United drew down a bunch of capacity (as did all airlines) during COVID. The network that emerged is not the same network that existed in 2019.

SFO has not recovered transpacific demand, especially from the heartland. There are larger market forces at work that aren’t necessarily to do with OKC.
EWR strategy has shifted to O&D large market. The minimum aircraft size United ultimately wants to rely on out of EWR is a 737-800. No more RJ’s there in the long term. That is different to the pre-2019 strategy of using it as a catch-all to New York and beyond. That Continental strategy of small gauge international feed that survived the merger limped along until COVID. CO did not have ORD or IAD for transatlantic connection options. They relied on EWR to make that work. Now that UA has shifted to O&D focus at EWR they want to minimize connections and push them through ORD and IAD if at all possible.
IAD: this should have come back by now but I fear UA has waited too long in some of these markets as AA has beefed up its presence at DCA in many markets. This combined with crew resources being thin means some of these longer stage minimum margin markets are a tough sell at HQ.

SFO, EWR, and IAD all use around 8 hours or more of aircraft and crew time. That is basically an entire crew day for a round trip, and half of an airplane’s daily hours. In an environment where aircraft and the crews to operate them are at a high premium, it’s going to be a while before UA would want to expend those much resources for a route that right now aren’t money printers.

The longer the route the better the economics need to be to make up for aircraft time, crew time, and more fuel.

no one with an understanding of market forces is arguing against your thoughts catch. that is fair and likely true.

however, MY argument is OKC had services that we no longer do: OKC-LAX, OKC-SFO, OKC-EWR, OKC-IAD and better OKC-ORD service on United alone. What is the cause for those routes to not be restored? What is the cause for United to under-serve OKC with equipment while overcharging compared to competitor routes?

THESE are the legitimate questions that IMO can't quite be explained by your great explanation, since OKC had those services before, is a much larger city/metro than before, recently expanded its airport capacity, has a higher GDP and business community than before, is growing in population and has gained corporate offices, suffers from the same hybrid workplace as other markets (esp nearby), on and on. Again, OKC had these routes with less, and NO incentives were given.

I also as the same about Delta (OKC-DTW not restored, OKC-MSP downgraded, no OKC-SEA despite it being the West gateway - although Alaska might have something to do with that), American not restoring PHL (although they might). OKC has captured other routes (OKC-SAT, OKC-AUS) come to mind but I still don't get why OKC doesn't have at least ONE non-stop flight to every HUB for the majors like it did just a few years ago. We've heard everything from Pilot shortage to lack of equipment to market profitability to value proposition to the loss of a great flight operations director; all of that COULD be true but I think the flight director either previously surely pulled above his weight or the current is surely underqualified. That is the argument I'm sure some are making and I believe it is legitimate.

If people are saying they will drive to DFW or wherever because the flight option to HUB CITIES is there/cheaper then the market is there/speaking yet being ignored. Question is why.

I would guess that we no longer have those services because they were attempted and were not economic.

Also we definitely have an LAX flight becuase I took it last week.

I would guess that we no longer have those services because they were attempted and were not economic.

Also we definitely have an LAX flight becuase I took it last week.

I think he meant on United, which we did have to LAX, along with Allegiant at one point.

Why isn't the city of okc and the airport director doing anything about this?

https://thepointsguy.com/news/united-newark-schedule-limited/

Why isn't the city of okc and the airport director doing anything about this?

https://thepointsguy.com/news/united-newark-schedule-limited/

The airport director should try and persuade United into shifting its transatlantic hub to OKC, since we have plenty of space to build out a terminal.

Why isn't the city of okc and the airport director doing anything about this?

https://thepointsguy.com/news/united-newark-schedule-limited/

Awe, you're taking a swipe at me, for no reason.

The airport director should try and persuade United into shifting its transatlantic hub to OKC, since we have plenty of space to build out a terminal.

Try? Persuade? What kind of loser's mentality is that? Why can't our Supreme Airport Director just force Kirby to do it?

Try? Persuade? What kind of loser's mentality is that? Why can't our Supreme Airport Director just force Kirby to do it?

If he refuses have the Grand Marshall of the Supreme Court arrest him.

Awe, you're taking a swipe at me, for no reason.

Not a swipe at you.
Just wanted to post some nonsense that ignores context and the mechanics of the aviation business entirely.

But yes, you do that as well.

OKC-BNA is back as a Saturday-only non-stop on Southwest. Not ideal for weekend trips, especially the late afternoon departure. Hopefully this goes to daily soon - BNA is a good connecting airport (much better than STL)

Two common themes for our airport service apologists-- the free market won't support it, and we are too close to DFW.

Our load factors and fares are excellent (for airlines), especially Southwest and American. The demand for more flights is there on the carriers that provide a substantial product in OKC. And being close to DFW does little to put a lid on flights. Did it stop AUS from growing? They are 3 hours from DFW ....and.... IAH, both massive hubs. Does that stop SAT from having good airline service? Using DFW as the excuse is ridiculous because it cancels out itself. American might be the best airline in OKC, certainly the one with the most growth recently, and they're the one with the hub in OKC. DFW isn't funneling people to drive to DFW, they're flying them to DFW, CHL, MIA, DCA, etc.

"Substantial product" is a vague and totally subjective term. And to compare OKC to AUS in terms of travel market demographics is absurd.

"Substantial product" is a vague and totally subjective term. And to compare OKC to AUS in terms of travel market demographics is absurd.I was comparing them because of their distance to TWO majors hubs. People think it's hard for OKC to grow because of our proximity to DFW, well AUS has that times two. But I'm totally comfortable comparing AUS to OKC where they were 20 years ago. And an airport should always have a long range plan (otherwise they end up with the incoherent mess that is IAH or ORD-- I hope those weren't master planned that way!). I hope OKC has a long range plan looking out that far. OKC had 3.94MM passengers in 2022. We had 4.42MM passengers in 2019. We were down 11%, but the US a whole was down only 8% from 2019. I think this is from the depressed offerings from United and Delta as American and Southwest are generally doing their part in the market. But that's another story. If we grew at an annualized rate of 3.5% for the next 20 years from our currently depressed figure we'd be over 8MM passengers in 20 years. In 2015 we had 3.72MM passengers. We are only 5% higher than our 2015 figure. But from 2015 to 2019 we grew at an annualized rate of 16%. So something much higher than 3.5% is doable. If we grew at 5% we would have 11MM passengers a year in 20 years.

Looks like nonstop to Miami on AA is year-round now, no longer seasonal.

https://www.travelagentcentral.com/transportation/american-airlines-announces-new-routes-from-miami

I was looking at flights to Miami in December and couldn't find any nonstops. After coming back and re-reading this article I saw that it was in 2021. Bummer.

OKC will need to become more competitive in gaining direct flights if it would aggressively seek out major companies that would have a global presence and business travelers. If it does not do this, it just is not economically feasible for airlines to have a market and make money in OKC. Having DFW as a major hub airport brings challenges to OKC, however this should not make OKC give up and not put forth an effort for better flights, specifically "direct" flights!

OKC will need to become more competitive in gaining direct flights if it would aggressively seek out major companies that would have a global presence and business travelers. If it does not do this, it just is not economically feasible for airlines to have a market and make money in OKC. Having DFW as a major hub airport brings challenges to OKC, however this should not make OKC give up and not put forth an effort for better flights, specifically "direct" flights!

Be careful with telling them they need to try harder.

Nonstop, people, nonstop---not direct, nonstop! Sorry, getting this accurate is just a pet peeve of mine on this thread. Directs are fine, but what we really want are nonstops!

Nonstop, people, nonstop---not direct, nonstop! Sorry, getting this accurate is just a pet peeve of mine on this thread. Directs are fine, but what we really want are nonstops!

Those are a pipe dream. OKC to Asheville or Richmond is never going to happen. But OKC needs more flights and more mainline to hubs. Those can happen. Flights to Detroit, Boston, Portland, Newark, SFO, need to happen.

Those are a pipe dream. OKC to Asheville or Richmond is never going to happen. But OKC needs more flights and more mainline to hubs. Those can happen. Flights to Detroit, Boston, Portland, Newark, SFO, need to happen.

I bet our next two route additions are SFO (maybe Alaska code-shared with American on a E175?) and Boston. Demand certainly seems to be there for SF based on 2022 PDEW numbers

Those are a pipe dream. OKC to Asheville or Richmond is never going to happen. But OKC needs more flights and more mainline to hubs. Those can happen. Flights to Detroit, Boston, Portland, Newark, SFO, need to happen.

Totally! Yes, just need more nonstops to major cities and hubs. The ones you listed are prime targets.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/american-airlines-new-miami-routes/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR1O9Bd1jEDYQmARMqiXVmP_pceDkxTLTXljskWHs HCJfmKOb8EtmzJEejY

Aside from the new routes, American will also increase frequencies on existing domestic and international flights

16 routes with frequency increases
Destination Service notes Flights operate
Anguilla Increase to two daily flights Dec. 20 – Jan. 7
Barranquilla Increase to two daily flights Dec. 20 – Jan. 7
Bridgetown Increase to three daily flights Dec. 20 – Jan. 7
Cancun Increase to six daily flights Dec. 20 – Jan. 7
Cartagena Increase to three daily flights Dec. 5 – April 3
Denver Increase to three daily flights Dec. 20 – Apr. 3
Liberia Increase to three daily flights Dec. 20 – Jan. 7
Milwaukee Increase to daily service Dec. 20 – Apr. 3
Nashville Increase to five daily flights Dec. 20 – Jan. 7
Oklahoma City Increase to daily service Dec. 20 – Apr. 3
San Antonio Increase to two daily flights Dec. 20 – Jan. 7
San Diego Increase to two daily flights Dec. 20 – Jan. 7
San Jose Increase to four daily flights Dec. 20 – Jan. 7
Seattle Increase to two daily flights Dec. 20 – Jan. 7
St. Maarten Increase to three daily flights Dec. 20 – Jan. 7
Tortola Increase to three peak-day flights Saturdays; Dec. 20 – Jan. 7

https://thepointsguy.com/news/american-airlines-new-miami-routes/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR1O9Bd1jEDYQmARMqiXVmP_pceDkxTLTXljskWHs HCJfmKOb8EtmzJEejY

Aside from the new routes, American will also increase frequencies on existing domestic and international flights


Oklahoma City Increase to daily service Dec. 20 – Apr. 3Yay! Been holding off booking in hopes this would happen.

AA is just the absolute best.

^This is service to MIA they're talking about--in case you didn't want to click the link

Great news. Miami is one of those airports (from OKC and region) that is a transformative route. It opens up a lot of connection potential to places that are currently 2 stops away. Turning these into 1 stop itineraries saves time and ultimately can induce demand that otherwise would have opted for a different, closer destination or not flown at all.

Bet AA tries out OKC-BOS next (which DL will probably copy)

MIA daily non-stop, even if just during the winter months, is a huge pick up for OKC. That makes a long weekend trip doable and as mentioned opens up tons of connections across Latin America, the Caribbean and Europe. Too bad MIA is such a dump and customs is a huge pain when returning to the U.S.; fortunately there are $5B in improvements slated to happen there over the next decade.

Plus if it performs well over winter, there's a decent chance it stays daily.

AA Miami flight leaves 6am. I haven't done an early flight in years.

What time would one need to arrive at the airport to get through security and to the gate? 5 am at the latest?

Are ubers or lyft reliable at that time?

Was just looking into flights to Tampa in the fall and it looks like we are getting a daily nonstop to MCO starting October 5 on SW.

AA Miami flight leaves 6am. I haven't done an early flight in years.

What time would one need to arrive at the airport to get through security and to the gate? 5 am at the latest?

Are ubers or lyft reliable at that time?

5 am should be fine except during Christmas or Thanksgiving, add 15 min. You could prob do 5:15 if you have TSA Precheck

5 am should be fine except during Christmas or Thanksgiving, add 15 min. You could prob do 5:15 if you have TSA Precheck

45 minutes would be living dangerously no matter how busy the airport is unless you aren't checking luggage.

https://www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/check-in-and-arrival.jsp#:~:text=Check%2Din%20times&text=To%20check%2Din%20and%20check,Within%20the%20 U.S.%20%E2%80%93%2045%20minutes

"To check-in and check bags at the airport, you must be there a certain amount of time before scheduled departure:

Within the U.S. – 45 minutes
To or from destinations outside the U.S. – 60 minutes"

I have heard of many cases of people being denied travel for that exact reason.

I try to arrive no less than 1 hour prior to departure when I fly but if I were running behind I would still feel fairly safe at WRWA checking in my bag and making it through security 45 minutes before departure unless it were around a holiday or I was traveling heavy. I could be underestimating that though depending on the airline; Delta usually doesn’t get too busy so the check-in process is pretty quick.

Flying out of LAX last month, there was a lady in the bag drop line who had a flight to New York that was departing around 40 minutes later, so I was for sure she would get turned back at the counter but I saw her about 20 minutes later quickly approaching her gate while boarding was still going on. That’s certainly a “mess around and find out” situation with a happy ending and I hope she doesn’t normally travel like that, but it’s often doable as long as it’s not during a peak travel time.

5 am should be fine except during Christmas or Thanksgiving, add 15 min. You could prob do 5:15 if you have TSA Precheck

Having flown out on the early flight a few times this year, add more time than that. Lines have been pretty long since there's quite a few flights out on all airlines early in the morning...

AA Miami flight leaves 6am. I haven't done an early flight in years.

What time would one need to arrive at the airport to get through security and to the gate? 5 am at the latest?

Are ubers or lyft reliable at that time?

5am will work if you are carrying on.
445 if you are checking.

No Ubers and Lyft won’t be as reliable. Better off getting a ride or parking.

This maybe a dumb question but are there still taxis in OKC? LA has tons of taxi cab services and I’ve reverted back to using them over Uber/Lyft

This maybe a dumb question but are there still taxis in OKC? LA has tons of taxi cab services and I’ve reverted back to using them over Uber/Lyft

I think Thunder Cab still operates.

I still see Airport Express, if you want to consider that a cab service. Depending on where you live, it can be cheaper than Uber/Lyft at certain times.

I wonder when these new flights will be on sale? I saw in one article today but they aren't. This was announced 2 days ago. Isn't Saturday usually customary for new flights?

Sunday morning. Airlines usually update their GDS schedules and fare inventory Saturday nights around midnight central. By 2-3am central most have been fully distributed out.

AA Miami flight leaves 6am. I haven't done an early flight in years.

What time would one need to arrive at the airport to get through security and to the gate? 5 am at the latest?

Are ubers or lyft reliable at that time?

Schedule an uber for whenever you need to leave. It might be little more expensive but will definitely be reliable if you schedule it.

Schedule an uber for whenever you need to leave. It might be little more expensive but will definitely be reliable if you schedule it.

Thanks for the info everyone 😀

455 AM Sunday morning at the airport. The American line looked to have about 20 people in it. The security line had about 100 people in it. TSA Precheck had about 5 and my Clear line had no one. Lines were moving smoothly so maybe 15 inures to get through

Having flown out on the early flight a few times this year, add more time than that. Lines have been pretty long since there's quite a few flights out on all airlines early in the morning...

Depends on if you have Precheck. Those lines are typically no more than 5 min at 5 am while the regular line is 15-20 min sometimes longer.

Hello,

I was getting out of my plane around 7pm at WRWA yesterday and I saw a SunCountry 737 by gate 22.

Any idea what it was there for ? Did I miss a good news ?

Hello,

I was getting out of my plane around 7pm at WRWA yesterday and I saw a SunCountry 737 by gate 22.

Any idea what it was there for ? Did I miss a good news ?

Charter flight going to Laughlin, NV. Happens from time-to-time.

Yep ^ Casino Express charter.

Every so often United would bid on and win their ground handling work in OKC. Worked then a few times. They would contract with whoever would fly them. Extra Airways, Sun Country, Allegiant, whoever would do it the cheapest. Then they’d contract with a local airline or ground handler to work their flight.

It was always a weird operation. Basically a virtual airline. I never saw any representative or anything from Casino Express. A random airplane would show up, a fax would come into the operations office with the passenger manifest. They would check in at the United counter. We would fax bag counts and passenger data back to the actual operating carrier, and a copy of the check in list back to Casino Express. They would call us back at some point and say “good to go” and we’d tell the pilot Casino Express was good with everything and we could push them out. Nothing like the operations of a Part 121 carrier that we would operate daily that was organized and had processes. It was easy money for United to bid on. We already had people in place and paid for our own gates, so our overhead cost was already paid for by the actual operation we ran. I don’t think we ever hired overtime to cover those casino flights.

I wonder when these new flights will be on sale? I saw in one article today but they aren't. This was announced 2 days ago. Isn't Saturday usually customary for new flights?

The MIA flights are on sale now. They are upgraded to mainline on A319s now. So that's pretty sweet

Depends on if you have Precheck. Those lines are typically no more than 5 min at 5 am while the regular line is 15-20 min sometimes longer.

Even with PreCheck I've waited 15-20 minutes in OKC. Never say never. :) It's all dependent on passenger count, TSA staffing, etc.

One thing I’ve noticed at TSA in OKC and elsewhere is that the new Smith Detection machines are extremely slow. Maybe it’s a training/familiarity issue or something else but TSA is extremely slow at operating them and it’s worse in OKC and Tulsa than other places I’ve seen them.

Even with PreCheck I've waited 15-20 minutes in OKC. Never say never. :) It's all dependent on passenger count, TSA staffing, etc.

I highly recommend the free My TSA app that tells you what the wait times are at all of the US Airports. Really helps with planning.

The MIA flights are on sale now. They are upgraded to mainline on A319s now. So that's pretty sweetThis is good and bad. I'm glad they have the demand for mainline to MIA, but I wish AA had more than 2 rows of first on their A319s like Delta and United (I can't believe I just said that). They actually have fewer premium seats than the E175. I believe they are legacy US Airways planes, who always minimized premium seats.

I highly recommend the free My TSA app that tells you what the wait times are at all of the US Airports. Really helps with planning.

I have it. And Pre-Check. And Clear. I'm not worried about myself, but other people asking for advice who don't travel as much as me and might not be aware of the hiccups related to getting airside. I've seen messes and I've seen smooth sailing in the last year; it's been rather unpredictable.

This is good and bad. I'm glad they have the demand for mainline to MIA, but I wish AA had more than 2 rows of first on their A319s like Delta and United (I can't believe I just said that). They actually have fewer premium seats than the E175. I believe they are legacy US Airways planes, who always minimized premium seats.

Agreed. A319s are tough to get upgraded on. I had heard they were going to redesign the interiors to add a few more rows of J but that was a while ago.

Agreed. A319s are tough to get upgraded on. I had heard they were going to redesign the interiors to add a few more rows of J but that was a while ago.

Being an A319 bodes well for our chance to get the route full time.

June is out https://flyokc.com/sites/default/files/June%202023%20Enplanement.pdf

Pretty big month YOY

June is out https://flyokc.com/sites/default/files/June%202023%20Enplanement.pdf

Pretty big month YOY

Delta is so disappointing lol. Wish American got those new gates instead.

Delta is so disappointing lol. Wish American got those new gates instead.

I will say, when I flew out of OKC two weeks ago it was nice to sit in the newest part of the airport with absolutely no one around me, lmao.

Was there not any sort of requirement for them to fill those gates (serious question)? Every time I am at the airport there's like 1 or 2 max being used. Also, what happened to breeze's now empty gate?

Delta is so disappointing lol. Wish American got those new gates instead.

Nah, we DL Million-Milers are glad DL got them! More than once I've gone from TSA to sitting in my seat on the plane in under 5 minutes... I'm amazed UA has as many gates as they do given their relatively low traffic compared to AA & SW. Their fixed cost per pax must be high in OKC compared to some of their other stations..

If anyone is ever bored and would be willing to put together a map showing which airline operates out of each gate, that would be very helpful. I have lost track after the expansion.

American Airlines flight attendants asked to hold a strike authorization vote starting on Tuesday.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/airline-news/2023/07/18/american-airlines-flight-attendants-vote-strike/70427662007/