Thread synopsis:

OKCer: Look how much this Tulsan hates us!

OKCers: That's a shame, too bad he has to be like that.

A Tulsan: Actually, I like OKC

Tulsa regulars: OKC sucks. You're high!

Pissing contest ensues. Other cities debated.

8 pages later. Conclusion: Look how much Tulsans hate OKC!

:)

Hot Rod, my earlier quote about NYC & LA as being the only global cities is what my Urban Planning textbooks say. They were published this year. I'm not denying the others mentioned, i was just quoting from a higher source than myself.

Thanks jdsplaypin,

I'm surprised your texts did not mention Chicago, though. It is more known worldwide as a world class leading city, much moreso than LA - but second only to NYC.

I guess times are changing???

What does the text book use for criteria?

FYI, I grabbed a look at the "skate cam" this afternoon, and the OKC hockey team was there, trying to meet the public. But, no one came, no one else, at all. Not a single person, and this was at lunch time! Hmm, first, you are going to have to remove the rink as an attraction on your list, it's only an attraction if someone is attracted to it. Second, define for me "thriving" again?

Maybe Bricktown is so clean compared to New York because there are only people there on weekends? That must really be a big help in making it "thrive". Everyone out by 5pm on Sunday so we can clean up!

Not "hating" your city, hating the hype that gets toss around here. This is really too funny.

LOL

Just keep on bashing...it's amusing. I like how we attract such hatred from you OKCtalkers. One guy says that and your whole board goes crazy, but if I show them on TulsaNow what you guys are saying, they really don't give a crap. Who is the bigger person?

Oh but they’ll be glad to tell you who the bigger city is.

The only shame is that this is the only Oklahomo City forum. If there was another I would post nicer here, because I wouldn’t care so much about what goes on here.

FYI, swake doesn't like OKC and wants you to know it.

Talking crap on the skate cam!

:LolLolLol

FYI, I grabbed a look at the "skate cam" this afternoon, and the OKC hockey team was there, trying to meet the public. But, no one came, no one else, at all. Not a single person, and this was at lunch time! Hmm, first, you are going to have to remove the rink as an attraction on your list, it's only an attraction if someone is attracted to it. Second, define for me "thriving" again?

Maybe Bricktown is so clean compared to New York because there are only people there on weekends? That must really be a big help in making it "thrive". Everyone out by 5pm on Sunday so we can clean up!

Not "hating" your city, hating the hype that gets toss around here. This is really too funny.

LOL

Remove the rink? Why? Heck, you can't even get on the thing in the evenings and on the weekends. The thing is too packed. We tried to go down this weekend, and they had run out of most every size of skates...place was packed.

Most ordinary people work during the day time.

IMO, the cleanliness of NYC declined after Rudolph Giuliaini left office.

Besides, who said the Blazers were there to meet anyone - maybe they were practicing skating and having a hot chocolate on this gorgeous winter day... :cool25:

I would have taken the kids to meet the Hockey team but since today is a school day I decided that education is sort of important to me ... now if it were the Hornets??? Can anyone say Hookie!

ha, ha... GO HORNETS!

I'm assuming their criteria for a global city is defined as someone in Qatar picking up their local newspaper & having an article written in LA or NYC. I would assume that D.C. would come in 3rd if that is the description. Which cities influence the rest of the world. Also most visitors into the U.S. get a sense of our culture through NYC & LA. As for being a national city, Chicago, SF, Miami, Philly, & even Houston are national cities. Take the Oklahoman or Tulsa World and look at the nation section & see which city the article came from.

When I lived in Italy, most of the Europeans that I talked to had only been to LA and NYC. My best friend was in New Zealand during the same time. He got the same from the people there. They had mostly just traveled to LA or NYC.

At one time SF was the largest international tourist destination in the world.

I'm the instigator, even though I wait until you guys filled up 7 pages of the useless bickering? It's getting us nowhere, but you continue to do it.

Grow up already, this is getting very old.

flyincowz, agreed.. the only reason I brought up the instigating reference was because this is one of many times on other boards that you wanted to start a flame war between OKC and Tulsa.. most people don't want to engage in it but some people thrive on the conflict.

I like almost every person who visits this board from Tulsa - there are just a few who like to create a huge competition and want to start a war .. happy holidays

Well, another older topic that I'm just now reading as a new member. I'll start by saying that I grew up in Bartlesville so I know (knew, actually) Tulsa a lot better than OKC. I'll also add that I quit reading it part way through pg. 4. Sheesh!

I can't believe this "debate" has actually gone on for 9 pages. Some points, in no particular order. Tulsa is much easier to get around in (for me). The streets are laid out on a grid, you can make four right turns and be back on the same street you were on previously, going in the same direction. In OKC, do the same and you'll be on a totally different street going in a totally different direction! Tulsa has several fine art museums. OKC has several fine museums. OKC is the state capital, Tulsa is "The Oil Capital". OKC has Bricktown, Tulsa has the Riverwalk (not quite the same, I know). I could go on, but I think (hope) you get my point. Each city has thing to offer it's citizens. Do we really need to be beating each other up? Tulsa vs OKC, OU vs OSU, etc. Can't all this wasted energy be better used to advance the entire state? OKC probably does get better attention from the state legislature, that's where they work, they see it every day. That just means the citizens of the Tulsa area need to work harder to bring their wants and needs to the legislature's attention, not tear down OKC. The thing about belittling another is that you make yourself look small at the same time. Oklahoma has room for two great major metropolitan areas - Tulsa & Oklahoma City, as well as a score of smaller good cities - Muskogee, Lawton, Stillwater, Bartlesville, Enid, etc.

My thoughts,
Mark in Stillwater

I'm assuming their criteria for a global city is defined as someone in Qatar picking up their local newspaper & having an article written in LA or NYC. I would assume that D.C. would come in 3rd if that is the description. Which cities influence the rest of the world.

That's interesting that it didn't list why they thought only LA and NYC were US world cities. Your assumptions are good though, imo. As cities of influence you may be right, and DC would have to be included in that list. However, as far as cosmopolitan cities or "world class" cities, I'd say Chicago and SF have to be included, and maybe more.

Chicago is world reknown as an international city for Finance, Arts, and Commerce, not to mention it is the national and world transportation hub. Almost everything made in the US either was produced or transported through/from Chicago! The US totally would not exist without the leadership of its ANCHOR city!

I find it hard to believe that someone would use "world class" classifications based on whether or not Europeans knew or had traveled to the city. Ask those same people if they know about Chicago and I promise you they would say yes! No argument about NYC, it is our premier city; but actually Chicago holds the business title. It books the most conventions in the world, it has the most corporate headquarters, and need I say more about its transportation options (two airports over 20M pax annually; Ohare 80M, Midway 22M).

I believe notoriety does have some input but I think the NUMBERS speak for themself. Chicago is the 2nd city in the US and IS world class, second only to NYC. Chicago has every amenity LA has and more! Chicago has been established longer and IS the premier city for the whole Central portion of the continent. No question!

LA is the newcomer and is famed mostly because of Hollywood. Without the movies, most of those same Europeans would not think any different between LA or Houston. In most people's minds, LA has immediate (and legitament) competition with SF. Honestly, I think SF is more world class than LA!

My list for US World Class cities would read (in order): NY, Chicago, SF, ..... Boston, DC, LA, Houston .

find it hard to believe that someone would use "world class" classifications based on whether or not Europeans knew or had traveled to the city.

Is that what the text said? I certainly wasn't trying to say that.


Honestly, I think SF is more world class than LA!

I definately agree. At least, it certainly has more class. ;)

Having lived in both, LA just has more mass and more of everything, but SF certainly does many things better. LA is kind of the city you have to deal with to be an international force and SF is the one you'd want to deal with. SF is so internationally linked with the East. it's kind of a specialty world city.


My list for US World Class cities would read (in order): NY, Chicago, SF, ..... Boston, DC, LA, Houston .

I've never been to Boston, but I think you have a good list there.


It books the most conventions in the world

Is that by number of events? I thought Vegas had the most, but that could be largest and/or most convention visitors. I know they sell their convention industry with some sort of superlative, but I can't remember which one.

PS Sorry, Patrick, for hi-jacking the thread, but I think it's become more interesting. ;)

Vegas and Orlando dominate the convention business

Vegas and Orlando dominate the convention business


Do they now?

Do you have a source for that claim?

According to a report by the Travel Industry Association of America (TIA), the National Business Travel Association (NBTA) and the Institute of Business Travel Management, Chicago is the number one city for convention/conference/seminar travelers.

According to http://www.inbusinesslasvegas.com/2005/03/18/feature3.html in 2003 "Las Vegas' 19 percent market share beat rivals in Chicago (13.5 percent), Orlando, Fla., (8.5 percent), Atlanta (8 percent), New York City (7 percent), Anaheim (5 percent) and Dallas and Los Angeles (4 percent each)."

Source was Tradeshow Week.

Here's another article on that. Different numbers from the same source, unless I'm reading it wrong (looks like they measure it by sq foot in some comparisons). Also says that Vegas has had the #1 market share for 10 years.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2004/Apr-29-Thu-2004/business/23759088.html

Here's another regarding 2004. Vegas still rules:

http://www.lasvegastribune.com/20050506/headline5.html

Hot Rod, it would still be inetersting to see if Chicago has the most actual number of conventions. They may not be as big as the ones in Vegas, but maybe they have more of them.

Is it time to start a Convention Thread?

Here's another article on that. Different numbers from the same source, unless I'm reading it wrong (looks like they measure it by sq foot in some comparisons). Also says that Vegas has had the #1 market share for 10 years.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2004/Apr-29-Thu-2004/business/23759088.html

Here's another regarding 2004. Vegas still rules:

http://www.lasvegastribune.com/20050506/headline5.html

Hot Rod, it would still be inetersting to see if Chicago has the most actual number of conventions. They may not be as big as the ones in Vegas, but maybe they have more of them.

BDP, I think we are all right.

Vegas probably does have the MOST NUMBER of conventions while Chicago has the MOST participants (or travelers, number of conventioneers). This sentence does make sense, as Vegas does have the most conventions - with Chicago coming up second on everything I saw while Chicago drawing more people (as Chi town gets way more LARGE conventions than vegas).

I think that is the difference.

Im also glad to see we all agree on our World Class cities here in the US.

:)

Tulsa is much easier to get around in (for me). The streets are laid out on a grid, you can make four right turns and be back on the same street you were on previously, going in the same direction. In OKC, do the same and you'll be on a totally different street going in a totally different direction!

With very few exceptions, OKC is also laid out in a grid, so I really don't know what you are talking about.

Yes, OKC is also laid out on a grid, as is Tulsa. The ONLY difference is that some of Oklahoma City streets are not laid out on the grid.... State Highway 3 (Northwest Expressway), Grand Boulevard, Lincoln Blvd and Classen Blvd. Tulsa's grid on east-west streets are in increments of 10... 11th, 21st, 31st, 41st, and so on. In Oklahoma City, it's 10th, 23rd, 36th, 50th, 63rd, and so on north of downtown and 15th, 29th, 44th, 59th, 74th, and so on south of downtown.

In Oklahoma City, Wilshire Blvd; Britton; Hefner and Memorial are all east-west streets named after people or places. But Wilshire is 78th, Britton is 93rd, Hefner is 108th, then 122nd, and Memorial is 137th.

Nonetheless, both grids are one mile in length, encompassing 640 acres, or one square mile.

swake, I have a friend who went there to meet the Blazers at the Ice Rink. He complained about the number of people there, although he did say the crowds died down after lunch. The Braum's Ice Rink is one of the most popular attractions for downtown in December. So popular that the rink had to be doubled in size after the first year of operation. And, it continues to grow in popularity.

Nonetheless, let's not stray off topic for other cities. Leave that for PMs.

This thread, as I have mentioned before, should really be about Tulsans educating OKCitians and likewise.

With very few exceptions, OKC is also laid out in a grid, so I really don't know what you are talking about.
Well, it was intended as a quip, not a serious remark. The board doesn't have any simple smileys, just those animated things, which I don't/won't use, or I'd have put a smiley after it. But the one I got turned around on some years back - Classen Blvd. And then there's also a N. Classen. Between Walkler and Western you have two Classens! Sorry I can't paste a map in here, but I got completely turned around there several years ago while trying to find an address.

Everybody drive safe today!

Mark

there is only one classen. It wasn't connected before, but now it is.

Classen meanders the way it does because I believe it follows an old interurban route, which connected downtown and Belle Isle. Grand Blvd. is the old loop, so naturally it does not follow a straight path.

The grid is there, it's just that not every street follows it, kind of like some of the other cities we mentioned that we're not supposed to mention.

Tulsa's grid is a little simpler to calculate than OKC's; it's always 10 blocks to the mile north and south (11th, 21st, 31st...) and always 16 blocks to the mile east and west (Sheridan is 6500, Memorial is 8100, and so forth).

What makes OKC's grid a little more difficult, apart from inconsistent block counts (and Memorial is 136th, not 137th), is that the numbered street is the end, not the beginning, of a block: the Shell station at 63rd and May is 6340, and across 63rd street, AutoZone is 6408.

Of course, Tulsa has numbered streets (E/W) and avenues (N/S) once you get beyond the middle of town, which can throw some people. My brother once asked out a Tulsa girl who lived, she told him, right off 129th and 41st. I don't know if he ever got there.

Jesus, this thread is making my head explode.

:) Smileys, obviously.

Can we move on now?

Jesus, this thread is making my head explode.

:) Smileys, obviously.

Can we move on now?
I have to agree with ya, who cares who's town is laid out the best, if ya cant navigate your way around any town then maybe ya shouldnt be driving anyway, it really aint that hard.

Then you haven't been to Boston

Then you haven't been to Boston
Try Detroit...full of one way streets.

I can no longer remember the original point of this thread. Although, it has maintained its entertainment value.