When exactly are we going to see some kind of high rise complex (residential or business) built in downtown? It's been a long while. I've read where Omaha (a smaller city) just finished a forty something story business tower and are now about to embark on a 32 story residential-retail tower. Why Omaha and not us?

It seems several cities of similar size have or will have things shooting into the sky at high rates (ie. Charlotte, Memphis, Jacksonville). I'm hoping as downtown interest continues to grow, so to will construction. It would just be nice to have a great looking skyline. Your thoughts.

I think we will see one.

I think we will see one.

Is that a hint!

or just a thought?

I really would like to see something too. OKC is seeing a ton of interest in downtown housing, but it seems to be a ton of smaller projects. I wish some of these developers would get together and build 2-3 larger towers.

Ah, the downtownguy speaks!

He knows something...

I'd love to see something happen between lower Bricktown and the river.

Would have great views of both the skyline and the river area, plus access to all the recreation that is emerging in that area.

I still believe the mostly likely to happen is a mixed-use residential/office/retail complex that tops 65 floors. We need a developer with this kind of ambition to bring downtown Oklahoma City to the next level. We really do need a new signature tower downtown, one the city can really be proud of.

Have any of you seen the mixed use tower being built in Dallas next to the American Airlines Arena. I saw it the other day. I am not sure what it is, but it appears to be a mixed use tower. The bottom twenty floors or so had smaller windows and the upper twenty had all glass and balconies. There were additional buildings of the same design being built next to it.

It would be awesome to see a development like that built in OKC.

Have any of you seen the mixed use tower being built in Dallas next to the American Airlines Arena. I saw it the other day. I am not sure what it is, but it appears to be a mixed use tower. The bottom twenty floors or so had smaller windows and the upper twenty had all glass and balconies. There were additional buildings of the same design being built next to it.

It would be awesome to see a development like that built in OKC.

They're putting up a W Hotel next to the AAC. There will be several floors of condos, too, I believe... as well as some retail.

What's Omaha's vacancy rate downtown?

We really need to find better use for First National, before we start thinking of building a new office tower downtown. Once we do something with First National, the office vacancy rate downtown will improve drastically. By the way, Devon is out of space at their tower and at Chase Tower. They're growing by leaps and bounds. I wouldn't be surprised if they moved out of Chase Tower, sold their existing building, and built a new signature skyscraper somewhere downtown. Devon can't wait to be the sole symbol of OKC!

I agree Patrick. I am not a commercial Real Estate expert, but I would think that most developers would be turned off by our vacancy rate. No one wants to build an empty building. The rate may be skewed and not a true indicator of the demand for space downtown (then again, it could be very accurate). It could very well be that the type of space does not meet demand and there's simply too much of the wrong kind of space. But, it takes someone with intimate knowledge of the local market and I'm guessing the types that build 60 story buildings are not likely to get past our vacancy rate as there are opportunities for them elsewhere.

At the same time though, our vacancy rate is sorta deceiving. First National makes up a huge chunk of the vacancy downtown. It's not very useable office space for today's needs. If you take that out of the equation, I bet our vacancy rates wouldn't look as bad. That's why I'd love to see someone come in, purchase the building, and convert it to residential use.

I know parking has been mentioned as a problem for First National, but there are several buildings downtown that don't have decent parking. The Galleria Parking garage isn't too far.

But why is office space the only thing being talked about. Office space and residential space are obviously two different things. I'm waiting for someone to build a residential-retial mixed use type of builiding. You're seeing them pop up all over other cities, and we have yet to catch on. Instead we seem to be settling for smaller projects, when we could be aiming for bigger and more bolder projects. Again, if less appealing cities like Memphis, Omaha, even Mobile (they've got a 30 story condo tower going up) can do it, why can't we. What's holding us back.

First National would be perfect for this use. It's the owners holding us back.

Interesting thread. A W in Dallas, eh? My my...

I've stayed in two W's on Manhattan, the one in Westwood, and I had a long-term stay in the one around Milpitas (East-Bay). Talk about hip, way more hip that I'm up for, but well worth the experience.

Back to OKC: well I've bugged off to an acre in the country so I'm no longer a city boy, but I'm still very interested in Bricktown. My take: Residences will come, but high rises? Who can say. I agree with the others, current occupancy rates obviously have a lot to do with any future plans. I'm confident that residences of some sort will be popping-up around Brick/Downtown in the relatively near future, and their number will likely increase logarithmically. Before Developers begin building new glass and steel towers I'd like to see them utilize the old spaces more effectiely, e.g. the apartments that are in the old, what was it, a Wards? Years ago, while in Canada, I recall seeing an old brick brewery, (Molson, I think) being gutted in preparation for rebirth as upscale apartments or condos inside the old brick structure, something like Bricktown only residential. I'd like to see the same here. I usually prefer the re-utilization of old buildings, rather than the creation of new ones, modern architecture in general being what it is, i.e. horrid.

However, I was in El Pas a couple of weeks ago and, on the Northwest side of town I saw a beautiful new, and rather large, building that had Santa Fe, Pueblo, and Prarie styling. We can still create buildings that are impressive physically and aesthetically, but it's more the exception rather than the rule. So, untill we really need to create some potentially monstrous concrete and glass tower let's stick with what we have, and make it better.

Taller is not always better. OKC has a skyline, what it needs is growth in other critical areas. The vacancy rate makes it almost impossible to seriously consider a new skyscaper. Too much money for the sq. ft. value versus other urban design ideas.

I agree that better use of what we have is better in the long run than just building the next empty building. Just look at the hotels. The Skirvin and the Colcord are much more exciting and interesting than anything else. I do think that a true convention hotel would be nice and maybe is the best possibility for a new high rise. I think that the Courtyard will be recognized as a huge missed opportunity on that front.

I think the problem is that not only are we not converting some valued properties, its that when we are building new buildings that half of them end up being these unambitious and half assed developments like the coming Residence Inn, most of lower bricktown, and, possibly this Embassy Suites. We can not let the bad developers take away from things like the Montgomery, the Skirvin, the Colcord, and others. It's just frustrating that no one has looked at the demand growing in the market and said "ok, enough of this cheap crap, we given all we can, now we're going to start expecting something from these developers who are benefiting greatly from public capital investment."

All it takes is a developer that has the vision and the money. Paul Coury, the Tulsa developer that is doing the boutique hotel in OKC that will be like the Ambassador in Tulsa had plans a few years ago for a 25 story condo tower at 21st and Riverside to be called the Portofino in the Uptown area.

The plan died with the downturn in the Tulsa 2002-2003 economy and the site is now called the Tudors with a mix of half million dollar single family townhomes and a five story condo building. He might be the one to see that OKC could support such a project if the right site was available.

I don't understand how the office vacancy rate would be getting in the way of a residential tower. And besides, all the vacant office space is Class B and C for the most part. A nice tower with Class A space would fill up when First National can't.

When exactly are we going to see some kind of high rise complex (residential or business) built in downtown? It's been a long while. I've read where Omaha (a smaller city) just finished a forty something story business tower and are now about to embark on a 32 story residential-retail tower. Why Omaha and not us?

It seems several cities of similar size have or will have things shooting into the sky at high rates (ie. Charlotte, Memphis, Jacksonville). I'm hoping as downtown interest continues to grow, so to will construction. It would just be nice to have a great looking skyline. Your thoughts.


you should go to eomaha, they have a great video that makes their city look awesome. much better of a video than the one for okc.

What's Omaha's vacancy rate downtown?


i found this, but its really old data. so if any one else has newer data....well ya know post it. 2002. okc 31 to omahas 22%

Is there anyone here that's good at C.G.? I'm pretty darned good at video editing (in my always humble opinion) and well versed in the ways of AViD. I have access to decent equipment and am pretty handy with a video camera. I can do titles, but am useless when it comes to logo design and other C.G. (although I am just fine if I can steal something). I'd be open to working on such a video this summer in what spare time I might have if there is anyone out there who can do C.G. stuff.

i was on emporis and was looking at the buildings in okc and noticed something that caught my interest. it stated that 1 high rise had been proposed for the city and another had been approved. last time i was on this site nothing was on this list. does anyone know what buildings they are talking about? res, hotel, business?

As you may recall, the McLains developed a plan for "The Factory" high rise, mixed use, in Bricktown, but decided to sell the property rather than proceed with the project. Also, the twenty-some-odd floor Park Harvey building will soon be converted to residential use as will three other similar sized vacant buildings in downtown.

The driving force is income potential and the present rent levels in OKC won't support a new construction high rise yet. I'm guessing at least five years, more likley ten, before someone takes on that challenge. It will take someone with very deep pockets and lots of experience with similar development.

Forget about high-rise. Most Oklahomans just aren't interested. Oklahomans are used to a front-yard and a back-yard. Oklahomans are used to space. Someone on here said they moved to 10 acre spread. That's what they want, their own space. For the most part, Oklahomans have grown up not having to share a wall, unless they grew up in an apartment. The main people who would want to live in high-rise would seem to be people who have already lived there, i.e. from bigger cities where they already have it in great amounts.

Omaha is where Warren Buffet? is from, right? Warren is one of the richest men in the world. I believe Omaha has several good companies located there. Mutual of Omaha insurance for one. I believe Omaha is where Warren Buffet has his financial empire headquartered and they are bringing in lots of people from around the country to work there. Omaha is an exception. Omaha probably has a higher income level and the national average and is probably near the top of the list for a city it's size.

OKCNDN... Have you read DowntownOKC, Inc's housing study from 2005?

Because it shows that a lot of people around the metro DO want to have an urban lifestyle and live downtown. (And by saying that they want to live downtown, I assume that they were picturing high rise units.)

That survey might be a little biased don't you think? After all it was done by "DOWNTOWN"OKC, Inc!!! I have no doubt some people want to live there. I should have said ALL of the people I know don't want to have to share a wall with someone and have no desire to live in high-rise or apartment. They all want a backyard, something of their own. Having said that I do hope housing succeeds in downtown OKC.

I know that the young people want to live downtown. It is just a matter of them finding good jobs in the metro.

I'm a college student and a loft apartment in a downtown high rise is something EVERYONE I know wants to have after they graduate. Whether it be in OKC or Tulsa, or a really big city like Dallas or Atlanta, that is where people in my age group want to live. Of course it's a lot more expensive but as more are built prices have gone down. No one I talk to is really interested in a house with a yard (too much maintenance) until after they have an established family. And when my friends look for a house they want one in the city and NOT in the suburbs. Look at all the urban loft and high rise projects in major cities, they realize this and OKC is starting to realize it too but needs more.

I have an idea from an outsiders point of view, stop trying to be like other cities and just be yourself. It should make you all happy that after my last trip to OKC I showed so many people back home pictures of OKC and everyone one of those people were impressed and surprised because they had no idea how nice it is, they thought it was still a dustbowl. Now I have freinds that want to go with me on my next trip. Be your own city, not an Omaha, or a Witchita, or even a Tulsa..just be OKC.

The housing study was conducted INDEPENDENTLY for DowntownOKC, Inc, so there's no reason why it should be biased. BG918 is right. Young people want an urban lifestyle, even if they grew up in Oklahoma. There's already a high demand, and if we can get more jobs for this generation, then the demand will only increase.

Just keep your ideas up there in the city, and do not push them off on us out here in the sticks where many of us like to be. It seems all too often those who just love the city life want us all to "enjoy" it right along with them.

By the way, I don't stereotype.

Oki_Man5, no one in this thread is pushing anything off on anybody else outside the city. This thread is to strictly discuss changing the Oklahoma City skyline, which can and will change. There are people in this state that prefer homes with big yards and a lot of space. But there are as many people that want urban lifestyles.

Studies are carefully done to see if there is a demand. And, studies have to be done for areas concerning downtown. Everyone knows studies aren't ever needed out in the subdivisions since they are always in demand.

Just keep your ideas up there in the city, and do not push them off on us out here in the sticks where many of us like to be. It seems all too often those who just love the city life want us all to "enjoy" it right along with them.

By the way, I don't stereotype.

I'm exactly sure what your point is, unless you just want to appear provacative. Since the point of this forum is to discuss ideas and issues and share information, feel free to clarify.

do not push them off on us out here in the sticks where many of us like to be.

I'm confused. I thought this thread was about building downtown. Did someone suggest doing this in the sticks?

The truth of the matter is that OKC is largely comprised of "the sticks". Downtown hosing that has been proposed and that is being developed is an extremely small part of the overall housing mix. I don't see how developments which constitute 2-3% of the housing mix AT MOST is pushing it on anyone. If anything, people from the sticks have pushed their mentality of large black top parking and big box shopping on the inner city.

I understand wanting your "own space". You’re in luck, because OKC is full of empty space.. But there is a part of the population that likes people and the energy that density creates. Some are not happy closing themselves off in their plastic bubbles and high fences. There's no reason why OKC can't develop a very small segment of the city for those people. It may actually help us retain a lot of the young people that we spend so much time and energy educating only to have them leave because they want something other than the suburban isolation that dominates OKC's housing mix.

It really is a very small thing to ask for one high rise residential development, as the subject of this thread does, especially compared to the acres of land that are cleared and developed for suburban and rural development every year.

I know I for one would love to live in downtown. Imagine getting up in the morning and have a stunning view of downtown right in your window.


On another note. What do you guys think of a high-rise hotel building? I know it's probably a long shot. But, I believe OKC could host larger conventions if we had more rooms downtown. I know with the Skirvin and the hotels in Bricktown coming along will help. But, To get bigger conventions and the like we need more hotel rooms. I wish somebody like Hyatt or another major chain would announce plans for a thirty or forty Storey hotel downtown. That would be sweet.

I'm exactly sure what your point is, unless you just want to appear provacative. Since the point of this forum is to discuss ideas and issues and share information, feel free to clarify.

The point is: "They gave a little piece of Chevoslovakia to Hitler thinking they could get along with him if he were appeased and ignored," so I do not ignore anyone when it comes to expansions of cities for the most part. If they are ignored, they seem to begin to thinking the ignoring in some way is approval when it is simply a means of hoping they stay away.

While I agree that is the reason for the thread, and I have no problem with your discussing it to the extent you want, I stand by my desire that you and any others who might be reading (Town Hall people for instance---remember, OKC goes a long long way from the inner city---it reaches all the way into Pott County one square mile; now, why in the world do you suppose that OKC needs to control people that far out?) leave us alone out in the country.

I never :surrender

Why are we comparing Hitler to OKC development? Does that make any sense? Please keep the nonsense analogies out of this thread.

This thread is just discussing downtown OKC. In almost every other city I have visited in the last 3 months, downtown condo buildings are going up like gangbusters. Maybe it can happen here too. In Vancouver (Canada) they don't even have enough construction cranes to meet demand. Even in Dallas, land of sprawl, they are building several condo high rises downtown.

The point is: "They gave a little piece of Chevoslovakia to Hitler thinking they could get along with him if he were appeased and ignored," so I do not ignore anyone when it comes to expansions of cities for the most part. If they are ignored, they seem to begin to thinking the ignoring in some way is approval when it is simply a means of hoping they stay away.

While I agree that is the reason for the thread, and I have no problem with your discussing it to the extent you want, I stand by my desire that you and any others who might be reading (Town Hall people for instance---remember, OKC goes a long long way from the inner city---it reaches all the way into Pott County one square mile; now, why in the world do you suppose that OKC needs to control people that far out?) leave us alone out in the country.

I never :surrender

Perhaps you should start a petition to deannex the area where you live from Oklahoma City and start a corresponding thread as well.

:backtotop


I know I for one would love to live in downtown. Imagine getting up in the morning and have a stunning view of downtown right in your window.

High rise living in even a small urban area like OKC is interesting. I have lived at Regency Tower on a couple of occasions and the views are extraordinary as is the location. I feel certain that high rises will come, but not until the market has been more throughly tested by some of the lower cost developments now in the works. Typically, the construction costs and resulting rental rates or purchase prices and monthly conco fees move prices way up. It will be interesting to see how Tanenbaum's conversion of the Citizen Tower goes.

The point is: "They gave a little piece of Chevoslovakia to Hitler thinking they could get along with him if he were appeased and ignored,"

Wow! Hitler references!

Don't worry, I seriously doubt that a high rise in downtown OKC would even cast a shadow on your bunker in the sticks, let alone require hostel occupations or world appeasement to get it done.

:LolLolLol

Oklahoma City probably doesn't need that little sliver of Pottawatomie County, but every time I think about deannexation, I think about St. Louis, forever stuck in its 61 square miles with literally no place to go.

1950 population: 856,796
2000 population: 348,189

. . . but every time I think about deannexation, I think about St. Louis, forever stuck in its 61 square miles with literally no place to go.
1950 population: 856,796 2000 population: 348,189

Except maybe up.

Check this out. http://www.downtownstlouis.org/web/living.jsp

Downtown St. Louis is home to 9,000 residents living in 6,000 lofts, condos, apartments, townhouses and single-family homes. With over one thousand units under construction and in development, downtown St. Louis is becoming one of the most sought after neighborhoods in the area.

Open House Schedule
The Downtown St. Louis Partnership holds housing tours twice a year that feature new and existing living opportunities in downtown.

Housing Fairs
The Downtown St. Louis Partnership has put together a series of Housing Resource Fairs to promote downtown as a residential neighborhood and to market the more than 6000 residential units in the downtown area to the downtown workforce. So far the following companies have hosted fairs at their locations: SBC, Trizec Properties @ Metropolitan Square, Ameren and AG Edwards. To host a fair at your location contact Madelyn Alexander, Downtown Partnership at 314-436-6500 ext. 241.

St Louis Downtown Amenities
Downtown residents are supported by hundreds of amenities - all within walking distance: Over 180 restaurants 6 Metrolink stops Over 15 bus lines 25 beauty salons/barber shops 33 bars 200 retail stores
5 pharmacies 19 cleaners 3 markets 10 movie screens 4 art galleries
23 banks 10 convenience stores 11 museums and visual arts centers
7 gyms and health spas 2 performing arts theaters 4 florists
St. Louis Public Library

As opposed to OKC where land is cheap and plentiful, Incorporaed St. Louis is a small city in area, but large in creativity and urban quality of life. A big population drop (apx. 300,000) occured from 1960 to 1980 because of the land cleared for I-44. Their population density is still about five times that of OKC. The excellent quality of life in downtown St. Louis is in part the product of being hemmed in with no place to go. Their metro area total population is approaching 3 Million.

Perhaps food for thought for OKC decision makers.

Why are we comparing Hitler to OKC development? Does that make any sense? Please keep the nonsense analogies out of this thread.

This thread is just discussing downtown OKC. In almost every other city I have visited in the last 3 months, downtown condo buildings are going up like gangbusters. Maybe it can happen here too. In Vancouver (Canada) they don't even have enough construction cranes to meet demand. Even in Dallas, land of sprawl, they are building several condo high rises downtown.

Vancouver IS Awesome!!!

Hopefully we can see some of it rub off on OKC, soon!!

Just keep your ideas up there in the city, and do not push them off on us out here in the sticks where many of us like to be. It seems all too often those who just love the city life want us all to "enjoy" it right along with them.

By the way, I don't stereotype.

The above was all that was in my first post to this thread, and I cannot remember what I was getting at in the part about stereotyping.

Even though you say this thread is about something like the skyline of downtown OKC which other than I go to bricktown occasionally (Took in some movies down there three times and walked the canal), somewhere too on these boards, some moderator I think mentioned that the city hall crowd monitors the posts on these boards, I really care very very little about what they build down there; then we have Mr. Anderson whom I know nothing except at least for a while he had Ward 5? hopeful or some such (doing this from memory without going back and looking, but I think youall are smart enough to get the gist.), and this is not to say anything bad about Mr. Anderson just explaining that if city hall is listening, there are some of us who do not want their help, and whatever youall want for downtown is not necessarily something we or at least I want out here.

For a while some years back out here in Pott County, the do gooders were all getting together figureing out what we all wanted, so I finally took time out and went to one of their meetings, and while there, I let them know that not all of us wanted what they were putting together; I did not make a scene; I just told them. Guess what, I have not heard of another meeting of the like.

And to set the record straight, I live in Pott County, but I am not in that square mile that the city of Oklahoma City controls---yes, that is what it is all about: control.

I stand by what I said. Now, if you leave me alone, I will leave you alone. I :surrender

Pete

Except maybe up.

Check this out. http://www.downtownstlouis.org/web/living.jsp

Downtown St. Louis is home to 9,000 residents living in 6,000 lofts, condos, apartments, townhouses and single-family homes. With over one thousand units under construction and in development, downtown St. Louis is becoming one of the most sought after neighborhoods in the area.

Open House Schedule
The Downtown St. Louis Partnership holds housing tours twice a year that feature new and existing living opportunities in downtown.

Housing Fairs
The Downtown St. Louis Partnership has put together a series of Housing Resource Fairs to promote downtown as a residential neighborhood and to market the more than 6000 residential units in the downtown area to the downtown workforce. So far the following companies have hosted fairs at their locations: SBC, Trizec Properties @ Metropolitan Square, Ameren and AG Edwards. To host a fair at your location contact Madelyn Alexander, Downtown Partnership at 314-436-6500 ext. 241.

St Louis Downtown Amenities
Downtown residents are supported by hundreds of amenities - all within walking distance: Over 180 restaurants 6 Metrolink stops Over 15 bus lines 25 beauty salons/barber shops 33 bars 200 retail stores
5 pharmacies 19 cleaners 3 markets 10 movie screens 4 art galleries
23 banks 10 convenience stores 11 museums and visual arts centers
7 gyms and health spas 2 performing arts theaters 4 florists
St. Louis Public Library

As opposed to OKC where land is cheap and plentiful, Incorporaed St. Louis is a small city in area, but large in creativity and urban quality of life. A big population drop (apx. 300,000) occured from 1960 to 1980 because of the land cleared for I-44. Their population density is still about five times that of OKC. The excellent quality of life in downtown St. Louis is in part the product of being hemmed in with no place to go. Their metro area total population is approaching 3 Million.

Perhaps food for thought for OKC decision makers.

Totally agree.

I was just in St Louis a few months ago on Business and while STL is a bit run down - there is a BIG building boom taking place downtown. Not many cranes for highrises but instead they are taking existing buildings and refurbishing them. And there is lots of room to go - even though the city is quite small in area.

I totally think OKC could easily (and should) deannex 300 of its 608 sq miles off to the County(s). The city population would still be above 520K residents and would certainly lend a more dense city on paper!! Plus it represents the true urbanized area with plenty of room to grow.

Our central city mirrors St Louis in many ways (aside from the many Brownstones and Row Houses) in that there is lots of vacant land and underused existing buildings. There is much we can learn from STL. For one, they have a very nice university (Uof STL) just a stone's throw from downtown! For two, they dont worry about being predominantly suburban - thus giving KC the title of the state's largest city. Everyone in MO knows who the real largest city is! No matter how many jobs or people the suburbs have - all of the big city activities and action (and density) lies in the STL city in Downtown!!

I think a ST Louis type approach could not only enrich the inner city of OKC but also give us the density and demographics to support upscale retail in downtown!!!

Isnt that what we all want!!! (And then of course, more highrise towers!!!)