For a town that's perceived as having wealth, the roads could certainly be improved. Where's all the tax money going? They aren't the worst streets in the state but for as much money that runs around town, you'd think they'd be better.

I'm assuming all the tax money goes to put in more traffic lights. I don't think I've ever seen a town so in love with traffic lights. To an extent, I get what they're going for. They want to slow down traffic. But traffic speed is better dictated by street design rather than speed limits and stop lights.

Going east from 15th and Boulevard to 2nd and Bryant one travels through about 10 stop lights. In two miles. That's ridiculous. You might think im picking the most extreme example, but I'm not. Traveling west from I-35 and Covell yesterday, I went through 6 (iirc) stop lights by the time I got to Coltrane. 6 in a little over 1 mile.

I got stopped by a light at Covell and Fairfax during that travel. The east/west traffic on Covell (which there was plenty) was stopped for a minute or two but there was no cross traffic on Fairfax. I'm guessing it's just on a timer.

Also, what is with bridges in Edmond? The transition between road and bridge should be smooth to the point that the driver doesn't notice it. Edmond missed the memo about that.

The bridge on Coltrane between 15th and 2nd is so harsh (especially southbound) that I have to slow down for it. The bridge on 15th between I-35 and Coltrane will rattle your axle. The bridge on the I-35 frontage road by Fox Lake isn't as bad but is certainly noticeable.

Those are just 3 bridges off the top of my head. Given time I could come up with more. I don't understand why they can't be built on the same level as the rest of the road. That used to be standard practice.

There's at least lots of good news in regards to the quality of the roads: https://www.edmondok.gov/802/Future-Construction-Projects

I agree about that bridge on Coltrane, always been my least favorite.

I think overall the lights are needed on those busy streets since it's nearly impossible to turn out of those neighborhoods and businesses during busy hours. It may be the best way to accommodate for the traffic of such a rapidly growing city. Thankfully they've done an incredible job redoing intersections like 33rd & Broadway and 2nd & Bryant.

Yeah, ultimately this town was never meant to have this many people and the roads were never intended to carry this much traffic.

My BIL got me into Geocaching about 12 years ago. We've been to Wichita, Wichita Falls, DFW, Little Rock, Ft Smith, Austin, Amarillo and ?. The hobby takes you everywhere. Main streets, side streets, rural area streets, etc. Everywhere we've been the streets suck. Cracks, potholes, you name it. And there's endless construction. I really think the complaints about OKC streets is a perfect case of "The grass is always greener."

The bridge to road transition is a bane of my existence all over the metro. And this has never been this bad in other cities I’ve lived.

My BIL got me into Geocaching about 12 years ago. We've been to Wichita, Wichita Falls, DFW, Little Rock, Ft Smith, Austin, Amarillo and ?. The hobby takes you everywhere. Main streets, side streets, rural area streets, etc. Everywhere we've been the streets suck. Cracks, potholes, you name it. And there's endless construction. I really think the complaints about OKC streets is a perfect case of "The grass is always greener."

^ this.

I totally agree. Try driving around much of the Denver metro, especially after a big snowstorm has melted and is running off.

I agree the bridge transitions are far from smooth, but I don't know that it's totally the blame of the engineers or construction teams. All of the bridges I can think of are blacktop leading up to the transition, then concrete, then back to blacktop. Also many of the bridges I can think of are at or near the bottom of a hill, think 15st just east of Coltrane. The concrete seems to hold up much better to Oklahoma Weather, so you end up with a situation where the to materials don't degrade at the same rate and end up causing problems at the transitions. The city budgets are generally tight, they are having to build and maintain sprawling road with only sales tax. So they are basically being forced to use an inferior product just to get work done.

Before we moved to Edmond seven years ago, I would drive through Yukon on my way to work. They had a huge road project on Cornwell from Vandament to 10th and replaced it with all concrete. I remember thinking wow, this must be a super expensive project, that's also SH 3, so I would guess the state paid a good portion, but that entire road is still seems as smooth as it was when they did the work about 10 years ago.

When I think about places that I would consider having generally good roads, the North Texas cities of Plano, Frisco, McKinney, etc. and most of their major throughfares are concrete (and even many neighborhoods). Now I realize that comparing Oklahoma to Texas is an unfair comparison in most regards. The Texas attitude toward roads seems to be build it once and build it right, perhaps we could try that... Now they also take FOREVER to complete a project...

To be fair to Edmond, Covell is all concrete from near Coltrane to I-35 and the new 2nd and Bryant intersection. We have good leaders, and I bet we see more of that over the coming years. Also... a general obligation bond vote would be great for Edmond.

Texas took some roadbuilding to the extreme during oil boom times when cities were awash in cash. Some N Dallas arteries have pavement a foot to 16 inches thick. News articles years ago remarked how those streets could handle 747 jet traffic.

My beef is that most of the major intersections in Edmond do not line up; thereby causing traffic to "jog" to pass through. It would be nice to see this corrected at Danforth/Kelly

For a town that's perceived as having wealth, the roads could certainly be improved. Where's all the tax money going? They aren't the worst streets in the state but for as much money that runs around town, you'd think they'd be better.

I'm assuming all the tax money goes to put in more traffic lights. I don't think I've ever seen a town so in love with traffic lights. To an extent, I get what they're going for. They want to slow down traffic. But traffic speed is better dictated by street design rather than speed limits and stop lights.

Going east from 15th and Boulevard to 2nd and Bryant one travels through about 10 stop lights. In two miles. That's ridiculous. You might think im picking the most extreme example, but I'm not. Traveling west from I-35 and Covell yesterday, I went through 6 (iirc) stop lights by the time I got to Coltrane. 6 in a little over 1 mile.

I got stopped by a light at Covell and Fairfax during that travel. The east/west traffic on Covell (which there was plenty) was stopped for a minute or two but there was no cross traffic on Fairfax. I'm guessing it's just on a timer.

Also, what is with bridges in Edmond? The transition between road and bridge should be smooth to the point that the driver doesn't notice it. Edmond missed the memo about that.

The bridge on Coltrane between 15th and 2nd is so harsh (especially southbound) that I have to slow down for it. The bridge on 15th between I-35 and Coltrane will rattle your axle. The bridge on the I-35 frontage road by Fox Lake isn't as bad but is certainly noticeable.

Those are just 3 bridges off the top of my head. Given time I could come up with more. I don't understand why they can't be built on the same level as the rest of the road. That used to be standard practice.

I agree with all of this! The bridge by Edmond Golf Club/entrance to Steeplechase on Coltrane is always a huge bump!

I know the city has spent a lot of money on light/intersection traffic systems. They've been adding the cameras/smart traffic systems all across town.

My biggest beef with this is the timing! Logically, this is smart and should work way better than it does in Edmond.
For example, you should be able to catch a green light exiting I-35 on 2nd street heading west and make every light green all the way across town to Western if you go the speed limit. Same for coming up north on Broadway. Should hit 33rd, 15th, 2nd etc. as long as you are roughly going the speed limit.

I think they need a major system reset to sync the traffic light systems. It's very annoying!

I agree the bridge transitions are far from smooth, but I don't know that it's totally the blame of the engineers or construction teams. All of the bridges I can think of are blacktop leading up to the transition, then concrete, then back to blacktop. Also many of the bridges I can think of are at or near the bottom of a hill, think 15st just east of Coltrane. The concrete seems to hold up much better to Oklahoma Weather, so you end up with a situation where the to materials don't degrade at the same rate and end up causing problems at the transitions. The city budgets are generally tight, they are having to build and maintain sprawling road with only sales tax. So they are basically being forced to use an inferior product just to get work done.

Before we moved to Edmond seven years ago, I would drive through Yukon on my way to work. They had a huge road project on Cornwell from Vandament to 10th and replaced it with all concrete. I remember thinking wow, this must be a super expensive project, that's also SH 3, so I would guess the state paid a good portion, but that entire road is still seems as smooth as it was when they did the work about 10 years ago.

When I think about places that I would consider having generally good roads, the North Texas cities of Plano, Frisco, McKinney, etc. and most of their major throughfares are concrete (and even many neighborhoods). Now I realize that comparing Oklahoma to Texas is an unfair comparison in most regards. The Texas attitude toward roads seems to be build it once and build it right, perhaps we could try that... Now they also take FOREVER to complete a project...

To be fair to Edmond, Covell is all concrete from near Coltrane to I-35 and the new 2nd and Bryant intersection. We have good leaders, and I bet we see more of that over the coming years. Also... a general obligation bond vote would be great for Edmond.

It's not so much the materials used, it's that the bridge is a good 6 inches or so higher than the rest of the road. Traffic, weather, expansion and contraction, and wear and tear causes that transition to worsen over time. It'd be nice if the road and the bridge were on the same plane.

Add to that the transition from the street to many parking lots and businesses in Edmond. I get that Edmond is a hilly town but there has to be a way to make the transition more gradual. The entrance for the Little Ceasars drive thru west of Santa Fe on 2nd is a prime example. You can see the scrapes on the cement where cars have hit pulling into the parking lot. But the cars can't take it slow and easy, otherwise they get run over by oncoming traffic.

There has to be a better way than going from a relatively flat road to an 80° incline pulling into a parking lot.

The bridge to road transition is a bane of my existence all over the metro. And this has never been this bad in other cities I’ve lived.
Are you the same The that used to post on LT?

I think most people do not understand just how expensive road infrastructure is. It can be millions of dollars per mile just for rehabilitations let alone entire rebuilds or widenings.

This is the downside of car dependent development. There simply is not enough tax dollars coming in to the city to make the changes needed and there certainly will never be enough to replace all the roads within subdivisions in the coming decades when their lifecycle ends.

https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2020/5/14/americas-growth-ponzi-scheme-md2020

I think most people do not understand just how expensive road infrastructure is. It can be millions of dollars per mile just for rehabilitations let alone entire rebuilds or widenings.

This is the downside of car dependent development. There simply is not enough tax dollars coming in to the city to make the changes needed and there certainly will never be enough to replace all the roads within subdivisions in the coming decades when their lifecycle ends.

https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2020/5/14/americas-growth-ponzi-scheme-md2020

I think we understand. But does it cost extra to have it done correctly the first time? Again, putting a bridge on the same plane as the road doesn't seem like asking too much.

I do find it difficult to believe that there's not enough $ to have our roads built correctly but there's plenty to have a stoplight put up every 12 feet.

The traffic signal timing in Edmond is crazy. I sat at Kelly and Covell from 8:52 to 8:57 this morning waiting for the light to change for north/south traffic. East/west traffic just kept moving , so frustrating. Edmond has spent the last 20 years bragging about installation of ITS technology (intelligent traffic system) yet traffic only gets worse. The city spent the last year installing fiber optic cable to link traffic signals among the major corridors; hopefully this will eventually help. Also, the city spends excessively on traffic signal aesthetics. The decorative black poles, cameras, and sensors can easily push the cost of signalization at one intersection to $1 million or more.

The traffic signal timing in Edmond is crazy. I sat at Kelly and Covell from 8:52 to 8:57 this morning waiting for the light to change for north/south traffic. East/west traffic just kept moving , so frustrating. Edmond has spent the last 20 years bragging about installation of ITS technology (intelligent traffic system) yet traffic only gets worse. The city spent the last year installing fiber optic cable to link traffic signals among the major corridors; hopefully this will eventually help. Also, the city spends excessively on traffic signal aesthetics. The decorative black poles, cameras, and sensors can easily push the cost of signalization at one intersection to $1 million or more.

i wonder if that was just a glitch .. I use that intersection every day ..

i wonder if that was just a glitch .. I use that intersection every day ..

I drive through Kelly and Covell multiple times daily and it does happen, not every time, but it is often enough that I b!tch about it under my breath often.

Also when turning WB on Covell from Broadway with an arrow, no matter what you just about always get a red light there at Thomas. I's crazy.

And these intersections with interstates -- If you're exiting Covell off of NB I35 and you sit at a red light up there, once it's green you should be able to proceed left and completely out of the intersection. However you always get stopped at the SB offramp to Covell while that traffic gets a green. This is the same at Waterloo and 35, and the same and many many of the interstate/local street intersections and it creates unnecessary congestion.

And these intersections with interstates -- If you're exiting Covell off of NB I35 and you sit at a red light up there, once it's green you should be able to proceed left and completely out of the intersection. However you always get stopped at the SB offramp to Covell while that traffic gets a green.

yep this always happens ..

I drive through Kelly and Covell multiple times daily and it does happen, not every time, but it is often enough that I b!tch about it under my breath often.

Also when turning WB on Covell from Broadway with an arrow, no matter what you just about always get a red light there at Thomas. I's crazy.

And these intersections with interstates -- If you're exiting Covell off of NB I35 and you sit at a red light up there, once it's green you should be able to proceed left and completely out of the intersection. However you always get stopped at the SB offramp to Covell while that traffic gets a green. This is the same at Waterloo and 35, and the same and many many of the interstate/local street intersections and it creates unnecessary congestion.

Whether I'm turning off of Broadway onto Covell or I'm traveling west down Covell, I always hit the red at Thomas. Doesn't matter what I do, how fast/slow I'm going etc. etc., I always hit the red there.

I've heard that Edmond is supposed to have a computer operated, logistical genius traffic control system but I've never seen any evidence of that over the past 15 or so years. Actual user experience says otherwise. If they do have an Intelligent Traffic System, then it's gotta be the dumbest Intelligent system. There's been several times where I'm at the front of the line at a stoplight, light turns green, I go, it turns yellow while I'm only half way through the intersection. What's Intelligent about that?

I don't get lights. My wife goes to work on NW Exp at 5AM. All the lights must default to red on the Exp because they're always red with no one on the cross street. Drives her crazy.
A new light was just installed between NW Exp and Wilshire on Council. It defaults to red on Council. I hit it at 6AM and have to sit waiting on nobody.

NW Hiway should always get the default green except maybe at Hefner Parkway. This just seems like common sense.

I don't get lights. My wife goes to work on NW Exp at 5AM. All the lights must default to red on the Exp because they're always red with no one on the cross street. Drives her crazy.
A new light was just installed between NW Exp and Wilshire on Council. It defaults to red on Council. I hit it at 6AM and have to sit waiting on nobody.

Had something similar happen on Broadway in Edmond several months back.

I was traveling Broadway at 5:45AM and was stopped by the light at 9th street. The one other car on the road was stopped going the opposite direction. I looked at the cross light and it was red too. So who had the green? It was the light for those coming out if the Autozone parking lot. Only problem is, Autozone isn't open at 5:45AM. So the parking lot was empty. Nobody was there. So this other car and I waited for our lights to turn green when there was no one else on the road.

Had something similar happen on Broadway in Edmond several months back.

I was traveling Broadway at 5:45AM and was stopped by the light at 9th street. The one other car on the road was stopped going the opposite direction. I looked at the cross light and it was red too. So who had the green? It was the light for those coming out if the Autozone parking lot. Only problem is, Autozone isn't open at 5:45AM. So the parking lot was empty. Nobody was there. So this other car and I waited for our lights to turn green when there was no one else on the road.

That light in front of Autozone has been like that for as long as I can remember. It was like that 15 years ago when I still lived with my parents up in Edmond. I don't know why they have it set like that, honestly, but the city of Edmond apparently likes it that way!

I think Edmond could function just fine with about half as many traffic lights.

^^^^^

!!!!

I think Edmond could function just fine with about half as many traffic lights.

Edmond would function a LOT better with half the curb cuts. I understand the frustration traffic lights cause but curb cuts cause a massive amount of slow downs that would be unnecessary if reconfigured.

Edmond would function a LOT better with half the curb cuts. I understand the frustration traffic lights cause but curb cuts cause a massive amount of slow downs that would be unnecessary if reconfigured.

What exactly are you meaning by 'curb cuts?' Are you talking about the curb being cut for parking lots or businesses? Or cuts made at intersections for crosswalks? I guess I'm not following.

What exactly are you meaning by 'curb cuts?' Are you talking about the curb being cut for parking lots or businesses? Or cuts made at intersections for crosswalks? I guess I'm not following.

Businesses. Crosswalks are mandatory. But the unending curb cuts for individual businesses back to back to back kills traffic.

What exactly are you meaning by 'curb cuts?' Are you talking about the curb being cut for parking lots or businesses? Or cuts made at intersections for crosswalks? I guess I'm not following.

Example, look at 2nd and Coltrane and just to the west. In 1/2 mile to the west, you have Vista Ln, Davision's Greenhouse, Pub W complex, Primrose School entrance, Wade Martin Rd, Meineke Car Care Center, Church In Edmond entrance, Single Family home driveway, SureStay Plus Best Western, Eddies and then Coltrane.

Vista Ln and Coltrane are the only ones that are "mandatory" and almost all the rest could be accessed differently if they were designed differently through the planning commission / City Council. Now I know there is very little chance of anything happening to any area that is already established but you find these types of situations all over Edmond and this was just one particular 1/2 mile section that honestly isn't all that built out yet.

Just take a look at the one mentioned above and from Vista to Bryant. Both sides of the road are cluttered with curb cuts that if you cut half of them out would not impact a single business and would provide additional space.

Example, look at 2nd and Coltrane and just to the west. In 1/2 mile to the west, you have Vista Ln, Davision's Greenhouse, Pub W complex, Primrose School entrance, Wade Martin Rd, Meineke Car Care Center, Church In Edmond entrance, Single Family home driveway, SureStay Plus Best Western, Eddies and then Coltrane.

Vista Ln and Coltrane are the only ones that are "mandatory" and almost all the rest could be accessed differently if they were designed differently through the planning commission / City Council. Now I know there is very little chance of anything happening to any area that is already established but you find these types of situations all over Edmond and this was just one particular 1/2 mile section that honestly isn't all that built out yet.

Just take a look at the one mentioned above and from Vista to Bryant. Both sides of the road are cluttered with curb cuts that if you cut half of them out would not impact a single business and would provide additional space.

how could they be accessed "differently"

how could they be accessed "differently"

The Eddies could be accessed better from Coltrane than 2nd. Same for the Best Western if they put in an access road. Both Daily Living Center and Meineke could be accessed from Wade Martin.

The point is, all of the curb cuts cause disruption to the flow of traffic and if planned better initially, could prevent a lot of issues. It shouldn't take 30-40 minutes to drive from West Edmond to East or East to West but it does unless you take the turnpike which is at the southern point of town.

The Eddies could be accessed better from Coltrane than 2nd. Same for the Best Western if they put in an access road. Both Daily Living Center and Meineke could be accessed from Wade Martin.

The point is, all of the curb cuts cause disruption to the flow of traffic and if planned better initially, could prevent a lot of issues. It shouldn't take 30-40 minutes to drive from West Edmond to East or East to West but it does unless you take the turnpike which is at the southern point of town.

2nd street is a city street not an expressway .. it is designed appropriately ..

Not efficiently.

2nd street is a city street not an expressway .. it is designed appropriately ..

If you drive suburban main arteries in many cities, there is a notable limit in how frequently there are curb cuts and distances from a main intersection to the first curb cut. Older streets are like May Ave, SW 29th or 2nd but newer main arteries limit cuts and setbacks.

If you drive suburban main arteries in many cities, there is a notable limit in how frequently there are curb cuts and distances from a main intersection to the first curb cut. Older streets are like May Ave, SW 29th or 2nd but newer main arteries limit cuts and setbacks.

Can you give an example in another city of a suburban main artery done correctly?

I see that there is probably some merit to this thought, however, I still feel like having way too many stoplights carries more of the burden of it taking 30 minutes to get from east Edmond to west Edmond. Even if the curb cuts were reduced, we're still sitting and waiting at all of these lights. Waiting for them to turn green only to be stopped again in a few hundred yards.

If you drive suburban main arteries in many cities, there is a notable limit in how frequently there are curb cuts and distances from a main intersection to the first curb cut. Older streets are like May Ave, SW 29th or 2nd but newer main arteries limit cuts and setbacks.

Can you give an example in another city of a suburban main artery done correctly? Maybe give a crossroad in a city that I can look at on streetview. Or two.

I see that there is probably some merit to this thought, however, I still feel like having way too many stoplights carries more of the burden of it taking 30 minutes to get from east Edmond to west Edmond. Even if the curb cuts were reduced, we're still sitting and waiting at all of these lights. Waiting for them to turn green only to be stopped again in a few hundred yards.

I think the city should have an employee and all they do is drive the roads and make note of terrible light timing and things that don't make sense. Traffic is a big part of quality of life and it seems like a lot of aggravation could be avoided with relative ease.

As for the biggest project that needs done in OKC I think it is the i40 i44 interchange (i40 east and west) where the lane goes down to 2 lanes. It needs to be expanded. I don't know how you do it and it will be a traffic nightmare but it needs to be done soon

I think the city should have an employee and all they do is drive the roads and make note of terrible light timing and things that don't make sense. Traffic is a big part of quality of life and it seems like a lot of aggravation could be avoided with relative ease.

As for the biggest project that needs done in OKC I think it is the i40 i44 interchange (i40 east and west) where the lane goes down to 2 lanes. It needs to be expanded. I don't know how you do it and it will be a traffic nightmare but it needs to be done soon

I40 over 44 and over portland starts this summer ..

I think the city should have an employee and all they do is drive the roads and make note of terrible light timing and things that don't make sense. Traffic is a big part of quality of life and it seems like a lot of aggravation could be avoided with relative ease.

As for the biggest project that needs done in OKC I think it is the i40 i44 interchange (i40 east and west) where the lane goes down to 2 lanes. It needs to be expanded. I don't know how you do it and it will be a traffic nightmare but it needs to be done soon
The city has lots of employees that have to get to work and back home. Or work all day driving on city streets to do their jobs. I would think that if the city wanted drivers opinions they have a great pool to draw comments from on their payroll.

The city has lots of employees that have to get to work and back home. Or work all day driving on city streets to do their jobs. I would think that if the city wanted drivers opinions they have a great pool to draw comments from on their payroll.

They (Edmond *and* OKC) should have some kind of program for certain departments (streets, utilities, traffic, etc.) to have a separate phone/tablet and to note bad traffic light timing, potholes, street lights that are out, etc. Us residents shouldn't have to notify the city of all their problems all over the city all the time.

They (Edmond *and* OKC) should have some kind of program for certain departments (streets, utilities, traffic, etc.) to have a separate phone/tablet and to note bad traffic light timing, potholes, street lights that are out, etc. Us residents shouldn't have to notify the city of all their problems all over the city all the time.I agree completely but I'm holding my breath.

I wonder if Edmond or OKC are partners with Waze. I have reported potholes on Waze and they have been filled fairly quickly.

https://www.waze.com/wazeforcities/

I have a friend who has been an Edmond rabble-rouser the past couple years, and I recall him telling me a few months ago that Edmond has the cameras, and other technology to monitor traffic 24/7. He mentioned that Edmond does not want to use the "flow" signal control method (allowing signals to be coordinated in such a manner that people could drive several miles at the speed limit), rather it uses the "herd" method (which makes drivers catch red light after red light). Edmond is focused on a fear of speeding in the city limits.

Now, I have no idea if any of this is true. Just parroting what I was told.

I have a friend who has been an Edmond rabble-rouser the past couple years, and I recall him telling me a few months ago that Edmond has the cameras, and other technology to monitor traffic 24/7. He mentioned that Edmond does not want to use the "flow" signal control method (allowing signals to be coordinated in such a manner that people could drive several miles at the speed limit), rather it uses the "herd" method (which makes drivers catch red light after red light). Edmond is focused on a fear of speeding in the city limits.

Now, I have no idea if any of this is true. Just parroting what I was told.

if true, that is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.
Probably more accidents from road rage than going a few mph over the speed limit.
If that was really the case, just lower the posted speed limit

I have a friend who has been an Edmond rabble-rouser the past couple years, and I recall him telling me a few months ago that Edmond has the cameras, and other technology to monitor traffic 24/7. He mentioned that Edmond does not want to use the "flow" signal control method (allowing signals to be coordinated in such a manner that people could drive several miles at the speed limit), rather it uses the "herd" method (which makes drivers catch red light after red light). Edmond is focused on a fear of speeding in the city limits.

Now, I have no idea if any of this is true. Just parroting what I was told.

I think this has to be true. Just driving in Edmond for any length of time tells you that's what they're doing.

So instead of incentivizing speed limit obedience they're actually making people speed and run red lights because of how they choose to do it. People speed off when their light turns green because they wanna catch that green they see 200 yards down the road but they don't catch it and run it anyway. Edmond is courting danger more than anything with their method.

I think Edmond could function just fine with about half as many traffic lights.

Agree... this won't be popular but ROUNDABOUTS would solve this. Traffic just flows better. We've used them across the US and in Europe. People either learn to use them, or avoid them.

Agree... this won't be popular but ROUNDABOUTS would solve this. Traffic just flows better. We've used them across the US and in Europe. People either learn to use them, or avoid them.

Yeah, I don't know where roundabouts got this reputation for only being able to be navigated by geniuses and Europeans. Or genius Europeans.

There's a roundabout in Seminole, OK. If the rubes in Seminole can figure it out, then I think the rubes in Edmond might be able to figure it out too. You don't have to be a graduate of Oxford to be able to use a roundabout.

Yeah, I don't know where roundabouts got this reputation for only being able to be navigated by geniuses and Europeans. Or genius Europeans.

There's a roundabout in Seminole, OK. If the rubes in Seminole can figure it out, then I think the rubes in Edmond might be able to figure it out too. You don't have to be a graduate of Oxford to be able to use a roundabout.

Just because they have them doesn't mean they know how to use them. I am surprised by the number of people that come to a full stop at walker and 10th when there is no traffic in circle. However, Hays Kansas has 4 of them in a row and most people seem to know how to use them.

Just because they have them doesn't mean they know how to use them. I am surprised by the number of people that come to a full stop at walker and 10th when there is no traffic in circle. However, Hays Kansas has 4 of them in a row and most people seem to know how to use them.

seems like 10th and shartel is even worse ..

and both of those have been install for a long long time ..

Our neighborhood has been discussing roundabouts since someone found that the city would allow them if the residents paid for them.
First, it would cost a fortune.
Second, though I wouldn't do it, it would give me a beautiful opportunity to put my Miata through her paces. And I'm sure there's people out there in pickups who would go for it.
My neighborhood also wants signs put up. Sorry but signage and roundabouts are something to be ignored or even challenged by people who want to be fast drivers.

Our neighborhood has been discussing roundabouts since someone found that the city would allow them if the residents paid for them.
First, it would cost a fortune.
Second, though I wouldn't do it, it would give me a beautiful opportunity to put my Miata through her paces. And I'm sure there's people out there in pickups who would go for it.
My neighborhood also wants signs put up. Sorry but signage and roundabouts are something to be ignored or even challenged by people who want to be fast drivers.

Wat?

i wonder if that was just a glitch .. I use that intersection every day ..

Same. Kelly and Covell is actually how every major intersection in Edmond should look. 2nd and Bryant is also a good example of how the larger intersection helped traffic flow in that area.
With both of these intersections, traffic flows as best as possible with multiple turn lanes in each direction and wide lanes.

The problem is that Covell is such a cluster from I-35 to the western edges of Edmond City limits. It goes from 2 lane county roads and 4 way stops to an actual planned intersection at Kelly/Covell. Any progress made at Kelly/Covell or Broadway/Covell is quickly defeated at places like Covell/Western or Covell/Bryant or Coltrane.

2nd Street would benefit with a continuous center turn lane from the railroad tracks all the way past Santa Fe. Along 2nd, the sheer number of businesses and neighborhoods with individual curb cuts and no turn inlets greatly hurts the flow. The mis-timing of lights at Bryant to either Vista Lane or the Target/Walmart Market shopping centers and the mis-timed lights by UCO on 2nd.

The at-grade railroad crossings on Danforth, 15th, and 33rd also impede traffic flow with the number of trains that "get up to speed" while going through Edmond.

The other failure of the ITS technology is that it has trouble prioritizing which directions to give priority to. There is what appears to be an equal demand of cars heading north/south from Waterloo into OKC via Kelly, Santa Fe, Broadway, and those heading East/West from 2nd, Danforth, 15th, and 33rd to I-35 or Hefner Parkway . Without having a controlled access roadway/parkway in city limits, cars are literally forced to come to a stop at any direction into Edmond.

Edmond's road system should look more like Lawton, as both towns serve about 100,000 residents, and traffic flows much better within Lawton's grid system. However, Edmond has been suffocated by previous city planning. There isn't really room to expand roadways without having to buy out businesses and homes that were literally placed right next to the road.

The at-grade railroad crossings on Danforth, 15th, and 33rd also impede traffic flow with the number of trains that "get up to speed" while going through Edmond.


There should be an underpass at 33rd. That would give one every other mile (Covell, 2nd, 33rd). Then if OKC would pony up for one at 122nd or Hefner, then everything wouldn't get balled up when one of the sidings gets filled blocking one or more arterial.

Same. Kelly and Covell is actually how every major intersection in Edmond should look. 2nd and Bryant is also a good example of how the larger intersection helped traffic flow in that area.
With both of these intersections, traffic flows as best as possible with multiple turn lanes in each direction and wide lanes.

The problem is that Covell is such a cluster from I-35 to the western edges of Edmond City limits. It goes from 2 lane county roads and 4 way stops to an actual planned intersection at Kelly/Covell. Any progress made at Kelly/Covell or Broadway/Covell is quickly defeated at places like Covell/Western or Covell/Bryant or Coltrane.

2nd Street would benefit with a continuous center turn lane from the railroad tracks all the way past Santa Fe. Along 2nd, the sheer number of businesses and neighborhoods with individual curb cuts and no turn inlets greatly hurts the flow. The mis-timing of lights at Bryant to either Vista Lane or the Target/Walmart Market shopping centers and the mis-timed lights by UCO on 2nd.

The at-grade railroad crossings on Danforth, 15th, and 33rd also impede traffic flow with the number of trains that "get up to speed" while going through Edmond.

The other failure of the ITS technology is that it has trouble prioritizing which directions to give priority to. There is what appears to be an equal demand of cars heading north/south from Waterloo into OKC via Kelly, Santa Fe, Broadway, and those heading East/West from 2nd, Danforth, 15th, and 33rd to I-35 or Hefner Parkway . Without having a controlled access roadway/parkway in city limits, cars are literally forced to come to a stop at any direction into Edmond.

Edmond's road system should look more like Lawton, as both towns serve about 100,000 residents, and traffic flows much better within Lawton's grid system. However, Edmond has been suffocated by previous city planning. There isn't really room to expand roadways without having to buy out businesses and homes that were literally placed right next to the road.

1000%

He mentioned that Edmond does not want to use the "flow" signal control method (allowing signals to be coordinated in such a manner that people could drive several miles at the speed limit), rather it uses the "herd" method (which makes drivers catch red light after red light).

I'm still curious about this. Does Edmond feel that there's some advantage to the herd method or is that just the way they want to do it come hell or high water?

In my experience, it causes people to speed in order to make that next light. I'm convinced that Edmond only wants to infuriate drivers. Edmond has several lights that are no turn on red and it's not a safety issue. It's because if you can't turn on red then you will eventually change the other lights to red making the rest of the traffic have to stop. Edmond wants you stuck at a stop light and wasting as much time sitting at a red light as possible.

Same. Kelly and Covell is actually how every major intersection in Edmond should look. 2nd and Bryant is also a good example of how the larger intersection helped traffic flow in that area.
With both of these intersections, traffic flows as best as possible with multiple turn lanes in each direction and wide lanes.

The problem is that Covell is such a cluster from I-35 to the western edges of Edmond City limits. It goes from 2 lane county roads and 4 way stops to an actual planned intersection at Kelly/Covell. Any progress made at Kelly/Covell or Broadway/Covell is quickly defeated at places like Covell/Western or Covell/Bryant or Coltrane.
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Kelly and Covell is a great intersection I agree with that ..

I don't agree the Covell is "such a cluster" ..

it is great from I35 until almost Coltrane .. currenlty and is great from just before Blvd to pretty much Sante Fe ..

the 2 miles from just before Coltrane to Blvd is going to get the same upgrade that the rest of that part of Covell has ... with the mile from just east of coltrane to just east of bryant getting ready to start and the next mile to follow ..


sure west of sante fe is a long term issue .. but that is not all of covell from 35 west ..

... Edmond wants you stuck at a stop light and wasting as much time sitting at a red light as possible.

Why does Edmond want that? No discernible purpose to that philosophy at all. Probably just incompetence or they just don't care, not malicious, but who knows.

Why does Edmond want that? No discernible purpose to that philosophy at all. Probably just incompetence or they just don't care, not malicious, but who knows.

It purposely makes you slow down through the city?

I think it isn't as much as by design, but rather too many cars on main thoroughfare streets. Outside of the widening of Covell and some intersection improvements at 33rd and Broadway, Edmond's core streets have essentially stayed the same in 25 years, but gained 35-40k residents within city limits, plus the number of people in far NWOKC that live in a Edmond zip code and drive east into Edmond for shopping and retail.

The other issue that plagues Edmond is almost all roads are boxed in by the main roads. In other words, if you want to go from one side of town to the other, you are forced to use the main roads. Very few streets connect. Most subdivisions have one or two entrances that pour out onto the main road. Why is_______street so busy? The city, by design, makes every person drive on that street.

The explosion of growth in far North Edmond and southern Logan county hasn't helped traffic matters either as more people have to go south/north daily to get to Broadway Extension. Ideally, Broadway should have continued as controlled access all the way to Waterloo, instead it essentially dead ends next to a cemetery and railroad tracks at Danforth and you have to turn right to get merge into a decent strip of Blvd/Broadway to Covell.

It purposely makes you slow down through the city?...

I can pretty much guarantee you that even the worst traffic planner/engineer hired for that size city anywhere in the USA would *not* have that as their priority, they would not purposely FUBAR the entire traffic system through a city just to slow traffic down, it doesn't work that way. It is a horribly planned city with so many cul-de-sacs and separated additions, compared to a gridded city like OKC, but they most likely didn't twirl their mustaches and say "Boris, I tink we haf to slow down all ze traffic in ze city, so why don't ve screw up all ze light thingies".