Is this getting any play locally? OKC ranks #1 in the United States for Growth in GDP!


19335

OKC needs to get into the 100s, soon.

Not sure what will get OKC there quickly, but it needs to happen. The fact Richmond has 13 billion more is rough.

*good thing*

“Yes but have you considered negative thing?”

*good thing*

“Yes but have you considered negative thing?”

I never said anything was negative. At all. Quite contrary. The 100s are in sight. I never would have thought that. But being complacent is something Oklahoma is good at, so the focus needs to be onwards and upwards.

The point I take from this is not our absolute size at the moment but our rate of growth. We have beat out Austin, Nashville, the Florida markets, all the places that are widely sold to us as being "hot."

Bison wants us to be in the 100s...so do I. We'll get there. Do we look "small" compared to the Top 50 metros? Yes...but guess what...we are on the "small side" compared to most of the Top 50. How many hundreds of metros are behind us? I'd rather be towards the small end of the Top 50 than the high end of lists that aren't even compiled.

Is this getting any play locally? OKC ranks #1 in the United States for Growth in GDP!


19335

We should get excited when we are near the top in absolute growth not percentage since we are starting with a low number. We are 44th in GDP per capita. We do beat states like Mississippi, Arkansas, Alabama, Kentucky, West Virginia, Idaho and South Carolina. If we can't grow fast percentage wise from a very low number, heaven help us. Percentage is what you brag about when you are at the bottom.

Imagine where we would be without natural resources like Oil and Gas to pad our numbers.

I never said anything was negative. At all. Quite contrary. The 100s are in sight. I never would have thought that. But being complacent is something Oklahoma is good at, so the focus needs to be onwards and upwards.

True, I shouldn't have reacted the way I did.

Richmond may be a peer city with OKC in population but definitely not financially. The Richmond area has 8 Fortune 500 companies alone.

The point I take from this is not our absolute size at the moment but our rate of growth. We have beat out Austin, Nashville, the Florida markets, all the places that are widely sold to us as being "hot."

Bison wants us to be in the 100s...so do I. We'll get there. Do we look "small" compared to the Top 50 metros? Yes...but guess what...we are on the "small side" compared to most of the Top 50. How many hundreds of metros are behind us? I'd rather be towards the small end of the Top 50 than the high end of lists that aren't even compiled.

It's good to see OKC doing well. Yes, you can acknowledge OKC has a long ways to go yet still be encouraged by these things. Methodology may not be the tightest but neither are the Lawnmower.com listicles that get posted here from time to time decrying OKC's shortcomings.

I haven't seen anything related to that but irregardless of the overall size that is a very solid rate of growth! Quite frankly I think OKC has probably faired better over the last couple years than a lot of other places. Cost of living overall still comparatively low compared to most other major cities with a very good local economy and extremely low unemployment rate. If we want to be higher up on overall #'s and we'll get there everybody also needs to realize cost of living likely to go way up as well along with it.

It's good to see OKC doing well. Yes, you can acknowledge OKC has a long ways to go yet still be encouraged by these things. Methodology may not be the tightest but neither are the Lawnmower.com listicles that get posted here from time to time decrying OKC's shortcomings.

Well..this is from the U.S. Department of Commerce and the U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis so it's definitely not in the same league as a Lawnmower.com article. The people chewing over this data on the urbanstl website are certainly taking it seriously.

I get everybody's point about starting from a low number and all the work the city has to do to overcome the trainwreck of a state that we are part of. But I also think that over 6% growth is an unabashed "good" and the baby should not be thrown out with the bathwater because OKC is more modestly-sized at the moment.

Well..this is from the U.S. Department of Commerce and the U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis so it's definitely not in the same league as a Lawnmower.com article. The people chewing over this data on the urbanstl website are certainly taking it seriously.

I get everybody's point about starting from a low number and all the work the city has to do to overcome the trainwreck of a state that we are part of. But I also think that over 6% growth is an unabashed "good" and the baby should not be thrown out with the bathwater because OKC is more modestly-sized at the moment.

Yes, sorry, not comparing this data to the "Top 10 STINKIEST Cities" listicles. Just that certain people on here look at those lists as some scarlet letter for the city in the past.

Anyway, the city is doing well. It can do better, but almost everything that is holding the city back are things out of OKC's control.

Yes, sorry, not comparing this data to the "Top 10 STINKIEST Cities" listicles. Just that certain people on here look at those lists as some scarlet letter for the city in the past.

Anyway, the city is doing well. It can do better, but almost everything that is holding the city back are things out of OKC's control.

We need to quit accepting small victories as winning the war. If you look at OK from inside out you can celebrate the small victories with narrow perspectives. If you dare to be honest enough to look at OK from the outside in you realize that we have a long way to go and need lots of help and leadership that we don't yet have. We need to quit being happy with crumbs and go bake a whole cake. People need to get outside their echo chambers.

Was digging to see where Tulsa would rank and found these cool graphs on the St. Louis Fed site:

Tulsa: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/NGMP46140

OKC: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/NGMP36420

We need to quit accepting small victories as winning the war. If you look at OK from inside out you can celebrate the small victories with narrow perspectives. If you dare to be honest enough to look at OK from the outside in you realize that we have a long way to go and need lots of help and leadership that we don't yet have. We need to quit being happy with crumbs and go bake a whole cake. People need to get outside their echo chambers.

We can certainly all agree with that. Nobody should be happy with crumbs and if I implied anything different than I'm sorry. I really was just trying to celebrate a very specific piece of excellent economic data. The truth is that OKC does need to have many more skilled, technical and corporate places of employment that pay real wages ($100K and up). I think we have about all the warehouses and Wal-Marts we need. When I think about my best friends here in St. Louis, many of them have jobs that simply don't exist in OKC - or, to be more clear, they may exist but they don't exist in sufficient enough numbers.

Was digging to see where Tulsa would rank and found these cool graphs on the St. Louis Fed site:

Tulsa: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/NGMP46140

OKC: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/NGMP36420

OKC is 132nd in the country for GDP per capita and Tulsa is 150th. BTW, in 2005, OKC was listed as the 75th best GDP per capita in the world among metro areas over 1 million people. Progress?

OKC is 132nd in the country for GDP per capita and Tulsa is 150th. BTW, in 2005, OKC was listed as the 75th best GDP per capita in the world among metro areas over 1 million people. Progress?

Have a source for that 2005 statistic? I'd be interested to see it.

19337

Looks strangely like the political map, doesn't it?

Oklahoma and OKC have relatively low tech manufacturing, low salary jobs and service jobs. Until the State places more emphasis on primary, secondary and College level education it will continue to attract jobs requiring little technical skill which generally equals to lower pay. Continued failure to attract locations (branches not headquarters) or relocations ala Texas from fortune 5oo companies because of (pick a reason) inhibits GDP growth (not percentage rate of growth). Politics of the State don't help as well. Bottom line there are those in Oklahoma that prefer the State remain a slow growth State. Just my opinion

19337

Looks strangely like the political map, doesn't it?

not really at all

not really at all

Smh. People have eyes. Reality still exists.

Smh. People have eyes. Reality still exists.

yes a map that shows alaska north and south dakota .. nebraska texas and wyoming being the same as colorado and california ..

seems just like a political map ..

yes a map that shows alaska north and south dakota .. nebraska texas and wyoming being the same as colorado and california ..

seems just like a political map ..

this

Oklahoma and OKC have relatively low tech manufacturing, low salary jobs and service jobs. Until the State places more emphasis on primary, secondary and College level education it will continue to attract jobs requiring little technical skill which generally equals to lower pay. Continued failure to attract locations (branches not headquarters) or relocations ala Texas from fortune 5oo companies because of (pick a reason) inhibits GDP growth (not percentage rate of growth). Politics of the State don't help as well. Bottom line there are those in Oklahoma that prefer the State remain a slow growth State. Just my opinion

Damn it. I thought we had run you off of here?

Was digging to see where Tulsa would rank and found these cool graphs on the St. Louis Fed site:

Tulsa: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/NGMP46140

OKC: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/NGMP36420

What's crazy is how much the gap between the two cities grew over that time. The percent difference between the two basically doubled.

^^^^^^^^^^^^
One could make a case that when a city repeatedly invests in itself other investment follows.

yes a map that shows alaska north and south dakota .. nebraska texas and wyoming being the same as colorado and california ..

seems just like a political map ..
Lol. Political and economic macular degeneration.

^^^^^^^^^^^^
One could make a case that when a city repeatedly invests in itself other investment follows.

Oklahoma City, notoriously “happy with crumbs” and accepting of small victories as “winning the war” I’m told.

^^^^^^^^^^
Sorry, this sentiment is a bit too deliberately obtuse for me to easily understand. Could you please dumb it down a bit so that we’re all on the same page with you?

Was digging to see where Tulsa would rank and found these cool graphs on the St. Louis Fed site:

Tulsa: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/NGMP46140

OKC: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/NGMP36420

Good to see both Metros growing. OKC will always be the state's economic "powerhouse" with the capital/AFB, and it's showing. But it's good that Tulsa is experiencing strong growth too.

This has been talked about repeatedly on the forum, but the state really needs some corporate regional HQs or offices to take it to the next level.

Good to see both Metros growing. OKC will always be the state's economic "powerhouse" with the capital/AFB, and it's showing. But it's good that Tulsa is experiencing strong growth too.

This has been talked about repeatedly on the forum, but the state really needs some corporate regional HQs or offices to take it to the next level.

The lack of Fortune 500 companies for both cities really stand out on lists like this.

The lack of Fortune 500 companies for both cities really stand out on lists like this.

Definitely.

At least in Tulsa, our big F500s are really noticeable in the community. Both in charitable donations and high paying wages. I'm sure it's the same in OKC. More is better in this regard.

Definitely.

At least in Tulsa, our big F500s are really noticeable in the community. Both in charitable donations and high paying wages. I'm sure it's the same in OKC. More is better in this regard.

I mean, OKC's do pretty well in the community. Devon, Chesapeake (or whatever they are called now), they are both big in the community. As are Paycom, BancFirst, among many others. They pay very well, as well, for the most part.

F500 companies are great to have but the majority of people work for small businesses. Encouraging entrepreneurship and fostering the growth of locally-owned small business is just as important as attracting/retaining F500 companies. Oklahoma has a very strong small business ecosystem.

F500 companies are great to have but the majority of people work for small businesses. Encouraging entrepreneurship and fostering the growth of locally-owned small business is just as important as attracting/retaining F500 companies. Oklahoma has a very strong small business ecosystem.

Yeah, but the sheer % of failures is so much higher in small businesses, and without those large companies to absorb the failures, that is how you end up in the position Marietta and Ardmore are about to be in.

Yeah, but the sheer % of failures is so much higher in small businesses, and without those large companies to absorb the failures, that is how you end up in the position Marietta and Ardmore are about to be in.

LOL at comparing Marietta and Ardmore’s business environments to Oklahoma City and Tulsa.

It may seem like a bit of a stretch; they use Fortune 1000 companies now.


https://websterpacific.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/chrome_2021-11-17_11-41-38.png

Full List of Fortune 1000 Companies (2024)
Updated Sep 1, 2024 https://us500.com/fortune-1000-companies#google_vignette


232 Oneok OKE Pipelines Oklahoma Tulsa
271 Devon Energy DVN Mining, Crude-Oil Production Oklahoma Oklahoma City
371 Williams WMB Pipelines Oklahoma Tulsa
439 Continental Resources CLR Mining, Crude-Oil Production Oklahoma Oklahoma City
440 Chesapeake Energy CHK Mining, Crude-Oil Production Oklahoma Oklahoma City
442 NGL Energy Partners NGL Pipelines Oklahoma Tulsa
867 BOK Financial BOKF Commercial Banks Oklahoma Tulsa
916 Helmerich & Payne HP Oil and Gas Equipment, Services Oklahoma Tulsa
963 OGE Energy OGE Utilities: Gas and Electric Oklahoma Oklahoma City
983 Alliance Resource Partners ARLP Mining, Crude-Oil Production Oklahoma Tulsa

Oklahoma City's three largest are 271 Devon Energy DVN - 439 Continental Resources - 440 Chesapeake Energy CHK*
Tulsa's three largest are 232 Oneok - 371 Williams WMB Pipelines - 442 NGL Energy Partners NG
*Chesapeake is now Expand Energy, you're probably see an official higher (OKC's Largest) update next listing.

^ That list paints an even more disappointing picture. Only 10 companies on the entire Fortune 1000?! Granted it looks like Love's, QuickTrip, Hobby Lobby aren't on there for some reason, but even with them only around 13. Surprised to not see Paycom on there.

^ That list is even more damning of the state. Only 10 companies on the entire Fortune 1000?! Granted it looks like Love's, QuickTrip, Hobby Lobby aren't on there for some reason, but even with them only around 13. Surprised to not see Paycom on there.

They are private companies. Not public. FORTUNE companies are all public. Love's, QT, Hobby Lobby, all would be top 500 companies if they were public.

^ That list paints an even more disappointing picture. Only 10 companies on the entire Fortune 1000?! Granted it looks like Love's, QuickTrip, Hobby Lobby aren't on there for some reason, but even with them only around 13. Surprised to not see Paycom on there.

Almost all oil and gas companies. Memphis has 6 Fortune 1000 companies alone.

Damn it. I thought we had run you off of here? Again, DC Sooner stated it was just his own opinion in which he is entitled . In many ways he is correct regarding low growth for the State and OKC. No corporate HQ's for OKC or Oklahoma in many years. I have stated this many times too!

19337

Looks strangely like the political map, doesn't it?

Looks more like a map of the income level it takes to live comfortably there.

Looks more like a map of the income level it takes to live comfortably there.

GDP has nothing to do with cost of living. It has to do with value created. When you have little value created you are generally creating low value products or low volumes, which translates into low income and little demand, which decreases the cost of living and increases poverty. It often translates into low educational levels as either there is low demand for skilled and educated employees because what is being produced isn't of a complex or technical nature, and there is less tax money (particularly property tax) to support a good educational system preK-12. All these things tend to influence how people think about their government and people who's lives are less privileged tend to blame institutions for their problems. That is likely why GDP maps may resemble political leanings maps.

That is likely why GDP maps may resemble political leanings maps.

except they don't at all ..

Again, DC Sooner stated it was just his own opinion in which he is entitled . In many ways he is correct regarding low growth for the State and OKC. No corporate HQ's for OKC or Oklahoma in many years. I have stated this many times too!

Don’t mention his name…it may bring about his return.

Well stated

Beetlejuice

Don’t mention his name…it may bring about his return.



Never left lol. I just read some of he posts and realize why my home State struggles so badly relative to other places

except they don't at all ..

Some people have blinders.

Some people have blinders.

Life is how you make it.

Some people have blinders.

yep ... clearly ..

Life is how you make it.

There seems to be a failure to understand how lack of an educated work force and reliance on low value-added industry, as well as protectionism vs, excellence, and lack of investable capital produces low GDP numbers. Those states also seem to be of a common political belief. There is a pretty clear separation in gdp from the coasts vs the interior low population, less educated and more agrarian states. Florida and Texas are enhanced with big population centers investing billions in high value industries and attracting educated and trained workers from other areas.

There seems to be a failure to understand how lack of an educated work force and reliance on low value-added industry, as well as protectionism vs, excellence, and lack of investable capital produces low GDP numbers. Those states also seem to be of a common political belief. There is a pretty clear separation in gdp from the coasts vs the interior low population, less educated and more agrarian states. Florida and Texas are enhanced with big population centers investing billions in high value industries and attracting educated and trained workers from other areas.

I still don't see Texas as some bastion of education. They bring in people for their relocation, but those are based basically off money being given to them by the Legislature down there. They have so much oil and gas money, they make fully guaranteed incentive offers to companies that Oklahoma just can't do.

It has helped them immensely, so bully on them for that. But let's stop making them seem like they are educating their students so, so, so much better than Oklahoma is.

I still don't see Texas as some bastion of education..

Like everywhere it depends on where you live.

My family lived in an area on the Texas Gulf Coast with a population of about 60,000 whose schools were supported by property taxes on 20 - 25 billion dollars of petrochemical infrastucture. The public school facilities were outstanding as was the staff; as good or better as any private school here in OKC. And probably more important, was the highly educated work force operating those petrochemical facilities who value education for their kids and work to ensure it happens. All my kids got excellent educations, preK - 12 in those public schools.

I still don't see Texas as some bastion of education. They bring in people for their relocation, but those are based basically off money being given to them by the Legislature down there. They have so much oil and gas money, they make fully guaranteed incentive offers to companies that Oklahoma just can't do.

It has helped them immensely, so bully on them for that. But let's stop making them seem like they are educating their students so, so, so much better than Oklahoma is.
You are right with their rural areas. But Houston, Dallas, Austin, San Antonio areas all drive the growth in Texas and they value education in those areas (especially higher ed) and have huge trained work forces … way more than OK. You can’t attract companies with incentives if they can’t get the work done once they are here.

.



They are private companies. Not public. FORTUNE companies are all public. Love's, QT, Hobby Lobby, all would be top 500 companies if they were public.

Good observation Bison34:

List of largest private companies: https://www.forbes.com/lists/top-private-companies/


11 - Love's Petroleum industry and Retail - 26.5 - 40,000 Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, also
20. Quik Trips (Tulsa),
59. Continental Resources (OKC),
69. Hobby Lobby Stores (OKC)

.





List of largest private companies: https://www.forbes.com/lists/top-private-companies/


11 - Love's Petroleum industry and Retail - 26.5 - 40,000 Oklahoma City, Oklahoma









11, 20, 59, and 69 on the list. Didn't realize Continental was private.

11, 20, 59, and 69 on the list. Didn't realize Continental was private.

HH bought the rest of it (that he didn't already own) a few years ago ..