Could there be criminal charges at the start of the new school year?
https://kfor-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/kfor.com/news/local/state-attorney-general-reacts-to-new-state-audit/amp/?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQIUAKwASCAAgM%3D#amp_ct=1688139228240&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16881391443669&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fkfor.com%2Fnews%2Flocal%2Fs tate-attorney-general-reacts-to-new-state-audit%2F⁸

Ryan Walters is either incompetent or corrupt, but most likely both. We'll see if the facts merit prosecution, but at the very least his actions to date merit impeachment.

Ryan Walters is either incompetent or corrupt, but most likely both. We'll see if the facts merit prosecution, but at the very least his actions to date merit impeachment.

It appears that this could go to the Governor's office.
Federal and State charges could be in play.
https://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news/amid-scathing-audit-crossover-prep-exec-dir-says-the-school-followed-gov-stitts-direction

What exactly are you guys upset about? There were two programs designed to help low income students stay in school. The governor identified 5 private schools that had a high percentage of low-income students and made them aware of the program in advance. I don't see anywhere were it said their applications were accepted early, just that they could use the portal. But these were 5 schools that serve primarily low-income students. It isn't like the money went to Cassidy.

The second program paid the money directly to low income parents who were supposed to buy school related items. Now I would be the first to agree that a toaster oven isn't a necessary school supply, but....then we have the school lunch program predicated on the belief that children don't get fed at home so the school supplies it, so maybe someone could argue a toaster (or other kitchen appliance) IS a necessary education item when the school is closed.

What exactly are you guys upset about? There were two programs designed to help low income students stay in school. The governor identified 5 private schools that had a high percentage of low-income students and made them aware of the program in advance. I don't see anywhere were it said their applications were accepted early, just that they could use the portal. But these were 5 schools that serve primarily low-income students. It isn't like the money went to Cassidy.

The second program paid the money directly to low income parents who were supposed to buy school related items. Now I would be the first to agree that a toaster oven isn't a necessary school supply, but....then we have the school lunch program predicated on the belief that children don't get fed at home so the school supplies it, so maybe someone could argue a toaster (or other kitchen appliance) IS a necessary education item when the school is closed.

Sounds like you're just buying Stitt and Walter's explanation. If you want the real story read this article.

https://www.readfrontier.org/stories/audit-finds-special-interest-groups-gave-oklahoma-private-schools-first-dibs-on-federal-relief-money-while-rejecting-poor-kids/

Or better yet, read the audit.

https://www.sai.ok.gov/Byrd_SFY21_Federal_Single_Audit_Release.pdf

Thanks for the links and I'll read them as soon as I can. I'm not an apologist for anyone but I don't get upset with stuff just because someone told me I should be upset - and it really looks to me with what I know so far that this is the case here. Honestly, if Stitt had a D behind his name I would think the very people crying foul here would instead be applauding. But I'm open to be wrong so I'll take a look at your items.

Okay - read both links and I am going stand by what I have already said. Despite all the hand ringing, only $650,000 is being asked to be returned. The real failure here is giving federal money directly to people, but that failure is rampant across almost every federal social program. I know people who sold milk vouchers so they could buy drugs.

As for the "special interest" and "secret private schools"; they aren't secret, their names have been published and they were all private schools that cater almost exclusively to poor families. Now yes, if the tuition for those students were already covered under another program then the school is double-dipping but I have no doubt the headline in that case would be "Stitt Rips Funds from Poor Kids".

When my son was little all he would eat was hotdogs and chicken strips but I quickly figured out that what he really wanted to eat was ketchup and hotdogs/chicken fingers were just the delivery vehicle and when I took the ketchup away he started eating other foods.

I think that is what is happening here. You want to hate Stitt, and this is just an opportunity to do so.

Okay - read both links and I am going stand by what I have already said. Despite all the hand ringing, only $650,000 is being asked to be returned. The real failure here is giving federal money directly to people, but that failure is rampant across almost every federal social program. I know people who sold milk vouchers so they could buy drugs.

As for the "special interest" and "secret private schools"; they aren't secret, their names have been published and they were all private schools that cater almost exclusively to poor families. Now yes, if the tuition for those students were already covered under another program then the school is double-dipping but I have no doubt the headline in that case would be "Stitt Rips Funds from Poor Kids".

When my son was little all he would eat was hotdogs and chicken strips but I quickly figured out that what he really wanted to eat was ketchup and hotdogs/chicken fingers were just the delivery vehicle and when I took the ketchup away he started eating other foods.

I think that is what is happening here. You want to hate Stitt, and this is just an opportunity to do so.

So this didn't bother you a bit?

Stay in School program administrators allowed the five schools to hold an open house to accept applications before the forms were made available to the general public.

Students from the preferred schools were awarded the maximum $6,500 per-student and received enrollment exceptions for children who had not previously attended, the audit found.

After funds ran dry, 657 students of low-income families who qualified for the Stay in School program did not get the financial assistance. More than $5.3 million went to families who said they did not have a pandemic-related financial hardship. The audit also found private schools received $1.8 million in excess of families’ tuition responsibilities.

Or this?

According to Byrd’s report, administrators of the Stay in School program were involved in a “deliberate operation to give selected private schools and individuals preferential treatment by allowing early access for application submission prior to the date this program was offered to the general public.”

Or this?

The report found programs were overseen by individuals and private organizations who were unqualified, didn’t have contracts with the state authorizing them to perform the work and were granted access to confidential student records.

“This was a tangled web of government agencies, non-profit organizations, and non-government individuals representing special interest groups managing millions of tax dollars with no contracts and no written agreements,” Byrd said. “Sadly, millions of tax dollars were misspent because certain individuals who were put in charge of managing these programs seemingly ignored federal grant guidelines.”

Is that how you want your state run?

Yes it bothers me, but obviously not to the extent that it is bothering you and others. It bothers me in sense that it is just another federal program run amuck, but where is the news in that? Every single federal program regardless of who implements it is strife with fraud and misappropriations.

And they keep using the "select private schools" and similar language to imply some senister underground funneling of money. The governor identified 5 private schools that cater to those most in need of this program. Are you really that upset with that? Honestly, would you actually want that to happen?

Every program runs out of money because we have a large segment of our society looking for every handout they can get. Name one single state, local, or federal program that has money left over.

If schools double -dipped then yes they should pay the money back but I don't want to hear a bunch of belly-aching about pulling funds from poor kids when it happens.

Despite all the hand ringing, only $650,000 is being asked to be returned.

$650,000 so far. The State Auditor found over $29.2M in mishandled funds that was required to be reported to the federal government. In the Stay In School program alone $6.5M in grant funds were found to be questionable. That was 65% of the total!

https://kfor.com/news/local/state-auditor-finds-over-29-million-in-questionable-spending-of-federal-grants/

At a certain point one has to wonder (well, obviously not you) when these actions move from incompetence to corruption to criminal.

Yes, but the Feds still only asked for $650,000 back.

Are you wanting arrest the parent that bought a microwave? Does that parent get to keep the microwave or should they box it back up and return to sender?

The Feds gave money to the State and the State gave the money to parents to assist with educational needs. The parents misspent the money.

And they keep using the "select private schools" and similar language to imply some senister underground funneling of money. The governor identified 5 private schools that cater to those most in need of this program. Are you really that upset with that? Honestly, would you actually want that to happen?

Once again you're just repeating the governor's spin. Next are you going to repeat his and Walter's lie that all the misspent money for GEER was Class Wallet's fault?

This is what bothers me, that more than $5.3M went to families that said they had NO financial hardship and 657 students of needy families got nothing because they weren't given the preferential treatment of early access.

Yes, but the Feds still only asked for $650,000 back. Are you wanting arrest the parent that bought a microwave? Does that parent get to keep the microwave or should they box it back up and return to sender?

The Feds gave miney to the State and the State gave the money to parents to assist with educational needs. The parents misspent the money.

Why are you changing the subject? Every family that bought non-educational goods did so legally because Walters failed to put any limits on what they could buy. Class Wallet sent him an email asking if he wanted to put limits on purchases (as the 27 other states they assisted did) and he said no. The state (us, the taxpayers) is liable thanks to Walters.

Should there have been limits, absolutely, but what should those limits have been if it were up to you to put the restrictions on it? What do you think a parent should be able to use public funds on to raise their own children?

Yes it bothers me, but obviously not to the extent that it is bothering you and others. It bothers me in sense that it is just another federal program run amuck, but where is the news in that? Every single federal program regardless of who implements it is strife with fraud and misappropriations.

And they keep using the "select private schools" and similar language to imply some senister underground funneling of money. The governor identified 5 private schools that cater to those most in need of this program. Are you really that upset with that? Honestly, would you actually want that to happen?

Every program runs out of money because we have a large segment of our society looking for every handout they can get. Name one single state, local, or federal program that has money left over.

If schools double -dipped then yes they should pay the money back but I don't want to hear a bunch of belly-aching about pulling funds from poor kids when it happens.

Just repeated spin from the Oklahoma extremists. Deny, spin, obfuscate. Redirect.

Should there have been limits, absolutely, but what should those limits have been if it were up to you to put the restrictions on it? What do you think a parent should be able to use public funds on to raise their own children?

Why do you keep trying to change the subject from the incompetence/corruption of Stitt & Walters?

Thanks for the links and I'll read them as soon as I can. I'm not an apologist for anyone but I don't get upset with stuff just because someone told me I should be upset - and it really looks to me with what I know so far that this is the case here. Honestly, if Stitt had a D behind his name I would think the very people crying foul here would instead be applauding. But I'm open to be wrong so I'll take a look at your items.

No.

The audit was completed by the Republican state auditor Cindy Byrd.

And the Republican Attorney General Getner Drummond isn't happy about it either and is looking into criminal activity.

https://tulsaworld.com/news/state-regional/oklahoma-ag-cites-absolute-failure-of-leadership-after-audit-of-pandemic-fund-spending/article_06de4cd6-175a-11ee-9703-4b18394647f8.html#tracking-source=home-top-story

See, this where you lose me. What corruption? I read the report and it doesn't present any facts related to corruption. It makes accusations and uses language like "special interest" and "preferential treatment". Those are litterally dog whistles to get people riled up, and specifically people prone to being riled up (see Trump 101). It doesn't even say what special interest and what preferential treatment, unless you want to say that special interest were poor kids, and the preferential treatment was letting them apply early, but hell, the report doesn't even specify what 'early' is.

Anyhow, I think I've covered my point of view so I'll be happy to give others the last word, and I'll wait until further details are revealed. Who knows, I might even change my mind but until then I keep my torch and pitchfork in their cases.

What exactly are you guys upset about? There were two programs designed to help low income students stay in school. The governor identified 5 private schools that had a high percentage of low-income students and made them aware of the program in advance. I don't see anywhere were it said their applications were accepted early, just that they could use the portal. But these were 5 schools that serve primarily low-income students. It isn't like the money went to Cassidy.

The second program paid the money directly to low income parents who were supposed to buy school related items. Now I would be the first to agree that a toaster oven isn't a necessary school supply, but....then we have the school lunch program predicated on the belief that children don't get fed at home so the school supplies it, so maybe someone could argue a toaster (or other kitchen appliance) IS a necessary education item when the school is closed.

The question might be better asked of the AG " Why is there a criminal investigation"?
This Governor has been cavaliar with public monies from purchasing a million dollars worth of a unproven non effective drug that was touted by the leader of the GOP to a 2 million no bid contract to a Tulsa bar owner for facemasks that were not by and large delivered.
We are upset at the ongoing incompetance. To blame it on the Oklahoma parents when other states figured it out on appropriate school supplies is more buck passing. To rationalize a toaster oven as a school supply when schools are closed is silly. Schools were closed on weekends, holidays, and the summer before the pandemic.

Is there a criminal investigation? I just read that the AG said if they uncovered any criminal activity in the audit they would prosecute it. Well duh, that is true of almost everything. That is kind of their entire job.

I agree with you 100% on your last sentence. Why should schools have to feed children for free even when they are open?

I agree with you 100% on your last sentence. Why should schools have to feed children for free even when they are open?
That’s not what he was saying and you know it.

You don’t appear stupid, so I assume you are purposely spinning to a political purpose. We know that feeding young kids whose parents are financially unable to provide good nutrition penalizes those kids and their ability to learn, helping keeping them in a cycle of poverty. Not helping these kids is a good way for the haves to keep the have nots down. It’s a great way for those that claim to be for a merit based system to keep things tilted in their favor.

Good grief, why did Just the facts, get banned? He didn't call anybody names. I was following an interesting and informative discussion. Just the facts has been a credit to this forum ever since 2011 with a whopping 15,381 posts! If the problem is about politics, well it can be hard to always steer clear of politics, whether you want to bring up controversies regarding the development and expansion of Oklahoma City or the entire state of Oklahoma. To me, contributors of very long duration, such as Just the facts, should at most be disciplined in some way such as a temporary suspension and never a permanent ban.

I would prefer going back to a forum just for politics, if it can be monitored better than before. A well monitored political forum doesn't necessarily have to end up being a bad reflection upon OKC Talk or Oklahoma City and would result in increased web traffic.

And if I'm wrong for being out of place and discussion of politics here is banned, then why not just delete this entire thread now?

Good grief, why did Just the facts, get banned?

I didn't realize he was banned, but I've had him on mute for some time and only saw his posts when another poster would quote him. That being said, wasn't he gone for a long time? When he came back he seemed totally different than the JTF of yore. Ironically, he didn't seemed too interested in facts in his current incarnation.

I didn't realize he was banned, but I've had him on mute for some time and only saw his posts when another poster would quote him. That being said, wasn't he gone for a long time? When he came back he seemed totally different than the JTF of yore. Ironically, he didn't seemed too interested in facts in his current incarnation.
This is spot on. The JTF that returned wasn’t the same.

Yes it bothers me, but obviously not to the extent that it is bothering you and others. It bothers me in sense that it is just another federal program run amuck, but where is the news in that? Every single federal program regardless of who implements it is strife with fraud and misappropriations.

And they keep using the "select private schools" and similar language to imply some senister underground funneling of money. The governor identified 5 private schools that cater to those most in need of this program. Are you really that upset with that? Honestly, would you actually want that to happen?

Every program runs out of money because we have a large segment of our society looking for every handout they can get. Name one single state, local, or federal program that has money left over.

If schools double -dipped then yes they should pay the money back but I don't want to hear a bunch of belly-aching about pulling funds from poor kids when it happens.

You are such an ideologue — and you don’t live here. Ryan Walters is a book-banning Nazi and Stitt is a troll. They are pushing to get government money into the hands of private school parents. It’s a long-time conservative wet dream. They don’t let silly laws and auditors get in the way.

That you wouldn’t be bothered by this speaks to the cult-like lawlessness of the Trump era.

Good grief, why did Just the facts, get banned? He didn't call anybody names. I was following an interesting and informative discussion. Just the facts has been a credit to this forum ever since 2011 with a whopping 15,381 posts! If the problem is about politics, well it can be hard to always steer clear of politics, whether you want to bring up controversies regarding the development and expansion of Oklahoma City or the entire state of Oklahoma. To me, contributors of very long duration, such as Just the facts, should at most be disciplined in some way such as a temporary suspension and never a permanent ban.

I would prefer going back to a forum just for politics, if it can be monitored better than before. A well monitored political forum doesn't necessarily have to end up being a bad reflection upon OKC Talk or Oklahoma City and would result in increased web traffic.

And if I'm wrong for being out of place and discussion of politics here is banned, then why not just delete this entire thread now?

I assume it was more to do with the development related threads. Same tired old inaccurate arguments were used and JTF was asked to stop. This is Pete's site and he can run it how he likes. Just like how Twitter is Elon's and Facebook is Mark's.

Just the facts has been a credit to this forum ever since 2011 with a whopping 15,381 posts!

number of posts isn't relevant when you look at what they were actually posting. just because someone posts 20 articles in separate posts, back to back to back, etc, that are all easily disproved with a 15 second google search, it goes to show that most of their posts were disingenuous at best, or they were just trolling. i have had them on mute for a long time, but it never failed, they treated the regular forum the same way they were treating the politics forum at the end. literally just posting to cause problems, because there was no value to anything they actually posted.

He used to post engaging commentary and content. But his return was from the deep end, with every post trying to start an argument at every opportunity.

Good grief, why did Just the facts, get banned? He didn't call anybody names. I was following an interesting and informative discussion. Just the facts has been a credit to this forum ever since 2011 with a whopping 15,381 posts! If the problem is about politics, well it can be hard to always steer clear of politics, whether you want to bring up controversies regarding the development and expansion of Oklahoma City or the entire state of Oklahoma. To me, contributors of very long duration, such as Just the facts, should at most be disciplined in some way such as a temporary suspension and never a permanent ban.

I would prefer going back to a forum just for politics, if it can be monitored better than before. A well monitored political forum doesn't necessarily have to end up being a bad reflection upon OKC Talk or Oklahoma City and would result in increased web traffic.

And if I'm wrong for being out of place and discussion of politics here is banned, then why not just delete this entire thread now?

I could definitely be wrong on this, but I think that a dedicated politics forum would bring out the very worst in the posters, and the nastiness would very likely spill over into the rest of the fora.

I could definitely be wrong on this, but I think that a dedicated politics forum would bring out the very worst in the posters, and the nastiness would very likely spill over into the rest of the fora.

I mean, we used to have a dedicated politics forum, and from a user perspective I thought it was fine... I didn't see much (if any) spillover that I can remember. But I'm sure it was an absolute headache from the admin/moderator perspective.

I mean, we used to have a dedicated politics forum, and from a user perspective I thought it was fine... I didn't see much (if any) spillover that I can remember. But I'm sure it was an absolute headache from the admin/moderator perspective.

exactly. i actually think the spillover has actually gotten worse since it went away. there were posters i used to argue with all the time in the politics forums, only to have legit and well thought out discussions on the other side of the forums, and now I think some of those same posters, often get borderline or just jump right into politics pretty often now on topics where i don't think they would have before when they were posting a lot in the politics thread. it's like it got it out of all of our systems. But i do agree it had to have been a majority of the admin/moderator work, so i get why it went away.

exactly. i actually think the spillover has actually gotten worse since it went away. there were posters i used to argue with all the time in the politics forums, only to have legit and well thought out discussions on the other side of the forums, and now I think some of those same posters, often get borderline or just jump right into politics pretty often now on topics where i don't think they would have before when they were posting a lot in the politics thread. it's like it got it out of all of our systems. But i do agree it had to have been a majority of the admin/moderator work, so i get why it went away.

Everything is pollical in some form or another. Oklahoma's success or lack of success all goes back to some legislation that was passed or repealed.

This thread should have got locked from the get go.

Everything is pollical in some form or another. Oklahoma's success or lack of success all goes back to some legislation that was passed or repealed.

yes. and discussing the political aspects that affect a direct project are fine and understandable. however, that isn't what i'm talking about.

Back to topic, while I can see what was done here was negligent, maybe even malicious, I'm not sure I have a solid read on which criminal statute might have been violated. Those funds were distributed with little to no oversight and I think they were ostensibly distributed according to the letter of the law, definitely not the spirit of it. I doubt there can be a showing of some kind of quid pro quo. And we may even be penalized by the feds and they may try to claw the money back from other programs--no idea on that.

So while this should be illegal, I'm not 100% sure that it is. We have never had a governor or superintendant who wanted to bring down public schools in this State and favored private and religious schools to this extent.

The people definitely got what they voted for though!

. . another case of finding a loophole and slithering through. . . .

I assume it was more to do with the development related threads. Same tired old inaccurate arguments were used and JTF was asked to stop. This is Pete's site and he can run it how he likes. Just like how Twitter is Elon's and Facebook is Mark's.

I will appologize in advance for this posting but the JUST-THE-FACTS banning makes me feel l must say this though it will probably get me banned permanently.

This IS Pete's site and l can tell you from very recent experience he will do whatever the F he wants and give no warning or explanation to the suspended/banned poster if he doesn't like his/her content - even when asked nicely for it both within and outside this site. What l experienced was simply -boom! Unable to access the forums. No warning, no explanation, no communication. To this moment l still have no idea why l was banned and assumed it was permanent even though l asked repeatedly "why?" At least Pete gave veiled warning to JTF. This happened once before, a few years ago, when he didn't like my political viewpoint.

I say this with all due respect for Pete because outside of how l've been treated recently, this forum is awesome and the vast majority of Pete's work is fabulous. I love how he is able to just poke the Oklahoman and TV media in the eye by constantly scooping them on major business and development stories as well as the reliability of the content for accuracy. I also love reading rational opinions on both sides of an issue.

I will also say l miss the political forums even though they did sometimes degrade into absurdity - and l admit to participating in that degradation. But those forums were also a valuable source of open and honest political discussion and information that is desperately-needed today. Media has become so slanted on both sides its hard to be confident you ever have the truth.

OKCtalk reminds me of a situation l have knowledge of about a company 20 or so years ago that was one of the pioneers of desktop publishing software. It was owned by a man who ran the company like a "mom-and-pop" business even though it was becoming a worldwide success. This man was the financing and "business" while another man created the software. The owner didn't recognize he needed help and to relinquish total control so he could focus on what he did best. I see this same situation with this forum.

The long-and-short was the owner of this desktop publishing company pioneer didn't recognize what he had and his great desire for control eventually led to other companies like Adobe, taking his market away from him. I see a great product Pete has built but is focusing on minutiae and needs some help. When l look at my own experience on here and then see JTF being suddenly banned - probably with no warning or communication - l see censorship which is a cardinal sin in a business that revolves around communication and speech. You may not like or agree with everything a person has to say but it's open and honest discussion. Put the person on mute if you don't like the poster's viewpoint that much. Ignore him. I know some of you put me on mute.

I would suggest that Pete could find people to volunteer to help monitor forums - even restarting the political forums - set clear behavioral and contribution guidelines for participation - and continue to provide a desperately needed communication platform. Heck, l would be happy to volunteer and l bet several of you would volunteer as well.

This would free Pete up to focus on monetizing the forum and focus on what he does best - as well as allowing his business to grow.

As for JTF, I didn't agree with him on so many things but as was said earlier, he was respecful, he didn't name-call, he didn't misbehave, he just gave his opinion and those who he irritated to such an extent could have muted him and ignored him. To arbitrarily ban people smacks of Twitter - both 1.0 (progressive viewpoints only) and 2.0 (Elon Musk conservative verson).

I hope this is taken as it's intended as my opinion and constructive criticism, but if not and l get banned, everyone be well, have good fortune and peace.

^

Thank you for the feedback. And I do appreciate your participation over the years.


For the record, the banning of JTF has zero to do with politics -- it had to do with commandeering countless threads and having all of them devolve into utter nonsense. It was beyond exhausting and brought nothing to the site.


There is absolutely no doubt in my mind OKCTalk has been much better since we removed politics. I've received that same feedback over and over.

We are too divided as a country, state, and city. Online discussion makes that worse and there is a strong argument to be made that the internet has been the single biggest wedge in the history of civilization. I do not want to contribute to that.


So, respectfully, we will leave things as they currently are. And please give me a break (not aimed at any one person) and stop and think before you post anything remotely political. It's no fun having to police, delete and even ban.


This site is and always will be about passion for Oklahoma City and Oklahoma. Let's please keep our focus there.

I don't miss the politics forum at all.