I agree that smoking isn't healthy and the bible wants us to keep our bodies pure. But there are people who are struggling with trying to quit but who haven't been able to yet. I don't believe those people are going to hell just because they have a cigarette. So let's talk about the high level of obesity among Christians. There is no difference between that and smoking or excessive drinking, is there?

Nope, no difference. I agree with where you're going.


As for the hypocricy in the church as a whole, I agree that it can be a problem. I'm glad you acknowledge that it is a problem with most churches, not just LC. Sad, but true.

Yup, I'd venture to say that is one of the biggest problems in the modern church. It turns a lot of people off, understandably.

Yes, hypocricy is a big problem in most churches. I even know some hypocritical people in my church. Unfortunately, many people use that as a crutch as to why they won't attend church. They say,"I'm not going to go to church because there are too many hypocrites there." What they have to realize is that, in the end, they have to answer for themselves, not for the hypocrites. That's why I don't let the hypocrites bother me. What they are doing is wrong, but I will not let it have any negative impact on my life.

As far as smoking goes, I don't believe it will send you to hell, however, it will make you smell like that you have been there already.

You are right about excessive smoking, eating, and drinking. All of them are habits that destroy the temple of God (your body)





I believe those that practice the hypocrisy will be held accountable as well. They're contributing to people not coming to Christ. Sure, in the end, it's the individual's choice whether to accept Christ or not, but attitudes of Christians can influence that. We're to be salt and light of the earth. It's hard to do that when we're judging people on one side, and living a double life on the other side.

Did anyone catch the announcement of the newest location. It was close to my original predictions. It will be in NW OKC, probably along the west portion of NW Expressway. The exact location should be announced in the next week or two.

Very well located to pick up more well-funded yuppie kids.

Has LifeChurch considered ministering to the kids who really need help? Maybe the Northeast side?

Very well located to pick up more well-funded yuppie kids.


You just can't help yourself, can you? It's really quite sad.

Does the truth hurt?

Which LifeChurch branch isn't located next to a concentration of wealthy white people?

Does the truth hurt?

Which LifeChurch branch isn't located next to a concentration of wealthy white people?

How about Tulsa, Stillwater and South Side? Do you know something about the demographics of those areas that I don't? Please enlighten us.

Don't know much about Tulsa, but Stillwater has its concentration of rich white kids (OSU students) who can donate plenty of mom and dad's money. My guess is that they make up the vast majority of the congregation. The Southwest part of Oklahoma City is affluent and is one of the fastest growing parts of town.

Geez Mid... pickin' on us pokes.. even those of us "white kids" who didn't live off of our parents' money, yet you lump us all together as if there weren't "wealthy" kids at any other universtiy... or as if there weren't people who didn't have the world on a silver platter studying at OSU! Don't you have anything better to do? The south side campus which is located within a mile of an inner city health clinic where the average income of the patient poplulation that it serves is less than minimum wage... which is a far cry from law school! And, I suppose that there are no wealthy catholics.... I used to think you were a pretty decent debater, if not at times misguided in your stance, but the cheap shots as of late meant to degrade that which you don't understand lead me to re-think said ability. You choose to believe rumors about the wealth of a church, but fail to realize that God can do anything He so chooses, and if that means spreading the gospel of Christ through a certain church then He will.... Why is it so easy for you to mock lc? Is it because you don't understand? Are you scared of what God's doing? Is it because it doesn't fit into the box that you've created for and tried to stuff God into?

OSU, I'll admit that my comments are partially to elicit an emotional response (they worked brilliantly). But seriously, LifeChurch does have buckets of money. Just today, I was discussing with an individual who knows of their document reproduction budget -- these guys have quite a bit invested in that -- far more than just the black and white copier you'd find at the 5000 family Catholic Churches I attended.. But that gets back to the glitz and glamour in exchange for substance debate...

If that's the part of South OKC I'm thinking about, I'm familiar with that Clinic. That's where I go to get my teeth cleaned.

I don't see LC as a thing of God's doing. I see it as more-less of an entertaining diversion for middle class white folks. As far as OSU kids, the same is true of any population of university students. Do you think that there are that many there that are paying their own way??? (I didn't make a blanket statement, just that there was a demographic that LC could tap into, thus the location of a branch in Stillwater rather than say.. Ardmore or Miami).

I used to think you were a pretty decent debater, if not at times misguided in your stance, but the cheap shots as of late meant to degrade that which you don't understand lead me to re-think said ability. You choose to believe rumors about the wealth of a church, but fail to realize that God can do anything He so chooses, and if that means spreading the gospel of Christ through a certain church then He will.... Why is it so easy for you to mock lc? Is it because you don't understand? Are you scared of what God's doing? Is it because it doesn't fit into the box that you've created for and tried to stuff God into?
You hit it right on the nose. If he doesn't agree with what you say, then he takes cheap shots. From what I've seen, he has always been like that. In my opinion, that's not debating. It's dodging the issue, because he doesn't understand. His mind is closed. LC is doing God's Will and is reaching people that a catholic church could never reach. Mock all you want, MidTowner, and keep making a fool of yourself.

I somewhat felt the same about Midtowner's philosophy, but now that Randy has taken that stance, I shall have to regroup and rethink my thoughts.

Actually, I get a good laugh each morning and night as I read :LolLolLol the inputs from those "in the know."

You hit it right on the nose. If he doesn't agree with what you say, then he takes cheap shots. From what I've seen, he has always been like that. In my opinion, that's not debating. It's dodging the issue, because he doesn't understand. His mind is closed. LC is doing God's Will and is reaching people that a catholic church could never reach. Mock all you want, MidTowner, and keep making a fool of yourself.

Of course you'll want to liberally construe the meaning of 'doing God's work.' I find that LC's mission is more secular and entertainment-based than worship-based.

I'm not taking pot shots, but I do disagree with you. If that makes you feel threatened, too bad.

so back to topic, does anyone besides Midtowner have any comments on the newest location?

so back to topic, does anyone besides Midtowner have any comments on the newest location?
I think it's great! It will allow people from the west side of OKC as well as El Reno, etc., better opportunity to attend without having to travel all the way to S.Side or N. Side. Most of the experiences at N. Side are packed out, so it will thin those out to allow for even more growth. I think it's a great choice!

"experiences"?

Of course you'll want to liberally construe the meaning of 'doing God's work.' I find that LC's mission is more secular and entertainment-based than worship-based.

I'm not taking pot shots, but I do disagree with you. If that makes you feel threatened, too bad.
:LolLolLol . I don't feel threatened by you in the least bit. As a matter of fact, I enjoy watching you make a fool of yourself on a daily basis. And yes, you do take cheap shots at everyone that disagrees with you.

BTW, Oki_Man, I can tell you that MidTowner is not in the know, he just wants you to think so. You are funny too. I take a stance and you want to take a stanch just opposite of me. That's cool. I've seen some of your posts, so you don't impress me at all.

Experiences=worship services. I should have known MidTowner would not know this one.

Not impressing Randy; I will take that as a compliment.

:LolLolLol . I don't feel threatened by you in the least bit. As a matter of fact, I enjoy watching you make a fool of yourself on a daily basis. And yes, you do take cheap shots at everyone that disagrees with you.

BTW, Oki_Man, I can tell you that MidTowner is not in the know, he just wants you to think so. You are funny too. I take a stance and you want to take a stanch just opposite of me. That's cool. I've seen some of your posts, so you don't impress me at all.

Experiences=worship services. I should have known MidTowner would not know this one.

Randy,

I will as usual forgive you for your personal attacks that are in violation of the rules of the TOS. You can discuss my ideas and objections to that sham you call a church, or you can just insult me personally, and in so doing violate rules which you agreed to.

I understand exactly what "experience" means. It just seems incredibly hokey to call it that.

When trying to show how much moreso than I that you are a 'man of God,' I would advise that next time you leave the attacks on my character out of your arsenal.

Randy,

I will as usual forgive you for your personal attacks that are in violation of the rules of the TOS. You can discuss my ideas and objections to that sham you call a church, or you can just insult me personally, and in so doing violate rules which you agreed to.

I understand exactly what "experience" means. It just seems incredibly hokey to call it that.

When trying to show how much moreso than I that you are a 'man of God,' I would advise that next time you leave the attacks on my character out of your arsenal.
I believe you need to look in the mirror at the one who is really breaking the TOS. I never said that I was more of a man of God than you are, I didn't have to, you proved it by your posts.

Calling LC a sham is uncalled for and very offensive (I believe that is a violation of the TOS) Hmmmmm. If I called your catholic church a sham, then you would be offended (I think).

Now, sir (I use this word very loosely), can we please get back to topic?

Interesting that you would say that. I urge you to read the FAQ as to what does and does not constitute a personal attack. You'll find that namecalling is while the questioning of another's beliefs and statements is not.

Interesting that you would say that. I urge you to read the FAQ as to what does and does not constitute a personal attack. You'll find that namecalling is while the questioning of another's beliefs and statements is not.

Mid, it looks to me like you need to look more closely at what people say. From what I saw in the quote you cited, Randy didn't call you a name. He said you were making a fool of yourself, but he didn't call you a fool. Calling you a fool is calling you a name. Saying that you make a fool of yourself is pointing out a behavioral problem. And I believe calling LC a sham is definitely calling it, and the people who belong to it who are the church, names. But that's okay, because we know that God is working through LC, and Satan hates that and will attack it with everthing he has.

Incidentally, the measure of whether or not a church is a sham is how they follow the Bible in their teachings. Where in Craig's preaching does he go against the Word of God? His sermons are all available to view on line (www.lifechurch.tv) if you want to watch them (since you refuse to visit the church personally). LC makes itself wide open to scrutiny. Soon you will even be able to watch the worship services live via the internet.

Okie, I think you need to read the FAQ as well. I'm training professionally to read and interpret rules, so I'll defer to my own judgment in this matter. Your indirect proposition requires an assumption that is not inherent in the rule, mentioned, or discussed. I can call your ideas ignorant, but I cannot call you ignorant (and I believe the use of that word is verboten anyhow).

As to your standard, I summarily reject it. That may be your standard. Many people in the protestant churches follow that standard as well. It is not so iron-clad as what one might think. In the Bible, there is ambiguity on some rules. For example, many churches advocate speaking out against gays when they are supposed to love the sinner and hate the sin. Others do the opposite... who is right?

My church generally follows the Bible, but we do not worship it. It is not divine, nor is it perfect.

So basically, Mid, what you're saying is that since you hold a different standard you won't even take the time to see what Craig's preaching is all about, even though it doesn't involve entering the church. So you're calling LC a sham without any direct knowledge or observation of it. That sure is being open minded.

Enough with the argumentative. Mods can we get this forum back to topic please!!!!!!!!!!

Enough with the argumentative. Mods can we get this forum back to topic please!!!!!!!!!!
Exactly. Let's get this thread back on topic......without the arguments.

Thank you Keith.

I'm not particularly a fan of packaged Christianity... especially the MegaChurch package. I personally find Church Marketing offensive and not at all Biblical but that is my personal opinion.

LifeChurch.TV was some great people, many friends that attend... but I would not worship there for reasons that I won't post on an interent message board.

Thanks for your honesty mwmcl, others including myself would prefer not to worship at most small churches. its good that we can agree to disagree and co-exist peacefully though

metro, not 4 posts ago (maybe I'm miscounting) you were pleading for this thread to remain on topic. Then, you post something off topic :)

I just thought I'd point that out.

Continue please.

metro, not 4 posts ago (maybe I'm miscounting) you were pleading for this thread to remain on topic. Then, you post something off topic :)

I just thought I'd point that out.

Continue please.

For some reason, metro has a history on here of correcting other people. It's a tad bit annoying. metro, if you have a problem with someone's post, contact a moderator.

Jack and Midtowner. I apologize if you were offended. As you know the topic was way out of proportion, in fact going into personal attacks such as Jack just exemplified towards me as well. Which is against the TOS of this site. I merely commented on the persons comments about Lifechurch being a megachurch and I stated that many of us megachurch attendees would not attend a small church for the same reasons, hence I didn't think it was that off topic. Anyhow, again I apologize for getting off topic and offending Midtowner and Jack. Please forgive me as this thread is obviously about Lifechurch.tv a megachurch.

Speaking of LIFECHURCH.TV, did Craig announce the exact location of the newest campus in NW OKC?? I was unable to attend this past weekend and will have to watch the service online although the promo's and such like this usually aren't on the online version so I was just curious if anyone knew.

metro, if you feel as if someone is personally attacking you, I implore you, report them.

As far as the megachurch thing goes, if you don't think it was off topic, how are you going to at the same time say that anything I've posted on this topic has been off topic? If you belong to a megachurch and read the Bible a lot, maybe you will know this. Is there anything in the Bible about double standards?

Here's an on-topic question... how do Life-Churchers make nicey-nice with Jesus' very own dislike for moneychangers in the temple when you yourselves are operating a gift shop?

Here's an on-topic question... how do Life-Churchers make nicey-nice with Jesus' very own dislike for moneychangers in the temple when you yourselves are operating a gift shop?

Midtowner, we covered this topic way back about mid-thread. Do you really want to rehash it again?

Speaking of LIFECHURCH.TV, did Craig announce the exact location of the newest campus in NW OKC?? I was unable to attend this past weekend and will have to watch the service online although the promo's and such like this usually aren't on the online version so I was just curious if anyone knew.

He didn't give the exact location. I've heard rumors, but they are unsubstantiated and therefore will not be revealed here. I Can't wait to hear, though.

"newest campus in NW OKC??"

I still can't understand a church being called a "campus." It's all part of this newfangled "Big Box" approach to Christianity. I guess "Northwest location" would not have sounded hip enough for this new branding and marketing of the poor, homeless carpenter. And another thing (since I'm grouchy on this gloomy day), I am tired of this Craig guy being so all-powerful. Self-appointed, I might add. It seems cultish to me. Of course, it's proving to be very profitable for Craig-The-Great.

"newest campus in NW OKC??"

I still can't understand a church being called a "campus." It's all part of this newfangled "Big Box" approach to Christianity. I guess "Northwest location" would not have sounded hip enough for this new branding and marketing of the poor, homeless carpenter. And another thing (since I'm grouchy on this gloomy day), I am tired of this Craig guy being so all-powerful. Self-appointed, I might add. It seems cultish to me. Of course, it's proving to be very profitable for Craig-The-Great.

I encourage you to check it out sometime. If it isn't for you, that's fine. If you decide to keep coming, then even better. We'd be happy to have you.

Midtowner, we covered this topic way back about mid-thread. Do you really want to rehash it again?
No, let's not rehash it. I think if everybody would go back to the beginning of this thread, and start reading the posts, I believe your questions will have already been answered. No reason in debating it all over again, because I really don't believe anybody's opinions have changed since this thread has started.

OkieBear....I am sending you an e-mail.

[quote=writerranger]

I still can't understand a church being called a "campus." It's all part of this newfangled "Big Box" approach to Christianity. quote]

If it was Christianity in a "box", then wouldn't everyone be happy with it... because that's just what most people try to do.. worship God in one specific way because that's the way they think He is and that's the way they think He should be talked about/worshipped. I think that God is way beyond the four walls of any building, and if we truly seek Him for who He is, then He will reveal Himself to us... whether you are in a church, a bar, your car or just running around outside. It's all an attitude of the heart, not where you worship or how you worship... it's all between you and your Creator, God.

I don't think I suggested that they were corrupt.

And yes, churches do change for the times... I mean the Catholic church back in the 60's actually started doing mass in the vernacular (it used to be done in Latin). We aso invented church corruption, but no matter :)

I don't question the motives of Mr. Groeschel, but I do question the hearts of the attendees of the church. Do they feel as if they must be entertained in order to attend a praise & worship service? A friend of mine in college worked at Life Church as a full time video editor.. All I'm saying is that personally, I think that it leads Christians away from the true message of Christianity -- forgiveness, love, etc. and instead turns the religion into a spectacle/social event.

I am a regular attendee of LifeChurch SOKC and serve weekly in LifeKids. Questioning the HEARTS of the attendees at Life? You should take to heart the words you spoke about forgiveness, love, etc. I was raised Catholic and since going to Life, have found the meaning of christianity and have found a relationship with God. Every single person, including yourself, has the right to worship and praise in their own way.

Patrick, I think I agree with virtually every comment you made in this thread. Especially about mature believers may not be able to stay at LC too long, because they never dive deep into Scripture.

I do dissagree with one thing, though. Henderson Hills has not cheapened baptism with the special service. We had another one last weekend. People are invited to come-- IT IS NOT PRIVATE. There is NOTHING private about it. But, there are not 2,000 people there, either. Some people are terrified being in front of large crowds; some people are scared of water. There were still about 200 people there (mostly family members and small group friends of those being baptized). That would be large crowd in many churches. In addition, they showed each and every one of those baptisms this Saturday and Sunday during worship.

Did anyone catch the news this week that LifeChurch.tv has finally secured its NW OKC lease. They will be occupying the empty space in the Incredible Pizza building on NW Expressway. This is exciting news and much less of a drive for me. Also next week they plan on announcing another location (10th) and it will be out of state. My guess is New Orleans based on the hints I've seen but I could be wrong. I guess we'll have to go to church next week and find out.

Out of state?

So now they're into franchising?

No, they are not into franchising. They have several out of state campuses already. They are into saving lost lives across geographical borders. Jesus didn't come to save just Oklahoma but everyone. We all know your not big on lifechurch.tv Midtowner so give it a rest already, it's getting old, find something more productive to do. I don't know about the Bible you read but my Bible doesn't mention Heaven being segregated by any denominations, faiths, beliefs, viewpoints, etc.

lol.. so you want me to shut up while you promote this farce of a church? Not a chance.

No but all I'm saying is that we'll have to agree to disagree, obviously your not going to agree with the consensus on this particular topic.

So if I want to call it franchising, I reserve the right to do so. That's essentially what it is. It expands the customer base for book sales, tithes, etc.

They are into saving lost lives across geographical borders.

http://www.doctorswithoutborders.com/ ? :confused:

:)

Yes, and so is docters without borders, can't we all just serve one another?

Selling faith at such a high markup isn't exactly serving anyone.

How much of Lifechurch's revenue is used towards philanthropic activities? Any at all?

Mid.. have you been to new orleans, lately? LC tries to go there at least once a month to serve the people there (who incidently still have next to nothing). Have you been to the local downtown mission to serve food to the homeless or work in the food pantry? Have you been to Honduras to take medicine to people who are sick and have no doctor? It's not a question of "philanthropic activities", but a matter of spreading God's love through service.

No, I haven't. Betcha my church spends more on those places than yours though ;)

-- and how much of the money for those trips came from church funds? Most likely from separate fundraising, right?

osupa, did you catch the announcement on the new location this past weekend. Unfortunately I was unable to attend so I missed it. Also if you have an update on the new NW OKC campus it would be appreciated.

honestly, there are several things about lifechurch and similar congregations that make me feel uncomfortable. however, i don't believe that the argument 'my church gives more than your church' is productive to the discussion. despite the problems i have with lifechurch, i do think that many of its members are good people who are generous with their giving and with their service. personally, i believe that it is a far greater thing to give of your time than to simply give with your money... but that's a different discussion.

that said, i'd have to agree with the comment that lifechurch is a 'franchise.' franchises exist so that consumers know what to expect before they walk in the door. i can expect the same experience at mcdonald's regardless if i dine in edmond or in south okc. just the same, i can expect the same experience at lifechurch whether or not i go to edmond or to south okc... in fact, since the message is sent via video, i can expect practically the same experience. just as any franchise, lifechurch strongly maintains a brand identity. just as mcdonald's differentiates itself from other fast food chains, lifechurch differentiates itself from other churches... even others of similar faith. it's logotype and advertising are consistent across multiple media and campaigns to reinforce the lifechurch brand. as much as mcdonald's uses franchising to better market fast food, lifechurch uses franchising to better market god.

i have two major gripes with lifechurch. first, i find it highly suspect when those on senior staff of a church are paid large sums of money. of lifechurch's senior staff, not one lives in a home that is less than 3000 square feet. in the far north okc/edmond market that translates to a house that is $300,000+. scripture tells us that 'the laborer is worthy of his hire', but it leaves a bad taste in my mouth when money that is put into a collection plate and given to god is used so that a small group of people can live a lavish lifestyle.

my second gripe is more with church's that are like lifechurch and not just with lifechurch itself. to me, the services seem to focus more on entertainment. most feature flashy sets and lighting and a full rock band. without a doubt, people attend these churches because they feel that a traditional service is too boring. in essence, people go to be entertained... regardless of what they may say. in fact, lifechurch and others use the word 'experience' instead of 'worship service.' to me, their choice of words is telling. an experience is something that you witness... a tv show, a concert... those who go are spectators, not participants. the focus easily becomes, what can i get rather than what can i give.

honestly, i'm not trying to bash somebody else's faith or their congregation... i'm just concerned about the values that these places espouse and what they teach by word and example. -M

So are you saying you put your God in a box on how he chooses to work in others? God must conform to your beliefs and ideals or else it is wrong? Is that not the same principal you are judging lifechurch.tv and others like it? The God I serve is not to small to do anything. If he chooses non-traditional means so be it, after all, church is not about pleasing one self, but worshiping God. If a person has to use non-traditional means to bring in people that otherwise would not be in church and perhaps at a place exactly opposite of church, who are we to judge? More "traditional" churches don't operate like churches did 500, 1000, or 2000 years ago, so how is that any different? They changed with the times, just like Lifechurch.tv has done. Can you blame them for being one of the few to adapt over the last century?Old songs use to be chants, most "traditional" or "old-fashioned" churches I know dont do chants or monotone songs. If we were all the same and worshipped God the same, there would be no need for us, thus the whole principal of free will, that is what is beautiful to God because we are all unique and can worship him differently despite humanly differences right? A hymnal to one might be entertaining or "pleasing" while the same can be said about a more "rock band feel" although I think they are more slow and contemporary, nothing near what their "high-octane" experience used to be or some other churches who actually play rock. Obviously we believe in the same "Christian" God which is really the important thing if you think about it. If God didn't agree with lifechurch or thought it was wrong, is there not 1000000 ways he could strike it down or make it dissolve? The God I serve could strike it down an infinite times faster than it grew to its current state. For the sake of peace can we all agree to disagree on this issue.

of course we can agree to disagree, that's understood... however, that doesn't mean that there isn't a place for intellectual debate on the subject. as i had stated earlier, i'm concerned... i'm just not so sure that churches like lifechurch foster a relationship with god that is on his terms.

i believe that people must conform to christ or else they are wrong. i believe that the only way to do this is by studying and obeying what is found in scripture. it's therefore not a matter of somebody conforming to my beliefs and preferences, it's a matter of conforming to god's will. therefore, it's not my aim to judge lifechurch and its ilk by my standards, but by scriptural standards.

while my personal preferences lie with more traditional forms of worship, it's not a matter of 'traditional' versus 'contemporary' that i base my argument and it's not simply about what i prefer. of course, the church has changed over time. the forms of worship that are currently considered traditional were at some point considered contemporary.

the problem i have is with the attitude of worship. there's nothing wrong with worship being entertaining, but we don't worship because it's entertaining. i honestly think that so-called 'contemporary' worship creates spectators out of people who should be actively worshipping. they're there to watch a show and to get recharged. many are there to get rather than to give. if the band didn't play well and if the singers didn't sing well, then many of these people would stop attending.

given your logic, we should just change our laws so that they force people to be in church. wouldn't that be a non-traditional way of 'bringing people in?' who would you be to judge that? whether you force people to go to church or use a gimmick to get them to come, it doesn't do any good if their heart isn't in it. sure, lifechurch encourages alot of people... but i'm not sure that it encourages people to obey and respect god.

of course god could strike down lifechurch if it were his will. he could also strike down islam, hinduism, budhism and any other errant teaching. lifechurch's success does not necessarily indicate god's approval. i believe that churches such as lifechurch are appealing to people, which explains their success. it's not wrong wrong for a church to appeal to people, however i don't believe that churches that focus on apealling to people are appealing to god.

agree to disagree... no offense, but it's just an excuse to back away from an argument you can't defend. -M

Agree to Disagree. Yes I can defend, it's a matter if you agree, just like you can defend and I don't agree. So anyways back to topic (now ignoring lifechurch skeptics as it gets us nowhere) osupa or anyone else, any word on the NW OKC Campus or the other out of state campus?

Hi everyone! I have to say it has been a while since I have revisted this thread. When I started the thread I was generally asking people's opinions of Life Church because my family was looking for a church to attend near our new home. I am happy to say that this last Sunday we FINALLY went to Life Church. I am also pleased to say that we loved it there. My children had a great time. It wasn't just all play for them because my oldest told me what he had learned about King David. Honestly, I don't understand how anyone can criticize Life Church's mission. They are reaching out to thousands of people and helping them become better followers of Christ. Why do people on here feel the need to criticize their mission? What is it that they have done so wrong?

By the way the 10th location is in either Nashville or Memphis. I can't remember which one of the two it was.

okcgoddess, glad to hear your family enjoyed it and felt like you fit in. Also on a side note I learned the new campus will be in Nashville.

To continue the discussion that's ongoing here, I'd like to pose a question: if LifeChurch.tv suddenly stopped offering the band at it's services, the coffee shop, the light shows, etc, would those coming now keep coming? If the answer is no, then that tells us they're simply there to be entertained, and not to worship God.

Why do we need a $250,000 light system to worship God? Why do we need a $350,000 sound system to worship God?

I'm not against contemporary worship, but I question whether people are being solely entertained or are growing in faith. It's extremely hard to grow deep in the faith when one is so fixated on the next light show, or the sound of the new drum set, or the beat of the rhythm. It's easy for one to become lost in all of the hubub.

I've found in my life that the times I grow most are in fact the quiet times I spend with God, on my knees crying out to Him, and reading His word. The rest is simply going through the religious motions.

I think LifeChurch.tv is making a huge mistake by watering down their services, taking their focus away from discipleship and more on entertainment. The way to really reach people is not through cool lights, great sounds, etc. It's by working with them one on one in personal Bible Study. Sure, LifeChurch.tv has Life Groups, but unlike most churches, they've really lost that sense of discipleship without having Sunday Bible Study Classes and the like.

Now, from my own personal experience. My father-in-law is one of the older members of LifeChurch.tv and has been going there for several years. He is currently awaiting a liver transplant. We wanted to host a benefit concert for him at one of the campuses and we were denied. The church told us that if they allowed us to use their facility, they'd have to let everyone use their facility for charitable means. Last I checked, isn't the whole purpose of the building to serve your members and to serve the community around you. But, we might've interrupted their rock show or hurt one of their precious spot lights. Oh my.

I think LifeChurch.tv is more focused on putting on a good show than actually serving.

Sure, they may be serving those in New Orleans, but I think it's pretty sad they can do that but can't even serve one of their own members whose paying the light bills.