Parking is not being added because of cost

Well duh. But now there is a parking problem to resolve.

As is usually the case with urban planning, these things are usually connected.

I say, tear it down and start over with a proper highrise office tower ABOVE parking and retail on the same lot. It appears somebody's being cheap if they cant pay to add parking but want to renovate a mall to become home to 400+ daytime employees.

JTF, I agree with your argument but reality is today that most folks will drive into downtown; maybe in 5-years or so we can talk more realistic about folks taking commuter transit.

I'm not optimistic about this project. It's been a series of downward revisions, always heading for the cheap end.

They don't have money for the parking levels, which are actually badly needed. But they're still going to put up a huge outdoor video screen, that is not an essential by any means. Except that will probably get scrapped at some point too.

I won't be terribly surprised if this development eventually falls through and OPUBCO ends up moving to a different location. This whole thing has a look of clusterf**k to me.

I'm not optimistic about this project. It's been a series of downward revisions, always heading for the cheap end.

They don't have money for the parking levels, which are actually badly needed. But they're still going to put up a huge outdoor video screen, that is not an essential by any means. Except that will probably get scrapped at some point too.

I won't be terribly surprised if this development eventually falls through and OPUBCO ends up moving to a different location. This whole thing has a look of clusterf**k to me.

That video screen is peanuts compared to adding Parking.

I don't think there would be talks of this being the first CVS/Walgreens if things were as dire as you're saying. In fact, I found myself wondering if the parking was scrapped because the possibility of getting CVS/Walgreens in would be missed by adding the parking (i.e. CVS/WG would opt for another development that would be available sooner).

That video screen will be a revenue generator for OPUBCO more than likely....i'm sure it will happen.

I'm not optimistic about this project. It's been a series of downward revisions, always heading for the cheap end.

They don't have money for the parking levels, which are actually badly needed. But they're still going to put up a huge outdoor video screen, that is not an essential by any means. Except that will probably get scrapped at some point too.

I won't be terribly surprised if this development eventually falls through and OPUBCO ends up moving to a different location. This whole thing has a look of clusterf**k to me.

I'm just speaking as a member of OKC Talk, not on behalf of anyone here. But it's happening. The lease is signed. The improvements have to be done as reviewed and approved by the Downtown Design Review Committee. And while I'm obviously biased on the matter, I can tell you this is all looking pretty good. We're looking at a couple thousand parking spaces being added downtown over the next couple of years. I'd also caution you not to put a lot of stock into what you read .... notice I always respected Brianna Bailey when she was at the Journal Record. I have nothing to say about this other person who once worked at The Oklahoman.

So let me ask, are we getting to a point where private downtown companies want/require/demand public funding to house the private possessions of their employees? Once again, the public should fund public transportation and the private sector should fund private transportation. If the public builds a parking garage it should be open to the public (i.e. no reserved spaces).

I'm not optimistic about this project. It's been a series of downward revisions, always heading for the cheap end.

They don't have money for the parking levels, which are actually badly needed. But they're still going to put up a huge outdoor video screen, that is not an essential by any means. Except that will probably get scrapped at some point too.

I won't be terribly surprised if this development eventually falls through and OPUBCO ends up moving to a different location. This whole thing has a look of clusterf**k to me.


That video screen will be a revenue generator for OPUBCO more than likely....i'm sure it will happen.


So let me ask, are we getting to a point where private downtown companies want/require/demand public funding to house the private possessions of their employees? Once again, the public should fund public transportation and the private sector should fund private transportation. If the public builds a parking garage it should be open to the public (i.e. no reserved spaces).

THIS. I think more than anything this goes to show the loss of money and influence OPUBCO has had in recent years. It's dramatic; however I think for the best of OKC, as information wants to be free and not held by the good ole boy networks of decades past. While I hope OPUBCO stays around, there is no denying they haven't taken a significant hit. I hope in the future (if not already) sites like OKCTalk can go head to head with legacy media organizations. We have hundreds if not thousands of "on the ground" daily reporters on this site and the majority of time, we're right. Best of luck to OPUBCO and I hope the Walgreen's/CVS rumor is true.

Why does this show the loss of money for OPUBCO? I was under the impression they're leasing the space, so it is another developer's pockets that aren't deep enough to make the project happen as originally proposed.

We're looking at a couple thousand parking spaces being added downtown over the next couple of years.

Where besides the new Main Street Garage (830) and the addition to the City Center East Garage (336)?

Are you including the proposed Don Karchmer project in Bricktown or is there something else not yet announced?

^ Also the Dowell garage.

And the almost sure garage to come with Stage Center Tower.

Yes, Dowell will add about another 400, for a total of about 1,600 new spaces.

Of course, his 20-story building is now completely empty and that addition will not provide enough spaces just for those tenants.

You're assuming he will ever have that building ready to go.

You're assuming he will ever have that garage addition ready to go. :)

You're assuming he will ever have that garage addition ready to go. :)

:)

Why does this show the loss of money for OPUBCO? I was under the impression they're leasing the space, so it is another developer's pockets that aren't deep enough to make the project happen as originally proposed.

Let's not let facts get in the way of misinformed rants

I'm not optimistic about this project. It's been a series of downward revisions, always heading for the cheap end.

They don't have money for the parking levels, which are actually badly needed. But they're still going to put up a huge outdoor video screen, that is not an essential by any means. Except that will probably get scrapped at some point too.

I won't be terribly surprised if this development eventually falls through and OPUBCO ends up moving to a different location. This whole thing has a look of clusterf**k to me.
5177

Is he counting the one on 10th in auto alley?

Is he counting the one on 10th in auto alley?

Perhaps!

That 123 Garage will have 300 spaces.

Why does this show the loss of money for OPUBCO? I was under the impression they're leasing the space, so it is another developer's pockets that aren't deep enough to make the project happen as originally proposed.

Developers build upon demand. They're not going to build a massive facility if OPUBCO is willing to pay "x" or originally overshot their needs/projections. My point is that OPUBCO sold their massive tower and printing plant on Broadway Ext. and have had massive layoffs the last decade. Not exactly a sign of prosperity. My point isn't to bash OPUBCO, but rather show how much the old guard is finally changing (by market demands) in OKC for the better. That said, I'm excited about their move back downtown and think it's at least a decade overdue.

How about the garage proposed near the Journal record building ?

How about the garage proposed near the Journal record building ?

I think they filed for permits and will be starting soon if I read correctly.

I think they filed for permits and will be starting soon if I read correctly.

no permits for that garage. 123 garage on 10th I think...

No I read something today talking about the garage across from Journal Record.

^

That garage by the JR building is just proposed -- no definite plans as of yet.

Pete, I read a new article update on it, I'll have to dig it up later. I'm heading out right now.

It's sounding more and more like CVS has inked a deal in this project, or is very close.

Typically, they take 11-15,000 square feet.

I'm assuming they will take the space east of OPUBCO on the Main Street (north) side, but that isn't that big; approx. 6,000 sf. There is an identical lease space directly above so this would either be a 2-level store or a very small one.

Research shows that they have opened a lot of stores in downtown areas, including very recently in El Paso.

Here is the floor plan from the recently submitted design review application; of course it may have changed and one idea would be to give OPUBCO more space on the 2nd level and let CVS take all the frontage along Main.

http://www.okctalk.com/attachments/development-buildings/5029d1384531489-century-center-cc111513b.jpg

BTW, the downtown El Paso CVS keeps pretty good hours:

Mon - Fri 7A - 9P
Sat 7A - 8P
Sun 8A - 5P

This would provide a whole range of services for downtown, especially people living down there. Good assortment of food (some perishables like milk) and household goods.

Would be a great compliment to Native Roots, as there wouldn't be too much overlap and offer more national brand brand items.

It will be an urban CVS.

Urban Cluster is the design name of the store layout for these types of CVS.

Urban Cluster is the design name of the store layout for these types of CVS.

This link shows 25 pictures of the Urban Cluster concept.

CVS clusters consumables in new urban store concept | Drug Store News (http://www.drugstorenews.com/cvs-clusters-consumables-new-urban-store-concept)

If you guys/gals haven't read The End of the Suburbs yet I suggest you put it on your Christmas list. The demographic and economic shift that is about to take place is going to be huge. Corporate Retail America is just now catching on.

Book sounds interesting, but the suburbs won't end nearly as quick as you imagine. You spend your waking hours with urbanism on your mind, JTF, but most people are completely oblivious to the concept or lifestyle. I believe that urbanism will continue to make gains, but suburbs aren't dying any time soon. I know a lot more 25-35 year olds building in the suburbs in OKC than moving to the core. Urbanism won't likely be a quick revolution, but slower, more incremental change. No?

Book sounds interesting, but the suburbs won't end nearly as quick as you imagine. You spend your waking hours with urbanism on your mind, JTF, but most people are completely oblivious to the concept or lifestyle. I believe that urbanism will continue to make gains, but suburbs aren't dying any time soon. I know a lot more 25-35 year olds building in the suburbs in OKC than moving to the core. Urbanism won't likely be a quick revolution, but slower, more incremental change. No?

You also have to remember we'd be pulling up the rear on this trend because we're wedded to the car culture in a big way. Our future transit plans hope to change that, but no time soon. At least that's my guess.

To get this somewhat back on track, my point was that many retailers are now coming out with urban store concepts and retailers are always late to the design game. They pick a design/strategy and stick with it until it doesn't work any more. CVS is going build 1,400 of these stores over the next few years.

Rather than this being the result of wishful thinking of new Urbanist zealots that the suburbs are dead, it is just segment marketing. All markets are made up of segments and most retailers try to exploit as many segments as they can. Drug stores are very scalable and adaptable to many sites and demographic segments. Proper store design and merchandise selection will make this a very successful store.

Please do NOT turn this into yet another urban vs. suburban debate. We have plenty of those elsewhere.

Thanks.

I like the location if that is what ends up going in there. Last June my wife and I stayed at the Colcord for our anniversary and she ended up rolling her ankle on our way back from dinner. I didn't think anything about it until about 2:00am when she said she couldn't sleep because her ankle hurt so bad. I had to get the car out of the valet parking and drive to only place I knew would be open 24 hours, the On-Cue at 23rd and I-235 to get some extra strength Tylenol. Once this moves in and more housing/hotels are built downtown, I would like to see it open 24/7.

It's sounding more and more like CVS has inked a deal in this project, or is very close.

Based on what you're hearing directly from reliable sources? Or... ?

Not doubting you, just determining how high I should get my hopes up.

^

I've heard from more than one trusted source this is a "done deal".

Please do NOT turn this into yet another urban vs. suburban debate. We have plenty of those elsewhere.

Thanks.

Thank you.

^

I've heard from more than one trusted source this is a "done deal".


Awesome. It is a merry christmas after all...

Where will they put the requisite Walgreen's?

There is a Walgreen's pharmacy at St. Anthony. :)

CVS seems to be a little more downtown-friendly than Walgreens, hence their separate urban merchandising scheme.



Still don't know about the restaurant tenant for the SW corner of the Century Center, now that Mahogany has pulled out.

There are rumors about Panera Bread looking downtown but I hope they find a cool local operator.

Please do NOT turn this into yet another urban vs. suburban debate. We have plenty of those elsewhere.

Thanks.

Where are the damn like buttons when I need them!?!?!???

The walgreens at st anthony is pretty much strictly a pharmacy isn't it?

Where are the damn like buttons when I need them!?!?!???

Why do they only show up on certain feeds?

Why do they only show up on certain feeds?

They don't work within the wiki articles -- at least for the time being. :)

To get this somewhat back on track, my point was that many retailers are now coming out with urban store concepts and retailers are always late to the design game. They pick a design/strategy and stick with it until it doesn't work any more. CVS is going build 1,400 of these stores over the next few years.Retailers have built urban stores before. This is nothing new. It is a cycle. Urbanism is not going to take over anytime soon, and even if it does, it'll be a cycle of urban development booms and suburban development booms. Just sit back and watch.

Please do NOT turn this into yet another urban vs. suburban debate. We have plenty of those elsewhere.

Thanks.Saw this after I already posted. Maybe we should just delete all of the off topic posts. I only responded to JTF(who seems like he is generally is the one to start those arguments) because he has posted about that book a thousand times on here.

Dang. I thought it was a near universally applied city ordinance if a CVS was approved for a corner, the opposite corner had to be approved/reserved for a Walgreen's. Will wonders never cease.

Don't think that walgreens won't notice. I bet after this starts construction or opens, Walgreens will build somewhere downtown (midtown or deep deuce) shortly or lease a storefront in the CBD.

No so sure about Walgreens.

They aren't as downtown-inclined and when I talked to their real estate rep a few years ago, he told me they felt the 23rd & Classen store served downtown well enough.

But of course, much has changed since then.

Dang. I thought it was a near universally applied city ordinance if a CVS was approved for a corner, the opposite corner had to be approved/reserved for a Walgreen's. Will wonders never cease.

What do you think will replace the Myriad?

What do you think will replace the Myriad?

Nothing. It's sort of the cockroach of DT. It may be there long after we are all worm food.

Nothing. It's sort of the cockroach of DT. It may be there long after we are all worm food.

I was there on the Myriad's Grand Opening night (probably with some other of the geezers, like me, on the board). It's still hard for me to get used to thinking of it being old. But, alas, like myself - it's getting old.

I was there on the Myriad's Grand Opening night (probably with some other of the geezers, like me, on the board). It's still hard for me to get used to thinking of it being old. But, alas, like myself - it's getting old.

Yep, getting old sucks and I'm fighting it every step of the way...haha... I was at what I believe was the the first concert at the Myriad... Neil Young and Linda Ronstadt... Excellent Show... Young's album cover for "Time Fades Away" was a pic taken of the crowd from the stage and I'm in there somewhere... It was spectacular compared to the fairgrounds arena...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b7/Timefadesaway.jpeg

Yep, getting old sucks and I'm fighting it every step of the way...haha... I was at what I believe was the the first concert at the Myriad... Neil Young and Linda Ronstadt... Excellent Show... Young's album cover for "Time Fades Away" was a pic taken of the crowd from the stage and I'm in there somewhere... It was spectacular compared to the fairgrounds arena...

OUCH. How time flies. I was there too, because I remember thinking Ronstadt was much better than Neil Young.

OUCH. How time flies. I was there too, because I remember thinking Ronstadt was much better LOOKING than Neil Young.

Fixed.

By the way, Neil Young HATED that tour and the accompanying live album, and there was a lot of strife and instability (and substance issues) among the all-star-ish band that he was touring with, so it certainly seems possible that she was better.

My Neil Young show at the Myriad was in (I think) 1990 with Sonic Youth and Social Distortion. Same place, a very different time.