what was landrun's involvement in 'the rise' on 23rd? i thought they were the developer.

They were but that was the only property they've developed while buying and flipping dozens of others.

https://images1.loopnet.com/i2/jejSvYNxI7XVotfi_VKoo8xCz7bYWBJ9rtxhY5qlnp4/116/520-W-Main-St-Oklahoma-City-OK-Building-Photo-1-LargeHighDefinition.jpg

Could this building be purchased, renovated and expanded by any of the MAPS 4 human needs projects:


Mental Health and Addiction ($40 million)

Family Justice Center operated by Palomar ($38 million)
...MAPS 4 will transform Oklahoma City’s mental health system with $40 million in capital projects that will provide new mental health and substance abuse services and relieve pressure on the Oklahoma County jail.

The package includes $11 million to build two new mental health crisis centers and a $22 million restoration center that includes a crisis center, methamphetamine detox, substance abuse services and more. MAPS 4 also includes $7 million for temporary housing for people experiencing mental illness and homelessness while transitioning out of a crisis center. The operational costs would be covered by non-City sources.

Homelessness ($50 million)

Or sold to Holiday Inn or a similar hotel chain.

Just a thought...

They were but that was the only property they've developed while buying and flipping dozens of others.
that makes sense... gotcha.

Family Justice Center operated by Palomar ($38 million)
...MAPS 4 will transform Oklahoma City’s mental health system with $40 million in capital projects that will provide new mental health and substance abuse services and relieve pressure on the Oklahoma County jail.


Family Justice Center would be pretty amazing actually

Family Justice Center would be pretty amazing actually

I know that sounds good....but Post #122 from Laramie shows why that is not possible. You can see the Devon tower in the background, and it was decided when they built the tower that poor people cannot be visible from the tower. That is why everything is moving to General Pershing and Villa.

Shuttered downtown Holiday Inn to be converted to apartments (https://www.okctalk.com/content.php?r=950-Shuttered-downtown-Holiday-Inn-to-be-converted-to-apartments)

Plans have been submitted to convert the old Holiday Inn at 520 W. Main Street into apartment units.


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The building has been sitting empty for several years. Its prior use was as a training center for the Institute of Basic Life Principles, a non-denominational Christian organization. Amazon Prime is debuting a new mini-series on the IBLP on June 2nd.

Before that, the 10-story building had operated as a Holiday Inn hotel.

Plans call for 204 apartments, an indoor pickleball court, a fitness center, an outdoor pool, and a dog park.

The project would follow several others in the downtown area that have seen several older office buildings converted into living units; in fact, this building is directly west of one such property: The Montgomery. Occupancy of downtown housing remains quite high, easily absorbing almost all the new units that are brought online.



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They thinking about sticking a restaurant or something in the space that's N.I.C.?

^

If you look at the site plan that area seems to be demolished to make way for the pool and dog park.

Plus it looks like they may split off the surface lot to the south. They don't need surface parking because, like the neighboring Montgomery, they can use the city parking structure right next door -- it has plenty of capacity.

Also, note that almost all the apartments are studios. I suspect they are going to try and make these units somewhat affordable.

This would be a really big deal for the west side of downtown. 200 new apartments along main street is fantastic.

BTW, pretty sure the owner/developer is Tanenbaum even though the plans don't say it.

He's made a cottage industry out of these conversions: The Montgomery, Park Harvey, Lincoln Plaza, The Classen, and soon, Harlow.

^^^^^^^^^
Also soon the old BancFirst HQ at 101 N Broadway.

^^^^^^^^^
Also soon the old BancFirst HQ at 101 N Broadway.

That's Harlow.

Well then I mean 100 Park Avenue because he's doing both. I just didn't recall which one is getting the Harlow name. For some reason I was associating it with the Park Avenue building.

Well then I mean 100 Park Avenue because he's doing both. I just didn't recall which one is getting the Harlow name. For some reason I was associating it with the Park Avenue building.

Edit: ah, now I see that he is branding two separate buildings together as the same brand. I'd missed that. A little weird but OK. I definitely trust his finished product. Heck, I lived in one for years.

BTW, that upcoming docu-series about the Institute of Basic Life Principles should be very interesting.

Most know their founder (Bill Gothard) was run off by all types of sexual harassment claims and when there is a series on these semi-cults, it's always pretty ugly.

Based on the floor plans, the assumption is these will be studio apartments. There are keeping the original hotel rooms and just adding a kitchen area. Would think they would knock down a wall and make bigger apartments, but that does not look like the deal. Nonetheless, adds additional living options downtown, and should not be that expensive.

Based on the floor plans, the assumption is these will be studio apartments. There are keeping the original hotel rooms and just adding a kitchen area. Would think they would knock down a wall and make bigger apartments, but that does not look like the deal. Nonetheless, adds additional living options downtown, and should not be that expensive.

They did the same with a ton of units at Lincoln Plaza, which had also been a mid-century hotel with concrete walls.

^

If you look at the site plan that area seems to be demolished to make way for the pool and dog park.

Plus it looks like they may split off the surface lot to the south. They don't need surface parking because, like the neighboring Montgomery, they can use the city parking structure right next door -- it has plenty of capacity.

Also, note that almost all the apartments are studios. I suspect they are going to try and make these units somewhat affordable.

Isn’t the NIC portion the part facing main street on the left hand (east) side of the building or am I looking at it wrong? Figure the coworking area would be where all the windows are on the right/west side and leasing office would be closer to the front and the pool equipment room is on the opposite side of all that.

Looks like the NIC area is also being given its own dedicated bathrooms that aren’t accessible from anywhere else on the first floor (at least as the plans are currently drawn up) and there are other bathrooms for the lobby/amenities area/offices as well as the pool.

As far as developers/owners…the amenities are nearly identical to what Tanenbaum built into Lincoln Plaza/Presley (aside from the lack of basketball court and bringing Pickelball indoors) and are even laid out similarly given the differences in the two spaces…so that’s probably a good guess. Another mid century building with a ton of space for additional development.

Think that many studio apartments are going to be taken downtown? Seems like most of what's down there is larger, more upscale. I'm always an advocate for more affordable housing also being developed, so this is great. But it feels like they went to the opposite end of the spectrum. The walls really make it difficult to do much else, so I get it. But they could at least cut a hole between them to create multiple rooms without creating a massive expense. Maybe only one floor or two or something.

That's just a LOOOOT of studio in one place.

Think that many studio apartments are going to be taken downtown? Seems like most of what's down there is larger, more upscale. I'm always an advocate for more affordable housing also being developed, so this is great. But it feels like they went to the opposite end of the spectrum. The walls really make it difficult to do much else, so I get it. But they could at least cut a hole between them to create multiple rooms without creating a massive expense. Maybe only one floor or two or something.

That's just a LOOOOT of studio in one place.

1. Studios and affordable apartments are in the highest demand category in OKC.
2. 200 apartment units in a city of 700,000 people is not that many apartments.
3. This is a very initial design; I would expect it to evolve.

We need more affordable housing, especially downtown.

1. Studios and affordable apartments are in the highest demand category in OKC.
2. 200 apartment units in a city of 700,000 people is not that many apartments.
3. This is a very initial design; I would expect it to evolve.

We need more affordable housing, especially downtown.

I would probably try to mix in at least some true one bedrooms as well (if they can) just to add a little variety because those are also in very high demand but even if they don’t, I bet this whole thing is leased fairly quickly with all the amenities it offers.

I bet they are trying to get assistance related to affordable housing.

Excellent news. Good project and I like this very central location. More inhabitants in the CBD \ downtown will give a better feel to it too.

Talked to someone at Gardner Tanenbaum and they said this is not their project.

Jonathan Russel (current owner) may be doing it himself.

BTW, that upcoming docu-series about the Institute of Basic Life Principles should be very interesting.

Most know their founder (Bill Gothard) was run off by all types of sexual harassment claims and when there is a series on these semi-cults, it's always pretty ugly.

https://nypost.com/2023/05/23/inside-the-pandemic-of-abuse-surrounding-duggar-family-cult/

Here is an interesting article about the IBLP. Yeah, that sounds pretty ugly. I was closely associated with someone who has the mindset of these people. Save your first kiss for alter, raise women to be future husbands without making them get diplomas. It's a creepy world. The docuseries will be on Prime if anyone is interested.

https://nypost.com/2023/05/23/inside-the-pandemic-of-abuse-surrounding-duggar-family-cult/

Here is an interesting article about the IBLP. Yeah, that sounds pretty ugly. I was closely associated with someone who has the mindset of these people. Save your first kiss for alter, raise women to be future husbands without making them get diplomas. It's a creepy world. The docuseries will be on Prime if anyone is interested.

I dated a lady who was very deeply involved before a divorce in her thirties. She had met BIll Gothard multiple times. I didn’t follow up but she did mention something about there being a very good reason people think he’s creepy.

Weird that I missed this is the group associated with the Duggars. Yikes.

This place has creeped me out ever since that group was in there. I noticed recently that one of the top rooms had a light on and the fan going. I am glad to know that they are working on something and it isn't some ghost. LOL

Any system that puts absolute power and authority in the hands of men only is always going to breed rampant sexual abuse and other horrible acts.

Not just religions but also businesses and other organizations. Having worked extensively in the entertainment industry in the 90s before the 'me too' movement, I could share stories that you would not believe. Looking back, I have a hard time believing it myself.

Talked to someone at Gardner Tanenbaum and they said this is not their project.

Jonathan Russel (current owner) may be doing it himself.

That is disappointing as Gardner Tanenbaum has a pretty good track record of implementation

The previous iteration of this building was featured a few times in the new Duggar doc on Prime. Biiiiig yikes

Any question as to whether IBLP was or was not a cult is cleared up in the Prime doc. It is and was a scary cult. So, it's weird also to see OKC referenced in Shiny Happy People: the Hobby Lobby Greens were financial supporters of IBLP; Elise Hall of Hall's Pizza Kitchen is name-dropped although it's not clear what her connection to IBLP was: and, of course, the building, which was one of the IBLP's so-called training centers. Minor children were sent there for "character" training, and it's mentioned in the documentary that the set-up was ripe for mental, physical, and sexual abuse.

$1.9 million in TIF for this project.

$1.9 million in TIF for this project.

A classic example of where TIF benefits a speculator and warps the free market. This property should be selling for $1.9 million less if there is no way for a redevelopment to make sense without TIF. I guarantee you the seller was pointing the buyer to OCURA the entire time, telling them you can get a TIF here, as they continued to ask for a high selling price.

A classic example of where TIF benefits a speculator and warps the free market. This property should be selling for $1.9 million less if there is no way for a redevelopment to make sense without TIF. I guarantee you the seller was pointing the buyer to OCURA the entire time, telling them you can get a TIF here, as they continued to ask for a high selling price.

Care to show your evidence or are you just spitballing a conspiracy?

Care to show your evidence or are you just spitballing a conspiracy?

1. Because this and many similar downtown properties sit idle for for years, asking price never reduced, and then only get a deal done when a TIF is involved.
2. Some of these sellers tell buyers they can get TIF money for their projects, but of course wont reduce their asking price.

If TIF wasnt a thing, this deal either wouldnt happen or the seller would have to come down on his price so a buyer could make redeveloping the property make financial sense. This isnt some grand redevelopment plan, its pretty simple. But that it still couldnt happen without a TIF tells me it was overpriced by the seller.

With as many TIF projects in the downtown area, its impossible that it hasnt skewed the property value market.

1. Because this and many similar downtown properties sit idle for for years, asking price never reduced, and then only get a deal done when a TIF is involved.
2. Some of these sellers tell buyers they can get TIF money for their projects, but of course wont reduce their asking price.

If TIF wasnt a thing, this deal either wouldnt happen or the seller would have to come down on his price so a buyer could make redeveloping the property make financial sense. This isnt some grand redevelopment plan, its pretty simple. But that it still couldnt happen without a TIF tells me it was overpriced by the seller.

With as many TIF projects in the downtown area, its impossible that it hasnt skewed the property value market.

Just curious if there was a professionally performed independent valuation done on the property? Appraisals would help indicate true market value.

Was the sales contract contingent on TIF money being approved or was buyer obligated regardless? Did sale close before tif money authorized?

Just curious if there was a professionally performed independent valuation done on the property? Appraisals would help indicate true market value.

Was the sales contract contingent on TIF money being approved or was buyer obligated regardless? Did sale close before tif money authorized?

Im sure none of these deals close without assurance or being at least 99% sure that TIF money will be given.

Im sure none of these deals close without assurance or being at least 99% sure that TIF money will be given.

You are SURE?

The seller can't make the assurance. If they promised it with 99% certainty and it didn't happen, they would be liable. If they promised without having the authority, that is fraud. If you can prove that a pre arranged offer of tif was made and accepted, I believe there would be legal implications. So WHO issues the assurance? And what bank accepts a promise of something that isn't documented as part of the valuation for lending purposes. And what investor is getting the assurance?

Lots of accusations and implications and not a lot of lines connecting dots. Who promised? Who implied? Who made decisions on those promises? What was exchanged for those promises? What values did those promises have in the deal. Who, who, who? What, what, what? When, when, when? Why, why, why?

You are SURE?

The seller can't make the assurance. If they promised it with 99% certainty and it didn't happen, they would be liable. If they promised without having the authority, that is fraud. If you can prove that a pre arranged offer of tif was made and accepted, I believe there would be legal implications. So WHO issues the assurance? And what bank accepts a promise of something that isn't documented as part of the valuation for lending purposes. And what investor is getting the assurance?

Lots of accusations and implications and not a lot of lines connecting dots. Who promised? Who implied? Who made decisions on those promises? What was exchanged for those promises? What values did those promises have in the deal. Who, who, who? What, what, what? When, when, when? Why, why, why?

Of course the seller cant make that assurance but Im saying they are selling their property with the line that a buyer can get TIF money. They'll gladly point the buyer right to OCURA and probably Cathy Oconnor now and mention how lots of TIF money has been awarded for similar properties. Its not some crazy conspiracy, I've experienced it myself! I will assume you've heard of due diligence or inspection periods and that it can continue on as a buyer looks at securing lots of things like financing, rezoning, site plan approvals, and yes, TIF packages. I guarantee many of these deals dont close until TIF money is secured in some way.

Sounds like a lot of guarantees.

Of course the seller cant make that assurance but Im saying they are selling their property with the line that a buyer can get TIF money. They'll gladly point the buyer right to OCURA and probably Cathy Oconnor now and mention how lots of TIF money has been awarded for similar properties. Its not some crazy conspiracy, I've experienced it myself! I will assume you've heard of due diligence or inspection periods and that it can continue on as a buyer looks at securing lots of things like financing, rezoning, site plan approvals, and yes, TIF packages. I guarantee many of these deals dont close until TIF money is secured in some way.

Guaranteed the tif is guaranteed before the deal is closed. Interesting.

Guaranteed the tif is guaranteed before the deal is closed. Interesting.

It would not be unusual that closing would be contingent on getting TIF and other financing.

It would not be unusual that closing would be contingent on getting TIF and other financing.

Different than being guaranteed before it is done. We need to find out who is guaranteeing it or implying it is guaranteed and on what basis they are guaranteeing.

Can tif be approved before it is owned by the applicant?

Can tif be approved before it is owned by the applicant?

Yes, that's common. It's just not paid out until parameters are met (such as actually closing on the property, making certain investment, etc.).

And as I've explained, by the time we see anything about a TIF award on a public agenda, it's already a done deal. Literally a 100% approval rate by the subcommittees and city council. Which tells you it's all negotiated and the approving parties have already been briefed long before it becomes public. I know that's the way it works because council and committee members have told me so.

City Council formally approved the $2.9 million TIF grant for this project yesterday.

The redevelopers are from Georgia and already own several apartment complexes around OKC.

The average rent is $875. They are basically converting the old hotel rooms -- almost all are just over 300 SF -- into studios with kitchenettes.

They also mentioned they will be cutting a deal with the City for about 200 spaces in the adjacent garage which is less than half occupied.

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City Council formally approved the $2.9 million TIF grant for this project yesterday.

The redevelopers are from Georgia and already own several apartment complexes around OKC.

The average rent is $875. They are basically converting the old hotel rooms -- almost all are just over 300 SF -- into studios with kitchenettes.

They also mentioned they will be cutting a deal with the City for about 200 spaces in the adjacent garage which is less than half occupied.

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So they ARE going to at least attempt to use the old bar/restaurant space! Cool!

Looks like some work is starting.

The new owners completed the purchase last month.

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I hope they get that IBLP smell out of it

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Did you take these on Sunday?

Did you take these on Sunday?

Yes, around 9 AM.

Quad Construction has started on this project. They have their logo on the fences and dumpsters out front being filled.

This is the plan for painting the building and surrounding concrete fence.

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Looks nice! Would to se a cool PULSE signage on the side of the building

[QUOTE=Bowser214;1268251]Looks so nice! Would like to see a cool PULSE signage on the side of the building! [/

I really hate this name. Like naming your apartment building "The Newtown"

I really hate this name. Like naming your apartment building "The Newtown"

I had the same thought.

I just don't like seeing places named the same thing as locations where a tragedy occurred, I instantly think of it. Pulse club and Station club, both haunting names for me forever.

I just don't like seeing places named the same thing as locations where a tragedy occurred, I instantly think of it. Pulse club and Station club, both haunting names for me forever.

One World Trade Center would like a word.

I think people are trying to create a problem where there isn't one, just like with OAK.