^

And now every time there is an interview they make sure to include this type of wording:


Mansion Entertainment Group adds that they will continue to engage with local and state leaders to make sure funding is available.

This was my favorite part:


The park is reminiscent of what it means to live in the heart of America.

Who here is surprised that this isn't actually happening? Anyone? Nope.

I could have sworn I also heard something about a park like the new Mattel park in AZ being built somewhere in Missouri. Hotwheels or Matchbox or something??? Anyway, if that happens with that kind of corporate backing and in an actual city instead in the middle of godforsaken nowhere, then it's another nail in this joke's coffin.

The Disney and Florida feud (which probably started all this) is at least temporarily over. Also, what Universal Studios is building is going to light years better.

I think the ship has set sail and this development has very little chance of happening.

Supposedly they are working through the necessary infrastructure that will be needed to actually support the site. There will be significant water, sewer, storm, and roadway development that will need to be paid for and started before they can commit to actually doing anything. Which goes back to all the questions about the timeline... Why promise something for 2026 if you can't even get the infrastructure designed and approved by then, not to mention actually finishing construction? They made all these crazy timelines before they even had ZONING APPROVAL and incorporation into Vinita.

Mullin published something the other day saying that he and other leaders were still committed to getting them funding (for the outside infrastructure improvements), so there are still wheels turning. It's obviously a huge gamble for Vinita and all the local utilities to commit to expanding their systems for something that likely won't get built to the scale that is advertised. It probably won't last long either...

For reference, it took Tulsa YEARS of planning and approvals for projects like Gathering Place and the new river improvements before they ever broke ground, then YEARS of construction. They have seriously underestimated the time it takes to design, get approval for, and construct civil infrastructure. It's almost like they thought that local government would just slap an approval stamp on everything because they showed up and promised to make them a bunch of money. I've definitely had clients do that before.

What I really want to know is do they have FAA approval for the coasters and slingshot tower? That's an important item afterall.....

What I really want to know is do they have FAA approval for the coasters and slingshot tower? That's an important item afterall.....

And will it make Dallas and KC jealous?

And will it make Dallas and KC jealous?

Uhhh...if you think otherwise, you must not know Gene Bicknell!

FAA approval isn't the hardest to get. Although I've never had to get it for something that tall. Can't get approval for something that hasn't been actually designed yet though... Have to submit a site plan and coordinates, plus final design height. Concepts aren't enough.

^ Shun the loser who doesn't get the inside jokes!!!!!

(just kidding lol)

^ Shun the loser who doesn't get the inside jokes!!!!!

(just kidding lol)

Sometimes the response is better than the joke itself. :) Glad someone agrees that FAA approval is not that big of a deal when it comes ro multimillion dollar developments.

^lol, I still have no idea what the reference is.

Anyway,

https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/business/vinita-theme-park-update-project-investment-may-now-be-up-to-2-5-billion/article_f40d07c6-fa95-11ee-81b6-03e0e7645f4a.html#tracking-source=mp-homepage

The latest update. Essentially they are saying that they are redesigning portions, including the RV park that is supposed to be under construction and the hotel. The say they ran into floodplain issues with the RV park. Sure seems like the cart is WAY before the horse. Running into floodplain issues is something that comes up during design - usually WAY before the contractor shows up and puts out silt fencing and the contractor staging area and such. So it seems they really were rushing to get a few turns of dirt moving just for the cameras... Or they just have no idea what they are doing and how this process works.

Regardless, they say they are still moving forward.

5 million in unpaid debts. Not off to a promising start.
https://nondoc.com/2024/05/09/company-claims-vinita-theme-park-developer-owes-5-5-million-for-unpaid-work/

“The market isn’t there,” Dennis Speigel, founder and CEO of Cincinnati-based International Theme Park Services, Inc., told NonDoc on Thursday. “It’s not a supportable investment in that market for a theme park. Now for an RV park, that’s totally different. There may be a million campers that go through that area, and that could be fine. But in terms of building a theme park that’s going to draw 4.9 million people in the first year, it’s just not practical, and it’s totally unrealistic. They don’t have the tourism, and they don’t have the local population to support it. And the industry as a whole, I haven’t heard anybody say they think it’s a viable and possible idea.”

https://nondoc.com/2023/10/20/vinita-annexation-land-theme-park-rv-groundbreaking/

Would be much smarter for them to lean into doing some type of resort on the Cherokee Spur Ranch property that has a ton of lake frontage. Could actually make money on that project.

Agree. A super nice RV park has always seemed to be the most logical and feasible part of this project. That sounds like a guaranteed money maker, imo.

The cynical view would be that the theme park was proposed to garner the attention it's gotten and to wow local government to assist in the project.

I will forever love the fact that their claim to competence in all their press releases is that they were the sponsor for the Rose Parade.

Also, makes OKANA even cooler in context. Props to the Chickasaws for actually doing what they said they would.

The whole thing was a sham and a trash idea from the very beginning. It needs to die.

The whole thing was a sham and a trash idea from the very beginning. It needs to die.

The park may be a sham but they did buy several thousand acres worth of property out there, both near Vinita and on Grand Lake. Will be interesting to see what they do with all of it whether they build a theme park or not.

The park may be a sham but they did buy several thousand acres worth of property out there, both near Vinita and on Grand Lake. Will be interesting to see what they do with all of it whether they build a theme park or not.

Your idea above made a lot more sense. I’m against the theme park nonsense.

Your idea above made a lot more sense. I’m against the theme park nonsense.

Agree, even IF the park was realistic lol. Much rather promote the lake than a new disney world in the middle of no where.

Having a consultant come after you in a situation like this is a big deal. The consultant stood to make a ton of money if this project made it to any sort of fruition. I imagine they had millions more dollars of work in the pipeline theoretically. For them to feel that they needed to do this says that they have zero faith in Mansion to be a viable enterprise to work with. I'm a civil consultant myself and have to be very careful to keep clients happy. Something like this is a nuclear option at the corporate level.

Everything about this proposal has been weird, and it's starting to add up to a complete fiasco. They have kept up appearances better than most of these pie in the sky development proposals, but the ship is starting to sink. Every time I think they may be able to pull something off, reality bites. They still don't seem to have approvals/final design for the tens of millions of dollars worth of off-site infrastructure needed. The RV park still needs to be redesigned and re-approved (was it approved in the first place?). They need to be starting on the theme park yesterday in order to even have the first bit open for 2026/27. It just doesn't add up.

Agree, even IF the park was realistic lol. Much rather promote the lake than a new disney world in the middle of no where.

The park would make much more sense if it was part of a resort on the lake itself.

I heard they already got FAA approval though :D

The park may be a sham but they did buy several thousand acres worth of property out there, both near Vinita and on Grand Lake. Will be interesting to see what they do with all of it whether they build a theme park or not.

Do you know if the check cleared?

The park would make much more sense if it was part of a resort on the lake itself.

Good point.

Do you know if the check cleared?

Most of it was purchased over a year ago and the deeds have been recorded so it would be pretty dumb on the part of the previous owners if they did so before clearing payment

I heard they already got FAA approval though :D

And they have cool renderings too!

Well if the theme park talk helped them spring board the RV park project then I would say 'mission accomplished?"

Most of it was purchased over a year ago and the deeds have been recorded so it would be pretty dumb on the part of the previous owners if they did so before clearing payment

Forgot to add "/s/ "

Forgot to add "/s/ "

I won't tell the FAA if you won't.

Article in the Oklahoman highlights.

Mostly stuff that we already know from the nondoc article.

“At this point the RV park is running behind schedule due to a redesign of the initial footprint,” Kristy Adams, spokesman for Mansion Entertainment told NonDoc in a story published on May 9. She also said the developer is working through some issues surrounding flooding with the Federal Emergency Management Agency.

“Some of you may have noticed that the RV park is lagging a little behind, and that’s my fault. I’m sorry,” Steve Hedrick, American Heartland executive producer of project development, told the council. “I asked the designers to compress the RV park.

Hedrick said more RV spaces could be added and that the planned resort has been expanded from 300 to 400 hotel rooms.

People still doubt the project will come off. HelloVinita.com, a local website launched last August as "an info hub for all things Vinita and American Heartland," was last updated on Dec. 18.

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/business/real-estate/2024/05/15/american-heartland-theme-park-vinita-oklahoma-lien-update/73646446007/

I think hearing them openly admit that they are behind schedule and working on new timelines is interesting. That's a big change to how they were talking last year while being repeatedly pressed about their crazy timeline.

I wonder how long it's going to take them to redesign the RV park. Theoretically they only have to change the flood plain areas and permitting should only take a few months if they aren't doing anything to intense right on the flood plain itself. If they were smart, they would do it right and apply for a CLOMR-F and actually update the floodplain to give them maximum buildable area - but that would take a year or more.

But who are they still working with? Since FORREC is taking legal action against them, are the other contractors getting paid?

I think hearing them openly admit that they are behind schedule and working on new timelines is interesting. That's a big change to how they were talking last year while being repeatedly pressed about their crazy timeline.

I wonder how long it's going to take them to redesign the RV park. Theoretically they only have to change the flood plain areas and permitting should only take a few months if they aren't doing anything to intense right on the flood plain itself. If they were smart, they would do it right and apply for a CLOMR-F and actually update the floodplain to give them maximum buildable area - but that would take a year or more.

But who are they still working with? Since FORREC is taking legal action against them, are the other contractors getting paid?

Why would anybody perform labor for an outfit with a $5.5M lien on them for not paying wages.

Over a month later, and still no action or firm statements from Mansion Group. https://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news/almost-a-year-since-announcement-no-signs-of-movement-for-vinita-theme-park

Basically, from the whispers here and there, it sounds like their whole plan is completely on fire now and they are struggling to figure out a real path forward. Some of it needs to wait on getting funding for the off-site utilities from the state. That was always a foreseeable delay, just like the floodplain issues. I imagine Mansion Group is very humbled now. Sounds like they still want to move forward, but they are slowly coming to the realization that this will be a 5 year minimum process, not a 2 year one like they originally thought.

I imagine the RV project COULD kick back off this year and be completed relatively fast, but since the success of that project hinges on there eventually getting the rest of the project developed, it would make more sense to wait until next year when they know they are able to move forward with the theme park. It would suck to get the RV park built only for the theme park to stay in limbo or get canceled.

So as we all thought, pie in the sky BS was just that.....

lol

^

Sorry, I deleted that 'apology' because I thought it was new, but it was from May 31st.

The Oklahoma had a story on it today and then I realized it's all very old news.

It would be very stereotypical "Oklahoma" of this whole thing if after all the song and dance, all we end up with is a trailer park LOL

I don't think anyone thought this would be more than an RV park from the start.

Various news outlets have been running stories on this lately, giving "updates" that point out that there isn't much to update. The most interesting one I've seen is from Tulsa World:


The RV/cabins area adjustments, he said, “gives us some extra time to work with FEMA (the Federal Emergency Management Agency) and get that flood plain resurveyed, et cetera, and get it in front of the government. That could actually be an expansion area,” he told the Vinita City Council.

However, the plastic fences currently near the planned RV/cabins area have signs that read “Do not disturb. Protected waters of the United States per the US Army Corps of Engineers. Tulsa Regulatory Office.”

Brannen Parrish, spokesman for the Army Corps of Engineers in the Tulsa region, which includes Vinita, said the Corps did not require signs, fencing or any other barriers at the site.

“The owner/developer of the property wanted to ensure the stream areas went undisturbed, as many different contractors were expected to be on site during the construction process,” he said in an email.

“The Corps issued a ‘No Permit Required’ letter based on the information provided by the applicant that the streams would be left undisturbed,” Parrish’s email said.

So that's really odd to hear that the property is not actually in a COE flood plain... There may still be some stormwater issues to address, but that makes a lot of the signage and fencing around the site very extraneous. That combined with the whole marketing around "dirt being moved" back early this year makes me wonder if the whole thing was just for show. Why is every part of this project so weird?

Because it's just a scam to try to get people to give them money for something that's never going to happen. If it did happen, it would be like The Producers. Sad for anyone that falls for this and funds it.

The latest:
https://www.nwahomepage.com/news/what-happened-to-northeast-oklahomas-disneyland-amusement-park/

No changes. Crossland and FORREC liens still in effect for nearly $6 million. Not answering their phones, and no updates to social media since late July. Someone in one of the FB groups that I follow around Vinita sent an email and got a response stating that there is no timeline for the RV park anymore.

I wouldn't say the whole thing is outright dead yet, but the buzzards are circling. Next year they will have another shot at state funding for some of the utilities. That may be what they are waiting for. If nothing has been approved by next summer I think we can officially call it dead.

I imagine they want to see if they can get SOMETHING built before starting on the RV park. At this point it wouldn't make sense to move forward with the RV park because nothing else that they have proposed seems likely to get approval/funding. They need to drastically scale back their plans, but with $6 million already in the hole that isn't going to be easy. Who would even work for them as designers with so many outstanding bills?

Again credit to the Chickasaws for OKANA actually existing.

Again credit to the Chickasaws for OKANA actually existing.

Haha... No kidding.

Anyone can throw together some renderings and attract a lot of attention to themselves, but actually building something of quality at scale is rare and usually takes decades of perseverance and hard work.

This has officially been delayed. But it will still happen according to developers, lol.

https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/business/2-5-billion-vinita-theme-park-to-be-delayed-years-but-developers-say-they-are/article_79447acc-8b47-11ef-899e-5bfe02a623f0.html?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR08SZc 5vcchdefBVZ35JnaYXvKkWXqs7t4s6piynbSHe79PlXYTnD5p4 Co_aem_xM4ODIjhO2GrN4MqyN55Tg

From that World article:


The initially planned 2026 opening of $2.5 billion Disney-like theme park in Vinita likely will be pushed back at least three years, but developers insist the massive project is still a go.

“We are continuing to move forward. We have had some temporary challenges to overcome but we are confident that we will be back on track soon,” Gene Bicknell, the project’s financial backer, said in a statement to the Tulsa World.


Gene Bicknell turned 92 in September.

Lol. Lmao, even. Who could have predicted this, besides everyone with a modicum of critical thinking? Just waiting for a similar article about Legends Tower.

Silver Dollar City is a great theme park not that far from where they wanted to build this. They are planning a huge expansion and currently building a resort. There is no need for another park in the region that probably won't come close to meeting expectations even if built.

I still say the whole reason "American Heartland" was conceived because a rich old guy hates Disney.

I still say the whole reason "American Heartland" was conceived because a rich old guy hates Disney.

He's a crazy old crank. He had a whole series of nutty podcasts that they had to hurry up and scrub from the internet because it was all so unhinged.

Your point about Silver Dollar City is right on. It's only two hours away and has the huge benefit of being near Branson, which makes the entire area a massive draw. You can't compete with these huge, well-established destinations with a campground in Vinita.

The whole thing makes as much sense as a 130-story building in Bricktown.

^lol, yeah when this project was first announced I recall looking through Mansion Entertainment and discussing how nutty it all was. It's supposed to be this huge media conglomerate, but all they've really done is awkwardly sponsor the Rose bowl parade for no discernable reason and operate a relatively small scale music venue in Branson with a few shows per month. They apparently put out some kind of animated show at one point that was all about the founder and his wife? It looked very weird and I'm not sure if it was ever actually released or what it was made for.

I mean, look at this on their website: https://www.mansionentertainmentgroup.com/copy-of-mansion-sound
It just looks and sounds bizarre. They even mention Walt Disney... I thought they were trying to take Disney down?

I've never known what to make of this whole thing. The owners are clearly off their rocker, but so are most rich people. They have made some actual movements towards construction that made everyone think something was happening. I mean, they actually produced a video showing earth moving equipment working out at the RV site at one point! People keep talking about it being a "scam" but as far as I can tell the only losers are the owners of Mansion Entertainment themselves. At least until public money truly gets involved for their off-site utilities.

Like I've said, the next legislative session is probably what everything is held up on. They need to get approval for the off-site utilities through that weirdly specific bill that was shelved last session. If that isn't passed, I think that will end this boondoggle. If it does... who knows what will happen.

I do think they could compete with SDC though. I don't think the location is as big an issue as people think. Branson is absolutely slammed and SDC is starting to turn people off because it has gotten so crowded and expensive. A smaller park right off of I-44 near another huge lake could work. Of course, you'd have to have the right scope and business plan...

He's a crazy old crank. He had a whole series of nutty podcasts that they had to hurry up and scrub from the internet because it was all so unhinged.Interesting side note: he appeared as one of the the Baseball Furies in the movie "The Warriors." I saw that movie in the summer of 1979 at the Skyview Drive-In in Oklahoma City.

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0081074/

^

Like the Boardwalk at Bricktown, the possible scam comes into play with investors and lenders.

Tons of promotion and a handful of pretty renderings, then they go out soliciting money.

Headline from an article on Apple News this morning from Construction Dive magazine.

“Oklahoma’s $2.5B Disney-sized theme park reportedly fails to launch”
“The opening of the American Heartland development in Vinita has been pushed back and two firms have filed liens against the developers”

The article states one firm has filed suit over $5.5 million in unpaid design services for the theme and RV park and a second firm for non payment of $350,000 in services provided last February. The developer says the project is on hold pending permit approval from the Army Corp of Engineers.

The Corp of Engineers has already come out saying that they are not the ones holding this up. The RV property does not have any major floodplains apparently, although they do have to implement typical stormwater/erosion protections and have the usual SWPPP in place. The corp has even offered a conditional permit so they can get started on at least some of the RV park if they wanted to. It sounded to me like they didn't understand the process at all and just kind of started construction with an unfinished design.

Someone on one of the FB groups pointed out to me that the lien issue is progressing. Apparently there are new court filings. They are going to start foreclosure proceedings on the property... The lien had an interest charge that was very steep.

https://www.newsweek.com/oklahoma-american-heartland-theme-park-disney-1985600

Epic. Imagine That!

It's hilarious they keep saying they will open in late 2026, which is only two years away.

No matter they haven't started work or even have a current timeline.

It just shows how completely delusional these people are, and how anything they say or promise has no connection to reality.

The last I heard from someone directly tied with American heartland they are not sticking to the timeline but said things are still on track to get started soon but will not open until 27 at the earliest

2028 at the earliest and that's if they got started in 2025 which I doubt they will.