This is getting some buzz in St. Louis because it's the first time in a while STL has been a top 10 market. Get a load of who is #2!

Cool !!!

This is getting some buzz in St. Louis because it's the first time in a while STL has been a top 10 market. Get a load of who is #2!Interesting that Tulsa is not on the list, although it may not be large enough to qualify.

Interesting that Tulsa is not on the list, although it may not be large enough to qualify.

Top 50 MSA’s - Tulsa is #54

Top 50 MSA’s - Tulsa is #54

So what was Tulsa's MSA Employment growth rate?

So what was Tulsa's MSA Employment growth rate?

According to my math with data from St Louis Fed, 2.9%. 466 ->479.5.

Great news that both metros employment bases are growing. The state as a whole really just needs a few more F500 size company headquarters to push things over the edge. Easier said than done, but it would be great to snag a relocation or two.

According to my math with data from St Louis Fed, 2.9%. 466 ->479.5.

Great news that both metros employment bases are growing. The state as a whole really just needs a few more F500 size company headquarters to push things over the edge. Easier said than done, but it would be great to snag a relocation or two. I am a little perplexed in what has pushed the growth in the State? There has not been major announcements of any huge corporations moving to the State or any companies that have grown by leaps and bounds.? Please enlighten me on this growth rate? It would be a huge get to land 2-3 major corporate relocations. Many people believe on this thread that it is a very rare feat. Just look to the cities directly South in the state of Texas. They are proof that it can be done.

I am a little perplexed in what has pushed the growth in the State? There has not been major announcements of any huge corporations moving to the State or any companies that have grown by leaps and bounds.? Please enlighten me on this growth rate? It would be a huge get to land 2-3 major corporate relocations. Many people believe on this thread that it is a very rare feat. Just look to the cities directly South in the state of Texas. They are proof that it can be done.

Those cities in Texas have more money than God, and use it to lure companies there. Oklahoma doesn't have that.

It is possible. But I know quite a few companies in the OKC area that are growing organically, to the point they hire 100 or 200 a year, with pretty good pay, as well.

You are correct, it can happen. But they reason Texas has gotten so many is not because they are a bastion of education or a progressive haven. They give massive incentives to companies to move there, ironically off the back of huge oil and gas revenues.

Those cities in Texas have more money than God, and use it to lure companies there. Oklahoma doesn't have that.

It is possible. But I know quite a few companies in the OKC area that are growing organically, to the point they hire 100 or 200 a year, with pretty good pay, as well.

You are correct, it can happen. But they reason Texas has gotten so many is not because they are a bastion of education or a progressive haven. They give massive incentives to companies to move there, ironically off the back of huge oil and gas revenues. Just my "personal" opinion, I feel Oklahoma has not diversified enough from the O&G sector. Staying the same is not progress! Oklahoma must attempt and try with incentives. It helps if our residents feel good and have pride for the State. The ball is in our court. Where do we take it??

OKC is. They are massively recruiting in the Healthcare sector to fill and enhance the "Innovation District" and the greater Oklahoma Health Center. The city is also working hard to grow the aerospace sector even further, including more than just at Tinker and Will Rogers International Airport, but sites at CE Page Airport and elsewhere throughout the city/metro. I know these are only two sectors but it does show OKC building on its strengths trying to build critical mass of jobs outside of the Oil & Gas sector.

What I'd like to also see OKC do, in addition to trying to incentivize/recruit other sectors (such as IT), is if OKC could somehow encourage existing energy sector businesses to adopt new technologies with research and development here. I think that is also the point of the Innovation District but I'd really like to see Devon for example possibly get into more than just Oil exploration/production, maybe grow into other Energy sectors. Not sure if that's even possible but I think that could be a very easy way for OKC to grow with new R&D expanding upon its critical mass of energy companies.

I'd love to see OKC make a push for Finance and more Insurance, and professional services. I'd like for most of these companies to at least have an OKC presence/office. Any other areas OKC should look to enter/expand? It is amazing to see the growth OKC is having but just imagine if the city did do a TX city style push. ....

I am a little perplexed in what has pushed the growth in the State? There has not been major announcements of any huge corporations moving to the State or any companies that have grown by leaps and bounds.? Please enlighten me on this growth rate? It would be a huge get to land 2-3 major corporate relocations. Many people believe on this thread that it is a very rare feat. Just look to the cities directly South in the state of Texas. They are proof that it can be done.

Job growth is the reason, and that's true across the board. Talk to anyone trying to hire from fast food to professionals.

That combines with our still low cost of living and a workforce that is more willing to relocate. Didn't you just move back yourself, foresaking the all-mighty state of Texas?


It also has to be said that a ton of OKC's growth comes at the expense of rural Oklahoma. I can name a hundred people I've met in the last few years who moved here from Carnegie, Hugo, Duncan, Enid, etc. Seems a good number of people leave small towns once they hit 18 and then never return.

Just my "personal" opinion, I feel Oklahoma has not diversified enough from the O&G sector. Staying the same is not progress! Oklahoma must attempt and try with incentives. It helps if our residents feel good and have pride for the State. The ball is in our court. Where do we take it??

Believe me, if OKC was as reliant on oil and gas as you suggest, things would not be going as well as they are right now. The industry has contracted a ton since 2014 and that went into hyper speed in 2020. It’s doing pretty well right now with everyone being fiscally responsible for a change/for now and It’s starting to grow again but not a rate that would explain the rapid growth of the city.

Furthering the "Texas benefits more than anyone from O&G" argument I always make, here you go:

https://www.governing.com/finance/texas-oil-and-gas-pays-26-3b-in-state-and-local-taxes-royalties

As I have said, O&G money pays for these incentives they pay to other companies to move there. Oklahoma can never have anywhere close to this, so trying to say Oklahoma needs to be more like Texas isn't fair or reasonable. Come on, now. And as PhiAlpha said, if Oklahoma was so reliant on O&G now, it would be a very, very bleak future for the state. OKC is leading the charge to become even less dependent on energy production taxes. I get emails all the time from companies expanding here to OKC (maybe not in 500 or so job increments), that are looking for accountants or financial analysts. It will literally take less than 10% more collaborative effort between 23rd and Lincoln and the Oklahoma Dept. of Education and OSRHE (and the colleges it represents), and OK could get major job growth, because land is still cheap here. See below for a good story about what OU's president said regarding it. Slightly politicky, but a good article that serves a purpose and fits in this thread.

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/education/2024/08/08/university-oklahoma-okcps-ryan-walters-bible-mandate/74703121007/

OKC is definitely less dependent on O&G than ever before.

Chesapeake and Devon alone shed about 6,000 high-paying jobs over a few years and a ripple was hardly felt.

As you can see from this list, no OKC energy company is even in the top 100 in the state:

https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=47829&p=1245432#post1245432

OKC is. They are massively recruiting in the Healthcare sector to fill and enhance the "Innovation District" and the greater Oklahoma Health Center. The city is also working hard to grow the aerospace sector even further, including more than just at Tinker and Will Rogers International Airport, but sites at CE Page Airport and elsewhere throughout the city/metro. I know these are only two sectors but it does show OKC building on its strengths trying to build critical mass of jobs outside of the Oil & Gas sector.

What I'd like to also see OKC do, in addition to trying to incentivize/recruit other sectors (such as IT), is if OKC could somehow encourage existing energy sector businesses to adopt new technologies with research and development here. I think that is also the point of the Innovation District but I'd really like to see Devon for example possibly get into more than just Oil exploration/production, maybe grow into other Energy sectors. Not sure if that's even possible but I think that could be a very easy way for OKC to grow with new R&D expanding upon its critical mass of energy companies.

I'd love to see OKC make a push for Finance and more Insurance, and professional services. I'd like for most of these companies to at least have an OKC presence/office. Any other areas OKC should look to enter/expand? It is amazing to see the growth OKC is having but just imagine if the city did do a TX city style push. ....

Devon diversifying too heavily into renewables would be terrible for them as a company. They need to put all their effort into seeking out acquisition targets to grow their asset base and avoid being acquired. The big alternative projects can work but they are often very capital intensive, take a years at best to pay out (many oil wells payout in 6-12 when oil is around $80/bbl) and are heavily reliant on government subsidies to be remotely profitable right now (especially the new carbon capture stuff which ONLY is viable because of government incentives). This is why a lot of the majors that made big extravagant public leaps into alternative projects have been a lot quieter about them lately. Alternative projects are best suited for companies that specialize in them. One with a tech parallel that actually makes sense from an efficiency perspective is Geothermal. Devon has made some small investments into a startup that’s had some success bringing horizontal drilling and hydraulic fracturing tech into the geothermal space which is pretty exciting. That being said, they would essentially have to become a utility at that point which is something they likely aren’t all that interested in doing until the process matures.

We’ve worked on some alternative projects and while we love those clients and are happy to do the work, they haven’t shown to be near as sustainable/consistent as traditional energy projects.

I really don't want Oklahoma to be more like Texas. Why not try being more like Colorado???

I really don't want Oklahoma to be more like Texas. Why not try being more like Colorado???
I would love Oklahoma to be more of extension of Texas rather than Colorado. And I say that as someone who loves Colorado and spends time there but Texas has awesome energy and amazingly huge freeways and roads. I wish Oklahoma would follow.

Pavement doesn't make a place desirable.

The state really should be trying to tie-in to Texas (at least economically/infrastructur..ally?) as much as possible. I'd love to see the state try to invest more in Marietta/Ardmore/Thackerville to upgrade services and infrastructure there. As the DFW metro pushes further northward, those areas could become good exurb alternatives for folks looking to commute.

The Texoma area has decent potential as a retirement destination for folks from the Metroplex who want to live near the water, golf courses, etc. with a bunch of other retirees but remain a relatively short ~2-hour drive from family.

Pavement doesn't make a place desirable.
That's debatable.

The Texoma area has decent potential as a retirement destination for folks from the Metroplex who want to live near the water, golf courses, etc. with a bunch of other retirees but remain a relatively short ~2-hour drive from family.

The money is all on the Texas side, but it would be nice to see some spillover to our side.

this maybe the wrong place to ask this but i think it could tie in how would you like to see the okc area and Oklahoma in general look like in say 5 yrs, 10 and 20? Jobs, housing, etc Develop or encourage the development of southern Oklahoma? or grow more of the metros of Okc and Tulsa? What should the state as well as local governments be doing to encourage more jobs/growth etc? One point I think we are missing is to encourage retirees from other states to move here. Why, not that bad of weather ie never cold for long, ok summers, cheaper cost of living, life styles that they can afford. ( golf, boating, fishing etc) What else can the state and local government do to encourage more retirees to move here.

^ Health care. Comparing the states, Oklahoma is the last place a retiree would come to based on that metric. 51st in this medicare ranking.
https://medicareguide.com/best-states-for-elderly-healthcare-340840

That's debatable.

You can debate it but it’s not inaccurate to say that the worst experiences in Texas happen on the pavement. I’m getting to where I prefer West Texas (not West, TX) and the panhandle over anywhere east of I-35W because it still feels like Texas, not like California with cowboy hats.

The state really should be trying to tie-in to Texas (at least economically/infrastructur..ally?) as much as possible. I'd love to see the state try to invest more in Marietta/Ardmore/Thackerville to upgrade services and infrastructure there. As the DFW metro pushes further northward, those areas could become good exurb alternatives for folks looking to commute.

I don't expect commuters are looking for paying the Oklahoma income tax. There is still lots of room left in northern Texas. And gas prices are high. All electric cars aren't strongly catching on.

I admit that outside the Okc and Tulsa metro areas, health care is not good for the most part. In the metro areas there are some decent doctors and care. I am just saying weighing everything, the Okc and Tulsa metros can be an option for some people for a good place to retire.

I admit that outside the Okc and Tulsa metro areas, health care is not good for the most part. In the metro areas there are some decent doctors and care. I am just saying weighing everything, the Okc and Tulsa metros can be an option for some people for a good place to retire.

I'm retirement age, but, I got no idea why we would want more of us here? We don't have jobs; get a discount on any tax; call 911 every other week; don't have kids, so we are anti-growth and anti-school spending; we vote religiously (and religiously) against anything that will affect me in any way or offend my church; and want everything to be exactly the way it was when I moved here.

The state really should be trying to tie-in to Texas (at least economically/infrastructur..ally?) as much as possible. I'd love to see the state try to invest more in Marietta/Ardmore/Thackerville to upgrade services and infrastructure there. As the DFW metro pushes further northward, those areas could become good exurb alternatives for folks looking to commute.

I've never understood why the Heartland Flyer doesn't have a Sanger/Denton stop between Gainesville and Fort Worth. It's bizarre to stop in every small Oklahoma town and then go 1.5 hours without a stop past a lot of people. If they added that stop and ran it 2 times a day each way instead of once, I think that could also increase the connection between north Texas and OKC.

A lot about the Heartland Flyer doesn’t make a lot of sense. It’s odd because it seems like an easy route to improve and have a lot of success with. It’s a fairly straightforward route and could be higher speed. Remove a few OK stops and add a Denton one, increase speed, and add a frequency and boom.

I'm retirement age, but, I got no idea why we would want more of us here? We don't have jobs; get a discount on any tax; call 911 every other week; don't have kids, so we are anti-growth and anti-school spending; we vote religiously (and religiously) against anything that will affect me in any way or offend my church; and want everything to be exactly the way it was when I moved here.

Sarcasm?

I've never understood why the Heartland Flyer doesn't have a Sanger/Denton stop between Gainesville and Fort Worth. It's bizarre to stop in every small Oklahoma town and then go 1.5 hours without a stop past a lot of people. If they added that stop and ran it 2 times a day each way instead of once, I think that could also increase the connection between north Texas and OKC.

I expected the stop differences may have come from what backers in the two states wanted from it, and since are partially subsidizing may have some influence on where stops are located in their state. With the next plausible reason was low interest in the cities that seem logical to stop in to build/refurbish/maintain a station.

A trending post on the OKC subreddit really shows the growth of the metro over the last 40 years as seen from space: https://www.reddit.com/r/okc/comments/1eotbax/40_year_difference/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

I wonder what a shot from 2064 will look like

Sarcasm?

Not totally. People stay in retirement communities for 10 years, maybe 15, before they go back to where their children can take care of them. We olds are generally very conservative, afraid of meeting Jesus, and selfish.

I understand where you're coming from, Dob. It's a little harsh; I mean, we'll all be "old" one day and I would like to hope we wouldn't actively be discouraged from making our homes where we choose.

But I do think "attracting retirees" should not be a fundamental growth strategy of OKC. We can't compete with better climates and anyway, from a purely crass standpoint, older people have lesser amounts of time left. A better plan is to continue to focus on improving quality of life, look for economic and corporate sectors that make sense and help us diversify the economy, and put more resources into the start-up ecosystem. MUCH stronger educational institutions and a welcoming environment for immigrants, who are younger, and start companies at a much higher rate than native-born Americans, will help tremendously.

Not totally. People stay in retirement communities for 10 years, maybe 15, before they go back to where their children can take care of them. We olds are generally very conservative, afraid of meeting Jesus, and selfish.
Thats a cynical take on older people. Most of my retired friends patronize local businesses, are loyal to their communities, do public service, do mentoring, make investments, go to church and give generously. They have hobbies. They have families who visit them. If they can afford, they travel. They are not just waiting to die.

Duplicate

Thats a cynical take on older people. Most of my retired friends patronize local businesses, are loyal to their communities, do public service, do mentoring, make investments, go to church and give generously. They have hobbies. They have families who visit them. If they can afford, they travel. They are not just waiting to die.

Read post number 28 and respond to that. Remember, I am in my 60s and talking about my age and older. If you have rich friends who give generously, more power to them. How many of those people want to move to Oklahoma and give generously from out of state?

Devon diversifying too heavily into renewables would be terrible for them as a company. They need to put all their effort into seeking out acquisition targets to grow their asset base and avoid being acquired. The big alternative projects can work but they are often very capital intensive, take a years at best to pay out (many oil wells payout in 6-12 when oil is around $80/bbl) and are heavily reliant on government subsidies to be remotely profitable right now (especially the new carbon capture stuff which ONLY is viable because of government incentives). This is why a lot of the majors that made big extravagant public leaps into alternative projects have been a lot quieter about them lately. Alternative projects are best suited for companies that specialize in them. One with a tech parallel that actually makes sense from an efficiency perspective is Geothermal. Devon has made some small investments into a startup that’s had some success bringing horizontal drilling and hydraulic fracturing tech into the geothermal space which is pretty exciting. That being said, they would essentially have to become a utility at that point which is something they likely aren’t all that interested in doing until the process matures.

We’ve worked on some alternative projects and while we love those clients and are happy to do the work, they haven’t shown to be near as sustainable/consistent as traditional energy projects.

Phi, totally agree with you. Maybe I should have said different co's than Devon or Chesapeake, but I only mentioned them because they are more or less our showcase companies. But yes I agree with you it wouldn't be a good idea for Devon for the time being given the capital exposure needed. I just wish there were some OKC companies that could specialize in it and/or rise up so to diversify the energy sector here even more. That was my main point and wish - but here you on the specifics. ...

Read post number 28 and respond to that. Remember, I am in my 60s and talking about my age and older. If you have rich friends who give generously, more power to them. How many of those people want to move to Oklahoma and give generously from out of state?
My friends aren necessarily “rich”, but they are involved and good citizens. Most are well older than you. They just aren’t at the end of their usefulness to the community and they don't feel like they are. The implication that older people shouldn't be desired as a part of the community is wrong.

My friends aren necessarily “rich”, but they are involved and good citizens. Most are well older than you. They just aren’t at the end of their usefulness to the community and they don't feel like they are. The implication that older people shouldn't be desired as a part of the community is wrong.

I think you are placing a negative intent upon me that is not intended. I have a clear-eyed understanding of old people, how we think and act. I would never suggest we/they aren't desired as citizens and neighbors.

But, I don't think Oklahoma is a good place for a retirement community, like The Villages in Florida, or the area down by Georgetown Texas. Too cold in the winter. And I don't think it is a good demographic to seek for sustained growth, since I think the time in market is relatively short, and health and welfare needs are more specific to our demographic.

I think you are placing a negative intent upon me that is not intended. I have a clear-eyed understanding of old people, how we think and act. I would never suggest we/they aren't desired as citizens and neighbors.

But, I don't think Oklahoma is a good place for a retirement community, like The Villages in Florida, or the area down by Georgetown Texas. Too cold in the winter. And I don't think it is a good demographic to seek for sustained growth, since I think the time in market is relatively short, and health and welfare needs are more specific to our demographic.

BTW, at 60 I wouldn't place you in the "old" category. That's only about 65% of many people's life span. Lots of people are running businesses well into their 70s. I even have one friend who started a successful business in his 80s.

Thats a cynical take on older people. Most of my retired friends patronize local businesses, are loyal to their communities, do public service, do mentoring, make investments, go to church and give generously. They have hobbies. They have families who visit them. If they can afford, they travel. They are not just waiting to die.

i have a hard time keeping track of what "local" even means these days. unless you know the owners or have seen their operating agreement (and any amendments, etc.) , it's very difficult to determine whether a company is corporate or truly owned by local individuals.

i have a hard time keeping track of what "local" even means these days. unless you know the owners or have seen their operating agreement (and any amendments, etc.) , it's very difficult to determine whether a company is corporate or truly owned by local individuals.

"Local" has become nothing more than attempted virtue signaling and "chain" has become a slur by those who often have no idea what they are talking about.

It reminds me of the "Buy American" movement that cropped up in the 70s when the Big 3 automakers were getting their arse kicked by the Japanese.

As a consumer, your one responsibility is to buy the best product and experience. And the truth is you'll never, ever know where that money you spend goes... And for the most part, it doesn't matter anyway.

I think Oklahoma could be an option for active retirees. The state does give tax breaks to retires ie $10K on money from IRA, ect. , we are a lower tax state, weather is not that bad overall, health care options are getting better in the Okc and Tulsa metro areas, lower cost of housing, lower cost of living, an ave amount of things to do and places to see, also center for travel to other areas ie Dallas/Texas, KC, ect., Red state if that matches your political views. I am not saying this is the place for most people but it should be marketed as an option. I am not saying build another "Sun City' here. Just let people in other states know that there are alot of pluses for retiring here.

Also when they come, they will be paying property taxes if they buy or rent a place that does. Cities run on sales tax so they will be buying stuff, food, clothing etc. Guess what, people with kids make alot of 911 calls.

i have a hard time keeping track of what "local" even means these days. unless you know the owners or have seen their operating agreement (and any amendments, etc.) , it's very difficult to determine whether a company is corporate or truly owned by local individuals.

From my perspective, I consider anything with OKC metro ownership local. So, that includes Hal Smith restaurants, Provision Concepts (Hatch, Sidecar, Birra Birra, B10), Good Egg Dining (Cheevers, Iron Starr, Republic, Tucker's, etc), Human Hospitality (Frida, Picasso on Paseo, Oso and Sauced), 84 Hospitality (Empire, Goro Ramen, Burger Punk, etc) and I am sure I am leaving others out. Even though some of them operate outside of the OKC metro, I know the main operations are here in OKC and I am still supporting a local ownership group.

I am not going to try to dig in and see who all the investors are and where they live at to determine if I should eat there or not.

From my perspective, I consider anything with OKC metro ownership local. So, that includes Hal Smith restaurants, Provision Concepts (Hatch, Sidecar, Birra Birra, B10), Good Egg Dining (Cheevers, Iron Starr, Republic, Tucker's, etc), Human Hospitality (Frida, Picasso on Paseo, Oso and Sauced), 84 Hospitality (Empire, Goro Ramen, Burger Punk, etc) and I am sure I am leaving others out. Even though some of them operate outside of the OKC metro, I know the main operations are here in OKC and I am still supporting a local ownership group.

I am not going to try to dig in and see who all the investors are and where they live at to determine if I should eat there or not.

https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=46984

I think Oklahoma could be an option for active retirees. The state does give tax breaks to retires ie $10K on money from IRA, ect. , we are a lower tax state, weather is not that bad overall, health care options are getting better in the Okc and Tulsa metro areas, lower cost of housing, lower cost of living, an ave amount of things to do and places to see, also center for travel to other areas ie Dallas/Texas, KC, ect., Red state if that matches your political views. I am not saying this is the place for most people but it should be marketed as an option. I am not saying build another "Sun City' here. Just let people in other states know that there are alot of pluses for retiring here.

Healthcare metrics are important for retirees. Oklahoma is horrible for this. Weather is not the best either. Insurance rates are also some of the highest nationally

Healthcare metrics are important for retirees. Oklahoma is horrible for this. Weather is not the best either. Insurance rates are also some of the highest nationally
Healthcare here is good, if you have coverage. The metrics that are so bad are for diabetes, obesity, cardiac disease. It is more about how people live unhealthy lives and can't afford medical help, than it is about the help itself. Rural healthcare options really pull Oklahoma's overall healthcare ratings down so far. Rural healthcare options are abysmal.

Healthcare here is good, if you have coverage. The metrics that are so bad are for diabetes, obesity, cardiac disease. It is more about how people live unhealthy lives and can't afford medical help, than it is about the help itself. Rural healthcare options really pull Oklahoma's overall healthcare ratings down so far. Rural healthcare options are abysmal.

Feel free to show any data that healtcare in Oklahoma is good compared to other states. Frankly I don't buy it.

Feel free to show any data that healtcare in Oklahoma is good compared to other states. Frankly I don't buy it.

Please read what I said. There is really good healthcare here, but not all accessible by everyone. And OK is VERY unhealthy as we have a high percentage of obese and inactive people without health insurance - Too many cheeseburgers and fries, too little exercise. Low income results in poor nutrition. Lack of education results in poor nutritional habits. Scarcity of Drs. in rural OK greatly adds to the scarcity of healthcare ratings. Politicians set healthcare policies for the state, not medical specialists.

Please read what I said. There is really good healthcare here, but not all accessible by everyone. And OK is VERY unhealthy as we have a high percentage of obese and inactive people without health insurance - Too many cheeseburgers and fries, too little exercise. Low income results in poor nutrition. Lack of education results in poor nutritional habits. Scarcity of Drs. in rural OK greatly adds to the scarcity of healthcare ratings. Politicians set healthcare policies for the state, not medical specialists.

I read what you said and you are coflating healthcare with disease. With no data either. How does Oklahoma fare in comparing PCP's per capita? Specialty hospitals? Hospital beds? How do OKC and Tulsa compare to Indianapolis? Louisville? Etc. Compare among top 30 metros and show me Oklahoma cities are in top 30%, which would be considered "good" . OKC metro is what top 20 population wise? Compare OKC to the top 30 metros.

As far as insurance rates go, Florida has issues as well as California. Yes without health insurance and/or living in a rural area, health care is not good. i know people in other states that live in relatively rural areas and no not poor states that tell me hospitals in there area are closing up. Its not just an Oklahoma issue. i am saying that Okc/Tulsa might be a good fit for some folks that are retired, I am not say it is for poor retirees.