Yeah, I'm not a real big fan of competitions that require a non-participant to decide the winner. I don't even watch the singing or dancing reality TV shows.

Sounds conspiratorial. Judging doesn’t equal deciding the winner. It means making sure rules are followed and the system of scoring is adhered to as much as possible. Every sport has ways of cheating or accidentally being outside the rules to gain an advantage. If cheating is okay or gaining an advantage unfairly is your idea of fair competition, then that is telling. That’s where many in our society have gotten….no rules, no judgement, just anything goes to win.

Many or most of the people who think judges are arbitrarily changing outcomes generally have no clue or ability to judge but rather look at the event with biased or untrained perception of what is actually happening. And when mistakes are made are quick to see it as a conspiracy because they’d rather believe that. Fans are emotion driven.

Except every single sport has judgment. Football, basketball, baseball and virtually everything else have results that can be completely determined by calls made by human officials. Replay reviews have helped but not eliminated this.

Even something seemingly straightforward as a foot race or swimming has humans deciding if there is a false start, and sometimes athletes get disqualified before they even get their chance. There is actually a lot of judgment in swimming regarding strokes, turns, time spent underwater, etc.


Human judgment is part and parcel of any competition.
I get it, and I agree. There are degrees of it, of course. And what I’m saying is that the more an official’s judgment is required the less enjoyable I find a sport. In most sports the bulk of the scoring or rule administration is pretty straightforward and obvious even to the untrained eye. Did the ball cross the line, or did it not cross the line? Did it go through the hoop, or did it not? Did this person outrun that person? Did they jump higher?

When officiating becomes a major deciding factor in those sports the outcomes are often considered controversial and potentially corrupt. Men’s Olympic basketball in 1972. Oklahoma-Oregon. You can go on and on, but the reality is that sports are better when the officiant’s subjective opinion is not the headline.

Contrast that with sports where nearly 100% of the scoring is based upon the subjective opinion of an “expert.” They might be fun to watch, graceful and athletic displays, but when it requires a trained eye to say this individual is better than that individual it loses some of the purity of sport, in my opinion.

Imagine if a field goal in football was worth 1, 2 , or 3 points based on how well the kicker pointed his toe on the follow thru.

Imagine if a field goal in football was worth 1, 2 , or 3 points based on how well the kicker pointed his toe on the follow thru.

Or if human officials made a questionable call as to if the field goal was good or not good.

^^^^^^^
But that’s just the thing. It is incredibly rare for such a thing to happen. Questionable or even tainted judging in ranked performance-based competitions is part and parcel with the Olympics. A time-honored tradition.

I know coutries held competitions off-site in other cities in the past. Did each city have it's own athlete's village or is there only one?

Imagine if a field goal in football was worth 1, 2 , or 3 points based on how well the kicker pointed his toe on the follow thru.

I feel like you are just a contrarian, for no reason.

Your argument here lacks any logic, whatsoever. The judges are experts in that field (ice skating, gymnastics, etc). It isn't like they get some inbred hayseed to judge. There are also set criteria they look for when scoring and judging. Sure, there is some human element, but winners are VERY RARELY, if ever determined because one judge disagrees with the others.

But a charge versus a block in basketball can be very judgemental, as well. Or pass interference.

^^^^^^^
But that’s just the thing. It is incredibly rare for such a thing to happen. Questionable or even tainted judging in ranked performance-based competitions is part and parcel with the Olympics. A time-honored tradition.

There are literally dozens of questionable judgment calls in every single football, basketball and baseball game ever played.


This is such a silly argument. It's fine to like certain sports more than others but the judgment of officials influences every single sport.

Yeah, I'm not a real big fan of competitions that require a non-participant to decide the winner. I don't even watch the singing or dancing reality TV shows.

Didn't you say just the other day that you're not a fan of sports, period, or did I misunderstand? You likened sports fans to cult members, if memory serves.

We all probably need to stop responding to JTF and enabling him to take every subject and turn it into some nonsensical tangent.

A quick Google search (https://www.google.com/search?q=olympic+judging+tainted&rlz=1C9BKJA_enUS995US995&hl=en-US&sxsrf=APwXEdd_jXjleq0kFTMBrr-XIyxn3Ckt7w%3A1686580595878&ei=cy2HZJaVNfWrqtsP0qW3wA0&oq=olympic+judging+tainted&gs_lcp=ChNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwEAMyBQghEKABMgU IIRCgAToKCAAQRxDWBBCwAzoGCAAQFhAeOggIABAWEB4QCjoIC AAQigUQhgNKBAhBGABQ5w9Yzh1g1CloAXABeACAAV2IAewEkgE BOJgBAKABAcABAcgBCA&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp#ip=1) for tainted officiating at the Olympics returns scores of results, and nearly all of them revolve around sports like figure skating, gymnastics, snowboarding, diving, boxing. Sports where scoring is often - or even always - completely subjective. You generally do NOT see such massive controversies in sports like track and field, or - topically - whitewater canoe/kayak, or other less-subjective sports.

I’m not arguing against such sports being valid; just saying that I find them to be less credible and therefore less enjoyable, for me at least.

There are literally dozens of questionable judgment calls in every single football, basketball and baseball game ever played.


This is such a silly argument. It's fine to like certain sports more than others but the judgment of officials influences every single sport.
Hardly silly. It’s an objectively more credible outcome when an athlete competes and wins vs a clock, a physical limitation, a weight, a goal, as opposed to competing for the favor of a judge. Some sports (for instance figure skating or gymnastics) even have outcomes that hinge on personal demeanor. THAT’S what silly looks like.

Let's please get back to discussing the 2028 Olympics in OKC.

Hope there are some funds that will add to the Oklahoma River amenities.

What is the percentage chance of this happening?

For both the whitewater events and then the river events?

What is the percentage chance of this happening?

For both the whitewater events and then the river events?

Whitewater 90%. I think it's a done deal, just not announced.

Rowing, no idea but OKC has to be pitching hard.

Still hearing the whitewater events in OKC are signed, but the IOC and LA28 will formally announce all the sports and venues before the end of the year and probably in the fall.

Don't know about rowing or river-based events but I believe they are still a slim possibility.


This is going to be such a huge deal for OKC. Will be the first time to be on a truly international stage; exposure very few cities have experienced.

Still hearing the whitewater events in OKC are signed, but the IOC and LA28 will formally announce all the sports and venues before the end of the year and probably in the fall.

Don't know about rowing or river-based events but I believe they are still a slim possibility.


This is going to be such a huge deal for OKC. Will be the first time to be on a truly international stage; exposure very few cities have experienced.

Unreal! And, well deserved. OKC belongs on that stage.

Now, we should hope that we land all of the sports we are vying for -- and that we have a freakishly cool late July in 2028.

I noticed that the LA2028 website lists Lake Perris as the site for the rowing and canoe sprint competitions rather than Long Beach Marine Stadium as was previously planned.

I read a little about Lake Perris. I'm sure the crystal-clear Oklahoma River isn't much better but this is posted about Lake Perris: The California Office of Environmental Health Hazard Assessment has issued a safe eating advisory for any fish caught in the Lake Perris due to elevated levels of mercury and PCBs.

I noticed that the LA2028 website lists Lake Perris as the site for the rowing and canoe sprint competitions rather than Long Beach Marine Stadium as was previously planned.

That was the original site for the bid, it was later moved to Long Beach. Given the style of the website, it probably was contracted out to a 3rd party to be created before they were awarded the bid or shortly after, and do not have anyone on staff with capacity to make edits.

That was the original site for the bid, it was later moved to Long Beach. Given the style of the website, it probably was contracted out to a 3rd party to be created before they were awarded the bid or shortly after, and do not have anyone on staff with capacity to make edits.

Gotcha. Thanks for the insight. That gives me slightly more hope that we could land those events.

yes, hopefully the market will respond in kind. Would LOVE to see highrise Marriott, Hyatt, Westin, and Hilton added to downtown. ...

OMG, give me a JW or Ritz-Carlton! OKC could never. lol (Well, maybe one day!)

Hardly silly. It’s an objectively more credible outcome when an athlete competes and wins vs a clock, a physical limitation, a weight, a goal, as opposed to competing for the favor of a judge. Some sports (for instance figure skating or gymnastics) even have outcomes that hinge on personal demeanor. THAT’S what silly looks like.
I don’t think you really understand the scoring systems and how judging is done. Amateurs rarely understand the finer points so they assume there isn’t objectivity.

Rover. Commentators openly discuss on-air the idea that smiling and a confident look help sell routines. That’s subjectivity in spades. In the past, Soviet bloc judges openly favored Soviet bloc competitors, and even today there are routinely controversies attributed to nationalism and other non-sports elements. Do a Google search for Olympic sports controversy and fraud and see what sports proliferate in the results. It’s the overwhelmingly the judged competitions. Bias is real. If I’m an athlete I’d rather win or lose based on whether I ran faster, jumped higher, threw further or more accurately.

Rover. Commentators openly discuss on-air the idea that smiling and a confident look help sell routines. That’s subjectivity in spades. In the past, Soviet bloc judges openly favored Soviet bloc competitors, and even today there are routinely controversies attributed to nationalism and other non-sports elements. Do a Google search for Olympic sports controversy and fraud and see what sports proliferate in the results. It’s the overwhelmingly the judged competitions. Bias is real. If I’m an athlete I’d rather win or lose based on whether I ran faster, jumped higher, threw further or more accurately.
Guess we can throw out basketball, baseball, soccer, softball, etc, etc that all use judgment by officials as part of the game. Lol.

To deny there is a measurable difference in performance in things like gymnastics, skating, etc is just not true. You don’t just give participation trophies and all scoring is just whimsical. And, there isn’t a preponderance of black helicopters hovering over the matches. There can be cheating and corruption in any sport …. Illegal drugs in those unassailable sports you value. But to deny there is objective judging is just incorrect. Some athletes ARE better than others even if the untrained can’t see it.

I don’t think you really understand the scoring systems and how judging is done. Amateurs rarely understand the finer points so they assume there isn’t objectivity.

The Performance Component part of figure skating scoring literally CANNOT be objective:

Skating Skills - Overall skating quality, including edge control and flow over the ice surface (edges, steps, turns, speed, etc.), clarity of technique and use of effortless power to accelerate and vary speed.

Transitions - The varied and/or intricate footwork, positions, movement and holds that link all elements.

Performance - The involvement of the skater physically, emotionally and intellectually in translating the music and choreography.

Composition - An intentional, developed and/or original arrangement of all types of movements according to the principles of proportion, unity, space, pattern, structure and phrasing.

Interpretation of Music - The personal and creative translation of the music to the movement on the ice.

I think the difference in basketball, baseball, soccer, and softball is that those games are over an hour long and one bad call may not necessarily tilt the balance of the game.

In gymnastics and similar sports, you have top athletes that are pretty close to each other in skill level competing in a two minute routine where you could have two performances that could both be considered 'perfect' and a smile made the difference. A fraction of a point made the difference. This really only happens in the Olympics when the best of the best are competing.

I don't think there is anything wrong with that, but there are important differences in these sports.

Guess we can throw out basketball, baseball, soccer, softball, etc, etc that all use judgment by officials as part of the game. Lol.

To deny there is a measurable difference in performance in things like gymnastics, skating, etc is just not true. You don’t just give participation trophies and all scoring is just whimsical...
Tired argument, and a complete misrepresentation of what I said. I never indicated that there are no measurable differences in performance in those events. What a wild mischaracterization; I’d expect better from you.

Obviously officiants in any sport can unfairly influence an outcome. The difference being that those who are officiating events like basketball, baseball, et al are largely there to spot distances, make sure to that bodies, balls, pucks remain within the boundaries of play, keep time, make certain that basic rules are being obeyed, etc.. They are generally NOT there to grade flourish, style, technique, or how imaginative an athlete’s routine is.

The All Star NBA slam dunk competition is fun to watch, but literally NOBODY sees the results as especially important, or would rather regularly watch that event over actual basketball. And you don’t award extra points for a one-handed catch or for entertaining end zone celebrations in football. OU’s softball team didn’t win the WCWS by having the best smiles when they made catches, or the best form when they swung the bat.

If golf were based on style points neither Arnold Palmer nor Lee Trevino would have ever been allowed on tour, much less would have won dozens of championships and ended their careers as legends.

Clearly, the outcomes of competitive athletic exhibitions such as gymnastics and figure skating are largely performance-based. I never said anything different. And clearly the participants at the Olympic level are world-class athletes. I’m only saying that the addition of style points and reliance upon the subjective opinions of others potentially diminishes the legitimacy of outcomes vs sports that don’t using grading systems.

Well, I'm pretty sure Gymnastics and Figure Skating are usually the most watched Olympic sports in the summer and winter games, respectively.

College football is pretty popular, especially around here, and it's used a highly subjective method of deciding a champion for most its history and even now still uses an "expert panel" to decide who gets to be the teams to play for a championship. Actually, most college team sports use a committee voting system to select playoff teams. And that's on top of the many in-game subjective calls including "demeanor" fouls like taunting and excessive celebration.

The most popular sport in the world features some of the most hilarious displays of flopping as a feature. lol

I get what you are saying, but it really is hard to find a sport, especially a team sport, that is not affected by subjective rule and "selection committees" are a big part of college sports. There doesn't seem to be an obvious correlation, positive or negative, between subjective rule and popularity, either. Honestly, I wouldn't discount the possibility of controversy and political / nationalistic bias being a draw to a lot of people who watch Olympic sports like gymnastics and figure skating. People love the drama.

Any rumblings for when an announcement will come? I recall reading it would potentially come this month. Is that still the expectation?

Any rumblings for when an announcement will come? I recall reading it would potentially come this month. Is that still the expectation?

It's been stated as in the Fall.

Any rumblings for when an announcement will come? I recall reading it would potentially come this month. Is that still the expectation?

It was never said this month.

They will announce all venues by the end of the year and possibly as early as sometime this fall.

I believe you've got the RUMORED announcement date for the new Thunder stadium confused with the announcement for the 2028 olympics.

No doubt if this happens, the quality and consistency of OKC's mayors for the last 20 years (and arguably 35) has got to be a major reason why we would be entrusted with these events by Los Angeles. At the end of the day, the success of the whole Olympics falls at LA's feet, so it's incredible to see an international, Tier I city partner with us.

I hope Holt is the mayor in 2028 (doubt he runs for a third term, though). Him as our main representative would be great!

Why wouldn’t he run again? Him being mayor during this would be a huge accomplishment.

No doubt if this happens, the quality and consistency of OKC's mayors for the last 20 years (and arguably 35) has got to be a major reason why we would be entrusted with these events by Los Angeles. At the end of the day, the success of the whole Olympics falls at LA's feet, so it's incredible to see an international, Tier I city partner with us.

keep in mind that the LA Olympics are for all intents being privately run ..

Remember that Holt is in tight with former (and popular) L.A. Mayor Eric Garcetti who led the bid for LA28.

Garcetti was mayor up to 2021 when he resigned to become the ambassador to India.


In fact, Holt hosted Garcetti at the Boathouse District:

https://www.facebook.com/MayorDavidHolt/posts/hosting-los-angeles-mayor-eric-garcetti-and-his-think-tank-accelerator-for-ameri/1416873098465998/

keep in mind that the LA Olympics are for all intents being privately run ..

Be that as it may, the world will always see it is a success or failure of that particular city.

No doubt if this happens, the quality and consistency of OKC's mayors for the last 20 years (and arguably 35) has got to be a major reason why we would be entrusted with these events by Los Angeles. At the end of the day, the success of the whole Olympics falls at LA's feet, so it's incredible to see an international, Tier I city partner with us.

Not sure what if any impact mayors have on the decision, but Holt is good friends with the mayor of LA and is about to be president of the US Conference of Mayors.

EDIT: Sorry I missed Pete's post above.

Why wouldn’t he run again? Him being mayor during this would be a huge accomplishment.

Because it's a very difficult job? Because he wants to do something else? There are reasons why he wouldn't. I hope he gives it another go.

Why wouldn’t he run again? Him being mayor during this would be a huge accomplishment.

My biggest thing is he is now the dean of the OCU law school. That is, IMO, more demanding than his old job at Hall Capital.

Because it's a very difficult job? Because he wants to do something else? There are reasons why he wouldn't. I hope he gives it another go.

it doesn’t sound like he’s going to seek higher office (governor, etc) for the next election cycle so I hope he does one more term as well.

***deleted***

Was informed that a quote in the article I had posted and linked was incorrect.

No one affiliated with the Olympic process -- either in LA or OKC -- can or will talk about much of anything until there is an official announcement.

I still think the word will come down in the next few months.

So it would only be one event (canoe slalom) coming here? So maybe 3 or 4 days total? If that is the case, I'd hate for OKC to spend a ton in infrastructure for it. And I doubt developers will be rushing to build a bunch of hotels for a week total (most likely). Hopefully I misread that, and it is more than just 1 singular event.

I'm not saying the impact would be minimal, by any stretch, but for 1 event for 1 week, in an event that isn't a highly televised competition, the need to overspend isn't there (but that is likely why LA isn't wanting to build a venue for it).

So it would only be one event (canoe slalom) coming here? So maybe 3 or 4 days total? If that is the case, I'd hate for OKC to spend a ton in infrastructure for it. And I doubt developers will be rushing to build a bunch of hotels for a week total (most likely). Hopefully I misread that, and it is more than just 1 singular event.

I'm not saying the impact would be minimal, by any stretch, but for 1 event for 1 week, in an event that isn't a highly televised competition, the need to overspend isn't there (but that is likely why LA isn't wanting to build a venue for it).

6 events with multiple heats over a 9-10 day period; that's just for canoe slalom.

Other events, such as rowing, are still a possibility.

6 events with multiple heats over a 9-10 day period; that's just for canoe slalom.

Other events, such as rowing, are still a possibility.

Ok. I was mistaken. I appreciate the clarification.

The exposure OKC will receive hosting 2028 Olympics on the Riversport Rapids Whitewater Center ICF Canoe Slalom events, imagine the views from surrounding developments, Finish Finish Line, OKANA, FAM museum, new NBA arena and skyline will be on par with OK 89 Olympic Festival and any previous water sports events.

Don't look now but there will be a post that says this isn't that big of a deal and if it wasn't coming people would just spend their money elsewhere.

The exposure OKC will receive hosting 2028 Olympics on the Riversport Rapids Whitewater Center ICF Canoe Slalom events, imagine the views from surrounding developments, Finish Finish Line, OKANA, FAM museum, new NBA arena and skyline will be on par with OK 89 Olympic Festival and any previous water sports events.

As big as the 89 Olympic Festival was, this will be so much bigger and grander.

The whitewater facility being the most expensive part of equipment, I am not sure what major investment OKC will need to come up with.
It is at a prime location, very close to downtown.

Whatever we get, it is already awesome to be part, even small, of the Olympics.

Don't look now but there will be a post that says this isn't that big of a deal and if it wasn't coming people would just spend their money elsewhere.

18224

Don't look now but there will be a post that says this isn't that big of a deal and if it wasn't coming people would just spend their money elsewhere.

Nah, this is a genuine big deal and international draw that will bring in thousands of people who would otherwise never dream of setting foot in this city. No need to try to build strawmen here or make bad comparisons.

Anybody know anyting about this event? USA team? Traditional powers? How many in a canoe? Men and women events? Etc.

Anybody know anyting about this event? USA team? Traditional powers? How many in a canoe? Men and women events? Etc.

You are asking all the right questions.

Nah, this is a genuine big deal and international draw that will bring in thousands of people who would otherwise never dream of setting foot in this city. No need to try to build strawmen here or make bad comparisons.

Yet you continue to grasp at strawmen saying people who travel to OKC for Thunder games, Concerts, Events etc. (a decent amount of fans come from outside OKC metro for each game and concerts attract people from everywhere even if a majority is from OKC metro) would still spend their money in OKC regardless if the Thunder were here or not and if those concerts came or not.

Anybody know anyting about this event? USA team? Traditional powers? How many in a canoe? Men and women events? Etc.

https://americancanoe.org/competition/teams/olympic-paralympic/slalom/

Yet you continue to grasp at strawmen saying people who travel to OKC for Thunder games, Concerts, Events etc. (a decent amount of fans come from outside OKC metro for each game and concerts attract people from everywhere even if a majority is from OKC metro) would still spend their money in OKC regardless if the Thunder were here or not and if those concerts came or not.

I don’t think you understand what a strawman fallacy is. How many people travel here just for Thunder games? Meanwhile the number of people who travel here for the Olympics will be pretty easy to quantify, and it’s going to be in *at least* the tens of thousands. That’s immediate, quantifiable impact, all using facilities that we already have. That’s a deal I’d make six days a week and twice on Sunday, and is profoundly different than the Thunder situation. Let’s not bog down this thread of great news with irrelevant side conversations or passive aggressive jabs.

Edit: \/\/\/ where are you seeing that Omni data?

If the Omni Hotel is any indication, quite a few travel to see Thunder games.