For over 35 years I have been entertaining business guests from around the country and around the world. Without a doubt, the two most common requests for an evening restaurant spot is a steakhouse or a seafood restaurant. And in Oklahoma, Texas, Chicago and Kansas City it is 90% requests for a steakhouse...we are all known for our beef. Anyone opening and hoping to get the corporate (read "expense account") business, they start with a quality steak offering. And that is why I like McCormick and Schmick's, they have good beef and seafood. Capital Grille would be good too.

Don't forget about Red. It is excellent. MMantles is good. But a national name would be a sort of validation and is familiar on national corporate expense reports.

I've eaten at every one of those national brand steakhouses, and none of them are better, or as good, as Red. When I'm visiting somewhere, I not only want to shop at unique stores, I want to eat at restaurants that are unique to the area, expense account or not.

Sometimes the hyperbole here gets a little thick.

I agree, and freely admit to the exaggeration here. My point was really about choice of concept, not prospect for success.

I think so too. This space has the potential to be the living room of the city, and to make it another special-event, starchy steakhouse is a huge miscalculation. Just because more can afford a place doesn't mean it'll look trashy. My vision for this space would have been an upscale diner like this one in DC: New and Exciting | Menu | The Diner (http://www.dinerdc.com/index.php/section/category/menu/)

OKC could really use a place like that. I think 23rd St would be a good location. Personally, I think the steakhouse is perfect for the CBD. There are better locations for the trendy, unique stuff.

I've eaten at every one of those national brand steakhouses, and none of them are better, or as good, as Red. When I'm visiting somewhere, I not only want to shop at unique stores, I want to eat at restaurants that are unique to the area, expense account or not.

I agree the nationals aren't any better, but most out of town business people who aren't being hosted by a local will choose a tried and true brand more often than experimenting with an unknown local brand. You sound like the exception, not the rule. And, I am more like you and try the locals.

I've eaten at every one of those national brand steakhouses, and none of them are better, or as good, as Red. When I'm visiting somewhere, I not only want to shop at unique stores, I want to eat at restaurants that are unique to the area, expense account or not.
I agree with this. You can travel across the country for a vacation and end up eating at a restaurant that's also 5 minutes from your house back home. That used to be part of the appeal of travel. Trying new places. Remember when someone would say "Oh you're going there on vacation? I've got this great restaurant you've gotta eat at." It's way too homogenized now. That's why I hate the idea of Zio's and Hooters etc. in Bricktown. I feel that B'Town should be all original and/or local specialty places.

I don't know any big time city that doesn't have at least SOME of the premium upscale chains. It is somewhat a measure of the robustness and upscale capabilities of the marketplace. And frankly, some of them are very good. We could use a good upscale seafood restaurant downtown....or anywhere... In the city.

I agree about the upscale seafood, but because no one local has attempted such a concept. My concern about the steak chains is that people are followers. Even the locals will go to a Ruth's Chris or Morton's rather than their superior local restaurants. So, even if it is a measure of how far we've come, I'm happy none are here, frankly.

I agree about the upscale seafood, but because no one local has attempted such a concept. My concern about the steak chains is that people are followers. Even the locals will go to a Ruth's Chris or Morton's rather than their superior local restaurants. So, even if it is a measure of how far we've come, I'm happy none are here, frankly.

I am really surprised OKC doesn't have a Bonefish Grill. That is a step above Red Lobster as far as seafood chains are concerned. They have one in Tulsa.

And one in Wichita.

I agree about the upscale seafood, but because no one local has attempted such a concept. My concern about the steak chains is that people are followers. Even the locals will go to a Ruth's Chris or Morton's rather than their superior local restaurants. So, even if it is a measure of how far we've come, I'm happy none are here, frankly.

And sometimes the nationals, the good ones, force the locals to up their game. Just like Whole Foods has ignited changes throughout the city with local groceries adding products and services they should have long ago. Good competition is good for consumers. People having no choices, or protectionism, isn't good for consumers.

BTW, let a good seafood restaurant come here and be successful and you will see more locals follow suit. Otherwise we get more burger and steak joints.

And sometimes the nationals, the good ones, force the locals to up their game. Just like Whole Foods has ignited changes throughout the city with local groceries adding products and services they should have long ago. Good competition is good for consumers. People having no choices, or protectionism, isn't good for consumers.

BTW, let a good seafood restaurant come here and be successful and you will see more locals follow suit. Otherwise we get more burger and steak joints.

You are correct. Unfortunately, with the upscale chains its pretty much the same game we see with retail. They simply look at numbers, and they don't take into account disposable income, spread out wealth geographically, and the fact people in OKC are willing to drive farther than most cities. That's why you see upscale chains open in Tulsa, Wichita, and even Little Rock but pass OKC. Fortunately, with restaurants its not as big of a deal as local restauranteurs can many times do a superior job to chains.

However, OKC doesn't have any quality seafood though or so I hear. Correct me if I'm wrong.

If we're going to go with a chain, I'd 500x prefer a Mahogany over a Ruth's Chris, a Morton's, or a Fleming's. In fact, I suspect that with this move, Hal is trying to develop the brand equity so that he can expand the concept into other parts of the country. I just hope that they expand their wine list at the Downtown location actually be willing to sit on some nice bottles and expand the by the glass selection.

The national brands are not going to compete with Red or the Ranch....They're just not, and locals are not going to start going to those establishments.

And for the record, with the advent of Urban Spoon/Open Table/Yelp out of towners can get a good idea of how good a place is before going in. And word of mouth still moves really well. Trust that the *strong* local brands are going to do well regardless of a major chain moving in.

The national brands are not going to compete with Red or the Ranch....They're just not, and locals are not going to start going to those establishments.

And for the record, with the advent of Urban Spoon/Open Table/Yelp out of towners can get a good idea of how good a place is before going in. And word of mouth still moves really well. Trust that the *strong* local brands are going to do well regardless of a major chain moving in.

This.

I can only speak from my experience, but I go to Houston at least 3 times a year for business. We almost never eat at the Flemings/Ruth Chris national chain type places. Seems very 90's to me. I mean, whats the fun in going to a new place if you are just going to go to the same crap in your own town? At most, we will go to a local based chain, like Pappadeaux. Everyone has a Yelp or Urban Spoon app on their phone and we always try to find a local place. At the very least, we will ask some of the hotel staff or a local client we are meeting with, and they almost always pick some obscure, local place. Likewise, if we have a client come to our office, we will generally take them to lunch to a local place, usually downtown or midtown.

The Whole Foods/grocery store thing is probably not the fairest comparison because grocery stores in this area were so awful for so long. On the other hand, OKC has always been an eating out town, and has been a pretty decent one for the last few years. (although we need better seafood places, Pearls isn't cutting it LOL). And its always been locally skewed, even among suburbanites. Nobody is going to get excited over some chain on Memorial Road, but mention a place in the suburbs like Red Rock Canyon or Mama Rojas and everyone goes gaga. For this reason, it will be very hard for an upscale national steakhouse in this market. Plus, we practically slaughter the stuff in our backyard! I think it would be fair to say we know how to do steak here.

This.

I can only speak from my experience, but I go to Houston at least 3 times a year for business. We almost never eat at the Flemings/Ruth Chris national chain type places. Seems very 90's to me. I mean, whats the fun in going to a new place if you are just going to go to the same crap in your own town? At most, we will go to a local based chain, like Pappadeaux. Everyone has a Yelp or Urban Spoon app on their phone and we always try to find a local place. At the very least, we will ask some of the hotel staff or a local client we are meeting with, and they almost always pick some obscure, local place. Likewise, if we have a client come to our office, we will generally take them to lunch to a local place, usually downtown or midtown.

The Whole Foods/grocery store thing is probably not the fairest comparison because grocery stores in this area were so awful for so long. On the other hand, OKC has always been an eating out town, and has been a pretty decent one for the last few years. (although we need better seafood places, Pearls isn't cutting it LOL). And its always been locally skewed, even among suburbanites. Nobody is going to get excited over some chain on Memorial Road, but mention a place in the suburbs like Red Rock Canyon or Mama Rojas and everyone goes gaga. For this reason, it will be very hard for an upscale national steakhouse in this market. Plus, we practically slaughter the stuff in our backyard! I think it would be fair to say we know how to do steak here.They have a Pappadeaux in Dallas and I LOVE IT!!!!!!

You are correct. Unfortunately, with the upscale chains its pretty much the same game we see with retail. They simply look at numbers, and they don't take into account disposable income, spread out wealth geographically, and the fact people in OKC are willing to drive farther than most cities. That's why you see upscale chains open in Tulsa, Wichita, and even Little Rock but pass OKC. Fortunately, with restaurants its not as big of a deal as local restauranteurs can many times do a superior job to chains.

However, OKC doesn't have any quality seafood though or so I hear. Correct me if I'm wrong.

It would be worth your time to go to VAST and try their scallops....Best i've ever had, and the waiter said he's had several customers from the East coast that said the same.

You are correct. Unfortunately, with the upscale chains its pretty much the same game we see with retail. They simply look at numbers, and they don't take into account disposable income, spread out wealth geographically, and the fact people in OKC are willing to drive farther than most cities. That's why you see upscale chains open in Tulsa, Wichita, and even Little Rock but pass OKC. Fortunately, with restaurants its not as big of a deal as local restauranteurs can many times do a superior job to chains.

However, OKC doesn't have any quality seafood though or so I hear. Correct me if I'm wrong.

several places have very good seafood ... ludivine rococcos coach house to name a few

I forgot about Rococco. Love, love, love their crab cakes. I haven't been back to the Coach House since they changed the sauce on the Dover sole from lemon cream to orange. But neither is specifically seafood. I would love to have a primarily seafood restaurant here. The one at Lake Hefner didn't last long, however, which might give restauranteurs pause.

There is such a lack of a real "seafood" restaurant here barely anyone in OKC knows what one is. Yes, certain places have a seafood entree or two. Oklahomans think that selling fried shrimp means you are a seafood restaruant. Or that cajun with crawdads in their gumbo is seafood. Fried catfish isn't seafood..just sayin. It is a major hole in this market and I don't see any local suddenly inventing a great upscale or moderately upscale seafood restaurant. When Red Lobster is the best you have it is like saying Western Sizzlin is a great steakhouse.

We should all barrage the Pappas group with e-mails telling them to bring Pappadeaux to MidTown.

We should all barrage the Pappas group with e-mails telling them to bring Pappadeaux to MidTown.

Can't do that. That is a dreaded CHAIN. And, what is worse, that might open the door to Pappasitas or Pappas Steak House, or Pappas Grille.

Seafood is a situation where a chain would probably be best.

How is Pearl's? I've looked at the menu and it looks like there is quite a bit that's not fried.

Pearl's is good. I would say it definitely qualifies as a seafood restaurant since most if what they serve is fish. I suppose maybe Cajun is a better description, but a lot of Cajun is seafood.

I would rather see Pappadeaux in the Nichols Hills area personally, or maybe as an outparcel of Penn Square Mall. That said, I don't think they would open in OKC. They appear to be pretty exclusive.

I still don't know why Bonefish Grill has chosen to pass OKC despite having locations in Wichita, Tulsa, Little Rock, and Dallas.

Bonefish or Legal Seafood for casual, or McComick and Schmick's for upscale would be nice at this location.

Can't do that. That is a dreaded CHAIN. And, what is worse, that might open the door to Pappasitas or Pappas Steak House, or Pappas Grille. Yes, it is a regional chain but a hell of a good one! I love Pappadeaux's. I always wondered why OKC does not have a good or great seafood place?

Bonefish or Legal Seafood for casual, or McComick and Schmick's for upscale would be nice at this location.

Bonefish is very good. I've eaten at McCormick and Schmick's in three cities over the last two years and it's quite mediocre. I would rather have a Bonefish.

Yes, it is a regional chain but a hell of a good one! I love Pappadeaux's. I always wondered why OKC does not have a good or great seafood place?

I was being sarcastic. I love the Pappas family restaurants. Would love to have some here.

Bonefish is very good. I've eaten at McCormick and Schmick's in three cities over the last two years and it's quite mediocre. I would rather have a Bonefish.

The original Bonefish is great. Some of their new stores I've been at have been good, but not as good as the original. McCormick and Schmicks gets very good to excellent ratings almost everywhere. Zagats rates most of their restaurants as very good.

The original Bonefish is great. Some of their new stores I've been at have been good, but not as good as the original. McCormick and Schmicks gets very good to excellent ratings almost everywhere. Zagats rates most of their restaurants as very good.

Zagat's has led me astray a few times.

I will admit that M&S is a step above Red Lobster. It's not, however, an outstanding seafood restaurant. It is a decent expense account joint, though.

People having no choices, or protectionism, isn't good for consumers.

Unfortunately, Oklahoma City has a history opposite that of protecting its local businesses. We have been much more likely to subsidize chains to come in and compete against long standing local business through tax breaks, direct investment, or favorable land deals, than we are to use the same resources to cultivate or "protect" decades old Oklahoma City businesses. Maybe if some local places got government incentives that mitigated the risk of new concepts, we would see more innovation from them as well.

Can't do that. That is a dreaded CHAIN. And, what is worse, that might open the door to Pappasitas or Pappas Steak House, or Pappas Grille.

I mean, I know this is hyperbole, but I would genuinely rather not have chains all over OKC either. That's what makes Pappadeaux a good choice. With the exception of one Pappasito's in Marietta, GA; Pappadeaux is the only concept they have taken outside of Texas.

They're certainly not going to bring a Pappas Steak House into OKC....that's about 5x less likely than OKC getting an NFL team.

I know this is WAY off topic, but is there any kind of mechanism that fosters new restaurant business as an incubator does for other types of business (or are restaurant businesses suitable for a standard incubator concept anyway)? Do we still have any incubators in process downtown?

I know this is WAY off topic, but is there any kind of mechanism that fosters new restaurant business as an incubator does for other types of business (or are restaurant businesses suitable for a standard incubator concept anyway)? Do we still have any incubators in process downtown?

The OKC Chamber has a person who develops relationships and recruits national retailers. I'm not sure if they include restaurants or not.

But as far as home-grown, seems like A Good Egg Group, Hal Smith and others seem to be the best place to learn the trade and develop a concept.

And food trucks seem to be another way of getting started and testing out ideas.


I don't think any of the local business incubators deal with restaurants.

Unfortunately, Oklahoma City has a history opposite that of protecting its local businesses. We have been much more likely to subsidize chains to come in and compete against long standing local business through tax breaks, direct investment, or favorable land deals, than we are to use the same resources to cultivate or "protect" decades old Oklahoma City businesses. Maybe if some local places got government incentives that mitigated the risk of new concepts, we would see more innovation from them as well.

One reason that happens is that some the chains are very desirable not only for residents but for attracting tourism. Quite often it pays off big for a city to have them both from a sales tax standpoint and a tourism viewpoint. I often see people on this site that talk about going to Dallas to shop at one chain store or another. There is nothing wrong with that. In most cases we wish that we had those stores in OKC.

Yes, it is a regional chain but a hell of a good one! I love Pappadeaux's. I always wondered why OKC does not have a good or great seafood place?

In this part of the country, far from the coast, chains are going to be the most likely way to bring quality seafood in. It goes back I think to the same reason most quality chains skip over OKC and open in Tulsa instead. These franchisers don't look at the big picture concerning OKC.

One reason that happens is that some the chains are very desirable not only for residents but for attracting tourism. Quite often it pays off big for a city to have them both from a sales tax standpoint and a tourism viewpoint. I often see people on this site that talk about going to Dallas to shop at one chain store or another. There is nothing wrong with that. In most cases we wish that we had those stores in OKC.

You get the sales tax and some low paying jobs, but you lose the profit and kill off long time Oklahoma City businesses. And, local shops, especially when concentrated in an area can generate tons of tourism as well. Maybe we could create an incentivized shopping district for local businesses equal to that we have given to outsiders. We gave almost 8 million dollars in incentives to an outlet mall. I bet that money would go a long way towards creating a local shopping district than is much more interesting that an outlet mall, still generate tourism and tax dollars, AND the profits stay in Oklahoma.

Any new updates on construction or renderings?
Were building permits issued or just demolition permits?

One of the common video displays found in Times Square is the stock ticker. Relevancy wise that make sense as NYC is also the home of Wall Street.

I've often wondered what could the video display, at the Oklahoman's new Century Center office, show that would be unique and relevant to Oklahoma?

My thoughts keep coming back to energy, Oklahoma is a leader in energy production oil, natural gas and wind. The easy display would be an Oklahoma company or energy company stock price ticker and while that would be relevant to Oklahoma that would not necessarily be unique.

But what if there was a portion of the display had an energy counter or counters that showed the number of vehicles that ran on natural gas? Perhaps the total number in the US, the number in state, it could be a total number or it could also show the number of cars / light trucks and the number of semi truck / industrial engines. Maybe even include the a display for electric vehicles. Or the amount of electricity generated by the wind, US and sate. They could also display the number of old well sites that have been rehabilitated by OERB.

One of the common video displays found in Times Square is the stock ticker. Relevancy wise that make sense as NYC is also the home of Wall Street.

I've often wondered what could the video display, at the Oklahoman's new Century Center office, show that would be unique and relevant to Oklahoma?

My thoughts keep coming back to energy, Oklahoma is a leader in energy production oil, natural gas and wind. The easy display would be an Oklahoma company or energy company stock price ticker and while that would be relevant to Oklahoma that would not necessarily be unique.

But what if there was a portion of the display had an energy counter or counters that showed the number of vehicles that ran on natural gas? Perhaps the total number in the US, the number in state, it could be a total number or it could also show the number of cars / light trucks and the number of semi truck / industrial engines. Maybe even include the a display for electric vehicles. Or the amount of electricity generated by the wind, US and sate. They could also display the number of old well sites that have been rehabilitated by OERB.

Leadership square has a small ticker that shows similar information, and I believe the ne side of Corporate tower does as well. I like the other ideas for ok related info you listed as well.

One of the common video displays found in Times Square is the stock ticker. Relevancy wise that make sense as NYC is also the home of Wall Street.

I've often wondered what could the video display, at the Oklahoman's new Century Center office, show that would be unique and relevant to Oklahoma?

My thoughts keep coming back to energy, Oklahoma is a leader in energy production oil, natural gas and wind. The easy display would be an Oklahoma company or energy company stock price ticker and while that would be relevant to Oklahoma that would not necessarily be unique.

But what if there was a portion of the display had an energy counter or counters that showed the number of vehicles that ran on natural gas? Perhaps the total number in the US, the number in state, it could be a total number or it could also show the number of cars / light trucks and the number of semi truck / industrial engines. Maybe even include the a display for electric vehicles. Or the amount of electricity generated by the wind, US and sate. They could also display the number of old well sites that have been rehabilitated by OERB.

Current weather conditions? lol

Around here, sometimes showing current weather updates might speed by too fast for folks to read.

Something like this,

http://www.okctalk.com/attachments/urban-development-buildings/3901d1372699598-century-center-energy-counter.png


Just thought that something like this would be interesting for residents and visitors alike. Something unique, perhaps a good conversation starter.

Note; The numbers shown are current.

Anything happening with this?

There was a building permit about a month ago to do foundation work for the garage add-on.

Not sure if that has started yet.

Also, they have yet to submit their plans for design review.

Devon Energy Center Aerials (July 26 2013) - a set on Flickr (http://www.flickr.com/photos/williamhider/sets/72157634839526279/)

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3733/9390589907_97914e7fc4_b.jpg

Is OPUBCO going to keep the pool for those inevitable blistering summer days?

Devon Energy Center Aerials (July 26 2013) - a set on Flickr (http://www.flickr.com/photos/williamhider/sets/72157634839526279/)

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3733/9390589907_97914e7fc4_b.jpg

Is OPUBCO going to keep the pool for those inevitable blistering summer days?

The pool is between the Sheraton and the century center. I am sure Steve will have an office overlooking the prime real estate.

I'm sure the pool is for hotel patrons mainly.

From the Butzer Gardner Architects website:

http://www.butzergardner.com/uploads/tn_cc7.jpg
http://www.butzergardner.com/uploads/tn_cc3.jpg http://www.butzergardner.com/uploads/tn_cc5.jpg
http://www.butzergardner.com/uploads/tn_cc8.jpg http://www.butzergardner.com/uploads/tn_804_cc1.jpg
http://www.butzergardner.com/uploads/tn_cc4.jpg http://www.butzergardner.com/uploads/tn_cc6.jpg

That says "Grocery"

And if I ever see that many people outside walking on a normal day in OKC...I will die a happy man.

Noticed "grocery" as well. Exciting. Could something be in the works to lure a grocer downtown?

If I see sidewalks that wide in OKC, I'd be a very happy man. That last rendering make it look like they are about 20' wide.

That's about the distance from building to street at the Century Center...so if they just pave all that area (where there is currently grass), then you'll have a 20' sidewalk.

Might we actually get something like Reading Terminal Market, Grand Central Market in NYC, Covenant Garden Market, or The English Market? I doubt but it would be a tourist attraction all on its own.

GROCERY? Really???

The renderings look good, but I feel a little cautious. I hope the materials, fit, and finish are high quality, otherwise this could end up looking like a cheap "tack-on".

The renderings look good, but I feel a little cautious. I hope the materials, fit, and finish are high quality, otherwise this could end up looking like a cheap "tack-on".

It will look fine.

Now if we can just get the Sheraton to find a new color...

What's the wording on this pic (orange letters on the street front)?

http://www.butzergardner.com/uploads/tn_cc8.jpg

I can't make it out.

The Combine.