Sometimes restaurants (especially BBQ) have off days so I can give them a pass if I've had a good experience in the past but they were not up to par once. Maybe I had too high of expectations for Clark Crew due to the hype, but I've been underwhelmed all of the 4/5 times I've eaten there.

Sounds like we have a competition between Roger S and TheTravellers on who is the most discerning and difficult restaurant patron.

When you've eaten as much BBQ as I have while I was blogging about it and judging KCBS contests.... You might feel the same way.

When you've eaten as much BBQ as I have while I was blogging about it and judging KCBS contests.... You might feel the same way.

While not blogging and judging, yeah, eaten at a lot of places...

When you've eaten as much BBQ as I have while I was blogging about it and judging KCBS contests.... You might feel the same way.

When you actually understand the objective difference between what is good and great it makes it very difficult to settle for good.

When you actually understand the objective difference between what is good and great it makes it very difficult to settle for good.

That's a good point. At least it makes me feel better about being a BBQ snob.

When you actually understand the objective difference between what is good and great it makes it very difficult to settle for good.

With BBQ, or most foods, is the objective criteria for competition judging? Sometimes "objective" criteria does not fully satisfy the definition of "great". For instance, a concert pianist can play a piece to perfection technically according to the written notes, but others may play with more emotion that stirs the crowd even though there are imperceptible mistakes which the judge might deduct points for. Which performance is "great"... the one the audience loves more and is moved by, or the one the judges score better? Sometimes people are a little arrogant about their own perspectives of "great". Same goes for art, literature, etc. Once you are at an accomplished level, tastes regarding what is good or great can be different.

All critiques are subjective to the entity making the critique... It's why I had a disclaimer on my blog saying not to take my thoughts as gospel and to go try it for yourself.

For instance some people like their rib meat to fall off the bone. If I want pulled pork I'll just order pulled pork. Not ribs that fall off the bone.

I went to Corner Bakery yesterday and asked them about them closing their location and when that was going to be happening? The employee stated they were not closing down and knew nothing about a BBQ place being opened at this location? She stated that they are a busy location and were not closing anytime soon? Strange information??

I went to Corner Bakery yesterday and asked them about them closing their location and when that was going to be happening? The employee stated they were not closing down and knew nothing about a BBQ place being opened at this location? She stated that they are a busy location and were not closing anytime soon? Strange information??

The employees probably wouldn't know. Restaurant operators are notorious for not giving notice of closing, mainly because they don't want employees to leave and there would be no way to hire new ones.

There is a building permit filed for Mission to take this location, and it takes good money to draw up those plans.

Poor employee doesn't know what is coming. It would be really tempting to go up there with a printout of the plans and show them.

When you actually understand the objective difference between what is good and great it makes it very difficult to settle for good.

This is so true. Since I have tried so many places in the last two years, both in OKC and other cities, I have noticed that I am not satisfied with just good anymore. It also doesn't help that my girlfriend can usually cook great food and if we go somewhere that isn't great she will say, "I can do better than this, why does this cost so much?"

If I think a place is good and most customers would like it, I try to be more open to the idea that good is fine at a certain price point. If a place is considered fine dining and the food is just good, then I am usually pretty harsh.

This is so true. Since I have tried so many places in the last two years, both in OKC and other cities, I have noticed that I am not satisfied with just good anymore. It also doesn't help that my girlfriend can usually cook great food and if we go somewhere that isn't great she will say, "I can do better than this, why does this cost so much?"

If I think a place is good and most customers would like it, I try to be more open to the idea that good is fine at a certain price point. If a place is considered fine dining and the food is just good, then I am usually pretty harsh.

Specific to BBQ, though, I used to think there was some magical, mystical process to BBQ that meant I could only really get it at a restaurant, and pay exorbitant sums for it. Also, growing up, the BBQ spot my parents always frequented was Crockett's, so I grew up thinking that was real BBQ.

It wasn't until much later when I learned about good BBQ, and also took an interest in making it.

Now, knowing the care and time I put into the meats I smoke, and the outstanding results I usually get, I am borderline offended at most BBQ restaurants offerings and their prices.

I think a lot of people can cook a decent burger at home. A lot of people can even cook a really good steak at home. Fewer people can smoke a slab of ribs, pork butt, brisket, etc. at home, so they feel compelled to spend a lot of money for even mediocre representations.

Kind of like anything else, I guess, we're more inclined to assign a high value to things we cannot do ourselves, with varying degrees of quality in return.

I don't begrudge anyone their preferences in food, though. I would love the opportunity to feed someone who thinks Swadley's is great BBQ, though, and see if they change their mind.

I don't begrudge anyone their preferences in food, though. I would love the opportunity to feed someone who thinks Swadley's is great BBQ, though, and see if they change their mind.

I still look back to when I thought all the chains made great BBQ... Now after years of making my own, judging KCBS events, and driving across multiple states blogging about it.... I can't set foot in those places and I cringe when someone tells me how great they are... Which usually includes being told they mostly go there for the sauce or the sides anyway.

For the money, I prefer Earl's. Can you get better? Of course, but you will pay for it. Can you get cheaper? Of course, but eater be warned. Any idea how Mission will compare to Earl's?

I still look back to when I thought all the chains made great BBQ... Now after years of making my own, judging KCBS events, and driving across multiple states blogging about it.... I can't set foot in those places and I cringe when someone tells me how great they are... Which usually includes being told they mostly go there for the sauce or the sides anyway.

exactly this... the amount of times i have heard from people after i try a BBQ place they recommend that i didn't like, "well did you get their cornbread?"

exactly this... the amount of times i have heard from people after i try a BBQ place they recommend that i didn't like, "well did you get their cornbread?"

Which is ALWAYS too sweet, no matter where you go, I've stopped getting it because what we make actually tastes like cornbread, not yellow cake.

For the money, I prefer Earl's. Can you get better? Of course, but you will pay for it. Can you get cheaper? Of course, but eater be warned. Any idea how Mission will compare to Earl's?

I actually think the Earl's on Western, on a good day, is pretty good for the price. Before I started smoking my own, it was in the lunch rotation.

Which is ALWAYS too sweet, no matter where you go, I've stopped getting it because what we make actually tastes like cornbread, not yellow cake.

I definitely love Clark Crew cornbread, but you are totally right, of course. I like it as a dessert.

I actually think the Earl's on Western, on a good day, is pretty good for the price. Before I started smoking my own, it was in the lunch rotation.

I think I've eaten Earl's BBQ maybe once... I always went to Earl's for the Prairie Fire Wings or occasionally the cheeseburger.

I'm sure we would all love to have our own personal BBQ expert chained up in our basement or have tons of time to spend learning and doing it on our own.

The best BBQ in the world is probably by some random random retired guy who only his family and friends know about it. There is also an added degree of difficulty in mass producing BBQ. The original founders of these chains probably made better BBQ in smaller settings.

The best BBQ in the world is probably by some random random retired guy who only his family and friends know about it. There is also an added degree of difficulty in mass producing BBQ. The original founders of these chains probably made better BBQ in smaller settings.


No it's actually made by an 89 year old woman in Lexington Texas named Tootsie Tomanetz who as far as I know is still working as a custodian at the local school when she's not making some of the best BBQ on the planet at Snow's BBQ.

Swadley's has mounted a huge ad campaign in the Oklahoman.

You have to wonder how things are going to turn out with their criminal case. You also wonder how the court case has affected their business.

No it's actually made by an 89 year old woman in Lexington Texas named Tootsie Tomanetz who as far as I know is still working as a custodian at the local school when she's not making some of the best BBQ on the planet at Snow's BBQ.

I'd love to get down and meet her. I mean, I'm sure the food is great, but she's a legend.

I will say Aaron Franklin was a real pleasure to run into the only time I've camped out for BBQ. Such a nice dude.

I'm sure we would all love to have our own personal BBQ expert chained up in our basement or have tons of time to spend learning and doing it on our own.

The best BBQ in the world is probably by some random random retired guy who only his family and friends know about it. There is also an added degree of difficulty in mass producing BBQ. The original founders of these chains probably made better BBQ in smaller settings.

You're so right about that.

I also think a lot of times, smoking meat is so overblown as being difficult to do, and it's not. Especially with all the advances in smokers, like pellet smokers.

I love it when a neighbor or friend texts and asks if I'm smoking anything soon, and want me to throw on a pork butt or ribs or something they bought.

I'd love to get down and meet her. I mean, I'm sure the food is great, but she's a legend.

I will say Aaron Franklin was a real pleasure to run into the only time I've camped out for BBQ. Such a nice dude.

I didn't get to meet Aaron but Tootsie is one of the nicest. No matter how busy she is with the cooking she can find a minute for you.

Swadley's has mounted a huge ad campaign in the Oklahoman.

You have to wonder how things are going to turn out with their criminal case. You also wonder how the court case has affected their business.

I personally won't ever darken their door as I try not to patronize businesses which have stolen from the taxpayers.

I personally won't ever darken their door as I try not to patronize businesses which have stolen from the taxpayers.

The bad food keeps me away.

The bad food keeps me away.

Their food was okay. I'm not going to fall into this camp of folks who turn their noses up at "bad" BBQ. It's entirely subjective. Smoked meat generally is pretty palatable. I don't eat a lot of red meat anymore, so I rarely do BBQ, but back in the day? Places like Billy Simms were in the rotation. Even Swadley's on occasion, especially when I was in El Reno. I had an earlier falling out with Swadley's several years ago when I found they had no changing tables in the men's room, which let me tell you--when you are out with a kid in diapers as a man, your options are fairly limited.

Their food was okay. I'm not going to fall into this camp of folks who turn their noses up at "bad" BBQ. It's entirely subjective. Smoked meat generally is pretty palatable. I don't eat a lot of red meat anymore, so I rarely do BBQ, but back in the day? Places like Billy Simms were in the rotation. Even Swadley's on occasion, especially when I was in El Reno. I had an earlier falling out with Swadley's several years ago when I found they had no changing tables in the men's room, which let me tell you--when you are out with a kid in diapers as a man, your options are fairly limited.

Trust me, I changed my share of diapers on my tailgate!

I don't turn up my nose at bad BBQ any more than I turn my nose up at any other bad restaurant. The few times I went to Swadley's, wanting a quick and easy BBQ lunch, I overpaid for terrible brisket. I say the few, because I really wanted it to be good, so I tried it again.

You can read my comments about BBQ, I don't care what people like and don't judge them for it. All I said was the bad food keeps me away, which keeps me away from plenty of restaurants.

You mention back in the day, which may indicate before we had as many options as we do now. I'll strongly disagree that smoked meat is generally palatable. I can't eat bad bbq anymore after having had great bbq. Swadley's is bad bbq, in my humble opinion.

How many of the last posts were actually about Mission BBQ...?

How many of the last posts were actually about Mission BBQ...?

None... Including yours....and mine

How many of the last posts were actually about Mission BBQ...?

God forbid we talk about other BBQ in a thread of a BBQ restaurant. This is a forum, after all.

God forbid we talk about other BBQ in a thread of a BBQ restaurant. This is a forum, after all.

tbf, this subject in OKC is at least as divisive as anything political.

tbf, this subject in OKC is at least as divisive as anything political.

True. Let's go back to talking about the restaurant that doesn't yet exist. :D

True. Let's go back to talking about the restaurant that doesn't yet exist. :D

The Corner Baker employees don't know what we're talking about. :)

I think the BBQ experts read the thread title as Mission: BBQ as in its their mission to find the best BBQ.

I think the BBQ experts read the thread title as Mission: BBQ as in its their mission to find the best BBQ.

:lol2:

We have, or should have, a general BBQ thread for people who want to debate BBQ (which, as has been said above, is incredibly subjective)...

:lol2:

We have, or should have, a general BBQ thread for people who want to debate BBQ (which, as has been said above, is incredibly subjective)...

There is a thread for that, Best BBQ in OKC Metro (https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=29564&page=37)

:lol2:

We have, or should have, a general BBQ thread for people who want to debate BBQ (which, as has been said above, is incredibly subjective)...

I feel like it's pretty reasonable to discuss other BBQ restaurants in a thread about a BBQ restaurant, especially if said BBQ restaurant has yet to exist. Also, any thread about BBQ is going to turn into a discussion about BBQ preferences/recommendations. Is that a bad thing? I get a lot of info about other places in threads like this.

No it's actually made by an 89 year old woman in Lexington Texas named Tootsie Tomanetz who as far as I know is still working as a custodian at the local school when she's not making some of the best BBQ on the planet at Snow's BBQ.

I went not long after it reopened after covid. It was all very good. top notch. But I still think Franklin BBQ is better. Is it way better....no, but better.

When I went to Snow's I tried everything. and it was all delicious but the next day I had franklin and I just thought it was a little better. But it's definitely in my top 3!

I went not long after it reopened after covid. It was all very good. top notch. But I still think Franklin BBQ is better. Is it way better....no, but better

It could just be the day with those two joints. I felt just the opposite, but I also put higher expectations on Franklin because I know where he is sourcing his Prime briskets and Tootsie is still cooking Choice briskets.... or at least she was the first couple of times I was there.... They may have changed to Prime since then.

Tulsa is also getting one of these in the old Zio's building at 71st and Mingo.

The OKC Corner Bakery is no longer listed on the corporate website and the building permit has been issued for Mission BBQ.

I suspect this location is now closed.

It had a fence around it as of this past weekend. Mission BBQ signage was on the fence as well.

I guess the Corner Bakery employees now know that the random customer who said their store was going out of business to make way for a BBQ restaurant was right.

That really sucks because corner bakery is a good restaurant. I went to the Oklahoma City location, a couple times and it was so so. But the other locations and other cities are bomb. Why the f@ck could they not make this work?

That really sucks because corner bakery is a good restaurant. I went to the Oklahoma City location, a couple times and it was so so. But the other locations and other cities are bomb. Why the f@ck could they not make this work?

Different owner/franchisee.

The one here wasn't nearly as good as those in California.

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HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/missionbbq082324b.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/mission101324a.jpg

Per Kendra Roberts Linkedin: "RECENTLY OPENED: MISSION BBQ 13900 N Pennsylvania Avenue OKC, OK Mission BBQ is now open as of today, January 21st. They have joined a thriving market near Penn & Memorial in OKC, and we have no doubt that Mission BBQ will continue to add to this. Thank you to everyone who has played a part in this opportunity, we are overjoyed as always to have helped. Everyone get out and pay them a visit!"

19453

My wife was in the area today and she said it appeared to be completely packed. Excited to go and try this location for supper soon!

My wife was in the area today and she said it appeared to be completely packed. Excited to go and try this location for supper soon!

No you have to go right at noon or you aren't a true BBQ patriot.