Back in November there was discussion at a Norman city hall meeting for a large shopping complex at E Indian Hills Rd and 12th Ave NE. It looks like it will be a large development. Not sure if it would make UNP the next Sooner Mall as most of the site plan is empty.

19377

The attached image is very small and can't make out the text. How does this set in regards to the East-West Connector? Access Oklahoma does show on/off ramps at 12th Ave.

Back in November there was discussion at a Norman city hall meeting for a large shopping complex at E Indian Hills Rd and 12th Ave NE. It looks like it will be a large development. Not sure if it would make UNP the next Sooner Mall as most of the site plan is empty.

And / or Noble Parkway....many times all these "new" developments do is empty out established retail centers and leave near ghost towns for extended periods. The cycle is wasteful and ridiculous.

The E/W Connector will be on the south side of Indian Hills at that point. I "think" this development will be on the South side of the turnpike on the SW corner of that intersection but the land on the SW side is empty as well.
This will be a draw for central/east Moore and east Norman so this will pull some traffic from UNP but I wouldn't expect UNP to look like Ed Noble parkway any time soon.

The attached image is very small and can't make out the text. How does this set in regards to the East-West Connector? Access Oklahoma does show on/off ramps at 12th Ave.

I will just leave the website where I got the image from. It is a PDF converted into a PNG via a screenshot
https://meetings.municode.com/adaHtmlDocument/index?cc=NORMANOK&me=9719834297ab459c8792ed4494f4831b&ip=True

Back in November there was discussion at a Norman city hall meeting for a large shopping complex at E Indian Hills Rd and 12th Ave NE. It looks like it will be a large development. Not sure if it would make UNP the next Sooner Mall as most of the site plan is empty.

19377

did you look at what you linked??

this is a strip center ..

did you look at what you linked??

this is a strip center ..

Apologies I meant to say that it could become a large development with that extra space. There are no plans with it at this time currently though

And / or Noble Parkway....many times all these "new" developments do is empty out established retail centers and leave near ghost towns for extended periods. The cycle is wasteful and ridiculous.

Not really true. That's like saying all these new neighborhood developments do is empty out established neighborhoods and leave them a ghost town. Of course neither of these are true because OKC metro is growing.

Its a good thing people have the freedom with their own money to invest in real estate developments. Otherwise there'd be scarcity, prices would be higher and we'd have a lot less growth, jobs and other economic benefits.

Not really true. That's like saying all these new neighborhood developments do is empty out established neighborhoods and leave them a ghost town. Of course neither of these are true because OKC metro is growing.

Its a good thing people have the freedom with their own money to invest in real estate developments. Otherwise there'd be scarcity, prices would be higher and we'd have a lot less growth, jobs and other economic benefits.

I too love freedom but explain the current condition of Ed Noble Parkway if UNP did not contribute to it's decline. On the housing front did the rise of suburbs not contribute to urban decline?

Isn't this part of the area that we kept hearing people rumble about Ikea maybe going to? Not the strip itself, but in the larger plot.

Part of the idea for infill businesses like this is that as the road develops, there would be more traffic to potentially visit a business that wasn't in the area. These are good places for new local eateries or businesses that haven't been in the area before. I agree that there can be some element of emptying out other commercial space, but that's just how that game works. Norman hasn't really struggled to backfill the large spaces that moved to University Park. In general, a lot of OKC does pretty well in keeping those filled and it's been the rarity that they stay empty for long periods of time. It's a strong economy, contrary to what some personal opinions think.

I too love freedom but explain the current condition of Ed Noble Parkway if UNP did not contribute to it's decline. On the housing front did the rise of suburbs not contribute to urban decline?

The UNP contributed to the condition of ENP. But, I believe ENP had bad ownership until fairly recently (and now that have done a better job at filling the empty storefronts).

The UNP contributed to the condition of ENP. But, I believe ENP had bad ownership until fairly recently (and now that have done a better job at filling the empty storefronts).

ENP kind of took its position for granted for too long and didn't progress... or even maintain status quo very well. It also was limited in being able to add more development. UNP has been way more aggressive in bringing in more and better businesses and had the land available to keep doing so. UNP has had way more development money available.

I too love freedom but explain the current condition of Ed Noble Parkway if UNP did not contribute to it's decline. On the housing front did the rise of suburbs not contribute to urban decline?

The retail along Ed Noble had some vacancy for a bit but has bounced back with well known retailers, no? Its certainly not empty. And nothing in this world is guaranteed of not declining. Whats the alternative, stop new developments so existing places wont face competition and may not decline? Thats called picking winners and losers and its inefficient and thats a game governments shouldn't be playing.

For housing, where is there current urban decline? Everything I see these days is urban renaissance. Again, should municipalities have not allowed suburban housing lest it might allow some places to "decline?" Even if your argument has some truth, the alternative is much worse.

I was just saying a counter to,

"Not really true. That's like saying all these new neighborhood developments do is empty out established neighborhoods and leave them a ghost town. Of course neither of these are true because OKC metro is growing.

Its a good thing people have the freedom with their own money to invest in real estate developments. Otherwise there'd be scarcity, prices would be higher and we'd have a lot less growth, jobs and other economic benefits."

You are talking about ENP today, not ENP of 5-10 years ago. Same thing with the urban renaissance today. This was not the truth once people started moving out of the urban core to the suburbs. It can take years or even decades for areas to recover.
I definitely feel that growth is good for the city. But not all growth is good. Just because we can, doesn't always mean we should. This project is nowhere near as large as UNP at this point and I really don't think it will ever be but it will still be a benefit to the area around it.

Based on the filed site plan and overlaying that with the Access Oklahoma map for the turnpike. The turnpike would take out the strip center. There would even be an exit here, so it would take up even more space here at 12th and Indian Hills.

This proposal makes zero sense, unless they are doing it to up the value of the land before the turnpike comes to acquire it.

Based on the filed site plan and overlaying that with the Access Oklahoma map for the turnpike. The turnpike would take out the strip center. There would even be an exit here, so it would take up even more space here at 12th and Indian Hills.

This proposal makes zero sense, unless they are doing it to up the value of the land before the turnpike comes to acquire it.

Bingo!!!