^

That Devon naming money should come in handy.

This is maybe a naive question, but is it even plausible to add large scale shade structures over the stands? Maybe they’re not conducive to baseball/softball fields because you tend to see them on soccer stadiums. I ask because it seems like the only knock against OKC as the softball capital is extreme summer temperatures.

This is maybe a naive question, but is it even plausible to add large scale shade structures over the stands? Maybe they’re not conducive to baseball/softball fields because you tend to see them on soccer stadiums. I ask because it seems like the only knock against OKC as the softball capital is extreme summer temperatures.

Plausible is one thing, if you were willing to spend a ton of money it could be incorporated into a design. However it would be way easier to do in a new stadium. To do it in the existing stadium would be a mess. At this point would probably have to build that independent of the existing stadium. So need to move the field on the west of the stadium, there is also existing buildings around 75% of the stadium that would be in the way of piers for those, with the plausibly easiest part to work piers near stadium being the loading dock for the stadium.

It does not seem as much if it would be conductive or not to baseball/softball, it seems more related to European/American designs of stadiums kind of diverged a bit while there was more regionalism to the sports world than there is today. With soccer having more international crossover than many of the major outdoor stadium sports, and European teams tending to be among the most well funded soccer teams, that is where a lot of international teams would look to for what is state of the art.

There are some improvements that could be made that would benefit the stadium. Rebuild the portable outfield bleachers where you have seats with cup holders; design the outfield sections where the stands can be moved/adjusted
for men vs women's softball.

Eventually, IMO you want Devon Park to seat 15,000. In addressing the Oklahoma summer heat some kind of shade protection will be needed.

I'm wondering how temporary the stands at the rapids will be. And similarly to the discussion above, any plans for some sort of sun shading there. I dont think people would be sitting in the rapids stands for as long, but I could be wrong. That would be a LOT of sun for that event too. Even something simple like a tarp coverage would suffice if it's temporary.

Can't wait until we paint the water tower to say OKC28 and leave it like that for 40 years.

Making a lot of permanent changes that are necessitated by a one-time event isn't super prudent. Making changes that have long been needed, just sped up by the Olympics coming here is different.

There are plenty of things that can be temporary, when it comes to getting ready for the 2028 Olympics.

Can't wait until we paint the water tower to say OKC28 and leave it like that for 40 years.

I gotta tell you I loved the OK89 water tower, and wish they had put the logo back on when they painted it a couple years ago.

I could be wrong but I would assume there won't be any "OKC28" branding; not officially anyway. LA is still the hosting city, officially speaking.

I wouldn't mind more "OK/LA" branded stuff, though. I always dig that.

they could do an OK28 version, just include a small footnote of the LA28 logo imbedded.

Yes, we are helping LA but we should be able to promote OKC as co-host in some way.

they could do an OK28 version, just include a small footnote of the LA28 logo imbedded.

Yes, we are helping LA but we should be able to promote OKC as co-host in some way.

I suspect the LA Olympic committee will have strict guidelines about what will be allowed.

I'm wondering how temporary the stands at the rapids will be. And similarly to the discussion above, any plans for some sort of sun shading there. I dont think people would be sitting in the rapids stands for as long, but I could be wrong. That would be a LOT of sun for that event too. Even something simple like a tarp coverage would suffice if it's temporary.

That reminds me of when I went to the LA Olympics in 84. One of the events I attended was the swimming and diving which was held at an outdoor pool next to the LA Coliseum. They had temporary stands built next to the pool. I guarantee there was no shade provided and it was very warm.

I found this stuff in an old scrapbook.

I went to ice hockey and diving and then volunteered for a couple of days. Apart from Olympics years, Olympic Festivals were yearly and ran from 1978 until 1995.

The OCCC Aquatic Center was built in 1989 and served as the outdoor venue for all aquatic competitions during the festival. In 1991, the college enclosed the facility and in 2015 it was closed for good.

This was a huge thing in 1989 which was pretty much the nadir for OKC, which is why I left later that year. Man oh man, how far we have come.

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/olympics1989.jpg

Speaking of the old OCCC Aquatic Center, did they ever get around to converting that space to classrooms or is it just sitting there abandoned?

I watched some of the Kayak Cross competition today, where all 4 competitors go into the water at once then battle it out to be the first across the finish with fewest deductions (missed or hit gates). It's really fun to watch; people calling it 'Mario Kart in boats'.

This is how the course looks in Paris; fun to imagine for OKC:

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/olympics080524a.jpg

The Kayak Cross was a great addition. Way more fun than the single races.

The Kayak Cross was a great addition. Way more fun than the single races.

Its fun and will hopefully attract more viewers. Who doesn't love a car crash.

But as a paddler, the competition against the clock really shows off who is better paddler and can use the water and features to absolutely fly, not just muscle through. Kind of like long drive contests vs. an all around golfer.

Won't be everyone's cup of tea, and that's fine. Hopefully the additional eyes will convert to the traditional.

I watched some of the Kayak Cross competition today, where all 4 competitors go into the water at once then battle it out to be the first across the finish with fewest deductions (missed or hit gates). It's really fun to watch; people calling it 'Mario Kart in boats'.

This is how the course looks in Paris; fun to imagine for OKC:

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/olympics080524a.jpg

I really hope, for spectators' sakes, that we can build some facilities with shade or overhangs or something, otherwise it'll be brutal

I really hope, for spectators' sakes, that we can build some facilities with shade or overhangs or something, otherwise it'll be brutal

Especially if the stands are facing south, which is almost certainly going to be the case.

I was just outside for about 15 minutes and it's just unbearably hot, as it always is at the end of July and early August.

I really hope, for spectators' sakes, that we can build some facilities with shade or overhangs or something, otherwise it'll be brutal

Especially if the stands are facing south, which is almost certainly going to be the case.

I was just outside for about 15 minutes and it's just unbearably hot, as it always is at the end of July and early August.

The announcers have been complaining about the heat in Paris and it's only been in the mid-80s. They are in for a rude awakening in OKC.

Its fun and will hopefully attract more viewers. Who doesn't love a car crash.

But as a paddler, the competition against the clock really shows off who is better paddler and can use the water and features to absolutely fly, not just muscle through. Kind of like long drive contests vs. an all around golfer.

Won't be everyone's cup of tea, and that's fine. Hopefully the additional eyes will convert to the traditional.

For sure! The clock races just aren’t near as fun from a spectator perspective. Having both formats is great for the sport

Especially if the stands are facing south, which is almost certainly going to be the case.

I was just outside for about 15 minutes and it's just unbearably hot, as it always is at the end of July and early August.

We’re very fortunate that the humidity is unusually low right now. The drier heat the last few days has been much more tolerable and the mornings have been great. Though once it starts getting into 100+ territory, its miserable either way.

Imagine all those Europeans (kayaking is largely a European sport) sitting in the full 100-degree Oklahoma sun for 2-3 hours.

There is no scenario where the weather isn't absolutely scorching for the 2028 games in OKC.

Extensive shading structures, misters, and fans need to be built into the stands.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00043173.htm#:~:text=In%20Atlanta%2C%20the%20daily %20temperatures,physicians%20at%20medical%2Dassist ance%20sites.
From 1996 Atlanta Games:

The ACOG system monitors the approximately 100 medical-assistance sites at the venues (1). In Atlanta, the daily temperatures during July 6-23 ranged from 66 F to 95 F (19 C-35 C); in addition, an estimated 2.2 million persons are attending the games. During July 6-23, a total of 2912 spectators and staff were treated by physicians at medical-assistance sites. Of these, 372 (12.8%) persons were treated for heat-related conditions, including heat cramps/dehydration, heat syncope, and heatstroke; 10 persons were transported to hospitals for treatment.

The 2028 Games will be Fri, Jul 14, 2028 – Sun, Jul 30, 2028.

FWIW, it got up to 105 degrees at one point during the 1984 LA Games and 99 at one point in the 2004 Athens Games.

19077

For all we know, it could be a rainy July in 2028. In July 2023 Oklahoma County received 8 inches of rain compared with the average of 4.5.

Just from the posts you see about the conditions around Olympic events... I don't believe the Olympics really care how uncomfortable the fans and athletes are at the events. Most monies come from the TV rights anyways.

^

OKC is going to care if everyone who comes here complains profusely about the miserable conditions.

The whole reason for doing this is leave people with a positive impression.

We don’t need to worry about the weather. Out of our control. We have no idea if it will be sunny and 105 or rainy and 92. It’s going to be hot at the summer Olympics. It’s been hot, really hot,at most of them. I don’t think people coming from Europe have any illusions that OKC is San Diego. I think they will though appreciate central air conditioning.

I would assume/hope OKC provides at least some sort of shade to both the whitewater and softball stands. That and fans/misters like Dan mentioned would help.

Even if they do, it’s going to be very hot. It’s Oklahoma in July/August. People will complain about it. People on social media will complain about it. Articles will mention it.

A blue check mark will inevitably comment on it and why OKC was a bad choice or something and a lot on this site will begin spiraling. I’ve accepted this. OKC will need to do the best it can to make these events at least somewhat bearable.

Edit: I don’t know how I added a “Mid-Del” banner to my comment but I’ll leave it

I would guess there will be a lot of evening and night games, especially softball.

We should be back into La Niña after a couple years of El Niño which would mean a high temps and Dry conditions are likely (similar to this year). But as was mentioned last July was unusually wet, and there is a higher likelihood of getting tropical storms moving north from the Gulf.

Are we trying to predict the weather 4 years from now, when we struggle predicting 4 days in the future, at times?

^

OKC is going to care if everyone who comes here complains profusely about the miserable conditions.

The whole reason for doing this is leave people with a positive impression.

Amen. The Atlanta games were recalled for their terrible heat (before the bombing became the overshadowing aspect). The Tokyo games were blisteringly hot, though they didn't have to worry about attendance much since Covid got rid of fans. OKC really needs to make a good impression with these games and being proactive in taking steps to mitigate the impact of the weather will go a long way. Yes, it will likely be hot and humid (especially with 4 more years of climate change), but we can go out of our way to make it as bearable as possible.

Imagine all those Europeans (kayaking is largely a European sport) sitting in the full 100-degree Oklahoma sun for 2-3 hours.

There is no scenario where the weather isn't absolutely scorching for the 2028 games in OKC.

in fairness, we just came out of a two week period of well below average and in some cases record low temperatures so it is possible that it won’t be completely miserable, maybe even pleasant, if we get lucky but the odds aren’t great.

Shade structures may be a good investment at the softball complex, but the stands at the White River Rafting will be temporary. The most they will do is possibly hang some canvas awnings over the stands.

Shade structures may be a good investment at the softball complex, but the stands at the White River Rafting will be temporary. The most they will do is possibly hang some canvas awnings over the stands.

Upper deck is always blazing hot during the WCWS day games. Can't imagine how hot that would be for fans in August. Investment in shade would be well worth it for both events,

Upper deck is always blazing hot during the WCWS day games. Can't imagine how hot that would be for fans in August. Investment in shade would be well worth it for both events,

It is difficult enough and costly to add those type of structures in the initial design of stadium and are part of the core structural walls, if you are talking about something that actually overhands the seats and protects during day, verses some of the near vertical shades that really just kind of block setting sun for games starting around the time people get off work. Adding around an existing stadium that is getting into absurd engineering/cost.

At Whitewater Course: Most of that is probably going to be temporary, with some views showing the back of the stadium expanding into the recreation channel. Given how much stronger a cantilevered roof to handle Oklahoma wind is, might necessitate concreating a lot of heavy poles into the ground, where the stadium alone probably could just be setting on block. So if the back of the stadium is on the recreational channel that means will be putting a ton of polls in the channel, at best can be an obstacles for one or two summers, at worse that entire channel could be unavailable for years.

Shade structures may be a good investment at the softball complex, but the stands at the White River Rafting will be temporary. The most they will do is possibly hang some canvas awnings over the stands.

Yeah, I think this is right. I'd love to see shade awnings added to the softball stadium, but temporary awnings over the temporary white water stands. The former would be an investment, but long term, might be worth it,

We could just hand out paper fans with the "Imagine That" slogan on them. Would probably leave a nice impression for visitors.

Who needs shade? Too expensive.

I have been saying it for 2 years now they need sun blockers for the softball games. It would be well with the investment. Many stadiums have it and have no clue when the built the upper deck they didn't add them.

Will probably end up closing that street leading to Bar K, build temporary stands across it and in then more inside the center between the two courses. And yes, shade will be needed badly. Not worth the chance to "hope" for a random mild spell during peak summer.

https://www.canoeicf.com/news/oklahoma-city-announced-venue-2028-olympic-canoe-slalom-competition

https://www.canoeicf.com/sites/default/files/styles/top_image_1300/public/news-top-images/la28_rendering_whitewater_center_in_oklahoma_city_ ok_06_21_24_disclaimer_landscape.jpg

I don't know how much thought they put into this rendering and the caption literally says 'for illustration use only", but this would imply that only the middle channel will be used for competition. If that's true, they have to build some of the temporary stands over the outer channel.

I don't know how much thought they put into this rendering and the caption literally says 'for illustration use only", but this would imply that only the middle channel will be used for competition. If that's true, they have to build some of the temporary stands over the outer channel.

That’s the competition channel and it’s already set up so that the rec channel can be shut off to direct all water down the competition channel, so that would make sense. Wonder if it’s wide enough to support the cross events? The Paris one looked wider but that could’ve been the cameras playing tricks lol.

Oh I didn't realize only one channel would be used for competition. Then yes, they could build it over the north course.

There is also some discussion about reconfiguring the recreational channel for competition and using it instead.

There is also some discussion about reconfiguring the recreational channel for competition and using it instead.

Going on a trip in a few weeks with some of the riversport people. Will ask them about this.

There is also some discussion about reconfiguring the recreational channel for competition and using it instead.

Reconfiguring the blocks to shape the water should not be difficult, the system was designed for that to be done relatively easily.
What would be more difficult would be damming the current competition channel, since only the recreational channel had that feature designed in from the start.

Reconfiguring the blocks to shape the water should not be difficult, the system was designed for that to be done relatively easily.
What would be more difficult would be damming the current competition channel, since only the recreational channel had that feature designed in from the start.

I don't think you would have to dam any channel up. Just use both? I think the issue is more about spectator logistics and the best place to put stands.

Reconfiguring the blocks to shape the water should not be difficult, the system was designed for that to be done relatively easily.
What would be more difficult would be damming the current competition channel, since only the recreational channel had that feature designed in from the start.

True though if you’ve seen it, the mechanism looks fairly simple. Probably wouldn’t be too terribly difficult to shut the place down for a few days and replicate it.

I don't think you would have to dam any channel up. Just use both? I think the issue is more about spectator logistics and the best place to put stands.

I don’t know this for sure but I believe they have to close the gate to the rec channel and run all 6 pumps to get the water flow rate where it needs to be for the high level events in the competition channel. They can’t run both channels at the same time during competitions so they would need to add the option to close the competition channel if they decided to switch it up. And I they’re discussing using the rec channel because the extra width might be needed for the cross events…but it could be spectator related as well.

True though if you’ve seen it, the mechanism looks fairly simple. Probably wouldn’t be too terribly difficult to shut the place down for a few days and replicate it.

They would also have to add gates to the Wreck channel as it has none currently. That is the channel they have been running the cross races down though.
Pretty sure if they run 6 pumps and have the diversion dam completely open there is more than enough flow on the rec channel.

They would also have to add gates to the Wreck channel as it has none currently. That is the channel they have been running the cross races down though.
Pretty sure if they run 6 pumps and have the diversion dam completely open there is more than enough flow on the rec channel.

Wasn't the whole point of adding the diversion dam on the rec channel to create a combined-flow freestyle channel? Seems like an olympic level competition would've been their reasoning for creating that option. If not, then what is it for?

Wasn't the whole point of adding the diversion dam on the rec channel to create a combined-flow freestyle channel? Seems like an olympic level competition would've been their reasoning for creating that option. If not, then what is it for?

It seems like freestyle came up later. Originally most of the discussion around the dam was just for an option to push more volume down the competition channel during higher level events, when the recreation channel would not be in use anyway. This also played into why the competition channel is shorter than the recreation channel.

Actually getting the Olympic games brings more things into consideration: switching channels probably allows for more seating overall, plus a higher percentage of seating near the finish. Also shifting most of the seating north of entire course might allow using the street for much of base for temp seating, plausibly simplification of logistics of setup/takedown, and less impactful on normal operations before and after games.

Turning the recreation channel into the competition channel seems like the way to go. I'm sure damming up the current competition channel wouldn't be a big deal. Not sure if this would be necessary, but I suspect the current flow rate of the rec channel is lower because it takes a longer path? I don't know, where's a hydro engineer when you need one. :)

For aesthetics though, not draining one channel would be preferred.

OKC RIVERSPORT will host the 2026 ICF white waters world championship. The biggest event of the year for these sports, slalom and cross in kayak and canoe.
It will give us a better idea on what to expect for the Olympics.
Probably more events at the worlds than the Olympics but less crowd.

]It seems like freestyle came up later. Originally most of the discussion around the dam was just for an option to push more volume down the competition channel during higher level events, when the recreation channel would not be in use anyway. This also played into why the competition channel is shorter than the recreation channel.[/B]

Actually getting the Olympic games brings more things into consideration: switching channels probably allows for more seating overall, plus a higher percentage of seating near the finish. Also shifting most of the seating north of entire course might allow using the street for much of base for temp seating, plausibly simplification of logistics of setup/takedown, and less impactful on normal operations before and after games.

I think we’re pretty much saying the same thing. I always thought the point of the dam was to send water from all six pumps down the competition channel for high level competition.

I think we’re pretty much saying the same thing. I always thought the point of the dam was to send water from all six pumps down the competition channel for high level competition.

Ok, I though you was talking about freestyle kayaking, which different from the styles that actually use the full channel.

Turning the recreation channel into the competition channel seems like the way to go. I'm sure damming up the current competition channel wouldn't be a big deal. Not sure if this would be necessary, but I suspect the current flow rate of the rec channel is lower because it takes a longer path? I don't know, where's a hydro engineer when you need one. :)

For aesthetics though, not draining one channel would be preferred.

Longer floew path means shallower overall slope, thus lower energy gradient and average velocity. Probably why the cross-section of the rec. channel is bigger. So it can accomodate the same flow quantity at equal upstream head.

Especially if the stands are facing south, which is almost certainly going to be the case.

I was just outside for about 15 minutes and it's just unbearably hot, as it always is at the end of July and early August.

The announcers have been complaining about the heat in Paris and it's only been in the mid-80s. They are in for a rude awakening in OKC.

to that note, do you think the Olympics will schedule OKC games in the mornings and evenings - skipping the middle of the day (11am-7pm) as much as possible? I've noticed Paris have many beach volleyball games at night, OKC could/should do the same to avoid being the hottest city to ever host/co-host the olympics.

to that note, do you think the Olympics will schedule OKC games in the mornings and evenings - skipping the middle of the day (11am-7pm) as much as possible? I've noticed Paris have many beach volleyball games at night, OKC could/should do the same to avoid being the hottest city to ever host/co-host the olympics.

lots of stuff at all olympics world wide are scheduled with American TV in mind ..