other airlines in T6.

I was just answering the question. However, I think you are proving Mr Andersons point by saying that SFO and JAX are undergiong expansions and that is why they have open gates. Termial B at Jax is rarely used. Just like in LAX - United has leased the gates but planes never pull up to them. In most of terminal B in Jax the gates have a United logo but no seats for passengers. Two years ago Tampa completed renovation of terminal E even though it only handled a few Air Canda and AirTan flights. Tampa is now renovating terminal C. The point is Tampa and Jax can handle all of their current traffic but are expanding anyhow. There must be a reason.

When the WRWA expansion started in 2000 they said it would meet the needs through 2012. The expansion was to be completed in 2006. That meant 6 years of construction for 6 years of benefit. Then the airport would be over crowded again. It took 3 years for traffic to return to normal after the terrorist attacks in 2001. If the original expansion had taken place then it would be over crowded in 2015. Since they cut short the expansion, it will now be over crowded somewhere around 2010. Unless WRWA is way off on their passenger growth projections.

Just type 'Empty airport gates' in google and see how many new stories their are about airports with unused gates.

I was just answering the question. However, I think you are proving Mr Andersons point by saying that SFO and JAX are undergiong expansions and that is why they have open gates. Termial B at Jax is rarely used. Just like in LAX - United has leased the gates but planes never pull up to them. In most of terminal B in Jax the gates have a United logo but no seats for passengers. Two years ago Tampa completed renovation of terminal E even though it only handled a few Air Canda and AirTan flights. Tampa is now renovating terminal C. The point is Tampa and Jax can handle all of their current traffic but are expanding anyhow. There must be a reason.

When the WRWA expansion started in 2000 they said it would meet the needs through 2012. The expansion was to be completed in 2006. That meant 6 years of construction for 6 years of benefit. Then the airport would be over crowded again. It took 3 years for traffic to return to normal after the terrorist attacks in 2001. If the original expansion had taken place then it would be over crowded in 2015. Since they cut short the expansion, it will now be over crowded somewhere around 2010. Unless WRWA is way off on their passenger growth projections.

Well, Mr. Anderson's point was airports build gates and make them sit empty in anticipation of airlines coming and filling them up. That's not what they do, and again, that's not what I said. I said SFO and TPA have empty gates solely because they've shut down existing conourses or airsides for remodeling, thus you'll find empty gates at those airports, it's not like they're building new gates just to get airlines to add service. Just doesn't work that way. As for JAX, Concourse B has five airlines-Jetblue, United Express and United, US Airways and Air Tran. Yes, some gates are empty but definitely no more than three or four.

United has a big operation at LAX and it legitimately uses all gates in T7 and T8, and shares T6 with DL and CO. That's it, all other terminals at LAX are for other airlines, and no, UAL doesn't just lease gates to block other airlines. As I said, the airport is hard pressed for gates so UAL couldn't do that even if it wanted to, and it doesnt have the money to idle gates like that. The airline just came out of bankruptcy, I dont think it can afford to do that.

And OKC is very well prepared to handle upcoming traffic. OKC's pax traffic cae back upto pre 9/11 levels in four years (2005, not 2004). When the 25 gate plan was announced back in 2001, OKC's pax traffic was right around 3.5 million, and was projected to double to around 7 million by 2012. Since it's taken four years to get back to where it was, the 7 million mark won't be reached until at least 2018 or so if the pax traffic growth rate stays where it is right now. Besides, we have three empty gates as is like I said, and the east concourse may be built sooner rather than later.

I hope so.

Like I said, if we had access to every airline's hub airport plus a few focus cities, we'd have access to every major city.

NONSTOPS from WRWA
AIRLINE: CURRENT HUB/FOCUS SERVICE. NEEDED HUB SERVICE. DESIRED FOCUS

United: Chicago, Denver, Los Angeles. Needed IAD and SFO, mainliners to ORD and LAX. Desired SEA
American: Chicago, Dallas. Desired JFK and MIA
Delta: Atlanta, Cincinatti, Dallas, Salt Lake. Desired PDX, more mainliners.
Northwest: Detroit, Memphis, Minneapolis. Desired SEA, more mainliners.
Continental: Houston, Newark. Not really sure about their route structure.
Southwest: Dallas, Kansas City, Phoenix, Saint Louis. Needed MDW, BWI. Desired MSY, SAT.
US Airways: Las Vegas, Phoenix. Needed Charlotte. Desired Philly and/or Pitt, BWI; mainliners
Frontier: Denver. Desired mainliners.

Did I forget any?

Airlines desired.

Air Canada: Toronto, Vancouver
Air Tran: Atlanta, Chicago-Midway
Alaska Airline: Los Angeles, Seattle
Jet Blue: JFK, IAD. Perhaps LAX
Mexicana or Aeromex: MEX

Nonstop service to regional cities, feeder routes: Tulsa, Wichita, Little Rock, Albuquerque, San Antonio/Austin, Omaha?

How about we post this wish list - along with finishing the airport terminal - to the airport director; as well as keeping the web site and media information/response rate up-to-date??.. I'd even settle for one flight a week, whatever it took to get a flight so we have "something!!!"

Corrections:

I don't believe Delta has any flights from OKC to DFW (and I think it's a stretch to call Delta's operation in DFW a hub or focus operation anyway).

Southwest also flies from OKC to Houston.

FYI, Continental's other hub is in Cleveland.

Corrections:

I don't believe Delta has any flights from OKC to DFW (and I think it's a stretch to call Delta's operation in DFW a hub or focus operation anyway).

Southwest also flies from OKC to Houston.

FYI, Continental's other hub is in Cleveland.

Calling Delta in DFW a hub is more than a "stretch." That hub closed last year. In fact, Will Rogers may serve more Delta flights than DFW now. I do not know, however, it is possible.