In my opinion the shopping center frankly looks fairly lousy and tacky. There is no coordination in the various styles of stores. Rather than having a united theme or color scheme for everything as in most shopping centers (i.e. Belle Isle or Quail Area or Norman). Don't even get my started on the lack of brick or coordination. I mean look at the Old Navy! It appears to be under construction, several weeks after opening. In five years, the paint will wash and the stucco will be looking like the typical "southside scum" reputation. I'm really dissapointed in Odom for this one.

In my opinion the shopping center frankly looks fairly lousy and tacky. There is no coordination in the various styles of stores.

I actually think diverse storefronts are good because they give the impression of a neighborhood street where there's something new around the corner (even if it's all fake.) The new lifestyle centers swim in this concept. Penn Plaza's problem is that it is so cheaply and lamely done, there's no doubt it's all one building (facing nothing but surface parking, no less) But that's what you get when you have tenants like Marshalls and Old Navy. Here's a good example of a fake street:

http://www.crockerpark.com/downloads/crockerpark.mov

http://www.crockerpark.com/events/gallery/American%20Liberty%20Fest%202006/thumbs/tn_med_DSC_0014.JPG

http://www.crockerpark.com/events/gallery/American%20Liberty%20Fest%202006/thumbs/tn_med_DSC_0005.JPG

At the same time I do like unifed designs if they're done as well as at the OU campus. That's why I too am looking forward to UNP.

In five years, the paint will wash and the stucco will be looking like the typical "southside scum" reputation

Crappy opinions and generalizations like "southside scum" do a lot more to perpetuate that supposed reputation than one shopping mall. What has been built is *infinitely* better than the empty, decaying Wal Mart building that occupied the land previously, and (as others have noted) not everyone equates a diverse roofline with "scumminess."

As someone who has lived in south Oklahoma City nearly all my life, I resent the "southside scum" comment. I live about three miles from that shopping center, and am proud to live in a beautiful neighborhood that is far, far removed from this "southside scum" label (as my property taxes will also attest).

Many on this board have embraced various ideas on how we can advance our city. Dropping references that divide our city on illusory geographical and financial demographics would be a *great* start. Its hard to take constructive criticism from anyone who sits down and says, to the effect, "Oh, hi, you must be southside scum!" Those kinds of turf wars have to end.

-SoonerDave

Crappy opinions and generalizations like "southside scum" do a lot more to perpetuate that supposed reputation than one shopping mall. What has been built is *infinitely* better than the empty, decaying Wal Mart building that occupied the land previously, and (as others have noted) not everyone equates a diverse roofline with "scumminess."

As someone who has lived in south Oklahoma City nearly all my life, I resent the "southside scum" comment. I live about three miles from that shopping center, and am proud to live in a beautiful neighborhood that is far, far removed from this "southside scum" label (as my property taxes will also attest).

Many on this board have embraced various ideas on how we can advance our city. Dropping references that divide our city on illusory geographical and financial demographics would be a *great* start. Its hard to take constructive criticism from anyone who sits down and says, to the effect, "Oh, hi, you must be southside scum!" Those kinds of turf wars have to end.

-SoonerDave

I too have lived on the southside all of my life. I never claimed the land would have been better used as empty real estate. However, driving past the shopping center everyday, I think Odom dropped the ball on this one. Their other places, Palagio, and Chatenay Square (pretty close to my home), are much nicer and won't look trashy in five years time.

For as long as I can remember the southside of the city has had a poor reputation. As long as the southside keeps giving into this stigma, which isn't representative of the area, the reputation will not go away. I mean we have the wealthiest zip code in the state, yet it seems like the developers don't wish to put much effort into the area.

As long as the southside keeps giving into this stigma...

Which is *precisely* why I point out that people who *LIVE* on the southside shouldn't be so eager to perpetuate the misconception with comments like "that's southside scum" just because it happens to be stucco.

*You* correctly pointed out that it isn't representative of the area, and I'm already aware that it isn't, so why on earth would you come here and say words to the effect of, "Oh, this tacky new development looks like...[more] southside scum!"

-SoonerDave

I too have lived on the southside all of my life. I never claimed the land would have been better used as empty real estate. However, driving past the shopping center everyday, I think Odom dropped the ball on this one. Their other places, Palagio, and Chatenay Square (pretty close to my home), are much nicer and won't look trashy in five years time.

For as long as I can remember the southside of the city has had a poor reputation. As long as the southside keeps giving into this stigma, which isn't representative of the area, the reputation will not go away. I mean we have the wealthiest zip code in the state, yet it seems like the developers don't wish to put much effort into the area.

I am lost.. What zip code on the southside is the wealthiest in the state?!?! And how? I would imagine the zip code that Gaillardia resides in would be the wealthiest zip code in the state...

Diesel,

The demographics for the zipcodes in the SW OKC region that center roughly in the SW 104th and Penn/SW 119th & May area, and span for about three to five miles out represent one of if not the the highest per-capita income levels in the state. There was an extensive story about this surprising (to some) fact in the Oklahoman about two or three years ago - it was the highest growth area in the region as well - growing even faster than Edmond/far north OKC which all are possessed of the perception that all the money resides there.

This south OKC region encompasses several high-rent districts, such as Rivendell, Lakeridge Run, The Fountains, the original Greenbriar, Lakeridge, Legacy, VineHaven, the new Cascata, and several others who (frustratingly) escape my mind at the moment (can see them in my head, just can't pull out the names).

Gallardia, by comparison, is a very specific neighborhood.

It does come as a shock to many that some people make more than $1.50/hr south of Reno. We just got flush terlits last week :)

That's also one of the reasons I'm always on my rant to get a Barnes and Noble store in south OKC. There's *plenty* of money down here from *literate* people who can actually read that would LOVE a big bookstore, but have to go to one of two on (way) north May, or (way) south to Norman because the apparent perception is that everyone on this side of town is broke and illiterate.

-SoonerDave

That's also one of the reasons I'm always on my rant to get a Barnes and Noble store in south OKC. There's *plenty* of money down here from *literate* people who can actually read that would LOVE a big bookstore, but have to go to one of two on (way) north May, or (way) south to Norman because the apparent perception is that everyone on this side of town is broke and illiterate.


AMEN!!! I am sick of running to Norman or just going to Amazon.com for books I need quickly. I would even settle for a Borders on Southside. I think somewhere along I-44 around 119th or 134th would be a good spot, since I imagine Moore will eventually get one of the two.

UPDATE

You could also called "Dazed and Confused."

After months of speculation, supposed confirmation, and presumably even CONSTRUCTION that Fuddruckers Hamburgers was coming to the I-240 Penn Park in Oklahoma City, a new development has arisen.

Looks like Fuddruckers is a phantom.

Driving by the construction site tonight, I noticed some construction supplies still in their factory packaging. On the packaging was written in large, Sharpie-marker letters the word "CHARLESTON'S."

A call to a local Charleston's confirms that they will be opening at 1429 W I-240 Service Road in November, presumably before Thanksgiving. This is the same address that has been listed for Fuddruckers for the past several months - even in the local OKC phone book. A call to that number rings through to the Bull Market Restaurant Group offices in Tulsa.

Fuddruckers was supposed to be operation last April, and now it appears all the plans that we had been told via email from Bull Market representatives (twice in my case) are quite likely now up in smoke.

The only hope I can conjure for Fuddruckers is that they might plan to take over an existing space presently occupied by another restaurant that might be planning to close. On the I-240 and Penn strip near this mall are a Don Pablo's, a Golden Corral, and a Santa Fe Steakhouse. Another Santa Fe location on Meridian closed some two years ago, and the Don Pablo's on Memorial Road closed a year or more ago. I have no information whatsoever that any of these locations might be closing; it's merely a theory on my part (and as far as Santa Fe goes, I consider it wishful thinking).

If I sound a bit tentative on all this, I do, not because I dislike Charleston's (I'm very pleased to see that Charleston's is coming in - great place), but I must admit I was looking forward to Fuddrucker's. I guess I can hold out some home that something will happen because BullMarket Restaurants has retained the phone number listed for the erstwhile Fuddrucker's location.

-SoonerDave

They could still build a new freestanding restraunt. According to P.B. Odom's website the center still has another phase to complete.

240 Penn Park
LocationI-240 and South Pennsylvania, east side of Pennsylvania; north of I-240

Zoning C-4 Highest and broadest retail zoning available. Will accommodate all retail uses.

Size 192,735 Square feet; 4.42 acres. Will be a 60,000 square foot Phase 2 expansion of the 300.000 square foot 240 Penn Park, a Power Center.

Surroundings This is part of the 50 acre, 300,000 square feet 240 Penn Park development which includes Old Navy; Ross; Pets Mart; Santa Fe Steak House; Mardel's; Don Pablo's; Golden Corral; Denny's; Carl's Jr.; Chase. It is accessible from off ramp on I-240 and also by a tree lined Blvd. street east of Pennsylvania.

Utilities Phase 2 will start in 2006. Phase 1 was completed in early 2006

Yes, they certainly could. Odom has a sign indicating that 61,500 sqft of space are available in "Phase II."
running on the north side of that access road that leads to the mall.

I just wonder if they're still interested. I'm hoping the fact that the phone number for Fuddruckers in OKC is still at least operational is a hopeful sign.

-SoonerDave

Yeah, I've heard nothing about any more SuperTarget rumors in south OKC for some time now. If that rumor had any life, I think it has pretty much died, regrettably.

-SoonerDave

SuperTarget has already broken ground behind the shopping center at 104th and Western. It's by that old farm that's now a housing addition...

SuperTarget was supposed to build in Moore but went there instead.

^
you mean 119th & western. i didn't know they broke ground? that's pretty good news. -M

I'm pretty sure it is 104th...it's the intersection with Palazzo or whatever PB Odom is now calling the old Albertson's...

really... just south of bowling green? i didn't think there was enough room there.

i do remember several years ago there being a rumor that supertarget was going in at 119th and western... but i thought it fell through, especially now that the one in norman has been built. -M

Norman might as well be the Yukon Territory.

Yeah, Bowling Green. You haven't seen the ground moving on this? I was pretty sure there was also a sign (that is conveniently impossible to read while driving on Western) but I may be wrong.

true, norman is a pretty good distance just to stop for common needs. nope, haven't noticed the dirt moved... i'll make a point to drive by while i'm out & about tonight.

i do know bowling green is being revamped... from what i hear (and i hope they're wrong) is that it won't have bowling anymore. -M

I never knew it had bowling alleys in the first place. On second thought it was too nice of a shopping center to have a bowling alley.

I keep forgetting the name of that old farm back in there that was converted to housing, but they are adding a shopping center with that development, and I'm pretty sure it will have a Super Target.

I may be wrong but I doubt it, I've heard too many people at my office that live down there talking about it.

I never knew it had bowling alleys in the first place. On second thought it was too nice of a shopping center to have a bowling alley.

I keep forgetting the name of that old farm back in there that was converted to housing, but they are adding a shopping center with that development, and I'm pretty sure it will have a Super Target.

I may be wrong but I doubt it, I've heard too many people at my office that live down there talking about it.

The farm was owned by a family named Thedford.

...the subdivision is called meadowlake farms. i'm glad that they left the silo standing; nice touch. -M

I teach at Westmoore and live on SW 137th. Also go to church at WCC. The talk was that a SuperTarget was going in on the old farm property just north of Westmoore and WCC. But, that rumor has been dead for some time as far as I know.

you teach at westmoore... did you teach there any time between 93-96? -M

Been there for 18 years. Was there the day it opened.

Well Sooner, I want you to meet someone very dear to you. Your former student, M!

well... i was only there for three years. as a student.

after reviewing posts you've previously stated that you've performed at the fair in gunfight re-enactments. i think i've got my list of suspects pretty well narrowed down. -M

edit: it is possible, spartan. and if that's the case, 'very dear' would not be appropriate given my behavior in highschool!

yep... my suspicions are confirmed. if memory serves (it's been over ten years), you are one of two who belong to the fraternity, phi zappa krappa. -M

Bingo. That's a superb memory.

Not to be rude, but that is a really bland strip mall in a city all ready full of them. In fact, I think that whole area of town is just unattractive.

240 Penn Park phase two is about to begin. I was over there yesterday and I noticed the road has been cut down to a two lane road on one side of the tree lined boulevard. Earthmoving machines are in place and it looks like construction will start this week.

http://www.pbodom.com/images/PROMO-SITE%20PLAN%205-06.pdf

i saw that, too while on i-240 yesterday and was wondering what was going in... i was kinda hoping that it would be some free-standing restaurants. oh well! -M

It was interesting to see on that .pdf that Hobby Lobby was listed as a tenant in the Phase I portion. Hobby Lobby in the same strip as a Michael's? Pretty interesting. Love to hear rumors about possible tenants in the new spot; have to believe they have at least one anchor signed up before they'd start building...

-soonerDave

i think the hobby lobby is actually mardels which is owned by hobby lobby

i think the hobby lobby is actually mardels which is owned by hobby lobby

DOH on me. Of course....hate it when my brain melts like that....

-soonerdave

Looks like the Don Pablo's restaurant at this location closed within the last couple of weeks. I wonder what they plan to do with that location.

This may have already been posted, but rumor also has it that part of the Walnut Creek shopping center on the west of Penn will be redone in the near future.