Wasn't he a "Co-coordinator"? Usually a title given to a young coach who is ambitious, but not the top dog. Kinda like all those "Associate Head Coach" titles that the older guys get nowadays.

I think he is a West Virginia guy, through and through. And a Rich Rodriguez protégé. This is a job he was going to leave for without doubt.

OU's defense is stout, and in good hands.

Wasn't he a "Co-coordinator"? Usually a title given to a young coach who is ambitious, but not the top dog. Kinda like all those "Associate Head Coach" titles that the older guys get nowadays.

I think he is a West Virginia guy, through and through. And a Rich Rodriguez protégé. This is a job he was going to leave for without doubt.

OU's defense is stout, and in good hands.

The defense is not stout, did you forget giving up a 95 yard touchdown run against Navy?

I can see you saying this as the defensive coordinator:

Gives up a 14 point lead: "The defense is stout anyway"

Gives up a 95 yard touchdown run "The defense is stout anyway"

Gives up a long pass for a touchdown "The defense is stout anyway"

Gives up a long run for a touchdown "The defense is stout anyway"

I am glad you are not the defensive coordinator

they won with their STARTING QB ... not a backup ..

He was the QB for 4 games lol

https://x.com/PeteThamel/status/1873132760141111326

This program is so unbelievably cooked. We are losing coaches from the side of the ball that was actually competent this year while nearly all of the offensive staff sticks around.


You have to wonder what has really happened inside the program this last year all around. Not much looks good.

Is Zac Alley really that great I have to wonder?

The defense was good but by no means great. Definitely not elite or as good as the top SEC teams but compared to 3 years ago we’ll take it.

If the D regresses any at all or doesn’t take the next leap it’s not going to be pretty.

Caatiglione has to be thinking a year ahead at this point when they get SEC money & the buyout becomes more maneagable.

Mateer is going to need to have a magic like Johnny Manziel or truly be something special because the defense is not a difference maker where they are now anyways.

If Arbuckle is really a whiz kid & Mateer has a great year they could both be one & done.

Lebby also bolted quick and took a bottom barrel SEC job. He would have been better off in Norman another year IMO but wanted out with the Briles drama I imagine.

Regardless it doesn’t seem like we have a culture that makes you feel good about any continuity or stability.

Aside from the Mateer news, it really seems like the football program is in a complete downward spiral. As much as I like Venables, he's completely failing on every level. I always thought his strength was his culture and integrity, but it's become clear he doesn't even excel in those areas. Quality players are transferring at massive rates, he can't even keep coaches he's supposedly close with, and he's lost any claim to integrity by pulling scholarships of committed kids at the last minute. Venable's has proven he's just not a good game day coach as his teams are always mistake filled, especially when the stakes are high. What's one thing that Venables is actually good at? The only success he's had is in turning around the defense, but that's at risk because he can't keep guys from transferring or coordinators from leaving.

Venables is supposed to be a linebacker guru and he just lost Lewis Carter from an already depleted linebacker room. This is after completely failing in linebacker recruitment two cycles in a row (btw, that's exactly how the offensive line got so bad this year). I think Alley left because he knows that the program is flailing and BV will be fired next season. OU has no competent tight ends and couldn't even land one decent from the transfer portal. They are desperate for WRs and all they can land is D2 players. They're having to take mediocre players from division 2 schools just to fill out the roster. The players OU lost are much better than the ones they brought in as they almost all landed at big time programs. OU has long been able to rely on its history as a football powerhouse, but all the evidence suggest that OU is not a program that can compete in the new NIL world. We just don't have the donor base as other programs... much less Texas, who may benefit as much as any program from NIL changes. They have all the resources to go on a long streak of dominating OU for years.

Keeping Venables another year is just setting the program back another year from the incoming full rebuild. The best possible move is to fire him now and identify the next coach to lead the program. Otherwise, it'll just be a longer before OU is relevant again. Even then, the future doesn't look bright in this NIL era. OU is regularly being outspent by historically bad/mediocre programs like Ole Miss, Missouri, and Texas Tech for players. OU's historical advantages are all gone now. Players prefer Texas Tech's money to OU's past success.

OU may be the new Nebraska, unfortunately, and going to the SEC may have been a massive mistake. With our 2025 schedule, the team could be much improved and still finish 5-7. That will assuredly get Venables fired and lead to a mass exodus of players. I don't think OU has the means to recover anymore. OU has never been in such a position of futility and I'm not sure how they recover from it.

OU is a Top 5 all-time program with plenty of big donors. OU will be fine, with or without Venables.

Wasn't he a "Co-coordinator"? Usually a title given to a young coach who is ambitious, but not the top dog. Kinda like all those "Associate Head Coach" titles that the older guys get nowadays.

I think he is a West Virginia guy, through and through. And a Rich Rodriguez protégé. This is a job he was going to leave for without doubt.

This is true. The reality is that it is a co-coordinator position. Did anyone ever refer to it as "Zac Alley's defense"? Had Zac Alley's name even been mentioned on this thread since the hiring? Everyone talks about it as BV's defense and he gets all the credit or blame for how it performs. I don't know how accurate that really is, but it is certainly how it has always been perceived.

I'm sure he just always wanted to go somewhere and be a coordinator on his own at a power 4 school. The fact he's going to work with a head coach he has experience with just explains why it's WVU. The program may have some problems right now, but this really isn't a symptom of it.

OU is a Top 5 all-time program with plenty of big donors. OU will be fine, with or without Venables.

If OU is "fine" then why have they had losing records in 2 of the last 3 seasons? If OU has plenty of big donors, then how come OU can't compete with other schools for portal players because they are regularly outbid on their top targets?

I don’t ever remember OU (or any other program) have 3 seasons like this (awful with Muleshoe circumstances, to much improved, to awful with injuries taking out almost entire units). Throw in the changing of conferences to the wild west NIL era… that’s a lot of change in a short amount of time.

BV is learning how to be the HC, he has made some mistakes. Some of his assistants are trying to “coach” on name alone. Just heard today that one of the main reasons Alley left was because BV was way too involved in the defense and Alley wanted to run the defense himself (easier to get a HC job if they think you are running the defense, as a DC). The OC left for a HC job (like most do, especially when it is an SEC HC job).

As for the transfers, I would guess that a large majority of P4 transfers are those who were not good enough to play on their current team and are looking for somewhere they can get PT while… while the other part are studs getting a massive payday. The small school transfers are the best of the best on their level trying to make it big time. Why not take the best from the smaller schools instead of the ones that aren’t good enough to play from other power schools? Yes, it would help to get a couple of the money grabbers too, but there are only so many of them with a lot of other schools bidding for their service.

And for those of you that keep saying OU can’t afford to play the NIL game… OU ranked (unfortunately, the end of the 2022 season data but written in 2024 is the best I can find in a quick, non-pay site search) 8th spending $597 million. Oregon (thanks Nike) is #1 at $969 million. In 2024, OU ranked 4th with most NIL deals with athletes at 268 (Florida, Texas, and Ohio State above us). So, while we may not be keeping up with the top of the top, we are way up the list.

All this to say, BV is a great man, but can he adapt to what is required of a HC these days (especially when that is a changing target)? If he learns from his mistakes, he could be the next great HC. Only time will tell.

Honest question: How many coaches that had two losing seasons in their first three years ever went on to win a national title at that school?

Honest question: How many coaches that had two losing seasons in their first three years ever went on to win a national title at that school?

chatGPT says none. i haven't had the time to look personally

I've heard radio conversations that had some surprising names of first time head coaches that started out badly but ended up being very successful. Not National Championship successful but that's a very high bar.
There is at least one though. Bill Mc Cartney won 7 total games in the first three years (82 to 84) at Colorado then won the 1990 Championship.

I was listening to Kelly Gregg on the radio a little bit this morning and he seemed to be more doom and gloom than I typically hear from him. Sounded like he thought the culture had kind of gone to crap and things weren't looking very good. He played under Schnellenberger so he has a different perspective than most.


NIL and the conference change has so many things up in the air, I've had a pretty open mind, but I'm starting to get a little more worried.

If OU is "fine" then why have they had losing records in 2 of the last 3 seasons? If OU has plenty of big donors, then how come OU can't compete with other schools for portal players because they are regularly outbid on their top targets?

This year, because Jackson Arnold could not hold onto the ball, and at times thows the ball to the other team, like to the Tulane linebacker that took it to the house. They put too much into Arnold, and he is not Him.

If Arnold was the primary problem then why was OU unable to even compete with South Carolina or couldn’t beat Navy. Arnold is an easy scapegoat, but the program can’t even field a competent tight end or outbid historically inferior programs for one. OU still can’t get a TE. Doesn’t sound like a blueblood program to me. The problems go way deeper than Arnold.

If Arnold was the primary problem then why was OU unable to even compete with South Carolina or couldn’t beat Navy. Arnold is an easy scapegoat, but the program can’t even field a competent tight end or outbid historically inferior programs for one. OU still can’t get a TE. Doesn’t sound like a blueblood program to me. The problems go way deeper than Arnold.

I was watching Grant Calcaterra this weekend and missing the days when we had a good TE.

If OU is "fine" then why have they had losing records in 2 of the last 3 seasons? If OU has plenty of big donors, then how come OU can't compete with other schools for portal players because they are regularly outbid on their top targets?

They didn’t get outbid on their top target and they haven’t gotten out bid on most of the people they’re targeting. They just aren’t targeting the most expensive guys in a lot of cases outside of their QB because they had to spent a decent amount of money retaining the current roster and they aren’t going to over pay when the double eagle guys at tech yolo $900k+ into the 19th ranked transfer WR from Marshall who no one else believes is worth that. Maybe it works out for them…but the guy isn’t the type of game changer that warrants that type of money when you need 4 WRs (not including trying to retain Burks and Gibson, your potentially game changing receivers) and have a budget that you need to spend on other positions ($2.7 million plus to a qb and a ton to retain the guys on defense). That has been the case on most of the guys we’ve lost on other TE…and i haven’t a clue what’s going on there.

But yeah vibes aren’t great right now. I think we can have some success with Arbuckle and Mateer next year but odds are not in our favor in the near term. 9-10 wins is possible if the offense is good and we’re able to replace the Stutsman, Bowman and the other guys graduating/declaring on the defenses . 6-8 is more likely and we’re likely talking about a head coaching search.

I think Alley leaving has more to do with the reason that Ted Roof was the DC for 2 years. It’s BV’s defense and back then everyone thought it would be tough to get a young, up and coming coordinator to coach under him for the same reason that Jeff Lebby had a bunch of detractors when he was an OC target while coaching under Kiffin (aside from the Briles stuff)…BV was going to get all the credit for the defensive performance. Lebby left for similar money to prove himself under a defensive minded HC and that seems to be what Alley may be doing by leaving to coach under an offensive focused HC. The state of the program could’ve factored into it but it isn’t like he’s going to a stable program in WVU. He does probably has 2-3 years of job security instead of 1-2 and will be able to raise his profile for an HC job (Rich Rod is 61 so possibly even at WVU) so it’s pretty understandable. He was never going to be viewed as the real DC here.

As far as transfers go, most of the transfers that are leaving at a high rate are guys that aren’t playing. Lewis Carter that is really a disappointment from a production prospective and not just based on potential. JA most likely wasn’t going to start here in his 3rd season with his 3rd OC, Bauer Sharp would’ve been decent as the 4th or 5th receiving option on the offense but everyone was ready to run him off because of all the dumb stuff he was asked to do and he was a terrible blocker, Nic Anderson is great and worth the money he’ll be paid IF HE PLAYS…I have a feeling there was enough going on behind the scene from a health or attitude perspective that made OU hesitant to tie up a ton of NIL money in trying to keep him just to watch him ride the bench again. Same for Farooq who was offered way more than we thought he was worth by Maryland. The other WRs transferring were busts of underwhelming at best. Aside from Lewis Carter (who most likely wasn’t going to start) all of the defensive guys had been passed over by younger players or weren’t going to be worth their NIL ask based on what they produced or how much they were projected to play next year. All the transfers could be a cultural issue or it could primarily be OU deciding to put its foot down and not over pay for players that they watch every day and don’t think are worth it…just look at where most of them have ended up for proof of that and/or who else we have on the roster for proof of that .

There’s no guarantee of anything but aside from making a poor OC hire (that I’m frankly still stunned went so horribly with SL’s track record…figured we’d just be really average at worst…boy was that wrong) and betting on some young QBs that clearly weren’t ready or good enough to take over for DG, BV has generally done a good job. The defense has improved significantly from year to year (using ESPN’s Defensive Efficiency metric that isolates defensive performance they were 55 in 2022, 11th in 2023, and after moving into a much tougher conference actually improved to 7th this year), improved from 6-7 after the roster was decimated by Riley to 10-3 before screwing himself with the SL hire, and recruiting has been better than it has been better than it was under Riley with a drop off this year primarily due to needing to get under the new scholarship/roster limit and signing 18 guys so that they could maintain more flexibility in the portal.

I think the best option to give ourselves a chance at success in the near term was giving BV a shot to right the ship with a new OC and QB. If it works, we’re in CFP contention next year with a chance to make a real championship run in 2026. If it doesn’t, you’re just starting the rebuild a year later. Fire him after the 2024 season and you nearly guaranteeing a massive roster exodus on defense that can’t be fixed in one or two offseasons and defense usually takes a lot longer to fix through recruiting/portal than the offense does. You’re absolute floor drops from 5-6 wins to probably 3-4 next year and sure…maybe you will get a quick turnaround like Cignetti or to a lesser extent Elko in 2024, but you’re most likely out of contention for anything for 3-4 years and if it goes further south you’re looking at several losing seasons that aren’t just the result of going .500 and losing in a bowl game. And firing BV RIGHT NOW, as you suggested would frankly be stupid. Do that and we’re winning 3 games next year…the time to do it would’ve been after the LSU game.

Basically to me…it’s a chance at success by correcting a hiring and personnel mistake after already having some success previously vs almost guaranteed failure for 1-2 seasons with the only benefit being starting a potentially unnecessary rebuild sooner. It may not work out but delaying Armageddon by one whole season to find out and at worst probably finish with 6 wins again when the alternative is a potentially program altering player exodus with no ability to backfill and 3-4 wins just seems like irrational fan speak at this point.

What bugged me the most about SL, was every time they zoomed in on him in the booth, he was a spectator. Practically 100% of the coordinators you see during college and the NFL will have a notepad and or laptop in front of them.

He might have had headphones, but never was taking notes.

I don't think anyone knows how quickly things can turn around nowadays. The portal and NIL make the old fashioned "takes time to build a roster" mind set a relic. Coach Prime has showed us that.

I think the current buyout for BV makes any talk about replacing him before late 2025 unrealistic. That a lot of money that could be used on roster, etc.

The defense is not stout, did you forget giving up a 95 yard touchdown run against Navy?

I can see you saying this as the defensive coordinator:

Gives up a 14 point lead: "The defense is stout anyway"

Gives up a 95 yard touchdown run "The defense is stout anyway"

Gives up a long pass for a touchdown "The defense is stout anyway"

Gives up a long run for a touchdown "The defense is stout anyway"

I am glad you are not the defensive coordinator

You are the definition of a casual fan if this is how you analyzed the defense, especially based on the bowl game in which the two of the guys who anchored it didn't play (the players most responsible for that long run…kanek and Bogonowksi (a freshman)…likely don’t play if Stutsman and Bowman hadn’t opted out), and they were running players in and out like it was a scrimmage.

The defense was very good this season, which didn't show to the casual fan because of how historically terrible the offense was and how often they turned the ball over…give offenses more opportunities to score than nearly any other team in college football, then they will find ways to do it eventually… ESPN's efficiency metrics show that as well as several others.

I don't think anyone knows how quickly things can turn around nowadays. The portal and NIL make the old fashioned "takes time to build a roster" mind set a relic. Coach Prime has showed us that.

I think the current buyout for BV makes any talk about replacing him before late 2025 unrealistic. That a lot of money that could be used on roster, etc.

Coach Prime's records:

2023: 4-8 overall, 1-8 in a terrible Pac 12
2024: 9-4 overall, 7-2 in a mediocre Big 12, Blow out loss to a fellow conference opponent in a bowl game in which his stars played (to their credit, that was extremely admirable)

BV's worst two seasons were 2 wins better than 4-8 in better conferences and included bowl appearances, his best season was 10-3 in a similar conference. Prime has shown to be a capable coach but using this as an example of a quick turn around and comparing Colorado to OU isn't it. Cignetti or Elko are better examples but for everything that went into it, Elko had a 1 game improvement over Jimbo Fisher after 6 seasons as their HC (not 3) and he had all the NIL money and donor support in the world at his disposal nearly immediately after the portal opened last season. Cignetti played the 33 ranked schedule which was something like 68th prior to playing Notre Dame in the Playoff...great turnaround obviously but this OU team likely wins 9-10 games vs. that schedule. Again, nothing is guaranteed.

Again, we improved to 10-3 after a 6-7 season JUST LAST YEAR and the defense improved drastically over the last 2 seasons. It seems worth figuring out whether the decision to promote SL and ride with JA was the main problem and whether it’s correctable with one of the hottest OC’s in college football and the number 1 portal player at qb.

If Arnold was the primary problem then why was OU unable to even compete with South Carolina or couldn’t beat Navy. Arnold is an easy scapegoat, but the program can’t even field a competent tight end or outbid historically inferior programs for one. OU still can’t get a TE. Doesn’t sound like a blueblood program to me. The problems go way deeper than Arnold.

LOL, because against SC the back up freshman QB…that JA beat out and then lost the job to…turned the ball over 3 times in the first 3 series giving SC great field position and BV made a bad hire at OC.

Maybe they think Devon Mitchell will be the guy at TE next year when he would’ve been a freshman if he hadn’t reclassified and graduated in 2024…which doesn’t make any sense based on the bowl game…or they think Kaden Helms will be a player after a healthy offseason…no idea…the TE situation makes no sense and it seems that they either have a plan that we’re unaware of (ie. they’re waiting for JJF to take another job to avoid his buyout and bringing someone as a TE coach who’s going to bring a player with him), they didn’t like the guys they lost out on enough to pay more than the for guys they have on the roster or lower level guys they signed, or they’re massively incompetent. Regardless, JJF seemingly needs to be replaced which is disappointing.

You are the definition of a casual fan if this is how you analyzed the defense, especially based on the bowl game in which the two of the guys who anchored it didn't play (the players most responsible for that long run…kanek and Bogonowksi (a freshman)…likely don’t play if Stutsman and Bowman hadn’t opted out), and they were running players in and out like it was a scrimmage.

Yeah, basically now, more than ever, bowl games outside of the playoffs should never be viewed as anything but a glorified scrimmage with a sponsor. In almost all cases they do not reflect the team from this year or project the team for next year. This has been true to some extent for a long time, but it's all but meaningless now. It helps get some guys who have never seen the field some time against D-1 talent, but nothing carries over year-to-year anymore and bowls games are just exhibitions during free agency.

And, in this case, we played a service academy, which are probably the only teams outside of playoff teams that largely keep their teams from the current season intact going into bowl season. It wouldn't be surprising if we see more success from service academy teams going forward because they will have the one thing most other teams won't: continuity. Just like when we see basketball teams with zero NBA talent make a run in the tournament just because they're loaded with 5th year seniors that are literally playing the apex moment of their career. It simply is not like it was before and it seems people ate still having trouble adjusting. lol

These aren't excuses. OU needs to be better in a lot of areas, but looking at it like it's 1995 just doesn't apply today.

Yeah, basically now, more than ever, bowl games outside of the playoffs should never be viewed as anything but a glorified scrimmage with a sponsor. In almost all cases they do not reflect the team from this year or project the team for next year. This has been true to some extent for a long time, but it's all but meaningless now. It helps get some guys who have never seen the field some time against D-1 talent, but nothing carries over year-to-year anymore and bowls games are just exhibitions during free agency.

They really shouldn't count for or against your record at this point unless you're in the playoff.

But yeah...other than optics...who cares if you're 6-6 for the season or 6-7/7-6 after a bowl game in freaking TCU's stadium at 11 AM on a Friday in which half your team isn't even available to play and nearly all of your skill players on offense went to Prom in April? It just doesn't matter that much except to talking heads, irrational fans that are just dying to freak out over something (THIS IS IT! This is the reason we need to FIRE EVERYONE!) and the guys that got to play in the game. The main thing is that they got more reps and coaching time for the young guys over the last three weeks and that they got some playing experience. No one's opinion should be any different based on that result than after watching OU beat Alabama and then lose to LSU to conclude the season. I've felt the same since the Texas game...this was a lost season due to injuries, a bad OC hire and poor QB play...just need to get through it, with hopefully a few bright spots along the way, and regroup for next year. If the results aren't significantly better in 2025, heads need to roll. No one's job should be safe from the top of the athletic department down to the GAs and the medical/training staff.

Edit to your Edit: Exactly, not an excuse... we should never lose to a G5 team but losing to Navy's entire two deep with half of our team gone and youth getting significant playing time just is what it is and is not a reason to change decisions that were made at the end of the season.

They really shouldn't count for or against your record at this point unless you're in the playoff.

But yeah...other than optics...who cares if you're 6-6 for the season or 6-7/7-6 after a bowl game in freaking TCU's stadium at 11 AM on a Friday in which half your team isn't even available to play and nearly all of your skill players on offense went to Prom in April? It just doesn't matter that much except to talking heads, irrational fans that are just dying to freak out over something and the guys that got to play in the game. No ones opinion should be any different based on that result than after watching OU beat Alabama and then lose to LSU to conclude the season. I've felt the same since the Texas game...this was a lost season due to injuries, a bad OC hire and poor QB play...just need to get through it and regroup for next year and if the results aren't significantly better, heads need to roll from the top of the athletic department down to the GAs and the medical/training staff.True. Bowl games shouldn't count since so many players opt out for one reason or another. Oh. BTW. Except for the military academy teams. They aren't subject to NIL, the portal or going pro early. So half an OU team lost by the decision to go for the win to a complete 8-3 Navy team. I'm perfectly ok with that.

True. Bowl games shouldn't count since so many players opt out for one reason or another. Oh. BTW. Except for the military academy teams. They aren't subject to NIL, the portal or going pro early. So half an OU team lost by the decision to go for the win to a complete 8-3 Navy team. I'm perfectly ok with that.

Yeah....hit that 2 point conversion and "We're on the right track going into next season. That Hawkins really showed some intestinal fortitude, and he might just push Mateer for the starting job next season!"

Just remember, BV took a dumpster fire to 6-7, made significant improvements to get to 10-3, then had some massive bad luck and some mistakes (hope he learns from them) to fall back to 6-7. It's completely reasonable to think, with the offensive changes and some health luck, he can get back to 10-3 this coming season... or better. On the other hand, if he didn't learn from his mistakes, the new OC/QB don't live up to the hype, injuries strike again, etc., we could be back at 6-7.

Let's not forget that the roster limits "encouraged" several players to enter the transfer portal and/or not sign with us. OU has been "historically" a top 10 NIL program, so that doesn't seem to be an issue... especially keeping in mind you can't pay every guy on the roster over $1 million per season.

Yeah....hit that 2 point conversion and "We're on the right track going into next season. That Hawkins really showed some intestinal fortitude, and he might just push Mateer for the starting job next season!"

Yeah exactly...and how different is that result? Oh crap, we lost going for the win on one 3 yard attempt FIRE EVERYONE. (I had no problem with going for two in a meaningless bowl game either but if you're going to do it...roll your sub 4.4 speed qb out to the wide side of the field and give him 40 yards of field with the option to make someone miss or toss it into the endzone if someone drops out of coverage to stop him..especially when he's not a pocket passer at this point and our OL was struggling).

Yeah....hit that 2 point conversion and "We're on the right track going into next season. That Hawkins really showed some intestinal fortitude, and he might just push Mateer for the starting job next season!"I wonder if there would be much less doom & gloom complaining if we had won a meaningless bowl game.
Also, if I remember right the O/U line was 7 1/2 wins before the season started. That was before the entire WR corp went missing. It wasn't like OU was supposed to be a titan and then horribly underachieved. But the nay sayers didn't pop up until we started having the predicted losses.

Yeah exactly...and how different is that result? Oh crap, we lost going for the win on one 3 yard attempt FIRE EVERYONE. (I had no problem with going for two in a meaningless bowl game either but if you're going to do it...roll your sub 4.4 speed qb out to the wide side of the field and give him 40 yards of field with the option to make someone miss or toss it into the endzone if someone drops out of coverage to stop him..especially when he's not a pocket passer at this point and our OL was struggling).

agree on both counts .. good thing that guy will no longer be our play caller .... (also the 2 fourth down play calls were terrible) ..

I wonder if there would be much less doom & gloom complaining if we had won a meaningless bowl game.
Also, if I remember right the O/U line was 7 1/2 wins before the season started. That was before the entire WR corp went missing. It wasn't like OU was supposed to be a titan and then horribly underachieved. But the nay sayers didn't pop up until we started having the predicted losses.

There would've been less doom and gloom but people would find something else to complain about.

"Our best portal WR is from the FCS!" Ignores that he's 6'3" and was 4th in the FCS in yards receiving and yards/game with 1,215 yards and 9 TDs and had a 2024 PFF grade that was 12 points higher than Branch (who everyone desperately wants) and 10 higher than Reggie Virgil who we lost to Tech

"We are getting outspent everywhere!" Ignores that we just outspent Miami and Bill freaking Belichick at UNC to get the consensus number 1 player in the portal and did the same to keep several of our defensive guys.

"We've been terrible under BV! We've gone 6-7 twice!!!" Unacceptable at OU but ignores that we were 10-3 last year and the defense has improved drastically every year.

"OUR PET'S HEADS ARE FALLING OFF!!!" - Likely

Again, it may not work out and we may be searching for a new HC in 11 months but things aren't as hopeless right now as some are acting like they are.

agree on both counts .. good thing that guy will no longer be our play caller .... (also the 2 fourth down play calls were terrible) ..
Yes they were. If you're going to go for forth down do something unexpected. Or don't do it at all.

agree on both counts .. good thing that guy will no longer be our play caller .... (also the 2 fourth down play calls were terrible) ..

Exactly...it's almost like replacing SL/JJF and adding to our QB/WR rooms might fix most of the offensive problems...which to his credit, JJF at least did improve.

The OL needs work too but another year for some of the young guys and a few portal additions will help...as will having a QB that gets rid of the ball quickly and can read coverage better than JA or Hawkins (thought he's made some noticeable strides after just three weeks under Arbuckle which is extremely encouraging).

Though even TBOW was guilty of some terrible 4th down play calls in bowl games... 4th and 1 in overtime in the Rose Bowl comes to mind.

There would've been less doom and gloom but the people would find something else to complain about.

"Our best portal WR is from the FCS!" Ignores that he's 6'3" and was 4th in the FCS in yards receiving and yards/game with 1,215 yards and 9 TDs and had a 2024 and had a PFF grade 12 points higher than Branch and 10 higher than Reggie Virgil who we lost to Tech

"We are getting outspent everywhere!" Ignores that we just outspent Miami and Bill freaking Belichick at UNC to get the consensus 1 player in the portal and did the same to keep several of our defensive guys.

"We've been terrible under BV! We've gone 6-7 twice!!!" Unacceptable at OU but ignores that we were 10-3 last year and the defense has improved drastically every year.

"OUR PETS HEADS ARE FALLING OFF!!!" - Likely

Again, it may not work out and we may be searching for a new HC 11 months but things aren't as hopeless right now as some are acting like they are.

Thank you!!!!
If. And that's if we have another losing season next year then I'll be completely on board with BV needs to go. By then we'll have SEC TV money to pay a new HC.
And yeah. I know we have donors that can pay the buyout and a higher salary to a new HC. If those big donors were as unhappy as some posters on here BV would already be gone. The time to fire BV would have been right after the last regular season game. He's here for another season so stop suggesting otherwise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qo-sSTC2YTw

If this bowl was so meaningless, I assume the LSU game was completely meaningless also? I mean, it didn't make a difference if we got to a bowl or not, thus getting those extra practices (which look like they did good for some players). Those who say games are meaningless have obviously never played sports. Gametime experience is priceless in college football, at least for the younger players (still great for the older players also).

If this bowl was so meaningless, I assume the LSU game was completely meaningless also? I mean, it didn't make a difference if we got to a bowl or not, thus getting those extra practices (which look like they did good for some players). Those who say games are meaningless have obviously never played sports. Gametime experience is priceless in college football, at least for the younger players (still great for the older players also).
To be exact. The outcome of the bowl game is meaningless. The extra practices and game experience are absolutely worthwhile. If people posted every possible aspect of every possible question posts would be unreasonably long.

If this bowl was so meaningless, I assume the LSU game was completely meaningless also? I mean, it didn't make a difference if we got to a bowl or not, thus getting those extra practices (which look like they did good for some players). Those who say games are meaningless have obviously never played sports. Gametime experience is priceless in college football, at least for the younger players (still great for the older players also).

Yes. In the scheme of things, any non-playoff bowl is meaningless to anyone other than the people playing in it. Especially with all the opt outs and transfers. Often not even the same team that played all season. They are glorified exhibition games that are only made meaningful by the extra practice and playing time for those who stay. I played sports and have been a season ticket holder for 20+ years.

To be exact. The outcome of the bowl game is meaningless. The extra practices and game experience are absolutely worthwhile. If people posted every possible aspect of every possible question posts would be unreasonably long.

this is correct

To be exact. The outcome of the bowl game is meaningless. The extra practices and game experience are absolutely worthwhile. If people posted every possible aspect of every possible question posts would be unreasonably long.

This is the first time the outcome only was mentioned as meaningless. For that matter, your earlier post stated " if we had won a meaningless bowl game", calling the bowl game itself (thus everything that came along with it) meaningless.

The other issue I have with essentially taking the "we forfeit the bowl game" approach (ok, this may be a little extreme, but), now those that recruit against us can say we have a losing record or we can't even get a winning record. While it doesn't matter as much as the bags (of money) these days, it still means something (athletes want to win).

This is the first time the outcome only was mentioned as meaningless. For that matter, your earlier post stated " if we had won a meaningless bowl game", calling the bowl game itself (thus everything that came along with it) meaningless.

The other issue I have with essentially taking the "we forfeit the bowl game" approach (ok, this may be a little extreme, but), now those that recruit against us can say we have a losing record or we can't even get a winning record. While it doesn't matter as much as the bags (of money) these days, it still means something (athletes want to win).

It means very little to nothing to the recruits. They understand as well or better than anyone else that the teams that play in bowl games aren't representative of the team they could be playing on next year.

It means very little to nothing to the recruits. They understand as well or better than anyone else that the teams that play in bowl games aren't representative of the team they could be playing on next year.

"Young man, we know you are just the person to help us get those wins. Nobody more capable!"

"Young man, we know you are just the person to help us get those wins. Nobody more capable!"

Nice quote. Has plenty to do with regular season, conference championships, national championships. Zilch to do with bowl games.

This is the first time the outcome only was mentioned as meaningless. For that matter, your earlier post stated " if we had won a meaningless bowl game", calling the bowl game itself (thus everything that came along with it) meaningless.

The value of experience was acknowledged in several posts discussing the bowl game.


The other issue I have with essentially taking the "we forfeit the bowl game" approach (ok, this may be a little extreme, but), now those that recruit against us can say we have a losing record or we can't even get a winning record. While it doesn't matter as much as the bags (of money) these days, it still means something (athletes want to win).

No even remotely suggested forfeiting it. If you read the thread in context, it's easily understood that the posts were about drawing conclusions about the status of the team / program from a bowl game. Yes, athletes want to win, but they all completely understand that bowl games should be viewed as exhibitions that do not represent the team going forward. They are participating under the new structure and understand it much better than most fans do at this point.

Just look at OU's schedule next year. It should be just as hard as this year because it's basically the same, right? There's no way to know that. It's likely that at least half of those teams will have different starting QBs that were playing for another school this year. And that's just the QBs. Can you look at their bowl games and draw any conclusion as to what those teams will be like next year? I certainly wouldn't put any money on it.

Nice quote. Has plenty to do with regular season, conference championships, national championships. Zilch to do with bowl games.

Why did 30,000 OU fans even show up for the game then? This is what fans say to rationalize their team losing a bowl game. If you want proof then just ask people about OU's bowl game with Alabama from a decade ago...

Besides, so many of the reasons why OU lost the bowl game are the same reasons that OU regularly loses games under Venables. The game provided another data point on Venables shortcomings as a coach. I promise you that OU's players and coaches tried to win the bowl game, but they couldn't.

Why did 30,000 OU fans even show up for the game then?

45,000 OU fans showed up to the spring intraquad scrimmage. lol. It's entertainment after all.

Look, OU brought 56 players to the bowl game, 24 of which were freshman. The team you saw play in Ft Worth is not the team you will see next year. It wasn't even the team you saw THIS year.

If you need a reason to bash BV or the program or whatever, there's more valid things you can focus your rage on than the bowl game.

Sure, it was good experience for some guys and of course they wanted to win. It's just not a relevant data point for anything else. That's all anyone is saying.

Why did 30,000 OU fans even show up for the game then? This is what fans say to rationalize their team losing a bowl game. If you want proof then just ask people about OU's bowl game with Alabama from a decade ago...

Besides, so many of the reasons why OU lost the bowl game are the same reasons that OU regularly loses games under Venables. The game provided another data point on Venables shortcomings as a coach. I promise you that OU's players and coaches tried to win the bowl game, but they couldn't.
Attendance of a bowl game indicates fan loyalty. It has nothing to do with the outcome meaning anything. Either about the ability of our current HC or about the future of the team. I don't put much stock in the win over Alabama. They might not have been entirely motivated to play their best game after not having a chance at the championship.

I get it. You don't think BV is a viable HC. I don't completely disagree. He may end up not being HC material. But this past season and in particular a bowl game aren't the best indicators of his potential.
Players not playing are not excuses. They're viable factors that effect the ability of a sports team to play well or not. The KC Chiefs have been one of or the best team in the NFL for a while. It can't be argued that their coaching staff knows what they're doing. If Mahommes, Kelsey, the entire OL snd entire WR corps didn't play for one season they wouldn't make the playoffs.

Look, OU brought 56 players to the bowl game, 24 of which were freshman. The team you saw play in Ft Worth is not the team you will see next year. It wasn't even the team you saw THIS year.

Actually, the defense that played in the bowl game is potentially the exact defense that is expected to start next season.

Actually, the defense that played in the bowl game is potentially the exact defense that is expected to start next season.
Somewhat. There are incoming guys that aren't here yet, JC transfers, portal guys. Let next year form before you condemn it.

Somewhat. There are incoming guys that aren't here yet, JC transfers, portal guys. Let next year form before you condemn it.

Nope. It's going to be exactly the same. In fact, we're sticking with just the 56 guys that went to the bowl game. Nothing's gonna change.

Except the co-DC. Just that. Nothing else.

Somewhat. There are incoming guys that aren't here yet, JC transfers, portal guys. Let next year form before you condemn it.

What incoming players are expected to start? I don't think you're doing your homework. The only players who might start that didn't play are injured players—Kendall Dolby and Gentry Williams. Dolby's injury was really bad so he may not be 100%, and Williams may not win the job anyway. Otherwise, there's a good chance that next year's starters all played in the bowl game.

Actually, the defense that played in the bowl game is potentially the exact defense that is expected to start next season.

Yeah and a lot of the guys that didn’t start aren’t going to get as many snaps as they did in the bowl game. For one, I don’t expect Kanak, who was more responsible for that 95 yard TD run than probably anyone else, to be in the game in similar situations next year unless he makes some strides this off season nor is Bogonowski who was also way out of position on that play.

What incoming players are expected to start? I don't think you're doing your homework. The only players who might start that didn't play are injured players—Kendall Dolby and Gentry Williams. Dolby's injury was really bad so he may not be 100%, and Williams may not win the job anyway. Otherwise, there's a good chance that next year's starters all played in the bowl game.

Most of the big mistakes weren’t made by the guys that started.

Id also argue that the reason Navy WRs got so wide open a few times was due to busted plays that were extended because we couldn’t get to their QB fast enough and lost contain after selling out to stop the run which put our corners and safeties in more one on one situations than they typically faced. Our secondary was our only real weakness on defense this year but it was still pretty good aside from the occasional big play. There weren’t that many situation in which receivers got wide open all season against better passing offenses.

What incoming players are expected to start? I don't think you're doing your homework. The only players who might start that didn't play are injured players—Kendall Dolby and Gentry Williams. Dolby's injury was really bad so he may not be 100%, and Williams may not win the job anyway. Otherwise, there's a good chance that next year's starters all played in the bowl game.
Ok. I give. You're right. Teams never get portal, JC or incoming freshman players that work out. The players that aren't on campus yet might as well go somewhere else because OU is the only team that never adds new players.

It means very little to nothing to the recruits. They understand as well or better than anyone else that the teams that play in bowl games aren't representative of the team they could be playing on next year.

You are only looking at the player being recruited by the school in question. Don't forget that all the other schools are recruiting against the school in question. They won't hold back letting the recruit know that they are a better program that the other school. Again, money will take more priority in the days of NIL, but recruiters don't hold anything back.

The value of experience was acknowledged in several posts discussing the bowl game.



No even remotely suggested forfeiting it. If you read the thread in context, it's easily understood that the posts were about drawing conclusions about the status of the team / program from a bowl game. Yes, athletes want to win, but they all completely understand that bowl games should be viewed as exhibitions that do not represent the team going forward. They are participating under the new structure and understand it much better than most fans do at this point.

Just look at OU's schedule next year. It should be just as hard as this year because it's basically the same, right? There's no way to know that. It's likely that at least half of those teams will have different starting QBs that were playing for another school this year. And that's just the QBs. Can you look at their bowl games and draw any conclusion as to what those teams will be like next year? I certainly wouldn't put any money on it.

By others, yes, but not by the poster I was responding to (at least that I saw).

So, are they meaningless? If so, no one cares if they we, including the athletes. I really don't think that's true, so there is, at least some, meaning in the bowl games. Most of the meaning is for the guys coming back the next season. All those practices and the game experience is priceless to those competing for PT (playing time) next year. Plus, fans can use it as bragging rights, coaches can uses wins as selling points while opposing coaches can use it to recruit against you (look, they can't even win a bowl game, etc.). Now, it doesn't mean as much as winning the national championship (no one said that) or even a CFP game (no one said that either), but there is still meaning.

To put it another way, if the bowl game was meaningless, so was the last game of the regular season against LSU. We were already bowl eligible, so it wasn't going to improve OUr standing in any way, shape, or form (no CFP win or lose, or even a conference championship game). So now some regular season games are meaningless, based on this logic.

Ok. I give. You're right. Teams never get portal, JC or incoming freshman players that work out. The players that aren't on campus yet might as well go somewhere else because OU is the only team that never adds new players.

We've already added portal players and none of them are on defense. The coaches have said they don't plan to pursue defensive players in the portal because they're trying to retain the guys who played in the bowl game. The only guys I've heard any smoke on are the CB from Washington State and the DE from Florida State, but neither of them would be guaranteed to start by any means. Again, you're just saying stuff without doing any research.

Most of the big mistakes weren’t made by the guys that started.

Id also argue that the reason Navy WRs got so wide open a few times was due to busted plays that were extended because we couldn’t get to their QB fast enough and lost contain after selling out to stop the run which put our corners and safeties in more one on one situations than they typically faced. Our secondary was our only real weakness on defense this year but it was still pretty good aside from the occasional big play. There weren’t that many situation in which receivers got wide open all season against better passing offenses.

I actually think the defense is pretty good. They just seem to bust too often and give up long plays. I like our secondary (even though our depth transferred) and our d-line is solid, especially if RMT returns.

Unfortunately, Kanak is in line to play a lot next year with Lewis Carter entering the portal. Venables has completely whiffed on linebackers two cycles in a row and can't even keep the third linebacker in the rotation. Other young linebackers have already busted and transferred. As of now, we have a good linebacker in Kip Lewis, a decent one in Kobie McKenzie, and then there's Kanak next up. One injury and he's a starter. He's going to play and, yes, it's a problem. The guy can never get lined up or read plays correctly.

You are only looking at the player being recruited by the school in question. Don't forget that all the other schools are recruiting against the school in question. They won't hold back letting the recruit know that they are a better program that the other school. Again, money will take more priority in the days of NIL, but recruiters don't hold anything back.

Here's what a kid (and his uncle) want to know-

1. Will I play?

2. What will I get paid to play on Saturday?

3. Can you help me get paid to play on Sunday?

I actually think the defense is pretty good. They just seem to bust too often and give up long plays. I like our secondary (even though our depth transferred) and our d-line is solid, especially if RMT returns.

Unfortunately, Kanak is in line to play a lot next year with Lewis Carter entering the portal. Venables has completely whiffed on linebackers two cycles in a row and can't even keep the third linebacker in the rotation. Other young linebackers have already busted and transferred. As of now, we have a good linebacker in Kip Lewis, a decent one in Kobie McKenzie, and then there's Kanak next up. One injury and he's a starter. He's going to play and, yes, it's a problem. The guy can never get lined up or read plays correctly.

I think we’re going to spend some money on a linebacker in the portal that will take some of those minutes with Carter leaving. That said I do think Kanak will play and will be better after another offseason at the position (kinda wish we would move him to H Back…he was a great RB in HS and could be useful there given our issues at TE).