Wish we had OKC-BNA back, and even more OKC-DAL

+1 on OKC-DAL.

Every since the Wright Amendment changed, Dallas Love has acted as a mini-hub for Southwest and it was easy to get to any SWA destination not served directly by OKC, however, that is one of the reasons the route was cancelled as many from OKC were using it as a layover and not end destination, with gate limitations at Love Field after the amendment was repealed, OKC-DAL wasn't necessarily profitable given the short route.

So for the time being it looks like TPA is gone on both WN and Breeze? And is Breeze just done in OKC? TUL is lucky to have kept some service from them. And interesting that PIE works for TUL and it has never been tried here. Wonder if Florida markets are stronger out of TUL in general? And it seems like the Chicago market is better out of TUL,wonder why? They more service to MDW and ORD than OKC. Stronger industry ties between Chicago and Tulsa? Anyone venture a guess why a small market would have more service to Chicago than us? This is all fascinating to me.

Again, no momentum for OKC's airport. Just frustrating.

Current non-stop frequencies from OKC by city:
1. Seattle - SEA: Alaska 1x M-Su
2. Los Angeles - LAX: American 2x M-Su
3. Las Vegas - LAS: Southwest 1x M-F, 2x S-Su; Frontier 1x T,Th,Su; Allegiant 1x Th,Su
4. Phoenix - PHX: Southwest 2x Su-F, 1x S; American 3x M-Su
5. Salt Lake City - SLC: Delta 2x Su-F
6. Denver - DEN: Southwest 3x Su-F, 1x S; United 4x M-Su; Frontier 1x T,Th,S,Su
7. Dallas/Ft Worth - DFW: American 7x Su-F, 6x S
8. Austin - AUS: Southwest 1x M-Su; American 1x M-Su
9. San Antonio - SAT: Southwest 1x M-F, 1x Su
10. Houston - IAH: United 6x M-Su
11. Houston - HOU: Southwest 4x M-F, 2x S, 3x Su
12. St Louis - STL: Southwest 2x M-F, 1x S-Su
13. Chicago - ORD: American 2x M-Th, 3x F-Su; United 2x M-Su
14. Chicago - MDW: Southwest 1x M-Su
15. Minneapolis - MSP: Delta 1x M-Su
16. Washington - DCA: American 1x M-Su; Southwest 1x M-Su
17. New York - LGA: American 1x M-Su; Delta 1x M-Su
18. Charlotte - CLT: American 2x M-Su
19. Atlanta - ATL: Delta 5x M-Su; Southwest 1x M-Su
20. Orlando - MCO: Southwest 1x S
21. Orlando - SFB: Allegiant 1x M,F (seasonal)
22. Destin/Ft Walton Beach - VPS: Allegiant 1x M,F - Th,S,Su (summer)
23. Miami - MIA: American 1x M-Su **returns 4/5

And Tulsa by city:
1. Los Angeles - LAX: American 1x M-Su; Allegiant 1x M,F
2. Las Vegas - LAS: Southwest 1x M-Su, Allegiant 1x M,F
3. Phoenix - PHX: Southwest 1x M-S, 2x Su; American 1x M-Su
4. Salt Lake City - SLC: Delta 2x Su-F
5. Denver - DEN: Southwest 3x Su-F, 1x S; United 4x M-Su
6. Dallas/Ft Worth - DFW: American 7x Su-F, 6x S
7. Dallas - DAL: Southwest 4x M-F, 2x S, 3x Su
8. Austin - AUS: Southwest 1x M-Su; American 1x M-Su
9. Houston - IAH: United 5x M-Su
10. Houston - HOU: Southwest 2x M-F, 1x S, 2x Su
11. St Louis - STL: Southwest 2x M-F, 1x S-Su
12. Chicago - ORD: American 3x M-Su; United 2x M-Su
13. Chicago - MDW: Southwest 2x M-F, 1x S-Su
14. Washington - DCA: American 1x M-Su
15. New York - LGA: American 1x M-Su
16. Charlotte - CLT: American 2x M-Su
17. Atlanta - ATL: Delta 4x M-Su
18. Orlando - MCO: Southwest 1x S **starts 4/15; Breeze 1x W,S **starts 3/1
19. Orlando - SFB: Allegiant 1x M,F,S (seasonal)
20. Destin/Ft Walton Beach - VPS: Allegiant 1x M,F - Th,S,Su (summer)
21. St Petersburg/Clearwater - PIE: Allegiant 1x Su,Th (seasonal)
22. Miami - MIA: American 1x S

OKC-TPA SWA starts back April 15th for Saturday service. Ends June 3rd.
OKC-BNA SWA starts back June 3 for Saturday and Sunday service. Still on schedule as of Oct 1

OKC-TPA SWA starts back April 15th for Saturday service. Ends June 3rd.
OKC-BNA SWA starts back June 3 for Saturday and Sunday service. Still on schedule as of Oct 1

Weird. Why such a short window for the TPA flight? I mean, spring break season is over by that point. I don't get it. Would love to see their analysis to come up with that schedule.

Nothing necessarily wrong with OKC's service, except maybe all the holes left by United. But Tulsa has EXCELLENT service when you compare that OKC has 36% more passenger traffic than TUL (2022 2.89M vs. 3.94M). Are the planes just 30% empty flying in and out of Tulsa??

^I think you have to start looking at frequencies at that point vs total cities served

^I think you have to start looking at frequencies at that point vs total cities servedRoughly, looks like 68 peak day departures from OKC and 59 from TUL. That's only a 15% difference. Granted I don't know equipment type.

Roughly, looks like 68 peak day departures from OKC and 59 from TUL. That's only a 15% difference. Granted I don't know equipment type.

I think OKC has slightly more mainline service than TUL. The biggest difference at this point is Alaska Airlines and Seattle; TUL does not have either but I know getting them is the top priority for the airport. Having Alaska opens up the possibility of future service to Portland, San Francisco, San Jose and San Diego, all big holes in the current route map from both cities. Alaska and AA are also partner airlines so there is that benefit too with so many existing AA flights.

Southwest overall has a much larger presence at OKC, including 2 additional cities (SAT, ATL) and soon-to-be 4 (TPA, BNA). I believe they have a 42% market share in OKC vs. 32% in TUL.

I would love to see Breeze actually stick with routes out of OKC and TUL but right now I would hesitate to fly them because the route could be discontinued before your flight. I know I was going to fly them to BNA but they ended the flight. TUL-MCO with "breeze-thru" (same plane) service to CHS is currently the only Breeze route coming back for summer.

So for the time being it looks like TPA is gone on both WN and Breeze? And is Breeze just done in OKC? TUL is lucky to have kept some service from them. And interesting that PIE works for TUL and it has never been tried here. Wonder if Florida markets are stronger out of TUL in general? And it seems like the Chicago market is better out of TUL,wonder why? They more service to MDW and ORD than OKC. Stronger industry ties between Chicago and Tulsa? Anyone venture a guess why a small market would have more service to Chicago than us? This is all fascinating to me.

Top cities by current weekday service levels at or above 2x/daily:
OKC
1. Houston: 10x United and Southwest (IAH & HOU)
2. Denver 8x United, Southwest and Frontier
3. Dallas/Ft Worth 7x American
4. Atlanta 6x Delta and Southwest
5. Phoenix 5x American and Southwest
6. Chicago 5x American and Southwest (ORD & MDW)
7. Los Angeles 2x American
8. Salt Lake City 2x Delta
9. St Louis 2x Southwest
10. Austin 2x Southwest and American
11. Charlotte 2x American
12. New York 2x American and Delta
13. Washington 2x American and Southwest

TUL
1. Dallas/Ft Worth 11x American and Southwest (DFW & DAL)
2. Chicago 7x American, United and Southwest (ORD & MDW)
3. Denver 7x Southwest and United
4. Houston 7x Southwest and United (IAH & HOU)
5. Atlanta 4x Delta
6. St Louis 2x Southwest
7. Austin 2x Southwest and American
8. Charlotte 2x American
9. Phoenix 2x Southwest and American
10. Salt Lake City 2x Delta

^looks like starting June 1-Oct 28 OKC-CLT bumps up to 3x daily. Mix between CRJ900, A319, and A-320

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/2023/02/14/in-oklahomas-airport-rivalry-tulsa-leads-okc-in-pandemic-recovery/amp/

"In Oklahoma’s Airport Rivalry, Tulsa Leads OKC In Pandemic Recovery"

Really need go get SFO back. And Boston.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/2023/02/14/in-oklahomas-airport-rivalry-tulsa-leads-okc-in-pandemic-recovery/amp/

"In Oklahoma’s Airport Rivalry, Tulsa Leads OKC In Pandemic Recovery"

Almost like what I've been lambasted on here for saying.

Top cities by current weekday service levels at or above 2x/daily:
OKC
1. Houston: 10x United and Southwest (IAH & HOU)
2. Denver 8x United, Southwest and Frontier
3. Dallas/Ft Worth 7x American
4. Atlanta 6x Delta and Southwest
5. Phoenix 5x American and Southwest
6. Chicago 5x American and Southwest (ORD & MDW)
7. Los Angeles 2x American
8. Salt Lake City 2x Delta
9. St Louis 2x Southwest
10. Austin 2x Southwest and American
11. Charlotte 2x American
12. New York 2x American and Delta
13. Washington 2x American and Southwest

TUL
1. Dallas/Ft Worth 11x American and Southwest (DFW & DAL)
2. Chicago 7x American, United and Southwest (ORD & MDW)
3. Denver 7x Southwest and United
4. Houston 7x Southwest and United (IAH & HOU)
5. Atlanta 4x Delta
6. St Louis 2x Southwest
7. Austin 2x Southwest and American
8. Charlotte 2x American
9. Phoenix 2x Southwest and American
10. Salt Lake City 2x Delta

For OKC, are you missing ORD service from UA or do they just have one per day on that route? That would seem very under-served.

For OKC, are you missing ORD service from UA or do they just have one per day on that route? That would seem very under-served.

UA has a M-Sa 2x direct to ORD, using an Embraer 175 currently. Sunday is only 1x.

Almost like what I've been lambasted on here for saying.

I took away from that article that there is a high probability that Tulsa has been vastly under served. But once again, if you look at frequencies and aircraft type, vs destinations, that's where the two start to separate.

Some notes:
The article mentions that TUL has 9 nonstop from AA and OKC has 8. Both serve 9 but the OKC one to MIA is seasonal.
Second, the article says SWA has 11 out of OKC, it's actually 13. Says Tul has 8, when it's 9.
Third, it says that TUL has a direct to Mesa and Sarasota but they doesn't seem to be around anymore.
Finally, it says both have 24 nonstops. According to data below, OKC has 25, Tulsa has 22. Those include seasonal routes.

I'll still take OKC offerings over TUL right now.

https://www.flightconnections.com/flights-from-tulsa-tul

https://www.flightconnections.com/flights-from-oklahoma-city-okc

If you click on each destination is shows the airlines on the left and the days served. Great tool for planning travel. You can select certain airlines to search for, and if you get membership it opens it up even more, esp searching alliances to cities served.

My family is going on an Alaskan Cruise in July of this year. The cruise leaves from Vancouver, goes up the coast and then we fly back from Anchorage. For about two weeks, on a daily basis, we would search America, United and Delta to see what the best flights are and what they cost. We looked at doing AA from Dallas direct to Vancouver and then back to Dallas to drive back. The cost was around $4,800 for three of us. Then we stumbled upon Alaskan Airlines and found out we could save about $2,000 and have better flights by taking the OKC-SEA and then connecting from there. We never really considered Alaskan airlines because of where our points lie, but this was the best for our family and I wanted to share that info here.

So comparing OKC's destinations now to pre-pandemic, we still need to get BACK the following:


OKC-BNA (Nashville): someone above confirmed it's coming back
OKC-DTW (Detroit)
OKC-PHL (Philadelphia)
OKC- SFO
OKC-IAD (Washington N Virginia)
OKC-BWI (Baltimore)
OKC-TPA: someone confirmed its return, but seasonal
OKC-MSY (New Orleans)
OKC-EWR (New York Newark): very surprised this is not back, come on United


Additional pairings that once existed:

OKC-DAL (Dallas)
OKC-CLE (Cleveland)
OKC-CVG (Cincinnati)
OKC-MCI (Kansas City)
OKC-OAK (Oakland)
OKC-SAN (San Diego)


for all of the wonderful additions we've gotten, SEA, LGA, MIA, MCO, DCA; I think the OKC Airport Trust should focus on restoring what we had and growing existing routes to mainline. For restored routes, start with United hubs then move on to those we lost long ago. I'd even recommend seed money for new and restored routes to get them started/restarted for a period, with more $$ than just ads in OKC but the catchment and route pair markets so they know the route exists.

So comparing OKC's destinations now to pre-pandemic, we still need to get BACK the following:


OKC-BNA (Nashville): someone above confirmed it's coming back
OKC-DTW (Detroit)
OKC-PHL (Philadelphia)
OKC- SFO
OKC-IAD (Washington N Virginia)
OKC-BWI (Baltimore)
OKC-TPA: someone confirmed its return, but seasonal
OKC-MSY (New Orleans)
OKC-EWR (New York Newark): very surprised this is not back, come on United


Additional pairings that once existed:

OKC-DAL (Dallas)
OKC-CLE (Cleveland)
OKC-CVG (Cincinnati)
OKC-MCI (Kansas City)
OKC-OAK (Oakland)
OKC-SAN (San Diego)


for all of the wonderful additions we've gotten, SEA, LGA, MIA, MCO, DCA; I think the OKC Airport Trust should focus on restoring what we had and growing existing routes to mainline. For restored routes, start with United hubs then move on to those we lost long ago. I'd even recommend seed money for new and restored routes to get them started/restarted for a period, with more $$ than just ads in OKC but the catchment and route pair markets so they know the route exists.

So we must have had OKC-CLE on CO, what, back in the 90s? I remember when CLE was a big midwest hub for CO, but it didn't seem to last more than about a decade. I think the big priorities for the OKC airport admin right now has to be getting back a Bay Area flight--that is a HUGE hole in the map. It has to be the largest domestic metro without any service from here. I mean at least the large metros have service to ONE of the airports, but we have NOTHING to the Bay Area. After that, BOS has to be another one to try and get. BOS has a huge catchment area and I am sure would do well from here. PDX comes in at a distant third, in my opinion.

So we must have had OKC-CLE on CO, what, back in the 90s? I remember when CLE was a big midwest hub for CO, but it didn't seem to last more than about a decade. I think the big priorities for the OKC airport admin right now has to be getting back a Bay Area flight--that is a HUGE hole in the map. It has to be the largest domestic metro without any service from here. I mean at least the large metros have service to ONE of the airports, but we have NOTHING to the Bay Area. After that, BOS has to be another one to try and get. BOS has a huge catchment area and I am sure would do well from here. PDX comes in at a distant third, in my opinion.

OKC-CLE was served by United in 2013-14. Below is a press release from 2/14/13. Likely boosted by CHK and others during the Marcellus Shale gas boom.

The United "good old days" when there was service to SFO, DEN, IAH, ORD, CLE, IAD and EWR..

https://flyokc.com/sites/default/files/Cleveland%2520Inaugural.pdf

Anyone know when OKC-DTW will return???

Also, what are the odds that Delta would try to start SEA-OKC?

Until they surprisingly added LGA, it seemed like Delta couldn’t care less about OKC so I’d say 0%. But they could add SEA and BOS and clean up!

So comparing OKC's destinations now to pre-pandemic, we still need to get BACK the following:


OKC-BNA (Nashville): someone above confirmed it's coming back
OKC-DTW (Detroit)
OKC-PHL (Philadelphia)
OKC- SFO
OKC-IAD (Washington N Virginia)
OKC-BWI (Baltimore)
OKC-TPA: someone confirmed its return, but seasonal
OKC-MSY (New Orleans)
OKC-EWR (New York Newark): very surprised this is not back, come on United


Additional pairings that once existed:

OKC-DAL (Dallas)
OKC-CLE (Cleveland)
OKC-CVG (Cincinnati)
OKC-MCI (Kansas City)
OKC-OAK (Oakland)
OKC-SAN (San Diego)


for all of the wonderful additions we've gotten, SEA, LGA, MIA, MCO, DCA; I think the OKC Airport Trust should focus on restoring what we had and growing existing routes to mainline. For restored routes, start with United hubs then move on to those we lost long ago. I'd even recommend seed money for new and restored routes to get them started/restarted for a period, with more $$ than just ads in OKC but the catchment and route pair markets so they know the route exists.

While it's not missed, OKC also had nonstop between OKC and TUL at one time on Delta. I know because I did that. Great Plains did nonstop to ABQ and COS.
http://www.departedflights.com/ZO031103.html

OKC-CLE was served by United in 2013-14. Below is a press release from 2/14/13. Likely boosted by CHK and others during the Marcellus Shale gas boom.

The United "good old days" when there was service to SFO, DEN, IAH, ORD, CLE, IAD and EWR..

https://flyokc.com/sites/default/files/Cleveland%2520Inaugural.pdf

Good find on that press release! WAAAY more recent in history than I thought! How long did OKC-CLE last?

It lasted until late 2014 when they began to close the CLE hub.

Seats 1-4A on an EMB are superior to any seat on Southwest.

While it's not missed, OKC also had nonstop between OKC and TUL at one time on Delta. I know because I did that. Great Plains did nonstop to ABQ and COS.
http://www.departedflights.com/ZO031103.html

I flew OKC-TUL on Delta twice. It was about a 30 min flight, similar distance as DEN-COS.

I’d love to see an airline restart that route as a tag like Great Plains Airlines did with TUL-OKC-COS and TUL-OKC-ABQ - both cities that would be great to have back for access to hiking/skiing .

My family is going on an Alaskan Cruise in July of this year. The cruise leaves from Vancouver, goes up the coast and then we fly back from Anchorage. For about two weeks, on a daily basis, we would search America, United and Delta to see what the best flights are and what they cost. We looked at doing AA from Dallas direct to Vancouver and then back to Dallas to drive back. The cost was around $4,800 for three of us. Then we stumbled upon Alaskan Airlines and found out we could save about $2,000 and have better flights by taking the OKC-SEA and then connecting from there. We never really considered Alaskan airlines because of where our points lie, but this was the best for our family and I wanted to share that info here.

I have family in the Pacific NW and Alaska is our go-to airline. The OKC-SEA flight is great and gets into SEA in time to hit all the connections Alaska has out of their hub there.

It may be best to compare OKC and TUL air service to its peers such as OMA (Omaha - Eppley Field) ( RIC - Richmond International) and SDF (Louisville/Muhammad Ali International) to assess if the service level for the state two largest airports are better, equal or less than comparable metros. Just based off of these three metros, which are very similar in metro population, OKC and TUL have some definite gaps in service to be comparable with these peers that are reported.

Especially OKC considering it's by far the largest city and metro population of the aformentioned airports yet has lower pax and worst service. OKC definitely needs to work on this, TUL is pulling above its weight by comparison given it's lower pop but even TUL is bigger metro than OMA and maybe Richmond.

Nice reminder of the OKC-TUL service, that'd be a thrill if Delta brought that back or United did it as a tag; DEN-OKC-TUL-ORD for example. Also yes, ABQ and COS were nonstops.

I recall the OKC-CLE flight as it was the only time I went to CLE, was shocked by the size of that airport in comparison.

Like I said, OKC airport director has gotten lazy. Their new one is not very good, especially compared to their last one.

I’d be happy with at least 2x daily nonstop service to all the main hubs for AA, Delta, United, Alaska and Southwest :D

Especially OKC considering it's by far the largest city and metro population of the aformentioned airports yet has lower pax and worst service. OKC definitely needs to work on this,



And what do you suggest that OKC do to work on it that they aren't doing?

The last 2x l have flown to OKC on SW, the fare to DAL was < 1/2 price so it was cheaper to fly there and drive to OKC. When the fares to OKC are so high, of course airport use will be lower. Demand airlines charge fares making it worthwhile to go there and passenger volume wiil go up. SW hasn't always been this way.

The last 2x l have flown to OKC on SW, the fare to DAL was < 1/2 price so it was cheaper to fly there and drive to OKC. When the fares to OKC are so high, of course airport use will be lower. Demand airlines charge fares making it worthwhile to go there and passenger volume wiil go up. SW hasn't always been this way.

Let me know how that phone call works out.

“Yes, hello - we are wondering if you could actually lower your prices and make your flights less profitable here in Oklahoma City, we think it would boost our traffic counts so you can fly bigger airplanes and charge even lower prices to fill those extra seats, hello? — the line must have cut out”

Richmond and Louisville are benefited by geography. They are just located in more population-dense regions. They are located closer to more of the Midwest and east coast big cities and therefore aircraft can rotate through them more quickly resulting in higher utilization. I can guarantee you that if OKC was located where SDF and RIC were located, we would have better service, too. As far as OMA goes, I have heard that because they have more Fortune 500 companies than OKC, they have better air service. I have no idea if this is really true, or if they even have more Fortune 500 companies than OKC. I don't think their advantage is as much geography as it is economy.

Richmond and Louisville are benefited by geography. They are just located in more population-dense regions. They are located closer to more of the Midwest and east coast big cities and therefore aircraft can rotate through them more quickly resulting in higher utilization. I can guarantee you that if OKC was located where SDF and RIC were located, we would have better service, too. As far as OMA goes, I have heard that because they have more Fortune 500 companies than OKC, they have better air service. I have no idea if this is really true, or if they even have more Fortune 500 companies than OKC. I don't think their advantage is as much geography as it is economy.

Omaha has a huge catchment area and does have a bigger corporate community than OKC and Tulsa, even with a smaller metro population. If you’ve been there recently they also have quite the building boom happening.

Let me know how that phone call works out.

“Yes, hello - we are wondering if you could actually lower your prices and make your flights less profitable here in Oklahoma City, we think it would boost our traffic counts so you can fly bigger airplanes and charge even lower prices to fill those extra seats, hello? — the line must have cut out”

The amount of "oh you have no idea how any of this works do you" ideas that get thrown around is incredible.

Population growth for OKC will be the biggest driver of any of this. And OKC is growing at a good clip right now. Results will follow.

As far as I'm aware, OKC offers the same incentives everyone else does. Airlines are just constrained by equipment and pilots, plus economic storm clouds are gathering.

The amount of "oh you have no idea how any of this works do you" ideas that get thrown around is incredible.

Population growth for OKC will be the biggest driver of any of this. And OKC is growing at a good clip right now. Results will follow.

As far as I'm aware, OKC offers the same incentives everyone else does. Airlines are just constrained by equipment and pilots, plus economic storm clouds are gathering.

Short of directly subsidizing the airlines with cash money there is nothing the airport director can do to convince the airlines to add routes, as I have mentioned many times.

The airlines are the popular girls at the dance, they can have any guy they want. They choose where they want to go. Believe me they have the number for the OKC business office — they add routes where they have the most impact on the bottom line. The director can call every airline every single day and beg and plead for more service and it won’t change a dang thing. This fantasy that the airport director is sleeping on the job is a bit over the top.

Opposite experience yesterday. Flew DEN-TUL on United which was on a E145. I would’ve much preferred the Southwest 737. United only flying mainline on 1 of its 4 daily nonstops to DEN.

I refuse to fly United under any circumstances.

How does one successfully book trips with Frontier. Like do you have to book one leg for OKC to DEN, and then book the second leg to another city? For instance, I tried OKC to Charleston/Myrtle Beach and Frontier's website said unavailable. But I can book a flight from DEN to one Myrtle Beach. I was looking at buying their summer pass but if I can only go to DEN or Las Vegas or I can go anywhere they fly starting from OKC then it may not be a good deal. Just wondering if any one flies Frontier enough to know the ins and outs of their system.

When did breeze leave okc?

I only see tulsa listed on the search page

When did breeze leave okc?

I only see tulsa listed on the search page

probably not enough passengers.

Big carriers do well in OKC, the start ups fail.

AA and SWA's Austin routes are doing just fine. Via Air crashed and burned.

Not sure if that's unique to OKC or not, but seems to be how it works.

I refuse to fly United under any circumstances.

Pourquoi?

Short of directly subsidizing the airlines with cash money there is nothing the airport director can do to convince the airlines to add routes, as I have mentioned many times.

The airlines are the popular girls at the dance, they can have any guy they want. They choose where they want to go. Believe me they have the number for the OKC business office — they add routes where they have the most impact on the bottom line. The director can call every airline every single day and beg and plead for more service and it won’t change a dang thing. This fantasy that the airport director is sleeping on the job is a bit over the top.I'm not in the airline industry. But if incentives and recruiting didn't work, then airports wouldn't do it. But I also assume there is significant truth to what you are saying. Nevertheless, I believe OKC is underserved at the moment compared to what could be. Every flight I have been on in the last year has been completely full, or 1-2 seats short of it. That's no exaggeration. A couple were oversold. I've flown all 4 major carriers-- American, Delta, Southwest, United. Average airline load factors are in the 80s. OKC seems to be higher, though I don't know OKC's official figures. But fares are astronomical compared to other cities in our region-- Tulsa, DFW, Wichita. That tells me airlines are sending fewer planes to OKC and charging higher fares that other cities in our region. That's simple economics.

I'm not in the airline industry. But if incentives and recruiting didn't work, then airports wouldn't do it. But I also assume there is significant truth to what you are saying. Nevertheless, I believe OKC is underserved at the moment compared to what could be. Every flight I have been on in the last year has been completely full, or 1-2 seats short of it. That's no exaggeration. A couple were oversold. I've flown all 4 major carriers-- American, Delta, Southwest, United. Average airline load factors are in the 80s. OKC seems to be higher, though I don't know OKC's official figures. But fares are astronomical compared to other cities in our region-- Tulsa, DFW, Wichita. That tells me airlines are sending fewer planes to OKC and charging higher fares that other cities in our region. That's simple economics.

I work in a hub so I see a multitude of destinations on my gate every day. Every flight everywhere is full. The airline industry is overwhelmed with nearly unlimited domestic demand right now. You put an airplane somewhere and it will be full and it will make money. There is no incentive to be chasing market share somewhere when everything is full. Most of Tulsa’s growth has come from Allegiant type operations and routes. They always are searching for markets to tap into to stay away from the legacy airlines.

Out of the 7 departures scheduled for my gate this morning, all are full - there’s a total of 18 open seats between the 7 of them. These are just random United Express cities on E175 equipment. this is my 12th year with United, and this is unheard of demand for February which is typically a slow month across the board. If you are in United’s shoes why would you shuffle capacity around when what you are already flying is making money. You are trading one money making route for one of the same potential?

After wondering for years about the existence of this elusive phenom, I finally met the sasquatch of air travel for OKC: connecting passengers !

Yesterday I was on the San Antonio-OKC on SW, and my seats neighbors were heading to Saint Louis through a connection in OKC. Wild ! (at least for me).

good way to raise the passengers count !

I work in a hub so I see a multitude of destinations on my gate every day. Every flight everywhere is full. The airline industry is overwhelmed with nearly unlimited domestic demand right now. You put an airplane somewhere and it will be full and it will make money. There is no incentive to be chasing market share somewhere when everything is full. Most of Tulsa’s growth has come from Allegiant type operations and routes. They always are searching for markets to tap into to stay away from the legacy airlines.

Out of the 7 departures scheduled for my gate this morning, all are full - there’s a total of 18 open seats between the 7 of them. These are just random United Express cities on E175 equipment. this is my 12th year with United, and this is unheard of demand for February which is typically a slow month across the board. If you are in United’s shoes why would you shuffle capacity around when what you are already flying is making money. You are trading one money making route for one of the same potential?I don't think Tulsa's growth is only Allegiant. They've added all of American's hubs they didn't already have in the last few months. They now have equal service to OKC on American.

And maybe airlines don't care about making MORE money. MOST businesses do. If the fares are the same to all of said cities, then what you say is correct. But, for instance, if the fare from DEN to TUL is $200 and DEN to OKC is $400, why don't they shift one flight a day to OKC? It would help them raise fares in TUL and they may not even need to lower them in OKC because of the demand. In this example, I just use TUL because I often see significantly cheaper fares from there than OKC. If airlines can't figure out this basic microeconomic principle then next time they need a bail out I won't be for it (for the first time), not that I have any pull besides one vote. :)

I don't think Tulsa's growth is only Allegiant. They've added all of American's hubs they didn't already have in the last few months. They now have equal service to OKC on American.

And maybe airlines don't care about making MORE money. MOST businesses do. If the fares are the same to all of said cities, then what you say is correct. But, for instance, if the fare from DEN to TUL is $200 and DEN to OKC is $400, why don't they shift one flight a day to OKC? It would help them raise fares in TUL and they may not even need to lower them in OKC because of the demand. In this example, I just use TUL because I often see significantly cheaper fares from there than OKC. If airlines can't figure out this basic microeconomic principle then next time they need a bail out I won't be for it (for the first time), not that I have any pull besides one vote. :)

It is just not this simple. Cost of capital, labor, IT systems, plane delivery, plane retirement schedules, fuel, etc etc

I don't think Tulsa's growth is only Allegiant. They've added all of American's hubs they didn't already have in the last few months. They now have equal service to OKC on American.

And maybe airlines don't care about making MORE money. MOST businesses do. If the fares are the same to all of said cities, then what you say is correct. But, for instance, if the fare from DEN to TUL is $200 and DEN to OKC is $400, why don't they shift one flight a day to OKC? It would help them raise fares in TUL and they may not even need to lower them in OKC because of the demand. In this example, I just use TUL because I often see significantly cheaper fares from there than OKC. If airlines can't figure out this basic microeconomic principle then next time they need a bail out I won't be for it (for the first time), not that I have any pull besides one vote. :)

There is a reason OKC has almost a million more passengers. Bigger planes, higher frequencies, etc.

But OKC needs to add SFO back, and add Boston. With those, most bases will be covered. Adding more frequencies would be helpful, as well.

I don't think Tulsa's growth is only Allegiant. They've added all of American's hubs they didn't already have in the last few months. They now have equal service to OKC on American.

And maybe airlines don't care about making MORE money. MOST businesses do. If the fares are the same to all of said cities, then what you say is correct. But, for instance, if the fare from DEN to TUL is $200 and DEN to OKC is $400, why don't they shift one flight a day to OKC? It would help them raise fares in TUL and they may not even need to lower them in OKC because of the demand. In this example, I just use TUL because I often see significantly cheaper fares from there than OKC. If airlines can't figure out this basic microeconomic principle then next time they need a bail out I won't be for it (for the first time), not that I have any pull besides one vote. :)

Funny you used DEN as an example. Fares to DEN are higher from TUL because of Frontier's exit on the route (and Tulsa market). Having Frontier on the route keeps fares lower on Southwest and United.

And what do you suggest that OKC do to work on it that they aren't doing?

you obviously didn't read my post where I recommended the city offer incentive to new routes and to re-establish routes to previously served key hubs. AND I also recommended the city do more than just incentivize OKC residents through advertising, but that we also offer ads to the other end of the route to promote OKC in that market. The incentives could run for a predetermined time or until a market target is met.

the city is not doing this currently, so THAT is my recommendation. clear now?

Current top Southwest airports by # of departures - service from OKC:
DEN 304
LAS 277
MDW 260
BWI 219
DAL 208
PHX 200
HOU 169
MCO 169
BNA 162
STL 129

you obviously didn't read my post where I recommended the city offer incentive to new routes and to re-establish routes to previously served key hubs. AND I also recommended the city do more than just incentivize OKC residents through advertising, but that we also offer ads to the other end of the route to promote OKC in that market. The incentives could run for a predetermined time or until a market target is met.

the city is not doing this currently, so THAT is my recommendation. clear now?

So you have inside knowledge about what they are doing? They deal with this daily and are well aware of what might work and what won't. And promoting flights to OKC in other cities seems like a big stretch to improve any chance that an airline will add seats. That's what is clear to me.,

there doesn't appear to be any of this taking place, which is why I mentioned it on this public forum in response to your question of what OKC could be doing that they 'apparently' aren't doing.

Promoting flights TO OKC in other cities is exactly what we should be doing with our tax monies. You may not think it makes a difference but I have seen many cities promoted here in Seattle, some smaller than OKC, it's something we could do for a period of time to help re-establish service to, say SFO.

there doesn't appear to be any of this taking place, which is why I mentioned it on this public forum in response to your question of what OKC could be doing that they 'apparently' aren't doing.

Promoting flights TO OKC in other cities is exactly what we should be doing with our tax monies. You may not think it makes a difference but I have seen many cities promoted here in Seattle, some smaller than OKC, it's something we could do for a period of time to help re-establish service to, say SFO.

Well, we'll agree to disagree then. I'll trust the professionals who do this every day versus your casual observations. And if you're saying it would help to promote travel to OKC from other cities when nonstop flights don't currently exist, I think that would be a waste of money to do that to try to convince an airline to reestablish a nonstop flight. People in San Francisco aren't going to see a billboard about OKC and suddenly decide that they want to go. And even if that actually happened the numbers would be minimal. OIKC has previously promoted nonstop flights to other cities here and that makes sense when the flights already exist.

It's not just about getting a city. You have to look at the bigger picture for how it benefits the airline.

SFO: Worked good enough to maintain service on United for over a decade before the pandemic. United's transpacific hub took a complete gutting during the COVID crisis and still has not recovered. Under this same time frame tourism to the Bay Area plummeted upon negative press of homelessness -- now we are seeing a market correction of the tech space. This is no longer a good international market out of OKC, nor a domestic business or leisure market. UA no longer can ride on the "chugging along" of the pre-pandemic economy of the bay area which had tremendous Trans-pacific demand as well as healthy leisure and domestic business demand. Markets like OKC can no longer generate the traffic to SFO on those conditions to be worth 9 hours of aircraft and crew time in an extremely stretched thin resource pool.

BOS: Everyone wants Delta to serve it but let's be realistic they have had bigger fish to fry forever in relation to the OKC market. They have had only a token presence in OKC for as long as I can remember. Service to the hubs on equipment and frequency that adequately serves the market. LGA is the only add they have had in OKC in more than 3 decades, and it's uncertain at this point how committed they are to that.

PDX: Diet San Francisco. A pre-pandemic strong market for Asian demand, and an attractive leisure station. Positioned close to SEA it has long been a relief valve for Alaska's Seattle hub operation. It suffers from all of the same issues as San Francisco but on a proportionate scale. Leisure traffic would be the prime driver of a PDX flight and it would only be likely to happen in lieu of a second SEA flight, or possibly at the expense of the mainline flight to Seattle. I don't see either as incredibly likely at this point in time as it is a long and thin route. Aircraft and crew time at all airlines is at a huge premium and a 9-10 hour chunk of a flight crew and airplane is a huge opportunity cost at any airline. Traffic on this route would consist of a large chunk of low-yield connections. If I am Alaska, do I send an E175 on this route to serve 40 local passengers a day, and fill the other 36 seats with junk fares on low-yield connections to Yakima? I can forget the route all together and use the airplane and crew to make 2 round trips to somewhere closer to PDX. It's a hard sell on the top floor. If the market environment were more favorable it would be a viable route.

JFK: Every airport wants these 3 letters in their portfolio. Servicing this route requires a VERY strong international demand for a certain partner airline or certain routes over the pond. This is a route where you bypass DFW or ATL to get on a partner airline to Rome, Moscow, or any number of European business destinations where club access and schedule are the only important factors. Price is no object. Not going to happen for OKC.

What else is really left? OKC is incredibly well serves to all of the major cities in the country. The equipment or times may not be 100% ideal but you can get to most of the major airports nonstop on a major air carrier. Things can always be better but I really fail to see any huge holes that aren't typical for an airport the size of OKC.

I’ve wondered if Southwest would ever try a couple California routes like OAK, where they have a sizable operation, or LAX to compete with American. I noticed COS recently picked up LGB on Southwest.