They tape from the main OKC campus on NW 178th and Penn. You can catch him live usually on Saturdays at 5:30pm or on Sundays at the 11:30am services. He's not always there though, some of them he tapes before the service if he has to go out of town or whatnot. This coming weekend is the last of the "At the movies" series so I'm not sure he will be there. There is a brand new series starting next weekend so he should be there then (august 11th and 12th)

Also, if the senior pastor Craig Grochel doesn't do the teaching, sometimes another campus or associate campus pastor or the occassional invited pastor/guest will do a sermon or teaching. The live tapings are always done from the main OKC campus at NW 178th (2nd in Edmond) and Penn regardless of who is doing the preaching.

metro, i couldn't remember the name of the new series...do you remember what it is?

30 days to live. also to answer your question from another thread, they did comment/announce and email about the Greensburg, Kansas tornado mission trip as well as the one in the western part of the OKC metro. I'll see if I still have those old emails. Since they do a weekly update email, I usually delete the old ones.

kmf, I found the email about the mission trip to west okc. I'll post it below. I'm pretty sure I deleted the one about the Greensburg, KS tornado mission trips since I get at least one church email a week, I usually delete them to keep my inbox clean. If I find it, I'll post it for you.

Last week several homes along Morgan Road were heavily damaged due to the tornado that touched down. One neighbor’s home lost a roof and another had his barn completely leveled. Both homes have debris scattered all over their property.

What if people from NW OKC LifeChurch.tv showed up on Monday afternoon with a group of 50 plus people and just started filling trash bags and piling debris to help the owners clean up. What if during that time some prayed with the owners, spoke a work of encouragement, or brought a meal? What if God’s love for them was shown in simple acts of kindness? Would you want to see how God would change their lives and even that neighborhood? I would!

I spoke today to John, the man whose barn was destroyed, walked his property with him and asked him if we could come. He was nearly speechless…when he did speak it was “Yes! That would be great!”

The NW OKC staff will be there! Won’t you talk with your group tonight or call them tomorrow and join us. If you want to come please call me at $@#-#@#$.

Directions and Details: THIS IS TOMORROW NIGHT, MONDAY, APRIL 2, 2007

Location: From NW Campus take NW Expressway West go under the Kilpatrick Turnpike Bridge and continue on NW Expressway a short distance to the next light which is Morgan Road. Turn right and go North. cross NW 122nd (no sign, but only crossroad) until you see the home with no roof. Park next door at !@#$%Morgan Road.

Time: Meet at the residence (see map below) beginning at 4:30 p.m. we will work until dark (around 7:30 p.m.)

What to bring: work gloves, yard trash bags, rakes, shovels, and wheelbarrows (if you have them)…bring your kids but you will need to have them under supervision since it is messy. We will provide the water!

The news was there to cover the damage, let’s be the one’s to clean up the mess. Whoever finds God finds life!

Jim Meldrim
NW OKC LifeGroups and Missions Pastor

ahhh, I didn't get that email because I don't go to the NW campus. I go to the main campus. We never received anything like that. But I'm glad to hear that campus gets involved with helping the community. I know our campus does things with Habitat for Humanity about once a month or so, but that's the only thing I know of. Thanks for sharing!

if you go to the main campus, your campus does more than any other campus, they have weekly projects usually with the Food Bank, Habitat for Humanity, New Orleans relief, and of course the church's Mercy Ministries (daily near downtown OKC feeding the homeless, educating them, giving them clothes and household items, praying for and helping them) and many other projects on top of the out of state and out of country missions projects.

my campus (NW) has also adopted Tulakes elementary which has the highest number of kids coming and going in the entire state. It also is a high poverty school. We had sign up sheets to purchase all 600 students of the school's school supplies for this year as well as we bought them all new backpacks. we're going to deliver them next week. I hope it will make their day and help their parents out financially and spiritually.

kmf and anyone else interested, I found out yesterday that lifechurch.tv (all metro area campuses) will be doing a giant micro-mission in downtown OKC on Sept. 15th. It will be geared towards working with the homeless as well as low-income people who ride the Metro Transit busses. Right now, I don't know much more about it but I'm told we'll be hearing alot more information about it. They are expecting about 3,000 in attendance I believe.

Lots of interesting talk about LifeChurch here - almost all good.

In 1980, David B. Barrett, writing in the Dictionary of Christianity in America identified 20,800 Christian denominations worldwide . At that time, he classified Protestant denominations into seven major blocs and 156 ecclesiastical traditions. That number has since been estimated upwards of 30,000. My question? Which one of these (Life Church, Crossings and others among them) is THE true church - the one Matthew referred to in his Gospel, Chapter 16, Verse 18: "And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it"?

Which one of these (Life Church, Crossings and others among them) is THE true church - the one Matthew referred to in his Gospel, Chapter 16, Verse 18: "And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it"?

Or what was later modeled in the book of Acts and the other letters to the churches.

I see LifeChurch now has a facebook application.

Yeah, I read about that on Craig's blog. They are also working on an iPhone interface as well as an interactive online bible called YouVersion.

The homeless mission project was postponed due to some holdups with the city in obtaining permits, etc. however from the church bulletin I read that they are working with city leaders and the Homeless Alliance in obtaining necessary permits and such to make it an even better event. I'll post something when I hear more.

kmf did you attend the OKC vision meeting at the OKC campus last Thursday night? It was excellent. Pastor Chris Spradlin and Craig talked about the vision for the OKC campus as well as the church as a whole. Awesome stuff. They not only talked about where the church is headed, new campuses (including international ones), but also about the hundreds and thousands of churches who use our free content each week as well as the churches it is inspiring to start giving away their content away for free.

No, I planned on attending but I have a pre-teen son. Need I say more?? haha. He came home with one of those "mom, I have a project due tomorrow things." So yeah, I missed the meeting. But I wondered how it went and also about this weekend. Let us know if you hear when the mission is re-scheduled for. I need to go online and find a new lifegroup also. Mine has switched nights and I am unable to attend.

Church purchases former Dillard's building in Midwest City
By Pamela Grady - 12/4/2007
OKC Business

Edmond-based Life Covenant Church Inc. purchased the former Dillard’s building at Heritage Park Mall in Midwest City from Oklahoma City-based Midland Capital LLC and CMSM LLC for $1.5 million.

The one-story 99,828-square-foot building sits on 8.13 acres with 400 parking spaces.

Fred Mazaheri, with Midland Capital LLC said the property has been vacant since big-box retailer Dillard’s moved out in mid-2006 and said he hopes to see new activity at the mall as a result of the Dillard’s building being purchased.

“In a struggling mall, Life Church will bring some life and a user to real estate that might have sat vacant for quite some time,” Mark Inman said.

Moving forward, whether the church plans to leave the inside mall opening to the Dillard’s building open or not is still up in the air.

“It’ll be more of a function on how the church elects to use the building,” Louis Almaraz said. “I don’t know if the opening (to the inside of the mall) that’s there will be used or closed off.”

Almaraz adds anything that brings activity to the mall will only benefit the mall, he said.

“The mall -- through our efforts -- is still trying to find junior anchors to solidify the mall,” Almaraz explained. “Leasing is still on going and Christmas sales, I understand, are good. It is still a viable mall, the dynamics and the use of certain parts of it may change during a certain time, but I think the church will enhance those activities.”

Heritage Park Mall Property Manager Sharon Banta, who works for mall owner Heritage Park LLC-based out of California, had not yet been notified of the sale since the Dillard’s building is owned by a separate entity, but she said she’s glad to hear the property has been sold since the mall’s occupancy was at 60 percent at time of sale.

Mark Inman with CB Richard Ellis/Oklahoma and Louis and Michael Almaraz of Grubb & Ellis|Levy Beffort handled the sale. Kimberleigh Toci with First American Title & Trust out of San Francisco handled the closing and Bank of the West handled the financing.

Lifemall.tv

Don't worry Mid, lifechurch.tv Europe is coming soon, seriously!

Oh wow.

Were several pages of this thread deleted??

No, not that I know of. If you are looking for the thread that was up yesterday... search Life Church - it's all there.

i don't know of anything deleted, either. -M

Oh sorry I'm getting confused with the other thread in which the LC debate is raging.

Join the club.. I'm in a constant state of confusion, lol... (but I knew you probably got the two confused). If you search Life Church, it's the second one you'll come to.

kmf, I'm posting this for you. Here is a link to Craig and Bobby's blog. Aranda played for the church leadership (all campuses) this last week.

Thursday at the December Event at LifeChurch.tv : swerve (http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/12/07/thursday-at-the-december-event/)

Yeah, Dameon told me they were doing that again. They played last year also.

Last weekend he and Bruss lead worship at the main campus. It wasn't as bold and bright as they historically have been...but it was still the two of them together again and it was nice to see Bruss's big happy smile.

Dameon said he played switch on the southside last week also, not sure who else was there with him.

I'm getting excited about the Christmas worship weekend! It's always something memorable. Last year the main campus had a couple of kids join with their snares and they did an amazing performance of The Little Drummer Boy. Stephen cole even banged a couple of drums. They were everywhere! And Craig always gives such a heartfelt sermon. I love it.

Agreed, while our church doesn't do the big Christmas productions or plays, it is always warm and sincere and to the point. The Little Drummer Boy last year was awesome, it reminded me of the blue man group or Stomp.

kmf, I was on YouTube tonight and I found a video of the Drummer Boy performance from the Edmond campus, it was pretty sweet to although Stephen Cole is the man and rocks out a little more. I'll see if I can find the N. OKC video as well. Even if you aren't lifechurch.tv fans, check out the video its' pretty cool (definitely not your grandma's church, no harm intended).

YouTube - The Little Drummer Boy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryqA90QxU3k)

As many of you know, the COX CONVENTION CENTER is serving as a shelter for ice storm victims. Our church is helping recruit and organize some volunteers to help out with the kids staying there. You do not have to be a member of our church or even a "churchy" person. If you feel called or able to help out, and you are good working with children, please go! They are in despirate need of childcare volunteers, and P. E. teachers who would be willing to go down there and organize some games or activities for the kids. Please feel free to forward this to as many people as you can. You do not need to be a certified childcare provider, but you do need to contact Annie at the Red Cross, 228-9500 for the proper background checks. Thank you!

Oh I just watched that video you posted! yay. One of those drummers is the Mike Walker - he's the drummer for Aranda.

Yeah, I want to see the video from last year with Stephen Cole. Better yet...I want to see the video from years ago with Brian Bruss. Find that and I will love you forever.

Yeah, I'll have to see if I can find some Brian Brus videos. I have some of his CD stuff when he used to be at OKC when he did high octane. On another note, LC.TV is making the full transition to high-definition (HD) video and broadcasting this week, I think it is supposed to be implemented by this weekend.

For those of you who don't think LC.TV could survive without Pastor Craig, one of our campus pastors (an Australian guy, that is funny and still has some cultural shock) spoke this past weekend. It was a great message. Perhaps he can one day start campuses in Australia if God is willing. If you have 25-30 minutes to watch it, I encourage you to do so. At the very least, you'll be able to take something out of it and apply it to your life.

Webcasts | LifeChurch.tv (http://www.lifechurch.tv/Default.aspx/p/39?SermonID=128&CategoryID=2)

New Internet Experience at 9am GMT


February 14, 2008 in LifeChurch.tv and global church.

In recent months, we have seen more and more people connecting with our Internet campus from countries around the world. All of this is inspite of the fact that we are still very US-centric in the experience times that we offer. So, now we are taking a first step in expanding the options that we have available. Beginning this Sunday, we’ll be launching an Internet Campus experience complete with worship, teaching and community at 9:00am GMT (For those of you in the United States wondering when 9:00 a.m. GMT is, it’s 3:00 a.m. CST.) This will provide a much more attractive experience time to people in Europe, Africa and Western Asia. To help you, here is a list of times that this experience will happen in major international cities:

9:00 am: Dublin and London

10:00 am: Berlin and Paris

11:00 am: Cape Town and Athens

12:00 pm: Baghdad and Moscow

If you have family and friends that live in Europe, Asia or Africa, please invite them to join this new experience!

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Join the EuroTime LifeGtoup at 7:30pm GMT tomorrow (Thursday) - that's 11:30am SLT - for our first meeting as we study the Hostage series and we discover how to truly break free, once and for all, from the ties that bind.

This LifeGroup is timed to welcome LifeChurch.tv partners from around Europe and beyond. Don't forget the Internet Campus' ALL NEW 9am GMT service on Sunday too!

Metro...You need to talk to Craig and make sure he endorses the March 4th vote in his sermons

Need all the help we can get :tiphat:

Hehe, sure wouldn't hurt anything (at least for us OKC voters).

I for one was fairly critical of LifeChurch.tv over the many months this thread has been in existence.

I'll state publicly that I have softened my stance a bit. I've developed an appreciation for some of the differences that LifeChurch.tv has. All people groups do things differently and it is perhaps unfair for me to be as harsh as I have been in my criticism of LifeChurch.tv.

Not that anyone has won or lost, or that I somehow held an important opinion in anyone's eyes. I just felt it necessary to publicly correct myself after some of the things I've posted on this board and specifically this thread. That is all.

And no, I am not now attending LifeChurch.tv or anything like that. Although if someone wants to toss me a free T-shirt or coffee mug, I'd be much obliged.

Haha, how about a Craig Groeschel action figure?

Haha, j/k. ;) couldn't resist.

Very respectable mwmcl. Thanks for posting. I don't have any cups or shirts to throw at you, but I do have some worship music and a 10 year anniversary dvd of the most popular sermons you can have.

I'd be happy to toss some LC.tv stuff you're way as well mcmcl, I don't have any new t-shirts, but I have some good condition, barely worn in lc.tv shirts (clean and washed of course). I also have the Christmas 2007 DVD and probably some other stuff, I'd be glad to give you.

Oh, and not that we were expecting an apology or anything, but it does take guts to publically correct yourself! I applaude you for taking guts when your conscience tells you to!

mwmcl...
it takes a big person to admit to changing/softening their stance on an issue. kudos to you. -M

Pastor Craig is speaking at a conference with Colin Powell this week. I thought our OKC assistant pastor did awesome in speaking today, he's an Aussie. Powerful stuff. Hopefully he'll be able to help launch Australian campuses some day.

Please keep in mind this was worded primarily for people in ministry, but I thought I would share for those interested.



http://assets.lifechurch.tv/img/shared/one-prayer_header.jpg

Big Announcement: One Prayer
My name is Craig Groeschel and I'm the senior pastor of LifeChurch.tv. I want to share with you an idea that I'm very excited about.

We are going to partner with hundreds of other churches to do a series together called One Prayer. The series will begin on the weekend of June 7-8 and run for a total of four weeks. The premise of the series is: "If God would answer 'one prayer' for the church at large, what would you pray?" This series serves several purposes. Specifically, we believe it will...

Promote unity in the body of Christ.
Expose our churches to other great teachers and ministries.
Empower churches to experiment with video teaching.
Infuse spiritual passion into a typically challenging month.
Give the senior pastor a three-week break from teaching.
Raise money for a mission project.
Teach our people to fast, pray, and seek God in concert with thousands of other believers.

Participate in the larger work of God in His church.
"One Prayer" is designed to be flexible enough to serve the mission and schedule of each local church. Most churches will likely participate for the entire four-week series. However, other churches may choose to do it for fewer than four weeks-or even for more-depending upon the heartbeat of the church.

These are the general concepts:

You will teach one week of the series, expressing what your "One Prayer" would be. Please title your sermon with the words, "Make us _________." (Fill in the blank to complete your prayer to God.)
You will have the opportunity to show free video messages from world-class preachers. Each message will be available in advance for you to preview. Most churches will choose three other video teachers.
You will receive an offering and combine it with hundreds of other churches to help people in need.

You will mobilize your church to do something ministry-related in your local community. (If other churches in your town are participating, please try to work with them.)

You will promote the unified website (to be announced) that will encourage your people to fast and pray with other believers.
You will receive free resources online (including graphics, mailer templates, video promos, banners and other promotional tools).
LifeChurch.tv will use the following teachers:

LifeChurch.tv (Craig Groeschel) will teach "Make Us One."
Fellowship Church (Ed Young) will teach "Make Us Creative."
NewSpring Church (Perry Noble) will teach "Make Us Dangerous."
Free Chapel (Jentezen Franklin) will teach "Make Us Passionate."

You can choose any of the teachers listed above. Several other amazing communicators will be pre-producing video sermons, which will also be available for your use. (All of their churches will be participating in the series.) Some of these pastors include:

Celebration Church (Stovall Weems) - Jacksonville, FL
Champions Centre (Kevin Gerald) - Tacoma, WA
Church of the Highlands (Chris Hodges) - Birmingham, AL
Commonground Church (Tom Dillingham) - Tulsa, OK
Crossings Community Church (Marty Grubbs) - Oklahoma City, OK
Elevation Church (Steven Furtick) - Indian Trail, NC
Genesis Church (Brian Hunter) - Tallahassee, FL
Granger Community Church (Mark Beeson) - Granger, IN
Healing Place Church (Dino Rizzo) - Baton Rouge, LA
Journey Church (Clark Mitchell) - Norman, OK
Lake Hills Church (Mac Richard) - Austin, TX
Leadership & Church Consultant (Sam Chand)
National Community Church (Mark Batterson) - Washington, DC
New Hope Christian Fellowship (Wayne Cordeiro) - Honolulu, HI
New Life Church (Rick Bezet) - Conway, AR
NewChurch (Monty Priest) - Oklahoma City, OK
NewSong Church (Dave Gibbons) - Irvine, CA
North Coast Church (Larry Osborne) - Vista, CA
NorthChurch.tv (Rodney Fouts) - Oklahoma City, OK
NorthwayChurch.tv (Buddy Cremeans) - Malta, NY
Seacoast Church (Greg Surratt) - Mt. Pleasant, SC
The Church at South Las Vegas (Benny Perez) - Las Vegas, NV
VictoryChurch.tv (Mark Crow) - Oklahoma City, OK

Many other great speakers are meeting with their teams and planning to participate in the series, as well. They will be confirming next week.

LifeChurch.tv - One Prayer (http://www.lifechurch.tv/one-prayer)

This is really going to be an awesome event for the body of Christ as a whole. Churches have already committed to teaching and joining in many countries including the U.K., Australia, China, Canada, and Rwanda that I know of.

The site officially launched today:

One Prayer (http://www.oneprayer.com/)


It's time for the body of Christ to united as ONE church for one cause. It's exciting to already see over 150 churches from 8 countries on 3 continents uniting for a greater purpose. I can't wait to see what unfolds come June 7th.

What would you pray if God would answer One Prayer for the Church at large?

I think it's more based on the bringing Jesus our firstfruits (the best of the crop) verse... giving Him the best we have to offer... Yes, I believe he accepts us for who we are... we are all dirty (in every sense of the word), yet as Christians we have been washed clean by His blood.

If jesus is your example, then why not grow your hair out, grow a beard and wear a robe? Jesus had no money, according to the bible. This puts him in a category equal to most of the homeless people you want so desperately to move out of your little "urban living" area. Christians are the biggest hypocrites in the world today. Well, politicians are pretty close. All forms of religion eventually turn people against each other and has caused great human suffering in the world.

Religion in all forms is a danger to the world. If you pray to help someone heal and believe that jesus works miracles and cares about you, then why seek a human's medical advice? Put your money where your mouth is and find out for yourself. You won't do it. You will pray and get the best medical treatment you can because when it comes right down to it, you don't really believe that jesus will do it. That way you get it both ways, don't you? Pray a pious prayer and then hike to the hospital.

Why do you religious people have to have some type of god in order to make you do whats right for others in this world? Whay can't you just do it yourself?

What would you pray if God would answer One Prayer for the Church at large?

Perfect example. Why doesn't god answer all your prayers if he cares so much?

Do you realize how ridiculous it sounds to rational people to think that there is a god up there who loves you so much, but you can't even figure out which prayer he will answer? This is the biggest fairy tale on earth. god gives you a bible full of contradictions and then people spend their entire lives trying to figure out what he really said and meant. I wouldn't treat my kids that way I don't treat the mentally-ill homeless guy who asks me for a buck that way. I give him a buck. I don't hand him a fable filled book and tell him to pray to a god he can't see, feel hear or touch. , so why does god treat you like an idiot?

Dustbowl, I gotta say, you are a character.

As an Atheist, I'm very vocal when things affect me. I dont believe in prayer in school or religious tests for our leaders. And I don't like it when I get blindsided by some street evangelist. I'll debate anyone on the merits of an argument for the existence of god anyday.

That said, I don't invade the private conversation of a bunch of believers discussing what church they should attend and tell them they are all stupid.

Atheists are a large and important part of this country; unfortunately, they are stereotyped as being some militant group out their to steal the Christians' bibles. You seem to be contributing to that fallacy.

Just as I dont want someone invading my thread on the FSM, I don't think we should do the same.

Dustbowl, I gotta say, you are a character.

As an Atheist, I'm very vocal when things affect me. I dont believe in prayer in school or religious tests for our leaders. And I don't like it when I get blindsided by some street evangelist. I'll debate anyone on the merits of an argument for the existence of god anyday.

That said, I don't invade the private conversation of a bunch of believers discussing what church they should attend and tell them they are all stupid.

Atheists are a large and important part of this country; unfortunately, they are stereotyped as being some militant group out their to steal the Christians' bibles. You seem to be contributing to that fallacy.

Just as I dont want someone invading my thread on the FSM, I don't think we should do the same.

Where's the atheist thread? I don't believe in god, allah, zeus or any other man-made god. Straight-up, no varnish. Pray for me, I need it. You are all atheists concerning other gods, I just take it one god further. Your god. Sue me.

Just as I dont want someone invading my thread on the FSM, I don't think we should do the same.[/QUOTE]


Do you really think you can take an atheist-lite attitude and live with yourself? Trust what you know and don't give in to the feel-gooders. If you do, you are just as guilty as they are watering down the truth. Free yourself from the guilt and you will see things clearly. I'm praying to the almighty FSM that you see things the way I interpret them. Isn't that the way the religious terrorists do it? Hey, FSM should get into the prosperity gig. We could make millions.

Pastor Craig is speaking at a conference with Colin Powell this week. I thought our OKC assistant pastor did awesome in speaking today, he's an Aussie. Powerful stuff. Hopefully he'll be able to help launch Australian campuses some day.


Isn't Colin Blow Powell the guy who used his credibility to lie to the amerikan people at the U.N. to get us into a war? Yeah, he has credibility. Too stupid to see through the Oedipus Complex that the Shrub carries around on his shoulder. I think I will pray that Colin Blow finds his own morals and stops making millions making speeches to "Me Too" audiences who want to believe he wasn't part of the $$ factory. Yeah right.

dustbowl... we get get it. you're bigoted against religion. you've already started a thread on this subject... no need to derail this one. so... unless you want to do anything more than flamebaiting, i suggest you move along.

-M

Dustbowl, there's no need to go digging hundreds of posts into this thread and bring up a bunch of inflammatory crap. All you do is call people names.

For someone with so much money from all your expert stock trades, you sure are a cynical, negative, debbie downer about EVERYTHING.

Dustbowl -
When did you become the ruler of people's choice of beliefs? And who are you to call anyone stupid for those beliefs? Just because you don't believe that way doesn't make it wrong or stupid.

I am so sick of these existentialistic statements. They aren't even educated debates, they are just "you are stupid" "no, you are" 3rd grade arguments. Why do we as a society think that our way of thinking is the only way? Why can't you all be right?

Dustbowl, there's no need to go digging hundreds of posts into this thread and bring up a bunch of inflammatory crap. All you do is call people names.

For someone with so much money from all your expert stock trades, you sure are a cynical, negative, debbie downer about EVERYTHING.

Look at what you just wrote above. You say I'm doing something wrong with an air of superiority and that I just call people names and then in the next breath do the same thing.
I'm going to let it go because you probably don't get it.

Dustbowl -
When did you become the ruler of people's choice of beliefs? And who are you to call anyone stupid for those beliefs? Just because you don't believe that way doesn't make it wrong or stupid.

I am so sick of these existentialistic statements. They aren't even educated debates, they are just "you are stupid" "no, you are" 3rd grade arguments. Why do we as a society think that our way of thinking is the only way? Why can't you all be right?

You make a good point. I believe that all religions are dangerous because they require a suspension of reality and they discourage critical thinking. The followers are encouraged to believe that their leader is correct and they seldom question what is going on or even why they believe him. This leads to group-think and me- too'ism. Do I really need to go into detail of all the examples of the horrible human results of this type of thinking? I'm talking on a large scale, not just local examples.

Believe what you want to believe. I prefer to think with facts and review history for confirmation.

Why do humans have this desire to believe things that they can't prove? There is much new research in this area being performed by Sam Harris and others that shed some light on the subject. No, I'm not a blind follower of Sam Harris and the other evil atheists and agnostics. They would be the first to correct their thesis if proven wrong though. Can you imagine that happening in any religion?

It would be interesting if belief in a higher power were removed from human thought and people dealt with each other without all the dogma, guilt and indoctrination.

Believe what you want to believe. I prefer to think with facts and review history for confirmation.

Why do humans have this desire to believe things that they can't prove?
It would be interesting if belief in a higher power were removed from human thought and people dealt with each other without all the dogma, guilt and indoctrination.

Again - you are assuming that we do not review history and are not educated because we choose to believe in a God.

Can you prove love exists? No. It's a feeling like faith. You learn what it is by experiencing it. Love is not tangible nor is it something you can explain in a dictionary. Do you believe in love?

I respect your right and choice to not believe in a higher power, I only hope someday you learn to re-evaluate the way you state your rights and beliefs to include respect for my choices as well. I don't think you are stupid because you do not believe, you should not think we are stupid because we choose to believe.

It's like this guy I met over the weekend who was telling my friend she was stupid because she lets her dogs sleep in her bed. "Dogs belong outside" he says. No, dogs belong wherever the owner of the dog chooses to allow him to belong. Just because this guy felt dogs belonged outside, he assumed we were all stupid if we didn't agree with his decision. I learned a long time ago that if everyone agreed on everything I thought or believed, I wouldn't have anyone to argue with and the world would be pretty freaking boring. I also learned you can tell a lot about someone when they make demanding statements like that. If he had said "I believe dogs are outside animals" or "my dogs stay outside" or "I prefer to keep dogs outside" that would have been him stating his personal opinions without projecting them onto us. But by stating "dogs belong outside" he let me know 3 things about himself. 1. His way is the only way. 2. He is always right. 3. Things in life have a place to him - and I'm pretty sure he has a preconceived idea of where women belong and what their role should be as well.

Look at what you just wrote above. You say I'm doing something wrong with an air of superiority and that I just call people names and then in the next breath do the same thing.
I'm going to let it go because you probably don't get it.

90% of your posts are riddled with insults against someone. That's the difference.

It would be interesting if belief in a higher power were removed from human thought and people dealt with each other without all the dogma, guilt and indoctrination.

And yet, if we lead by example, your interactions with others on this forum does not demonstrate that the removal of dogma, guilt and indoctrination necessarily leads to admirable behavior.

Returning to post 641, and bypassing the detour of the subsequent 14 blocks,
it's an interesting Q to ponder, irrespective of your beliefs

> What would you pray if God would answer One Prayer for the Church at large?

Returning to post 641, and bypassing the detour of the subsequent 14 blocks,
it's an interesting Q to ponder, irrespective of your beliefs

> What would you pray if God would answer One Prayer for the Church at large?

Prayer, itself, is a bizarre concept. When a tragedy happens, everyone says we all need to pray; as if God won't heal that 12 year old girl hit by a car unless X number of people asks that she be spared. What's the magic number?

I don't mean that as a slap at any faith, but the prayer concept itself is - different.

And yet, if we lead by example, your interactions with others on this forum does not demonstrate that the removal of dogma, guilt and indoctrination necessarily leads to admirable behavior.


Forgive me. I don't want to burn in a lake of fire. I'm scared and now I see the light.

Prayer, itself, is a bizarre concept. When a tragedy happens, everyone says we all need to pray; as if God won't heal that 12 year old girl hit by a car unless X number of people asks that she be spared. What's the magic number?

I don't mean that as a slap at any faith, but the prayer concept itself is - different.

I'm not going to pretend it isn't complicated. What I would say is that in a situation like you described, prayer is more for the person praying. God knows his plan, but by praying, we strengthen our faith. The Bible doesn't promise that our prayer will always be answered, but we pray anyway.

A daddy doesn't have to have his son tell him he loves him to know it. Hearing those words certainly doesn't hurt either. Get the point?