They are running 3x a day to PHX in October when I am going, so curious as why it's only 2 now

Not as many people go to PHX in the heat of summer than in the fall/winter...?

October is likely still a dummy schedule. Firm schedule through the end of the summer though. The airlines have a default schedule that extends to the end of the booking window. Aircraft types, frequencies, departure/arrival times, and flight numbers are all just placeholders. As they move forward in firming up the schedule those go away and the real schedule is published. Anything within 90 days is close to absolute. Outside of that is usually a dummy schedule or a rough draft that is in progress.

Had a departure delay this week so a chance to eat @ Osteria. Food and service were quite good and it's a nice alternative to the choices of a burger or Sysco plastic-wrapped sandwich. Glad to see this improvement at OKC.

Acronyms aren’t used over the radio.

Contact your Congressman to get the FAA to change it since it seems this is such a huge concern to the populace. Lol.

A small fraction of the populace. Minor things that don't set off most people are major triggers for others. Road-ragers come to mind, Lol.

I noticed AA changed the OKC-DCA flight to an A319 for at least part of Aug-Sept. Was looking at flights around then. Didn't look further than that timeframe.

very nice. I'd love to see AA mainline all of their flights.

Interesting question? Would we rather mature OKC's flight offerings to mainline OR get new (return) cities keeping less than mainline longer. ...

While I want return to SFO, DTW, and IAD; I think I'd vote for the maturation of the existing flight offering. If OKC could exceed the 4.6 million pax record with the current lineup, that'd encourage airlines to beef up the planes and THEN add or resume routes. I think that may be the best way to go as it should also lower ticket prices in the process.

Any thoughts?

very nice. I'd love to see AA mainline all of their flights.

Interesting question? Would we rather mature OKC's flight offerings to mainline OR get new (return) cities keeping less than mainline longer. ...

While I want return to SFO, DTW, and IAD; I think I'd vote for the maturation of the existing flight offering. If OKC could exceed the 4.6 million pax record with the current lineup, that'd encourage airlines to beef up the planes and THEN add or resume routes. I think that may be the best way to go as it should also lower ticket prices in the process.

Any thoughts?On AA I think we're at the point where more mainline makes sense. AA uses more than their gates allow now. They also use the Alaska and Frontier gate at various times. Unless AA is going to lease another gate they need bigger equipment to carry more passengers, not more planes. And that seems to be what they're doing. They're throwing in some mainline to DCA and PHX. Pre-pandemic one of the frequencies to LAX was mainline, so maybe that will change soon. CLT and DFW are mostly mainline of course.

But Delta doesn't care, and United seems more interested in frequencies. I'd love to have SFO back, and I'm sure at this point we won't get EWR back as United as completely given up the market to AA and DL with 3 frequencies. UA would blame it on the market, but AA and DL came in with a good aircraft and a consistent schedule and it's working. UA never was consistent with the schedule. No one could trust the route was going to be there in 2 months if they booked it.

Not sure why but really feels like we could get OKC-BOS on AA in the near future. They've added that route in similar markets and are seemingly the only airline investing in OKC currently. With the JetBlue partnership busted they will need to add more NE routes I would assume. Switched over to their loyalty program recently.

Speaking of JetBlue, that would be a dream addition to the airport. Directs to JFK/BOS (and maybe some seasonal Florida routes) while simultaneously putting downward pressure on prices.

I noticed AA changed the OKC-DCA flight to an A319 for at least part of Aug-Sept. Was looking at flights around then. Didn't look further than that timeframe.

While I'm glad to see mainlines added, Im selfishly annoyed thats it's the A319 because it's tough to get upgraded on since it only has 8 J seats. First world problems ��

perhaps with demand for J, AA will upgrade the plane in due time :). Would be nice to have a daily 757/A320 on OKC-DCA eventually.

perhaps with demand for J, AA will upgrade the plane in due time :). Would be nice to have a daily 757/A320 on OKC-DCA eventually.

One of the few good point of the covid pandemic were airlines finally retiring old crusty planes.
In the case of AA, it was all their 757 and overall MD.

Airbus 319 CEO are slowly heading toward retirement age.

Anyone know if OKC has tried to go after JetBlue before, or vice versa?

Anyone know if OKC has tried to go after JetBlue before, or vice versa?

Given the lack of movement on many new routes at all in the last 2 years, I'd say no.

Given the lack of movement on many new routes at all in the last 2 years, I'd say no.

Looking at their route map, they seem to focus almost exclusively on the east and west coastal regions and skip "flyover" country.

Looking at their route map, they seem to focus almost exclusively on the east and west coastal regions and skip "flyover" country.

Austin, DFW, Kansas City and Albuquerque are the closest airports with Jetblue service.

AUS has nonstop service to JFK, BOS and FLL, Kansas City has service to JFK and BOS and ABQ has service only to JFK. San Antonio also has service to JFK and BOS. That would be a great add but I don't see it happening anytime soon

Not sure why but really feels like we could get OKC-BOS on AA in the near future. They've added that route in similar markets and are seemingly the only airline investing in OKC currently. With the JetBlue partnership busted they will need to add more NE routes I would assume. Switched over to their loyalty program recently.

I've been on AAdvantage since they bought out TWA in 1998. I absolutely love it and it used to be the most generous by far, to the point that I was able to score three first-class seats to Japan using miles. Getting used to the changes to loyalty points, and it's more demand based, but it still seems like the best reward program. Plus, with so many directs from OKC it just makes sense to align with AA.

Looking at their route map, they seem to focus almost exclusively on the east and west coastal regions and skip "flyover" country.

Jetblue Route Map

18078

Well we have plenty of empty gates, and some of our core missing nonstops (Boston, JFK, FLL/Orlando) align well with their route map.

Still would rather just have AA snatch up Boston though. Guarantee Delta follows (exactly like they did with Memphis and many of their recent regional additions).

I can't see JFK on AA but PHL or BOS would be great eastern additions

doesn't OKC already have Orlando?

would love to see OKC add BOS, resume IAD, DTW, BWI, PHL and SFO, and increase aircraft size to LAX. That'd be about the right size lineup for OKC.

doesn't OKC already have Orlando?

would love to see OKC add BOS, resume IAD, DTW, BWI, PHL and SFO, and increase aircraft size to LAX. That'd be about the right size lineup for OKC.

Yes, on SWA, but it's only running 2x on Saturdays only as of right now. Allegiant has service to Sanford but it runs 1x daily on Monday and Friday.

We got our SFO-OKC flight back today!

(Kind of)

18080

We got our SFO-OKC flight back today!

(Kind of)

18080

Got my hopes up. Unfortunately this is not a route I see us getting back any time soon.

very nice. I'd love to see AA mainline all of their flights.

Interesting question? Would we rather mature OKC's flight offerings to mainline OR get new (return) cities keeping less than mainline longer. ...

While I want return to SFO, DTW, and IAD; I think I'd vote for the maturation of the existing flight offering. If OKC could exceed the 4.6 million pax record with the current lineup, that'd encourage airlines to beef up the planes and THEN add or resume routes. I think that may be the best way to go as it should also lower ticket prices in the process.

Any thoughts?

For me who primarily flies internationally, I don't care if I fly out of OKC on a Regional Jet - I need to connect to the international gateways and since 2020 it has been difficult.

I used to fly primarily United, but it's not as easy as it used to be since so many hubs are no longer flown to directly. It severely limits my options while trying to avoid 2 Stop flights.

1. United no longer flying direct to SFO - their #1 gateway to Asia.
2. United no longer flying direct to EWR - their #1 gateway to Europe.
3. United no longer flying direct to IAD - their #2 gateway to Europe.
So now I mostly fly to ORD and occasionally to IAH and there just isn't as many options.

I use Delta when I can, but it's the same story.
1. Delta not flying direct to SEA - their #1 West gateway to Asia.
2. Delta not flying direct to LAX - their #2 West gateway to Asia.
3. Delta no longer flying direct to DTW - some options to Europe (and their East gateway to Asia but obviously out of the way).
4. Delta not flying direct to JFK - their #1 gateway to Europe. Switching from LGA to JFK is worse than just having a 2-stop flight too.
5. Delta not flying direct to BOS - their #2 gateway to Europe.
So now I pretty much ONLY fly to ATL for Europe and don't use Delta at all for Asia.

American has (mostly) been the best alternative to United for me, but it could be better.
1. American not flying direct to JFK - their #1 gateway to Europe.
2. American no longer flying direct to PHL - their #2 gateway to Europe.
American is easily #1 for Asia from OKC and it's not even close.

So to sum it up, if you are going from OKC to Asia, American is really your only real choice, but occasionally United may work and Delta isn't even an option. If you are going to Europe, any of the three can work depending on where you are needing to go but you have much fewer options now than you did before 2020.

My wish list - IN ORDER is:
1. Reinstate United to SFO
2. Reinstate United to EWR
3. Delta to JFK
4. Reinstate United to IAD
5. Reinstate American to PHL
6. Delta to BOS
7. American to JFK

^ Agree with those and would add more routes/frequencies to Florida. It’s hard to go on a winter vacation to Florida and the Caribbean without connecting in FL.

I believe we will get Boston in the near future. I know for a fact it is being strongly pushed for.

^ Agree with those and would add more routes/frequencies to Florida. It’s hard to go on a winter vacation to Florida and the Caribbean without connecting in FL.

We have the MIA direct on AA

Activity is out. Looks big. https://flyokc.com/sites/default/files/May%202023%20Activity%20report.pdf

Dk where the enplanement is

I know we all know what we mean, but there is a difference between direct flights and nonstop flights and the avgeek in me was just bursting to clarify! Sorry. Granted I would take direct flights to all of the markets mentioned above, but pretty much only Southwest does direct flights it seems anymore. I was just on one about three weeks ago with them for the fist time in a long time. Got on a Southwest plane in Hayden, CO and didn't get off of it until I landed in OKC with a quick stop for pax in DEN. It cut about two hours off of my travel time and I pretty much stumbled into it. I needed to go up to Steamboat and it just so happened that the plane continued on to OKC on the way home. It was great. But, yeah, more nonstops to coastal hubs is what we need around here.

Back in the late 90s, i actually had a flight to Columbus that stopped in Tulsa of all places. It was weird to stop and pick up a handful of people and then continue on our way. But at least we didn't have to de-plane/etc like a connector. I dont think you see anything like that with Tulsa any longer, and i'm not sad about that.

Back in the late 90s, i actually had a flight to Columbus that stopped in Tulsa of all places. It was weird to stop and pick up a handful of people and then continue on our way. But at least we didn't have to de-plane/etc like a connector. I dont think you see anything like that with Tulsa any longer, and i'm not sad about that.I believe Delta used to run the ATL route as a triangle with OKC-TUL, at least some of the time in the 90s. At least that is my memory. I don't remember which way. I just remember that flight as a kid. But both OKC and TUL have a lot more traffic now. No need to do things like that. It makes a lot more sense with Southwest's model. The legacy carriers could do it with a stop in a hub (they used to), but that's not how they utilize their aircraft and crews anymore. Their systems move planes and crews around more efficiently, especially in IRROPS.

I was recently on Southwest PHX-TUL and there were multiple passengers staying on the plane in Tulsa continuing to STL. I know there are two one stop same plane connections from TUL to Florida: TUL-STL-FLL and TUL-HOU-TPA. Currently the easiest way to get to FL outside of the weekly nonstops on Allegiant or the Saturday only nonstop to MIA on AA. Hoping that flight goes daily like it did recently in OKC

Tulsa picked up a few routes,

additional to PHX this winter on AA
Breeze to New Orleans

https://thepointsguy.com/news/american-airlines-new-phoenix-flights/
https://thepointsguy.com/news/breeze-airways-nonstop-flights-five-routes/

Tulsa picked up a few routes,

additional to PHX this winter on AA
Breeze to New Orleans

https://thepointsguy.com/news/american-airlines-new-phoenix-flights/
https://thepointsguy.com/news/breeze-airways-nonstop-flights-five-routes/

Impressed with Tulsa's expansion over the last year+. Basically the same route map as us at this point with way less traffic (yes I know less frequencies ect but still).

Impressed with Tulsa's expansion over the last year+. Basically the same route map as us at this point with way less traffic (yes I know less frequencies ect but still).

Way less frequencies especially on Southwest, but the route map is similar. I think TUL’s biggest deficiency vs OKC is the Alaska nonstop to SEA. Also the Frontier nonstop to DEN which keeps prices lower on WN and UA. TUL currently has no Frontier service. Getting Alaska has to be the #1 priority, along with securing a nonstop to the SF Bay Area (OKC’s #1 priority).

https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/7/76/7762b855-59be-5348-a32f-b2ae4319f4b2/524ebd72caa00.image.jpg

https://i0.wp.com/sapulpaherald.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/route-map-2014_large.jpg?resize=768%2C593&ssl=1

Oklahoma City WWRA and Tulsa International needs to work together toward flight coordination and bring back international flights to Mexico. Also the state needs to invest about $500 million/$250 million each to upgrade both of our two largest cities airports.

OKC-TUL could be connected by high speed rail (Current Biden Administration funds).

This would maintain more flights where travelers from both cities aren't going to DFW, STL or KC for flights.

Wrong thread and HSR is never going to happen anyways.

Wrong thread and HSR is never going to happen anyways.

Okay, drop the HSR, what are your views on investment funding upgrades to OKC WWRA and Tulsa International expansions.

Wrong thread and HSR is never going to happen anyways.

Lol you can’t say “wrong thread” and then drop a goading statement like that.

Tulsa is getting an international terminal with customs within the next couple of years to allow flights to Mexico/Caribbean destinations. I thought Will Rogers was already set up for that.

I have a feeling there's going to be an explosion of travel to the Caribbean over the next decade. FL/LA/Vegas/etc are all so crowded. Not that a lot of the Caribbean isn't as well, but expanded air travel will open up a lot of new traffic and investment. It won't be just cruises driving the tourism to some of these destinations.

Wish Tulsa had Frontier flights still. I have considered driving down to OKC just to fly to Vegas. It's about a hundred extra dollars each way from Tulsa most of the time, but then you spend $12+ on tolls and whatever on gas anyway going down to OKC, not to mention the time. Maybe Breeze will add Vegas eventually. I did have good luck with them flying to Tampa a couple years ago.

Given OKC's recent struggles in getting more routes and frequencies and upgrades, I can easily see Tulsa getting an international flight before OKC. I would be surprised if it didn't happen, honestly.

OKC has an international gate but there is no Custom staff and no international flight
My guess, it will be one of the low cost going to Cancun as our first international destination. The Caribes are far from OK.

I wish OKC would get Breeze back overall the Tampa flight. So practical.

OKC has an international gate but there is no Custom staff and no international flight
My guess, it will be one of the low cost going to Cancun as our first international destination. The Caribes are far from OK.

I wish OKC would get Breeze back overall the Tampa flight. So practical.

Or SW daily to Tampa would be even better. Believe it is just seasonal on Saturdays?

It would be nice, sure. Unfortunately, even the weekly SW flight on Saturday is going away. June was the last month for this service.

Customs and Border Patrol are the sole deciders if a passenger screening facility will be staffed. There are large airports in the country that still do not have appropriate staffing for their international flights at certain times and offers by the airport and airlines to cover the costs of additional agents or overtime are not entertained at all. Recently here in Denver we only had 3 customs agents on duty to screen our international arrival bank. Wait times were pushing 3 hours for clearance and we held 25 connecting flights for connections. The number I heard was that one day cost United $125,000 in delay costs to save those 25 connecting flights that were held, tying up our gates for the next arrival bank. The staffing of CBP is 100% their discretion and they do not consider any other entity but their own.


Chssooner you can’t blame this one on the airport director.

Customs and Border Patrol are the sole deciders if a passenger screening facility will be staffed. There are large airports in the country that still do not have appropriate staffing for their international flights at certain times and offers by the airport and airlines to cover the costs of additional agents or overtime are not entertained at all. Recently here in Denver we only had 3 customs agents on duty to screen our international arrival bank. Wait times were pushing 3 hours for clearance and we held 25 connecting flights for connections. The number I heard was that one day cost United $125,000 in delay costs to save those 25 connecting flights that were held, tying up our gates for the next arrival bank. The staffing of CBP is 100% their discretion and they do not consider any other entity but their own.


Chssooner you can’t blame this one on the airport director.

I'm not blaming him. I'm just saying that other airports are getting more frequencies, for one reason or another. I'll stop blaming the director, but it doesn't change that, for some reason, OKC is not batting as well as other cities in its class. Omaha, Louisville, Des Moines, ABQ, Charleston, etc. all have better options and frequencies.

I'm not bashing the director, but for some reason, airlines don't love OKC. And something needs to change, either on our citizenry or the airport itself, in order for it to keep growing.

That horse is dead CHSooner. You can quit beating him. We've all heard you loud and clear

That horse is dead CHSooner. You can quit beating him. We've all heard you loud and clear

Dead or not, the airport is stagnant. For whatever reason, other airports are getting new routes, and OKC is losing them.

I don't give a rats behind whose fault it is or isn't, we as a city need to figure out how to change it.

Dead or not, the airport is stagnant. For whatever reason, other airports are getting new routes, and OKC is losing them.

I don't give a rats behind whose fault it is or isn't, we as a city need to figure out how to change it.

I'm sure this is keeping the CEOs of the major airlines awake at night. Don't worry they'll get right on it. We'll all collectively figure out how to square peg this round hole.

I'm sure this is keeping the CEOs of the major airlines awake at night. Don't worry they'll get right on it. We'll all collectively figure out how to square peg this round hole.

This is merely a discussion board, and I'm not attacking any posters or calling names or denigrating (unlike others). All I'm saying is, other cities have figured it out, and are getting upgrades in service or frequencies, or or new destinations, and OKC is having the opposite happen.

I don't know what the solution is. I plead ignorance on that. But there have to be steps to take to move forward.

Given OKC's recent struggles in getting more routes and frequencies and upgrades, I can easily see Tulsa getting an international flight before OKC. I would be surprised if it didn't happen, honestly.

not sure I follow you on that.

This is merely a discussion board, and I'm not attacking any posters or calling names or denigrating (unlike others). All I'm saying is, other cities have figured it out, and are getting upgrades in service or frequencies, or or new destinations, and OKC is having the opposite happen.

I don't know what the solution is. I plead ignorance on that. But there have to be steps to take to move forward.

A combination of the existence of DFW and to a lesser extent love field and Tulsa within 1-3 hours by car or 30 minutes by plane of here combined with a relatively low population. pretty simple.

A combination of the existence of DFW and to a lesser extent love field and Tulsa within 1-3 hours by car or 30 minutes by plane of here combined with a relatively low population. pretty simple.

Right, the free market is at work here. Sure relationship-building/marketing efforts can help attract carriers and routes, but the simple numbers dictate service upgrades at the end of the day. If the business is there, a carrier will take advantage! And the whole industry is trying to figure out where the industry is going post COVID, it will take several years for them to fully grasp it. Just take a listen to the Airlines Confidential podcast out there, it is a weekly show with two expert hosts, high-profile guests, and lots of airline news. I highly recommend it if the industry fascinates you as it does me and they cover these kind of questions and issues all the time.

Two common themes for our airport service apologists-- the free market won't support it, and we are too close to DFW.

Our load factors and fares are excellent (for airlines), especially Southwest and American. The demand for more flights is there on the carriers that provide a substantial product in OKC. And being close to DFW does little to put a lid on flights. Did it stop AUS from growing? They are 3 hours from DFW ....and.... IAH, both massive hubs. Does that stop SAT from having good airline service? Using DFW as the excuse is ridiculous because it cancels out itself. American might be the best airline in OKC, certainly the one with the most growth recently, and they're the one with the hub in OKC. DFW isn't funneling people to drive to DFW, they're flying them to DFW, CHL, MIA, DCA, etc.

Two common themes for our airport service apologists-- the free market won't support it, and we are too close to DFW.

Our load factors and fares are excellent (for airlines), especially Southwest and American. The demand for more flights is there on the carriers that provide a substantial product in OKC. And being close to DFW does little to put a lid on flights. Did it stop AUS from growing? They are 3 hours from DFW ....and.... IAH, both massive hubs. Does that stop SAT from having good airline service? Using DFW as the excuse is ridiculous because it cancels out itself. American might be the best airline in OKC, certainly the one with the most growth recently, and they're the one with the hub in OKC. DFW isn't funneling people to drive to DFW, they're flying them to DFW, CHL, MIA, DCA, etc.

Austin’s metro has a population of about 1 million more than OKC’s and has been one of, if not the fastest growing city/metro in the US for the last decade. Austin’s GDP is $194 billion (22nd nationally) compared to OKC at 86 Billion (46th). It’s annual median household income is around $81,000 (11th) while OKC’s is $60,605 (43rd).

San Antonio has 1.2 million more than OKC. Has a GDP of $144 billion (35th) and a median income of $62,355 (39th).

I don’t have the numbers to back it up but I’d be willing to bet that both, ESPECIALLY Austin, are way ahead of OKC in annual flights related to tourism.

Neither is a great comparison based on business travel, tourism or just the sheer amount of people in each market who are able to travel. It is not at all surprising that both, especially Austin, have more/better direct flights than OKC and aren’t hindered as much by proximity to large hubs. I think OKC is a little underserved but you can’t compare it to one of the fastest growing cities in the country that is a huge tourism destination…of course they will have more direct flights than we do.

Double post

Two common themes for our airport service apologists-- the free market won't support it, and we are too close to DFW.

Our load factors and fares are excellent (for airlines), especially Southwest and American. The demand for more flights is there on the carriers that provide a substantial product in OKC. And being close to DFW does little to put a lid on flights. Did it stop AUS from growing? They are 3 hours from DFW ....and.... IAH, both massive hubs. Does that stop SAT from having good airline service? Using DFW as the excuse is ridiculous because it cancels out itself. American might be the best airline in OKC, certainly the one with the most growth recently, and they're the one with the hub in OKC. DFW isn't funneling people to drive to DFW, they're flying them to DFW, CHL, MIA, DCA, etc.

Still really surprised SWA hasn't reinstated Love Field to try and recapture some of the folks who flipped to AA. There are 9 daily n/s to DFW on AA. 6 of those 9 are mainline. 3 of 9 are E175. I don't have the data that shows how many passengers get off in Dallas but I would think those frequencies shows the demand is there.

Other daily frequencies on AA:

LAX 2x on E175
AUS 1x on CRJ700, E175
PHX 2x (3x in Fall on CRJ) on CRJ700, A319
MIA 1x on E175
CLT 2x on CRJ900, A321
DCA 1x on E175
LGA 2x on E175
ORD 3x (soon) on E170, CRJ700

At the end of the day it all boils down to 2 things:

A) Does it make money?
a1) Does it make more money than another route, thus would be a better deployment of resources?

B) If it does not make money, does it contribute net value to the network?
B1) Net value to the network could mean downline contribution (OKC-DFW loses money but feeds a plethora of flights out of DFW), enhance frequent flier value in a particular market (rewards options, frequency in a business market, etc.), close the door on competition.

If it is not operating in OKC it very likely does not fit either A or B argument. You can say the Airport Director could wear a better suit, the city could replace the runways with longer ones, the city should be courting harder, etc. but none of those things really matter. It’s A or B. Does it make money, or does it provide overall network value? If not. Sorry somewhere else does. It’s nothing personal.

no one with an understanding of market forces is arguing against your thoughts catch. that is fair and likely true.

however, MY argument is OKC had services that we no longer do: OKC-LAX, OKC-SFO, OKC-EWR, OKC-IAD and better OKC-ORD service on United alone. What is the cause for those routes to not be restored? What is the cause for United to under-serve OKC with equipment while overcharging compared to competitor routes?

THESE are the legitimate questions that IMO can't quite be explained by your great explanation, since OKC had those services before, is a much larger city/metro than before, recently expanded its airport capacity, has a higher GDP and business community than before, is growing in population and has gained corporate offices, suffers from the same hybrid workplace as other markets (esp nearby), on and on. Again, OKC had these routes with less, and NO incentives were given.

I also as the same about Delta (OKC-DTW not restored, OKC-MSP downgraded, no OKC-SEA despite it being the West gateway - although Alaska might have something to do with that), American not restoring PHL (although they might). OKC has captured other routes (OKC-SAT, OKC-AUS) come to mind but I still don't get why OKC doesn't have at least ONE non-stop flight to every HUB for the majors like it did just a few years ago. We've heard everything from Pilot shortage to lack of equipment to market profitability to value proposition to the loss of a great flight operations director; all of that COULD be true but I think the flight director either previously surely pulled above his weight or the current is surely underqualified. That is the argument I'm sure some are making and I believe it is legitimate.

If people are saying they will drive to DFW or wherever because the flight option to HUB CITIES is there/cheaper then the market is there/speaking yet being ignored. Question is why.