Oklahoma 43rd best state to live in ? What are your thoughts on this ? To contrast, another survey says OKC is the 8th best run city …

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/utah

Oh Jesus Christ. Here we go.

Relax, not a flame. I’m a little shocked by the ranking and eager to hear feedback. I do realize surveys like this can be a little arbitrary in the metrics they weight.

I think anyone can make rankings fit what ever agenda they have going on.

True, this one seems to consistently rank OK near the bottom. Alaska #50. My son and daughter-in-law are moving there and couldn’t be happier about it.

When you look at what goes into the ranking it doesn’t seem that far off. We rank nearly last in every objective measure for health and education, and are strong economically by being cheap, not productive. Hard to argue. Most Oklahomans are okay with this though and aren’t willing to do what it takes to improve the whole society in OK.

Honestly, anecdotal but that seems about right on both fronts from my experience as an ex-pat who talks to people when I know they have recently been to Oklahoma. In that regard, everyone I tend to run into who has been through Oklahoma or at least can point to Oklahoma on the map has a fairly dim view of the state and typically lumps it in with Mississippi and Arkansas. Most of the gripes are weather, politics, and general stereotypes which may or not be accurate (every state does, it's not really anything to get worked up over). And of the same set of people who has traveled through Oklahoma City usually have a much better opinion of the city itself. Along the lines of: The Brickyard (sic -- usually requires a correction) District is very nice, the downtown is very cool, the people are extremely friendly, there was no traffic and surprisingly a lot of things to see and do, the Memorial was very well done, a lot of great local restaurants, etc.

Affordability is the new hip. And why should surveys like this weight the impressions of visitors ? People passing through may not like Okie politics, but most Okies do.

This right here is why we stay mired in backwardness on a state level. Just happy getting scraps and somebody saying how friendly we are.

By the way, uneducated and poor is not hip in anyone else’s eyes.

This right here is why we stay mired in backwardness on a state level. Just happy getting scraps and somebody saying how friendly we are.

By the way, uneducated and poor is not hip in anyone else’s eyes.

Yep

Affordability is the new hip. And why should surveys like this weight the impressions of visitors ? People passing through may not like Okie politics, but most Okies do.

People should quit blaming the information and blame the underlying data. OK is undereducated and poor. It has a huge percentage of unhealthy people who get substandard medical care. It isn’t the fact that now people know this that is the problem. Instead of feeling shame and be determined to do something about it, many Oklahomans are proud of it and want to blame the reporting of it for people being in this situation. SMH.

People should quit blaming the information and blame the underlying data. OK is undereducated and poor. It has a huge percentage of unhealthy people who get substandard medical care. It isn’t the fact that now people know this that is the problem. Instead of feeling shame and be determined to do something about it, many Oklahomans are proud of it and want to blame the reporting of it for people being in this situation. SMH.

Yep

Cool thread, OP

When you look at what goes into the ranking it doesn’t seem that far off. We rank nearly last in every objective measure for health and education, and are strong economically by being cheap, not productive. Hard to argue. Most Oklahomans are okay with this though and aren’t willing to do what it takes to improve the whole society in OK.

Word.

Any time there is any ranking of something this broad, our entire discussion should focus on the criteria used for the ranking. If we're not doing that then the discussion just devolves into people inserting their prior beliefs or feelings. What I mean is, it would be awesome if the original poster would say, "Oklahoma is ranked #43 in best state to live in" and that seems to be primarily caused by [enter explanation of criteria here].

Sorry, these types of rankings are my pet peeve because our discussions take them as fact when they are often either (a) very flawed or (b) valuing very specific criteria that is worthy of debate.

This is all aside from the fact that states are incredibly diverse places where people have incredibly different experiences based on a lot of factors from geography to identity markers to income levels. A state can be great to live in for some people and not others. These broad rankings don't always make that clear.

Oklahoma 43rd best state to live in ? What are your thoughts on this ? To contrast, another survey says OKC is the 8th best run city …

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/utah

And yet Oklahoma is usually in the mid level rankings when it comes to population growth. People move from other states that already have the good education and healthcare because they don't want to pay for it and all of the sudden they become conservatives and help the existing conservatives stay in power. Its a feedback loop that the lower ranked states the bottom go through.

Is Oklahoma a bad state to live in because you have to live with dumb, fat people ? What if you’re fairly smart and your blood sugar’s not out of whack ? Wouldn’t the fairly robust economy and the affordability make for one of the best states ?

Is Oklahoma a bad state to live in because you have to live with dumb, fat people ? What if you’re fairly smart and your blood sugar’s not out of whack ? Wouldn’t the fairly robust economy and the affordability make for one of the best states ?

Yes, but life is how you make it. If you haven't found a decent paying job in Oklahoma by the time you're in your mid 30's, then it's time to consider moving to another state to find better paying job opportunities.

And yet Oklahoma is usually in the mid level rankings when it comes to population growth.

Between 2010 and 2020 (the last two censuses) the US grew 7.4% and Oklahoma only grew 5.5%.

A lot of the 'growth' we see in OKC and Tulsa is merely rural people moving into the metropolitan areas and one area of cities being abandoned for the outskirts.

Any time there is any ranking of something this broad, our entire discussion should focus on the criteria used for the ranking. If we're not doing that then the discussion just devolves into people inserting their prior beliefs or feelings. What I mean is, it would be awesome if the original poster would say, "Oklahoma is ranked #43 in best state to live in" and that seems to be primarily caused by [enter explanation of criteria here].

Sorry, these types of rankings are my pet peeve because our discussions take them as fact when they are often either (a) very flawed or (b) valuing very specific criteria that is worthy of debate.

This is all aside from the fact that states are incredibly diverse places where people have incredibly different experiences based on a lot of factors from geography to identity markers to income levels. A state can be great to live in for some people and not others. These broad rankings don't always make that clear.

That’s what I said. Many Oklahomans are okay with our poor performance and in fact are proud of our poorly educated population and extreme politics. They point to exceptions rather than the ordinary results. Their head is in the sand so nothing is done. Be happy with poor pay, poor education, and poor health prospects for the majority of the state.

That’s what I said. Many Oklahomans are okay with our poor performance and in fact are proud of our poorly educated population and extreme politics. They point to exceptions rather than the ordinary results. Their head is in the sand so nothing is done. Be happy with poor pay, poor education, and poor health prospects for the majority of the state.

Rover!!!

*yawns*

*yawns*

This state is circling the drain. The only thing keeping it from being sucked into the sewer is the OKC metro, and, to a much lesser extent, Tulsa (kind of but not really with Broken Arrow). But, current leadership is doing everything it possibly can to make Oklahoma as unwelcome, inhospitable, and unlivable of a smoldering hellhole as possible.

I know several people in the medical profession, the arts, and other high-income professions who are fleeing the state in droves right now. Honestly, at my advanced age, I'm tired of arguing with idiots and would really enjoy living somewhere else, where state leadership isn't constantly trolling me and insulting my intelligence and actively working to make my life worse.

This state is circling the drain. The only thing keeping it from being sucked into the sewer is the OKC metro, and, to a much lesser extent, Tulsa (kind of but not really with Broken Arrow). But, current leadership is doing everything it possibly can to make Oklahoma as unwelcome, inhospitable, and unlivable of a smoldering hellhole as possible.

I know several people in the medical profession, the arts, and other high-income professions who are fleeing the state in droves right now. Honestly, at my advanced age, I'm tired of arguing with idiots and would really enjoy living somewhere else, where state leadership isn't constantly trolling me and insulting my intelligence and actively working to make my life worse.

lol ok

This state is circling the drain. The only thing keeping it from being sucked into the sewer is the OKC metro, and, to a much lesser extent, Tulsa (kind of but not really with Broken Arrow). But, current leadership is doing everything it possibly can to make Oklahoma as unwelcome, inhospitable, and unlivable of a smoldering hellhole as possible.

I know several people in the medical profession, the arts, and other high-income professions who are fleeing the state in droves right now. Honestly, at my advanced age, I'm tired of arguing with idiots and would really enjoy living somewhere else, where state leadership isn't constantly trolling me and insulting my intelligence and actively working to make my life worse.

You may not like the state-level politics, but “the state circling the drain” is just not borne out by census data, bls data, etc.

You may not like the state-level politics, but “the state circling the drain” is just not borne out by census data, bls data, etc.

I don't know what you're talking about. Oklahoma ranks in the bottom ten in multiple quality of life factors. It is one of the worst states for women, as an example. Maybe folks here are so used to being in the bottom they don't see the problem.

But, to challenge what you're saying about demographics, Oklahoma is not growing outside of the two metro areas, with OKC leading the way. Numerous rural counties are losing population.

I don't know what you're talking about. Oklahoma ranks in the bottom ten in multiple quality of life factors. It is one of the worst states for women, as an example. Maybe folks here are so used to being in the bottom they don't see the problem.

But, to challenge what you're saying about demographics, Oklahoma is not growing outside of the two metro areas, with OKC leading the way. Numerous rural counties are losing population.

This is true in practically every state.

After living in South Central Florida and DFW for a total of 24 years, I find my home State of Oklahoma is "circling the drain". The rate it is going, Oklahoma could very well become the next Mississippi.

Oklahoma was in the top ten for net domestic migration last year, so some of you need to quit reaching:

https://thehill.com/changing-america/sustainability/infrastructure/3839747-these-are-the-states-americans-are-moving-to/.

https://www.nar.realtor/blogs/economists-outlook/where-people-moved-in-2022

Also, OKC gained over 100,000 residents in the last decade.

Oklahoma was in the top ten for net domestic migration last year, so some of you need to quit reaching:

https://thehill.com/changing-america/sustainability/infrastructure/3839747-these-are-the-states-americans-are-moving-to/.

https://www.nar.realtor/blogs/economists-outlook/where-people-moved-in-2022

Also, OKC gained over 100,000 residents in the last decade.

^^
+1

This state is circling the drain. The only thing keeping it from being sucked into the sewer is the OKC metro, and, to a much lesser extent, Tulsa (kind of but not really with Broken Arrow). But, current leadership is doing everything it possibly can to make Oklahoma as unwelcome, inhospitable, and unlivable of a smoldering hellhole as possible.

I know several people in the medical profession, the arts, and other high-income professions who are fleeing the state in droves right now. Honestly, at my advanced age, I'm tired of arguing with idiots and would really enjoy living somewhere else, where state leadership isn't constantly trolling me and insulting my intelligence and actively working to make my life worse.

Age comment aside, this is how I feel as well. It's honestly depressing. I'm nearly 40, I've lived in Oklahoma City for 3/4 of my life and met quite a few truly lovely people here. But I've started looking at options for someplace else to go. I'm tired of the politics of this state, the me-vs-them mentality of many lawmakers (ones that keep getting reelected too!), and how hostile things have become here for people I love and care about. Oklahoma will always be home but I want to live somewhere that actually feels welcoming for a change, somewhere where I feel like I actually have a voice in government. And I'm far from alone in that.

Age comment aside, this is how I feel as well. It's honestly depressing. I'm nearly 40, I've lived in Oklahoma City for 3/4 of my life and met quite a few truly lovely people here. But I've started looking at options for someplace else to go. I'm tired of the politics of this state, the me-vs-them mentality of many lawmakers (ones that keep getting reelected too!), and how hostile things have become here for people I love and care about. Oklahoma will always be home but I want to live somewhere that actually feels welcoming for a change, somewhere where I feel like I actually have a voice in government. And I'm far from alone in that.

I wonder how welcome a conservative would feel in Portland or Seattle. I agree, as a liberal in Oklahoma, it sucks. But if you are a conservative, being in one of those liberal cities will feel the exact same. So if you're hyper-liberal like some on here, then a liberal bastion may be for you.

Most people who vacillate don't really engage in politics, and that is way down there list for a deciding factor to move to or from a state. The main reason why most people move is for jobs, cost of living, education, & quality of life in that order. Not because they don't like or like the governor or legislature.

Texas government and politics are just as bad or if not worse than Oklahoma. But yet they are one of the fastest growing states in the nation. I have friends in Texas who say they can't stand Governor Abbott, and some of the state laws, but yet people still like living there. Governor Abbott receives more backlash from Texans, than Stitt does from Oklahomans.

Most people who vacillate don't really engage in politics, and that is way down there list for a deciding factor to move to or from a state. The main reason why most people move is for jobs, cost of living, education, & quality of life in that order. Not because they don't like or like the governor or legislature.

This is beautifully said, G.Walker!

This is all part of the "great sorting out" of America, where like-minded people (culturally as much as politically like-minded) gravitate together. It's been this way within cities (there are "liberal" neighborhoods and "conservative" neighborhoods) for some time. Now it's spreading to whole metro areas and whole states. It's corrosive because the more it happens, the more radicalized the cities/states themselves get.

Oddly, Oklahoma City proper, taken as a whole, actually represents one of the more balanced major cities in this country. I project that we may see an "Austin-lite" situation in coming decades. My friends down there call Austin "the blueberry in the tomato soup." (I say "lite" because OKC will never get as liberal as Austin, but I do see it breaching the 50/50 status pretty soon.)

People should quit blaming the information and blame the underlying data. OK is undereducated and poor. It has a huge percentage of unhealthy people who get substandard medical care. It isn’t the fact that now people know this that is the problem. Instead of feeling shame and be determined to do something about it, many Oklahomans are proud of it and want to blame the reporting of it for people being in this situation. SMH.

Once again, life is how you make it. I suspect one reason Oklahoma is undereducated and poor is because too many Oklahomans grow up with the lack of confidence, they can do better than that, thus, explaining why Oklahoma ranks in the 40s in so many ways when it comes to the standard of living. I also suspect a good number of Oklahomans have successfully sought higher paying jobs, knowing if they don't try, they will never know, if they can have a much higher paying job.

Sorry, meant to follow up, but life intervened …

These are the top 10 states that people are moving to according to The National Association of Realtors.
Investors use these figures to gauge where and how they will invest their holdings and where to grow their businesses.
10. Oklahoma
9. Alabama
8. Idaho
7. Arizona
6. Georgia
5. Tennessee
4. South Carolina
3. North Carolina
2. Texas
1. Florida

We know that the US News survey was heavily weighted towards health and education. At last check, OK had the highest, by far, number of Native Americans. And for whatever reason, Native Americans suffer more than any other ethnic group in these two areas. Not just an Oklahoma thing.

We know that the US News survey was heavily weighted towards health and education. At last check, OK had the highest, by far, number of Native Americans. And for whatever reason, Native Americans suffer more than any other ethnic group in these two areas. Not just an Oklahoma thing.
Go read the OKC grades for high schools in OK and quit blaming a particular race for Oklahoma’s poor funding, administration and support of education.

This is all part of the "great sorting out" of America, where like-minded people (culturally as much as politically like-minded) gravitate together. It's been this way within cities (there are "liberal" neighborhoods and "conservative" neighborhoods) for some time. Now it's spreading to whole metro areas and whole states. It's corrosive because the more it happens, the more radicalized the cities/states themselves get.

Oddly, Oklahoma City proper, taken as a whole, actually represents one of the more balanced major cities in this country. I project that we may see an "Austin-lite" situation in coming decades. My friends down there call Austin "the blueberry in the tomato soup." (I say "lite" because OKC will never get as liberal as Austin, but I do see it breaching the 50/50 status pretty soon.)
Why do people here think education and health are political issues? Do conservatives want people to stay uneducated, uninformed, and at risk of dying early or having debilitating health problems that could be avoided?

Not blaming an ethnic group. Just hinting at a logical explanation in a country in which California kids are sucking at math and reading.

Why do people here think education and health are political issues? Do conservatives want people to stay uneducated, uninformed, and at risk of dying early or having debilitating health problems that could be avoided?

I actually think health and education fall under the "cultural" rather than the "political." It's not that conservatives "want" people to stay uneducated, uninformed and unhealthy. But they are more likely to say those are individual choices and society at large should butt out. "Just let me eat my extra-large value meal from fast food drive thru in peace." Or "I don't NEED to go to college. You can make $50K a year in a call center and that's good enough to get by in Oklahoma." These attitudes are not necessarily political. They are cultural.

Are Native Americans unhealthy from eating extra-large value meals from fast food drive-ins and telling other people to bugger off about it ?

Are Native Americans unhealthy from eating extra-large value meals from fast food drive-ins and telling other people to bugger off about it ?

I'm not sure if that was directed at me but I have never said one thing about Native Americans.

I'm not sure if that was directed at me but I have never said one thing about Native Americans.

It was directed to your caricature of the unhealthy person. That aside from my suggestion that the poor health outcomes of Native Americans is bound to impact on health rankings in the state in which they are most abundant.

It was directed to your caricature of the unhealthy person. That aside from my suggestion that the poor health outcomes of Native Americans is bound to impact on health rankings in the state in which they are most abundant.

I suppose I understand your point, but in my experience, anybody from any ethnic or socioeconomic group can make unhealthy choices. And people generally have the agency to choose to make healthy choices as well. There are issues of food deserts in low-income neighborhoods and that is a correlation that can often be made.

Getting back to the topic of the "great sorting" (which is my little subtopic in this larger thread) though. Most people tend to replicate the behaviors of those they associate with. If you have ten friends that run marathons, and you are around them and their habits all the time, you're more likely to be healthy. If all of your friends are 50-pounds overweight and your social experiences involve huge dinners, then there you go. You can extrapolate that to issues of education (if all your friends or most of your neighborhood strives for higher education, you are more likely to)

Where it evolves into a political discussion is when people's political preferences become so much the topic of conversation and lifestyle that that becomes one of those factors like heath and education.

I suppose I understand your point, but in my experience, anybody from any ethnic or socioeconomic group can make unhealthy choices. And people generally have the agency to choose to make healthy choices as well. There are issues of food deserts in low-income neighborhoods and that is a correlation that can often be made.

Getting back to the topic of the "great sorting" (which is my little subtopic in this larger thread) though. Most people tend to replicate the behaviors of those they associate with. If you have ten friends that run marathons, and you are around them and their habits all the time, you're more likely to be healthy. If all of your friends are 50-pounds overweight and your social experiences involve huge dinners, then there you go. You can extrapolate that to issues of education (if all your friends or most of your neighborhood strives for higher education, you are more likely to)

Where it evolves into a political discussion is when people's political preferences become so much the topic of conversation and lifestyle that that becomes one of those factors like heath and education.

I’m doing my part to steer the discussion away from the two political, neither of which I see as brimming with solutions.

Aside: I’m a former fitness trainer, former because I lost my faith in a clear correlation between diet and health.

I actually think health and education fall under the "cultural" rather than the "political." It's not that conservatives "want" people to stay uneducated, uninformed and unhealthy. But they are more likely to say those are individual choices and society at large should butt out. "Just let me eat my extra-large value meal from fast food drive thru in peace." Or "I don't NEED to go to college. You can make $50K a year in a call center and that's good enough to get by in Oklahoma." These attitudes are not necessarily political. They are cultural.

Right. The state of Okie culture in regard to education and health show where it's at from the rejection by voters of a penny rise in state sales tax for education and just barely passed expanded Medicaid. Rural vs urban culture figures in.

Go read the OKC grades for high schools in OK and quit blaming a particular race for Oklahoma’s poor funding, administration and support of education.

the most liberal school board and district in the state has the worst schools .. .shocking i tell you

the most liberal school board and district in the state has the worst schools .. .shocking i tell you
What criteria do you use in determining how "liberal" a given school board is and how do you use that criteria in applying it to the hundreds of school boards across the state.
Conversly what is the most "conservative" school district and how does their academic standing compare?

the most liberal school board and district in the state has the worst schools .. .shocking i tell you
Quit trying to make this a political issue and a wedge issue. This is an Oklahoma cultural issue. Educating and caring shouldn't be along party lines.

What criteria do you use in determining how "liberal" a given school board is and how do you use that criteria in applying it to the hundreds of school boards across the state.
Conversly what is the most "conservative" school district and how does their academic standing compare?

Good point. Has this poster cross checked the voting records against the assigned public school district or just used tired caricatures? Are school boards across the state given ratings for liberal vs conservative biases. Is he saying school boards are more beholding to influential outsiders than the students? What exactly is the point to be put forth? Liberals are stupid and conservatives are smart? I guess that's why Oklahoma, Arkansas, Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama all have such outstanding schools and systems.

the most liberal school board and district in the state has the worst schools .. .shocking i tell you

This is extremely well put, Boulder. +1

This is extremely well put, Boulder. +1

Would you like to add to BS’s statement or tell us how that claim is supported in reality? Anything constructive at all?

Would you like to add to BS’s statement or tell us how that claim is supported in reality? Anything constructive at all?

You sound really upset, tbh

Is that fair to say?

You sound really upset, tbh

Is that fair to say?
I think you’re the one who’s upset. 90 percent of BS posts are just short worded meaningless crap who always conveniently ignores replies that provide irrefutable evidence they are wrong.

Don’t get me wrong I actually like BS but at the same time he annoys the crap out of me even though he is knowledgeable on freeway projects and supports them. But in reality posts like the one he just made are malarkey.

This new report says it all:

Sooner State Resurgence: The moveBuddha 2023 Oklahoma Migration Report

https://www.movebuddha.com/blog/oklahoma-migration-report/

I think you’re the one who’s upset. 90 percent of BS posts are just short worded meaningless crap who always conveniently ignores replies that provide irrefutable evidence they are wrong.

Don’t get me wrong I actually like BS but at the same time he annoys the crap out of me even though he is knowledgeable on freeway projects and supports them. But in reality posts like the one he just made are malarkey.

stating facts bothers some people ..

This new report says it all:

Sooner State Resurgence: The moveBuddha 2023 Oklahoma Migration Report

https://www.movebuddha.com/blog/oklahoma-migration-report/
Lol. No, it doesn’t. Like reading a page and thinking you know the book. Based heavily on internet searches and a few ratios without any contextual evidence or underlying fact analysis. Very weak.