Yeah, you're right, but it isn't acting like it, and the industry isn't acting like it. Eventually these cuts will have an impact.

Maybe less in decreasing passengers, but more so in limiting the growth of the airport. Fewer routes, fewer options, less growth potential.

......have you seen what's going on in the airline industry? Cause if you had it would make total sense.

American blew their entire 2024 earnings on a dumb idea to force business travel off 3rd party. Chief Commercial Officer departed, and like I said it nuked their entire year. They've added very few domestic routes since.
Southwest had an activist hedge fund wanting them to drive profits higher, and as a result they've been cutting more routes than adding.

Those are the 2 largest carriers in OKC.

So yeah it makes sense OKC planes would be full, but no new routes were added.

It makes sense, it’s just a different metric. Is there growth among existing carriers and total passenger count? Yes. Are there new routes or airlines entering the market? No.

It's almost like 2 things can be true at once.

Plus, I believe Southwest is ending the year with less planes than they started the year with, which will impact operations. I don't think things are as bad for OKC air travel as this thread would have you to believe. The entire industry is a bit unsteady. Heck, Austin has lost a decent number of flights this year.

It happens. it is not some judgement on the market as it is usually as someone else said upthread, the airline will make money on flights from OKC but they may make more money on the same flight at another airport. If it makes sense for an airline to have a flight from here, they will do it. The airlines aren't concerned about our feelings of what flights we think we should have, the "perception" that the airport is in decline etc. It's just business sometimes, nothing personal

I happen to like our airport and think it is doing fine. Numbers are up and the FIS facility will be done early next year and fingers crossed they will get those international flights.

But that growth is more limited, unless it involves upgauges.

Ideally you get a mix of both.

I agree, I’m just saying what gopokes said makes sense, just by a different measurement.

It's almost like 2 things can be true at once.

You’ll never hear me argue otherwise. In that same vein though, you disputed bison34’s claim by implying the metric used to highlight a lack of desired growth doesn’t apply.

Plus, I believe Southwest is ending the year with less planes than they started the year with, which will impact operations. I don't think things are as bad for OKC air travel as this thread would have you to believe. The entire industry is a bit unsteady. Heck, Austin has lost a decent number of flights this year.

It happens. it is not some judgement on the market as it is usually as someone else said upthread, the airline will make money on flights from OKC but they may make more money on the same flight at another airport. If it makes sense for an airline to have a flight from here, they will do it. The airlines aren't concerned about our feelings of what flights we think we should have, the "perception" that the airport is in decline etc. It's just business sometimes, nothing personal

I happen to like our airport and think it is doing fine. Numbers are up and the FIS facility will be done early next year and fingers crossed they will get those international flights.

This. 100.

Very extensive detail on the upcoming changes with SW. This is from their Investor Day presentation earlier this week in Dallas.

https://www.southwestairlinesinvestorrelations.com/~/media/Files/S/Southwest-IR/documents/20240926-luv-investor-day.pdf

I find it interesting that OKC is not included in their Top 50 cities charts, yet OKC is a Top 50 metro area. ... Then they include several metros that are not in the Top 50 (Omaha, ABQ, New Orleans, Buffalo, Tallahassee, etc). ..

Not sure the meaning of the charts. Not only is OKC a Top 50 US City and Metro, but WN is the #1 airline. So why is OKC not on the charts?

I find it interesting that OKC is not included in their Top 50 cities charts, yet OKC is a Top 50 metro area. ... Then they include several metros that are not in the Top 50 (Omaha, ABQ, New Orleans, Buffalo, Tallahassee, etc). ..

Not sure the meaning of the charts. Not only is OKC a Top 50 US City and Metro, but WN is the #1 airline. So why is OKC not on the charts?

Their source data for that slide does not rank OKC as a top 50 metro area because it is based on enplanements and not population.

https://www.bts.gov/content/passengers-boarded-top-50-us-airports

Their source data for that slide does not rank OKC as a top 50 metro area because it is based on enplanements and not population.

https://www.bts.gov/content/passengers-boarded-top-50-us-airports

SWA uses https://www.cirium.com for market analysis, network planning data and analytics…that might be the problem. OMA is not top 50 according to DOT, but seems to be, according to Cirium. For what it’s worth, no part of Kentucky is within the “sun belt,” yet it’s included in the data from another data vendor, BMI Fitch Solutions. Parts of Oklahoma are within the traditional “sun belt” latitudes, but is not included. We’re splitting hairs here, but seeing SWA’s data and analytics vendors leave OKC (and TUL) out is a little odd. Makes you wonder if SWA and others are working off of “faulty” or incomplete market data and don’t even know it. Obviously, they know what their revenues are in each market, but when it comes to planning, are they seeing a full and proper picture?

You’ll never hear me argue otherwise. In that same vein though, you disputed bison34’s claim by implying the metric used to highlight a lack of desired growth doesn’t apply.

PAX is the leading indicator. Keeps growing flights will get added. The reduction or no growth in flights this year is short term noise and more related to OKC's biggest two carriers, who are 65% of all passengers in OKC, having awful years at the corporate level.

Bison is just being pissy to be pissy.

I just got back from a quick weekend trip to DC on Delta. Friday was OKC > ATL > DCA, Sunday was DCA > LGA > OKC. OKC > ATL and DCA > LGA were completely full. For the first time in ages, I was on flights that were not full, ATL > DCA and LGA>OKC.

Of the 8 delta airlines flights I have taken in the last two months, only one flight (ATL > DCA) actually had WIFI available and a media console. The Alaskan Airlines flights I took last month were amazing though - the planes were in good order, the WIFI and media worked - we got snacks and whole-can drinks multiple times.

I really wish they would upgrade some of their planes. The little Embraers seem to be falling apart. The interior panel on one flight was separating from the adjacent panel by like 2" so I could see behind the panel and the first window pane to the insulation and aluminum.

I just got back from a quick weekend trip to DC on Delta. Friday was OKC > ATL > DCA, Sunday was DCA > LGA > OKC. OKC > ATL and DCA > LGA were completely full. For the first time in ages, I was on flights that were not full, ATL > DCA and LGA>OKC.

Of the 8 delta airlines flights I have taken in the last two months, only one flight (ATL > DCA) actually had WIFI available and a media console. The Alaskan Airlines flights I took last month were amazing though - the planes were in good order, the WIFI and media worked - we got snacks and whole-can drinks multiple times.

I really wish they would upgrade some of their planes. The little Embraers seem to be falling apart. The interior panel on one flight was separating from the adjacent panel by like 2" so I could see behind the panel and the first window pane to the insulation and aluminum.

I booked the new TUL-LGA a few weeks ago for the end of December. I get a notification yesterday that instead of a nonstop they are routing me through ATL. I looked and inexplicably they stopped the nonstop for the end of December and beginning of January, restarting 1/6. Maybe they needed the planes somewhere else. Rebooking on the AA nonstop..

Just got off the ATL-OKC flight that comes in around 1159 pm. Was shocked to see a bunch of people waiting to board the flight and the sign said it was going to Houston.

Wait....we have an outgoing passenger flight at midnight? Wait....we have a DL flight to Houston? When did this happen?

Talked to a crew member waiting and she said they were enroute to Houston and got diverted to OKC for mechanical. They were taking our incoming flight to Houston. Sure hope that isn't my wife's outgoing plane to SLC in the morning.

Interesting. My flight to Atlanta has been changed from a B717 to a B757 which I have never seen in OKC.
Could it be that ? I’m on the 215pm today

Interesting. My flight to Atlanta has been changed from a B717 to a B757 which I have never seen in OKC.
Could it be that ? I’m on the 215pm today

That particular aircraft was in Bogota, Columbia yesterday before ATL, then on to OKC. It's coming in from ATL today and turning right back around to ATL before heading to Miami. Very interesting to see a 757 on a regular turn in OKC...

Thank you for telling this not the one which broke down on the way to Houston !

I fly regularly and I have never seen a 757 scheduled in OKC. It has to be the biggest passenger with some A321 in higher density configuration like at Frontier.

I think Delta is retiring their B717 fleet. Maybe the 757 will be an OKC regular; certainly the largest passenger aircraft I've ever seen here.

Not sure of what got switched but my wife's flight the next morning was 830 am-ish and the 530am flight had not departed yet.

https://www-griceconnect-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.griceconnect.com/amp/local-news/allegiant-announces-eight-new-routes-with-one-way-fares-as-low-as-39-9562123?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQGsAEggAID#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=17284969296762&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.griceconnect.com%2Floca l-news%2Fallegiant-announces-eight-new-routes-with-one-way-fares-as-low-as-39-9562123. Were they doing that poorly that they left OKC. They stayed in Wichita they stayed in Tulsa

https://flyokc.com/sites/default/files/September%202024%20Enplanement.pdf

Sept Numbers

https://www-griceconnect-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.griceconnect.com/amp/local-news/allegiant-announces-eight-new-routes-with-one-way-fares-as-low-as-39-9562123?amp_gsa=1&_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQGsAEggAID#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=17284969296762&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.griceconnect.com%2Flocal-news%2Fallegiant-announces-eight-new-routes-with-one-way-fares-as-low-as-39-9562123. Were they doing that poorly that they left OKC. They stayed in Wichita they stayed in Tulsa

Allegiant has a fairly robust route network out of nearby XNA. Likely due to not having to compete with Southwest and higher disposable income in NWA which drives leisure travel.

Those numbers kinda suck.

AA and United killed it. Not sure what the rest were doing.

United: Regional Fleet to Become Smaller Part of Airline


https://airlinegeeks.com/2024/10/18/united-regional-fleet-to-become-smaller-part-of-airline/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR2YTkJredftBtvurs4cw-2-AZm-d7jrt9qdIgE9NMYhnea0TdX2cLthWas_aem_cuw8yIUAB2Koc3 CJLYSfvg

"Moving forward, he said, United’s regional strategy will involve larger aircraft and fewer frequencies with subsequently lower unit costs."

Top 50 Unserved Markets in the US. OKC makes the list 3 times... (OKC-San Fran, OKC-BOS, OKC-SD). Can't believe we still haven't gotten OKC-SFO back yet.

https://ishrionaviation.com/news/top-50-unserved-markets-in-the-contiguous-united-states

Top 50 Unserved Markets in the US. OKC makes the list 3 times... (OKC-San Fran, OKC-BOS, OKC-SD). Can't believe we still haven't gotten OKC-SFO back yet.

https://ishrionaviation.com/news/top-50-unserved-markets-in-the-contiguous-united-states

Any publicity is good publicity, right?

Sucks that we are on there 3 times.

Sunday morning I went through a canine screening section before getting to the TSA scanner.

How long have there been canine screenings at Will Roger's Airport?

very surprising there's no Los Angeles connection to Milwaukee. MKE must be the most underserved large city (with OKC #2) since they also missing SFO. At least OKC has Los Angeles and has for a very long time.

Other than MKE-LAX, MKE-SFO and OKC-SFO, none of the others are a surprise given the market size (well, OKC-BOS and OKC-SAN are large). Hopefully OKC can regain SFO (come on United) and strengthen its existing route offering.

very surprising there's no Los Angeles connection to Milwaukee. MKE must be the most underserved large city (with OKC #2) since they also missing SFO. At least OKC has Los Angeles and has for a very long time.

Other than MKE-LAX, MKE-SFO and OKC-SFO, none of the others are a surprise given the market size (well, OKC-BOS and OKC-SAN are large). Hopefully OKC can regain SFO (come on United) and strengthen its existing route offering.

Milwaukee's issue is the airport is only 70 miles from O'Hare.

Not surprised by that list. The two listed for Tulsa (SFO and SEA) are the two highest priority routes the airport is currently working on and will likely use incentives. From the Tulsa World:


The Oklahoma Aerospace and Aeronautics Commission on Wednesday made the award from the Progressing Rural Economic Prosperity Fund. The $2 million, plus $500,000 from the Tulsa Community Foundation, will be used to guarantee a minimum level of revenue for each nonstop flight.

Tulsa International Airport officials hope the funding will help secure a contract with an airline to create a nonstop route to San Francisco, Seattle, San Diego, Boston or Cancun.

https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/business/tulsa-airport-nonstop-incentive/article_8114187a-dcc4-11ee-86a0-6fdd4c99c28d.html

Not surprised by that list. The two listed for Tulsa (SFO and SEA) are the two highest priority routes the airport is currently working on and will likely use incentives. From the Tulsa World:



https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/business/tulsa-airport-nonstop-incentive/article_8114187a-dcc4-11ee-86a0-6fdd4c99c28d.html

I wonder if OKC is getting any of these funds for incentives.

I wonder if OKC is getting any of these funds for incentives.

$2M grant to OKC for new commercial service for one or more new routes including San Francisco, San Diego, Washington Dulles, Boston, or a destination in Mexico (https://oklahoma.gov/aerospace/outreach-advocacy/newsroom/oklahoma-aerospace-and-aeronautics-commission-approves-funding-to-support-new-non-stop-flights-and-improve-aviation-classrooms-at-schools-across-the-state.html)

$2M grant to OKC for new commercial service for one or more new routes including San Francisco, San Diego, Washington Dulles, Boston, or a destination in Mexico (https://oklahoma.gov/aerospace/outreach-advocacy/newsroom/oklahoma-aerospace-and-aeronautics-commission-approves-funding-to-support-new-non-stop-flights-and-improve-aviation-classrooms-at-schools-across-the-state.html)

Good deal!

Anyone in the industry have an inkling if United is done adding routes for summer 2025, or if we could still get SFO added by then? Seem to me it's just a matter of time. The rates people pay likely support it, and we know the route was successful before from a load perspective. If United doesn't feel they have a RJ available it might have to wait until they get more mainline delivered to shuffle around aircraft.

Southwest is adding a nonstop from Colorado Springs to Cancun this spring. Hopefully this is the beginning of Southwest doing more P2P flying from secondary markets like OKC and TUL to CUN, PVR and SJD.

Ouch. The disrespect is real.

Ouch. The disrespect is real.

No, the numbers in COS are real. Now, I can't tell if you're joking with these posts or you just don't get it.

COS got the flights to CUN probably because they have the numbers to make it go and likely got incentives from the local or state gov'ts to make it happen as well. The Front Range has over 5 million in population, so if their DEN-CUN numbers have plenty of COS connecting pax already, then they know it will work out of COS nonstop and those folks now don't have to make that drive up I-25 or that absurdly short flight to connect in DEN. There is big Mexico leisure traffic from the Front Range--people love to go down and warm up during those Colorado winters.

It's not disrespect for OKC, man, c'mon. Do you really think that's how a major airline route planning team does their work--based on respect and disrespect for markets?

It's also once a week on a Saturday. Something I would expect to be similar to what OKC gets in the future.

It's also once a week on a Saturday. Something I would expect to be similar to what OKC gets in the future.

Agree that is likely where an international leisure flight to Mexico starts. The fact that Southwest is starting this flight gives hope that they will look a similar secondary markets for international routes in the next few years.

Ouch. The disrespect is real.

DIA is 32 miles from my house in southern Denver to DIA. COS is about double that but is far easier to get in and out so if you're flying, COS is direct competition. Count the fast growing suburbs of Centennial, Parker and Castle Rock you have a draw area of about equal population to OKC. North COS and Douglas County are very prosperous so having flights from there to Mexico isn't surprising.

https://www.flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL344 looks like United Airlines SFO-OKC routing is back.

An Airbus A319 nonetheless!

Looks like it was headed to DFW, and had to divert?

Ishrion is reporting that Frontier will be adding OKC-MCO this spring. Good to see Frontier expanding beyond Denver. Not sure about frequency. This will compete with Southwest’s 1x/daily nonstop to MCO.

Nice! Wonder why October numbers are so late

2X weekly to MCO starting 3/7

https://thepointsguy.com/news/frontier-airlines-16-route-expansion/

Ishrion is reporting that Frontier will be adding OKC-MCO this spring. Good to see Frontier expanding beyond Denver. Not sure about frequency. This will compete with Southwest’s 1x/daily nonstop to MCO.

They also fly to Vegas from here but good news! They fly to Cancun, Dominican Republic and Puerto Rico through Orlando which should be available as options eventually.

Looks like Delta will have DTW back only for the Michigan game next year in September

Does anyone know why UA does not fly into OKC, but does fly into TUL? We have United Express, but not UA. Seems strange when we are the bigger market. TUL has UA service to DEN and IAH, but ORD service via United Express only as well.

Does anyone know why UA does not fly into OKC, but does fly into TUL? We have United Express, but not UA. Seems strange when we are the bigger market. TUL has UA service to DEN and IAH, but ORD service via United Express only as well.

UA does this all the time. They currently fly A319's from ORD to TUL and ICT, but RJ's to a larger market like OKC. Odd.

Vs Tulsa maybe it has to do with frequencies and the ability to spread out flights vs taking up a main line? One full A319 is 126 passengers. Two E175s are 156.

On United, OKC currently runs 5 vs 4 daily to Denver. 8 vs 5 to IAH. 4 vs 3 to ORD

Personally I don't mind the bigger regional jets. The E170/175 is one of my overall favorite plane to fly in. I like more frequencies on smaller planes vs less on bigger ones, but I might be in the minority.

Vs Tulsa maybe it has to do with frequencies and the ability to spread out flights vs taking up a main line? One full A319 is 126 passengers. Two E175s are 156.

On United, OKC currently runs 5 vs 4 daily to Denver. 8 vs 5 to IAH. 4 vs 3 to ORD

Personally I don't mind the bigger regional jets. The E170/175 is one of my overall favorite plane to fly in. I like more frequencies on smaller planes vs less on bigger ones, but I might be in the minority.

yeah this doesn’t really bother me either. I actually like the smaller regional jets too. Takes less time to load and unload and for the ones with a single seat on the left/port side of the plane…those are some of my favorites seating options across the board lol. I’m not a tall person so this probably factors in to my preferences lol.

yeah this doesn’t really bother me either. I actually like the smaller regional jets too. Takes less time to load and unload and for the ones with a single seat on the left/port side of the plane…those are some of my favorites seating options across the board lol. I’m not a tall person so this probably factors in to my preferences lol.

How's the quality of the product though (staff, food/drink, etc.), on UA vs. someone like Sky West operating the flight for UA? Does a frequent business traveler prefer to be on one of those mainline jets with UA staff and product or does schedule weigh more heavily in one's opinion of a given station's service?

It's exactly the same. It's still United

It's exactly the same. It's still United

The flight may be branded with a United brand, but it's still one of five regional airlines that provide the same white-label service to the other legacy airlines.

Looks like the OU football team took a 787 to Baton Rouge. Always cool to see that equipment at KOKC

Looks like the OU football team took a 787 to Baton Rouge. Always cool to see that equipment at KOKC

I saw that, I think it was the first 787 visit in Baton Rouge. I remember when OU took a United 747 from OKC to LAX for the Rose Bowl in 2002.

https://flyokc.com/sites/default/files/October%202024%20Enplanement.pdf

Good month. AA continuing to grow again. Huge Alaska growth. Delta down a little. Southwest flat. United up a nice little.

Good grief, what is behind that Alaska growth? Were there a lot of cancellations last October or something? They haven't added new routes or capacity or anything in that timespan iirc.

Good grief, what is behind that Alaska growth? Were there a lot of cancellations last October or something? They haven't added new routes or capacity or anything in that timespan iirc.

My wife’s cousin, her husband, and their kids relocated from Bremerton to Shawnee with more cousins and their families set to move here in a couple of months, so I’m sure it’s mostly just them and their parents going back and forth.