One other thing. The donut comment was a joke. Most cops do not do donuts anymore. Too fattening. Plus Geralds has only one location.

What an interesting thread, and a very long one. It may take me three days to go through all of these posts.LOL . .

. . . I have also noticed that a few posters have admitted that they love to give other drivers "the bird." I noticed one poster even thinks it is rather humurous to do so, but it is one of the most dangerous, stupid, things you could ever do. More road rage happens when hand gestures are made to other motorists.

Then, the one that makes the hand gestures, which started the whole problem, wants me to cite the other driver. I don't cite drivers because of other drivers' stupidity. . .

. . . Have a safe evening. I hope to come back to this forum more often.

Perhaps when you return, you will reread some of the posts I made on this thread and perhaps with a slightly less serious eye and a more open mind. If you don't get the joke or see the humour, that works for me too.

Thanks for the difficult job you do Adam, and BTW, I have never given the finger to a single police officer.

I get along great with the cops, mainly because I try not to give them any extra work. :)

It's so nice to have professional law enforcement contributors to this thread to share the facts about speeding, law enforcement and first-hand professional experience. It obviously made a difference in this thread. Thanks again 1Adam12 and okcpd for being the voices of reason and keeping us safe!

Okay, quailcreekgal, we get it. You don't like speeders. You love cops. We've all agreed that speeding is illegal. We all know the penalty. Let's all move on to another thread.

Move on if you want to, bandnerd, it's a free country and web site.

I just don't see any point in harping on this anymore. Nothing new has been said in awhile, so why keep beating the dead horse here? I've also noticed that you haven't really posted on any other threads. Are they not worth your time? Or do you only care about people who drive over the speed limit?

Edit:
I take back what I said. I see you just posted on the Qdoba thread...although you still brought traffic into it. My bad.

Actually I care about people who drive under the speed limit and people who ride public transportation and people who ride bikes and people who walk and dogs and cats and the list goes on and on. What else do you want to know?
Again, it's a free country and web site, I'll post when I want as often as I want, about what I want. If you want to spend your time monitoring my posts, go right ahead.

Not monitoring, dear, just a simple observation.

Say no more, honeylamb....... simple is very good description.

It's so nice to have professional law enforcement contributors to this thread to share the facts about speeding, law enforcement and first-hand professional experience. It obviously made a difference in this thread. Thanks again 1Adam12 and okcpd for being the voices of reason and keeping us safe!

Bandnerd, she's beating a dead horse because she has nothing else of value to contribute. In short, she has become your standard-issue forum troll (if she was anything else).

However I do agree with her that its great that our newly-acquired (and re-acquired) law enforcement members pointed out that going 5MPH over the speed limit in order to pass someone and get out of the way of faster motorists does not:
- Make you a evil person
- A hazard on the roadway
- Or contribute to the general downfall of society as we know it.

Before you post it QCG, let me save you the trouble:

"YOUR SO WRONG! ITS ILLEGAL!!!!!!!!!!!!111" :rolleyes:

Again, it's a free country and web site, I'll post when I want as often as I want, about what I want. If you want to spend your time monitoring my posts, go right ahead.

Okay, I'll monitor your posts. It's my job here.

Actually I care about people who drive under the speed limit and people who ride public transportation and people who ride bikes and people who walk and dogs and cats and the list goes on and on. What else do you want to know?
Again, it's a free country and web site, I'll post when I want as often as I want, about what I want. If you want to spend your time monitoring my posts, go right ahead.

I like rainbows, and I like long walks on the beach. I love it when people give me gifts "just because." I like sunshine and teddy bears and gum drops and rose petals.

-- and people who walk their cats are supercool.

I wrote "100% WRONG" in response a post that read "100% RIGHT". I never wrote "YOUR SO WRONG!" Those are your words not mine.
I have never called anyone an "evil person." Those are your words not mine.
I asked a law enforcement officer to share his experience and first hand knowledge, you characterize me as having nothing else of value to contribute.
You call me names. "Standard issue troll" being the most recent and I have never called you any names.
You keep posting to the same thread over and over and say I'm beating a dead horse.

QCG, it seems your feelings are hurt.

And yes...

http://www.bjacked.net/LuvToHunt/forums/phpBB2/modules/gallery/albums/album01/Beat_Dead_Horse.jpg

These slow drivers in the passing lane probably think it's okay to drive by themselves in the HOV lane, just because.

I wrote "100% WRONG" in response a post that read "100% RIGHT". I never wrote "YOUR SO WRONG!" Those are your words not mine.
I have never called anyone an "evil person." Those are your words not mine.
I asked a law enforcement officer to share his experience and first hand knowledge, you characterize me as having nothing else of value to contribute.
You call me names. "Standard issue troll" being the most recent and I have never called you any names.
You keep posting to the same thread over and over and say I'm beating a dead horse.
*Sigh*
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v291/Mad_Monk/deadhorse1vj.gif

I wrote "standard-issue forum troll", not "Standard issue troll", so I'll assume you are paraphrasing (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=paraphrase), like I did with your statement above. Also, I never said that you called anyone an evil person, that's your assumption and misunderstanding.

Now, with that said, I'm done if you are.

I got another question on the other side of the dilemma. This morning while driving downtown to work, The car in front of me was driving about 40mph in the fast lane. Cars were piling up behind me while no one was in front of the slow driver. The driver stayed in that lane after numerous cars were finally able to get around him. Needless to say, the slower driver was not only endangering himself, but many other drivers because now several other drivers were switching 3 other lanes to try and work their way through so they can maintain their desired speed.

I agree metro, that driver should have been ticketed. That driver was also far more dangerous in my opinion than someone going 5-10 MPH faster than the posted speed limit.

Yeah, but no one has issued a ticket for driving slow and impeding traffic ... go figure.

I guess that was the whole point of this entire thread! Don't drive in such a way to endanger yourself or another.. either by going too slow or too fast.

I'm not for speeding like a maniac. I'm also not for someone who thinks they own the road driving in the fast lane maintaining the 'speed limit' so they can feel holier than thou... those people just infuriate me and nothing causes more road rage from people who are being held up by such a person. I've seen it happen where drivers will cut off the impeding auto so closely that I thought for sure they would crash into each other.. not the result the 'slow' driver was hoping for, I'll bet.

Anyway, I agree, this has been enlightening but very, very long! I think we have all made our points on an apparently touchy subject.

I'll never stop :kicking:

What? No posts today in this important thread? It must NOT be allowd to die!:omg:

Bump!

I'll never stop :kicking:

I'll be on the lookout for you on the streets of Quail Creek.

LOL! That reminds me of a story my crazy cousin told.. she was pulled over in a ratty work van in Edmond on her way home from faux painting a custom home here ... the officer asked her " have you had anything to drink" and she playfully said " I must be drunk to think I can drive through Edmond without getting pulled over!" ( she really wasn't drinking - just has a strange sense of humor) thankfully, the officer appreciated her humor and just gave her a warning....

Next time I get pulled over, I'll whip out my OKC Talk card - wonder if it will help?

Why is it that most accidents occur during rush-hour when traffic is moving the slowest?

Why is it that most accidents occur during rush-hour when traffic is moving the slowest?

Excellent point Kerry.

I'll be on the lookout for you on the streets of Quail Creek.
I'm easy to see - I'm usually driving down 122nd or Hefner about 10 miles over the speed limit in my Chevrolet Suburban, cell phone in one hand and Big Gulp in the other.:wink::wink:

i would not recommend even driving the speed limit in the SLOW LANE on that stretch of road

I'm easy to see - I'm usually driving down 122nd or Hefner about 10 miles over the speed limit in my Chevrolet Suburban, cell phone in one hand and Big Gulp in the other.:wink::wink:

So you're the one that was going 55 in the left lane of the Hefner Parkway this afternoon.

Bad driving is a national epidemic. It is the ultimate illustration of human stupidity, and as long as we allow ourselves to believe we are invincible out on the roadway, thousands will continue to perish all because of human error.

Many people forget what was taught during drivers education. Most never pay attention, pushing their way thorugh the course just so they can land a drivers license in their pocket. Driving is, believe it or not, a skill that requires a degree of profession. Driving skills requires your undivided attention of mathematical skills and fourth dimensional thinking. Each distraction will automatically subtract the amount of predictions you can make while behind the wheel.

Our personal habits are the reason we shouldn't drive. Some chit-chat and take their eyes off the road to confirm the passenger's attention. Some drop food on the floor, and will immediately start digging for the spill so that the interior doesn't soil. Some of us drive fast just so that we can look good and make others think we've been on the NASCAR track. Others believe they can drive until the ripe old age of 95, and that if we drive below the speed limit, we're practicing caution.

I am not at all a perfect driver. But I do contribute as much of my thoughts as possible to a practice I like to call simulated scenario driving.

Under simulated scenario driving, I use assumptions based on possible human error on any given type of roadway. For instance, let's assume I am driving on a stretch of eight-lane freeway. While on the freeway, I take into account every vehicle driving within 100 yards of my vehicle. Let's say that an 18-wheeler is 60 yards in front of me. Two four-door vehicles are to my left and right. Behind me is an SUV and a truck. At that point, I will assume that there is a possibility that the 18-wheeler will have a blowout- the most common wear-and-tear on such a vehicle. Assuming something happens to the 18-wheeler, I will have already positioned myself for a safe point of exit by making sure I am clear to change lanes should the 18-wheeler overturn our jack-knife. I also take a quick glance at the people driving in vehicles closest to me. I then add in different variables about these drivers... are they paying attention? Do they look nervous? Angry? Relaxed? Do they change lanes erratically?
I also check for any speeders nearby. If a vehicle zips past me doing 90 MPH, I keep that driver in check and assume that an accident ahead is possible.

In construction zones, I make sure I am out of a wolf-pack of 18-wheelers. Passenger vehicles cutting off these freight trucks are the number one cause of truck-related accidents, so I gradually and without interruption fall behind a group of 18-wheelers or at least increase my distance to increase reaction time in the event of an accident.

I also pay attention to road-side points of interest, particularly shopping malls and rows of restaurants where drivers are more likely to cut across lanes of traffic or change lanes erratically to arrive at their desired location. I just simply pay extra attention to what other drivers around me might do.

Men and women both play equal but different roles in bad driving. Men are more likely to express road rage OR what I like to call stunt driving, where they basically tear ass all over the road to take advantage of horse power. Women are more distracted, especially by children because of mother's instinct, so a predicament between children will always take precedence over what's happening on the road. Both men and women turn around to punish their children while behind the wheel, and that is a recipe for a lethal disaster.

Bad road design does play a role, but if you are familiar with a dangerous turn or intersection, always assume someone will be around the corner, and be prepared for your safe point of exit. For instance, if you come over a sharp hill that reduces visibility or around a sharp blind curve on a road with no shoulders, drop your speed to increase reaction time. At a dangerous intersection, if it's safer to make a right hand turn, and then turn around a few blocks down to get yourself pointed in the direction you want to go, do so. For dangerous intersections, the best solution is to find a safer way to your destination. If it is your first time at that dangerous intersection and your instinct is telling you its dangerous, always listen to your instinct and practice caution. Do not get gutsy.

Also, remember these simple rules when practicing simulated scenario driving. If you are leaving late, get there late. Do not try to reduce your tardiness by putting yourself and others at danger. If you to not want to be late, do a little math. Leave yourself a good cushion of time to get there on time.

When the weather is bad, be sure you know how your car handles. Develop a set of driving habits to address the condition of your car plus the weather conditions.

If you find you love to play with your car toys more than your needed attention on the road, they have no business in your car. Every distraction you install in your car is an increase in the chance of a possible accident.

And finally, there are bad drivers all over the country. Bad driving is not confined to any one geographical area. Sure, the bad driving habits do vary depending on the size of city and amount of traffic. Of the dozens of vehicles traveling by your size, keep in mind these are people you've never met before, and they are feet from you. Don't treat them like obstacles but watch what they are doing, and what you are doing. On that note, remember that the type of vehicle you are driving DOES effect others' reactions. So if you are tearing up the highway in your SUV, you are more likely to intimidate drivers in smaller vehicles. Those of you who drive compact cars, remember that even though you probably were never interested in physics, it is all over the highway. So when you cut in front of a truck and slam on your breaks, the weight of your car will require a shorter distance to decrease speed. The weight of a truck requires four to five times the amount of distance, so keep that in mind.

So you're the one that was going 55 in the left lane of the Hefner Parkway this afternoon.
Ohhhh, I'm so sorry, Patrick, but I wasn't on the Lake Hefner Parkway yesterday. In fact I rarely drive the Parkway - too many reckless speeders for me! There are much safer ways to get around the city.

Ohhhh, I'm so sorry, Patrick, but I wasn't on the Lake Hefner Parkway yesterday. In fact I rarely drive the Parkway - too many reckless speeders for me! There are much safer ways to get around the city.

Oh, so you're the one burning up gas inefficiently in your big SUV going up and down May Ave. Nice! Thanks for helping reduce gas prices.

Great post, okcpulse!

It amazes me all the things people do in their cars besides drive and how frequently people fail to plan ahead. If you know your exit is coming up in a mile, change lanes and get ready to exit. If you can't hold a conversation with your passenger without looking at them, either stop talking or pull over.

People forget driving is a privilege, not a right.

Oh, so you're the one burning up gas inefficiently in your big SUV going up and down May Ave. Nice! Thanks for helping reduce gas prices.
You are very welcome - buy some Conoco Phillips stock and beef up your retirement investments!

Oh, so you're the one burning up gas inefficiently in your big SUV going up and down May Ave. Nice! Thanks for helping reduce gas prices.

If she can afford the gas prices and the SUV, she has the right to use them.

If she can afford the gas prices and the SUV, she has the right to use them.

Absolutely.

You are very welcome - buy some Conoco Phillips stock and beef up your retirement investments!

With the up and down price fluctuations of energy stocks over the next 20-30 years, I'm not sure that would be a wise investment. International stocks seem to be a better bet right now.

Ohhhh, I'm so sorry, Patrick, but I wasn't on the Lake Hefner Parkway yesterday. In fact I rarely drive the Parkway - too many reckless speeders for me! There are much safer ways to get around the city.

There are more accidents on city streets than on city highways.

There are more accidents on city streets than on city highways.

That is actually very true.

quailcreekgal should like this:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/20060517/ts_usatoday/texascouldaccelerateto80mph

Hope this happens in other states.

Sounds to me like this quailcreekgal is creating a safety hazard by trying to slow traffic.

Under simulated scenario driving, I use assumptions based on possible human error on any given type of roadway. For instance, let's assume I am driving on a stretch of eight-lane freeway. While on the freeway, I take into account every vehicle driving within 100 yards of my vehicle. Let's say that an 18-wheeler is 60 yards in front of me. Two four-door vehicles are to my left and right. Behind me is an SUV and a truck. At that point, I will assume that there is a possibility that the 18-wheeler will have a blowout- the most common wear-and-tear on such a vehicle. Assuming something happens to the 18-wheeler, I will have already positioned myself for a safe point of exit by making sure I am clear to change lanes should the 18-wheeler overturn our jack-knife. I also take a quick glance at the people driving in vehicles closest to me. I then add in different variables about these drivers... are they paying attention? Do they look nervous? Angry? Relaxed? Do they change lanes erratically?
I also check for any speeders nearby. If a vehicle zips past me doing 90 MPH, I keep that driver in check and assume that an accident ahead is possible.

Lordy Chris! How do you expect me to that while driving?? I'm trying to put on my mascara for goodness sakes!




LOL - of course, I'm kidding but I have seen women driving putting on mascara..

You are absolutely right, Patrick. But I'm not even going to rehash the safety issues raised in the article because you don't care about that, so I'll just summarize the article.

The TX speed limit increase is only being implemented and considered in rural counties not Dallas, Ft. Worth, San Antonio or Houston. I seriously doubt the speed limit on the Lake Hefner Parkway and Broadway Extension.

And Patrick, because you recently expressed concerns about rising gas prices don't overlook this tidbit of info in the article:
"The Department of Energy says that gas mileage drops sharply at speeds over 60 mph, and that drivers can assume that each 5 mph over 60 is like paying an additional 20 cents per gallon of gas."

hmmmmmm......driving 80 mph is only going to cost you another 80 cents per gallon of gas.

If you can afford to pay that much for gas, I'm very happy for you.:tiphat:

Rambo - Sounds like you make assumptions or you would know I have never said I drive below the speed limit, I just don't advocate driving 20 mph over it.

If people who are going 80mph have the money to pay the high gas prices, I think they have the right to use the resources.

Below, I have copied an e-mail I received from Tom Elmore. As most of you know, Tom is an outspoken opponent of the I-40 D Option which destroys nearly all of the rail infrastructure that could make OKC the rail crossroads of America as well as the highway crossroads, but that's another story. I think this info fits as well here as anywhere on the forum without starting another thread and this one seems to be headed for some sort of record given enough time.

Tom is also very knowledgable about highway construction, maintainence of roads, fuel taxes etc. The information below is comprehensive and lengthy, because that's how Tom is, but it is well worth the time required to read it. IMO, this guy is so right on target.

Tom's contact information is at the bottom of the post if you would like to receive other rail and highway related information from time to time.

Enjoy.

"We've been hearing radio ads on OKC commercial stations pushing taxpayers to call their state senators to support using "15% of state vehicle tag and registration fees for road repairs." This is the way to "repair roads without
raising taxes," they say. The organization behind the ads calls itself "T.R.U.S.T," an acronym translated "Transportation Revenues Used Strictly for Transportation."

It's an odd name for an outfit whose whole pitch is a deliberate deception from the "git go." Who is it? Tom Love and the usual gang of road builders, truckers, etc. They've tried this or other similar schemes under different names at different times nearly every year this decade.

Why do I say you can't "trust" TRUST? Because tag and registration fees are not transportation revenues. Those fees are levied on motor vehicles in lieu of property taxation. The statutory and obvious revenue stream for road repair,
on the other hand, is fuel taxation. There's an obvious tie between the amount of fuel a given vehicle burns and how much it uses public roads. There is no such tie -- no proportionality -- on tag and registration fees.

Unfortunately, apparently by mutual agreement of ODOT and elected officials, the fuel tax baseline has been deliberately sabotaged. Heavy commercial trucks, the chief source of road damage, return far less than their share for road repairs, paying 3 cents per gallon less state fuel tax than autos pay. Worse yet, one penny of state diesel tax brings in only about one-third the revenue
generated by one penny of gasoline tax. Trucking would have to pay more than three times what it now pays in fuel taxation just to break even with what the driving public already pays -- and each truck is massively more damaging to roads.

We're left to presume that Tom Love, chief of Love's Country Stores, one of the biggest sellers of diesel fuel in this part of the nation, resists equitable increases in state diesel taxation because artificially low tax helps him sell more fuel.

The trucking industry's "love" of that strategy is also obvious -- and highway construction companies are similarly kept "in the chips" by more truck traffic on more roads.

NATI's research indicates that trucking pays only 22% of annual state fuel tax revenues, but that number looks pretty good compared to the roughly 8.5% of tag and registration fees it pays. Breaching the tag and registration revenue stream for road repairs means the driving public would pay a far larger share
to repair damage overwhelmingly inflicted by big trucks. This would plainly free trucking from a much larger portion of its cost responsibility enabling that industry to use more of the money it should have had to repay taxpayers for road use (1), lobbying elected officials and (2), buying more trucks to
artificially dominate ever-larger portions of the surface transport industry.

More trucks mean worse roads. Heavy trucks are so damaging to our roads and bridges that there is simply no way the taxpayers could now ever hope to get ahead of the problem. The only way to solve it is to make the damagers pay a fair return. This, and only this, attacks the problem from "both ends," first by boosting immediate repair revenues and second by limiting new truck traffic.

How bad is the situation? A standard semi operating at its max legal gross weight inflicts pavement damage equivalent to 9,600 automobiles according to AASHTO (American Association of State Highway and Transportation Officials). Many state studies show that figure to be "conservative." Oklahoma truck traffic
grew from 5.6 billion annual miles in 1996 to 13.4 billion in 1999, an average annual increase of 45%. That may be "good" in the short term for fuel sellers, truck lines and road contractors, but it's nothing but bad for taxpayers and
the competitive environment in surface transport.

Call your state senator -- and tell him or her your view of proposals to use tag and registration fee revenues for road repair. Tell your senators what you think of House Bill 2940, which is the measure in question. Ask them why fuel taxation rates are not reformed requiring a fair return from all road users."

TOM ELMORE
North American Transportation Institute
PO Box 6617
OKC, OK 73153-0617
Tel: 405 794 7163
Fax: 405 799 2641
gtelmore@advancedtransport.org
www.advancedtransport.org

Thanks for the update, OTG. I have nothing but respect for Tom.

Looks like OKC's driver's arent' as bad as some of us think. We rank #35 in the nation. (the higher the number the better the drivers, the lower the number the worse the drivers). Portland, OR is the worst.

http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/Insurance/Insureyourcar/P151501.asp?GT1=8288

Looks like OKC's driver's arent' as bad as some of us think. We rank #35 in the nation. (the higher the number the better the drivers, the lower the number the worse the drivers). Portland, OR is the worst.That sounds about right to me. People in Oklahoma are much better drivers than any place along the east or west coasts, and it's s lot better than Chicago. Oklahoma City's nice size has kept it from getting too crowded, and the people here are just much nicer overall.

I don't agree with Texas being so high on the list. Go to Dallas and you can see how rude the drivers are there.

That sounds about right to me. People in Oklahoma are much better drivers than any place along the east or west coasts, and it's s lot better than Chicago. Oklahoma City's nice size has kept it from getting too crowded, and the people here are just much nicer overall.

My guess is you have not driven out of Oklahoma much. I have driven in every state except Alaka and Hawaii, and can say by experience, California and Florida drivers are the most polite in the nation. Oklahoma drivers are among the rudest.

here is my thought, I drive from Norman to downtown okc starting at 1pm and going back home at 9:30 pm, I keep in the far right lane 60 to 65 mph depending on traffic and the OHP. The far left lane is for faster drivers, unless you are passing or going to put the hammer down stay out, in Texas if you are lolly gagging in the left lane you'll get pulled over by the law, I try to respect other drivers, there are several things that tick me off on the interstate, today on the way to work to guys were in the center lane in their POS driving 40 -45 miles an hour, if you want to drive that slow get off the interstate. other things.. Grandpa and his RV, driver that drive side by side blocking traffic behind them, driver who merge into interstate traffic at 40 mph no signals and assume everyone know what the Hell they have in their mind,Grandma's praying the rosary and driving, I have seen people reading a freeking book while driving, weaving all over and yacking on the Cell phone.

My guess is you have not driven out of Oklahoma much. I have driven in every state except Alaka and Hawaii, and can say by experience, California and Florida drivers are the most polite in the nation. Oklahoma drivers are among the rudest.
That puzzles me. I have the exact opposite experience. I've been to Hawaii and California and although Hawaiians are quite nice people, they drive like maniacs. The same goes for California. I've driven all along the southwest, the gulf states and eastern seaboard and I still believe that Oklahoma has the easiest traffic and the most courteous drivers I've seen.

Looks like OKC's driver's arent' as bad as some of us think. We rank #35 in the nation. (the higher the number the better the drivers, the lower the number the worse the drivers). Portland, OR is the worst.

That's pretty strange considering I saw a report on CNN this morning regarding a study on drivers education tests nationwide. Drivers in Rhode Island ranked the worst (2nd year in a row) while drivers in Portland ranked best in the nation for most correct answers.

Many polls feature lots of spin and data mining, and I think it's pretty funny when two different studies contradict each other.

There's a fair number of drivers in Oklahoma that scare the $@#* out of me, especially the ones who feel the need to complete stop at the end of freeway on ramps and off ramps. However this state is not nearly the worst when it comes to dangerous drivers.

Oklahoma's flow of traffic just blows
hehe...actually i don't think its really that bad

On and off ramps seem to be a challenge

I don't understand why some of the traffic jams even occur.

Drive on the interstate when there is little traffic like at 4am. It seems like everyone drives so slow including myself.

It would make sense to me that the fast lane be the right lane. It would keep the slow ones out of the way and the faster drivers on their way. Why drive slow on an interstate anyway