I think you might be referring to 94th Aero Squadron, which was part of a chain of WWI-themed restaurants across the country which positioned themselves strategically so diners had runway views. I remember the one at STL growing up (there's a photo of the one at Stapleton here, too (tinyUrl): https://rb.gy/10t8x

Yes, that's it. I only ate there once but I certainly recognize it.

Just a report that we flew American on the direct from DCA yesterday and it was great. Pretty new A320 that was completely full. We got a nice meal on the flight (we splurged with points and were in FC) and WRWA was very busy when we arrived at 3:45 or so. Really encouraging to have a direct flight like that into OKC.

Still growing. AA kills it as always.

https://flyokc.com/sites/default/files/August%202023%20Enplanement_0.pdf

Just a report that we flew American on the direct from DCA yesterday and it was great. Pretty new A320 that was completely full. We got a nice meal on the flight (we splurged with points and were in FC) and WRWA was very busy when we arrived at 3:45 or so. Really encouraging to have a direct flight like that into OKC.

That checks out with my experience. I went to California in May and the security line early morning on a Saturday was nearly out of the que. Great to see the airport so busy. My American flights were both full. I really think they have the best network out of OKC and really the only major hub we are missing from them is Philadelphia. Great to see the route and equipment upgrade to Miami. They aren't a perfect operation in the least bit(none are of course) but I like what they are offering to OKC residents to getting where they want/need to go.

wish we didn't have the declines in Delta, Alaska, and Allegient.

wish we didn't have the declines in Delta, Alaska, and Allegient.

I'd probably blame the airport director.

Breeze restarted TUL-MSY today. 2x/weekly (F-M). This is the third time TUL-MSY has been tried in the past 5 years (Allegiant, Breeze, Breeze again) hopefully it sticks and OKC-MSY is added. I have not flown Breeze yet, almost booked TUL-BNA but then they ended that route…

September out. Great month.

https://flyokc.com/sites/default/files/September%202023%20Enplanement.pdf

Compare to 2019, will how much United is down. AA, Southwest and Frontier leading the growth.
https://flyokc.com/sites/default/files/News/September2019Enplanement.pdf

I wonder where the Allegiant data went. Also, I am guessing the drop in United data is tied to the pilot shortage they are going through. I am sure Catch22 can chime in there. But, looking at the data shows that there's a lot of interest in OKC for growth, but the airlines need to go after it. Right now, American and Frontier seem to be the ones going after it. I am sure at some point United and Delta will step up their aggressiveness

Catch has posted dozens of times they are at capacity. Only so many planes and pilots. The only growth in OKC will come from other cities having routes cut. So then it becomes what each individual airline is focused on as a matter of corporate strategy. AA & SWA have a definite focus on OKC. United and Delta are focused elsewhere. (and please read with nuance, its not 100% ignoring or it's written on a whiteboard at the CEO's office). Others are somewhere in the middle.

And no the airport director cold calling CEOs or VPs offering subsidies isn't going to do a thing when airlines are already making huge profits.

When OKC gets a new route if it performs it stays, if it doesn't it'll go away. Like AA with the Miami seasonal, if it performs well it likely becomes year round.

No idea why Allegiant isn't on there

I'm just thrilled to be on a 739 to DEN tomorrow on UA. It's a start.

GoPokes88: Correct. The airport director cold calling won't help and isn't necessary .

However, looking at the regionals, there are a number of aircraft parked right now (according to cirium). Skywest has 118 jets currently parked. Endeavor (Delta) has 98 jets parked. AirWisconsin has 16 jets parked. CommutAir has 42 jets parked. Mesa has 43 jets parked. I don't know the exact reason for the parked jets, but it would seem that the pilot shortage is possibly the reason and that the pilot shortage is affecting regionals. While mainline is different than regionals, it seems that United, which has a total of 800+ mainline aircraft, is adding more mainline aircraft in the coming years. Not sure what the net add will be with some airplanes going into retirement, but hopefully we'll see an increase in available seats in OKC.

catch has posted dozens of times they are at capacity. Only so many planes and pilots. The only growth in okc will come from other cities having routes cut. So then it becomes what each individual airline is focused on as a matter of corporate strategy. Aa & swa have a definite focus on okc. United and delta are focused elsewhere. (and please read with nuance, its not 100% ignoring or it's written on a whiteboard at the ceo's office). Others are somewhere in the middle.

And no the airport director cold calling ceos or vps offering subsidies isn't going to do a thing when airlines are already making huge profits.

When okc gets a new route if it performs it stays, if it doesn't it'll go away. Like aa with the miami seasonal, if it performs well it likely becomes year round.

No idea why allegiant isn't on there

where is our airport director?!?!?

where is our airport director?!?!?

Getting his pilot's license then demanding SWA add a direct to (insert random place someone in okc wants a direct too)

GoPokes88: Correct. The airport director cold calling won't help and isn't necessary .

However, looking at the regionals, there are a number of aircraft parked right now (according to cirium). Skywest has 118 jets currently parked. Endeavor (Delta) has 98 jets parked. AirWisconsin has 16 jets parked. CommutAir has 42 jets parked. Mesa has 43 jets parked. I don't know the exact reason for the parked jets, but it would seem that the pilot shortage is possibly the reason and that the pilot shortage is affecting regionals. While mainline is different than regionals, it seems that United, which has a total of 800+ mainline aircraft, is adding more mainline aircraft in the coming years. Not sure what the net add will be with some airplanes going into retirement, but hopefully we'll see an increase in available seats in OKC.

That's probably shortage. Regional's are the minor leagues for mainline. That's where the shortage is first felt.

I'm just thrilled to be on a 739 to DEN tomorrow on UA. It's a start.

And every single seat occupied on a Tuesday evening flight.

I'm just thrilled to be on a 739 to DEN tomorrow on UA. It's a start.
And then a shameful excuse of a commercial aircraft CRJ200 back to OKC.

And then a shameful excuse of a commercial aircraft CRJ200 back to OKC.

I hate those CRJ-200s so much

I hate those CRJ-200s so much

You're not alone....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ah2Nh3E6_5A

With the recent changes to Delta's loyalty program, I am going free agent after years of diamond or platinum status with Delta. Which airlines are flying the CRJ200s into OKC? Any suggestions as to best airlines to fly and why you feel that way. American always seems cheaper but seems they cancel a lot of flights. I like the connections on United but their newer seats don't seem comfortable. First world problems but also hate that you only get a choice of water or juice for a predeparture drink when in first class. Of course with Delta....it has become a 50-50 shot of a predeparture drink at all.

I had a couple AA flights over the summer. The frequency of okc-dfw is nice. Also I had some miles from a Barclay's AA card, I found a couple cheap legs.
I used to use delta through MSP, but they've cut that frequency and the prices are very high.
Also having cap1 lounge in dfw is great.

With the recent changes to Delta's loyalty program, I am going free agent after years of diamond or platinum status with Delta. Which airlines are flying the CRJ200s into OKC? Any suggestions as to best airlines to fly and why you feel that way. American always seems cheaper but seems they cancel a lot of flights. I like the connections on United but their newer seats don't seem comfortable. First world problems but also hate that you only get a choice of water or juice for a predeparture drink when in first class. Of course with Delta....it has become a 50-50 shot of a predeparture drink at all.

seems like they walked back some of the proposed changes

https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/travel/delta-rolls-back-skymiles-changes-after-customer-backlash

AA is the way to go in OKC right now. Nice frequencies and times to all thier hubs. Many of them are on main lines as well.

It would be nice if Southwest offered flights from OKC to the Hollywood-Burbank Airport.

It would be nice if Southwest offered flights from OKC to the Hollywood-Burbank Airport.

We have flown into and out of Long Beach and Santa Ana. Both great airports. Would love directs into there, but most of the connections there would be through Denver or phoenix.

We have flown into and out of Long Beach and Santa Ana. Both great airports. Would love directs into there, but most of the connections there would be through Denver or phoenix.
Do you think there’s a chance OKC could ever get a direct connection to one of those airports? Even if it was Long Beach, I would be fine with that. I would just take the a line to 7th metro and then connect with the B line. Though I would prefer Hollywood Burbank. Hell I’d be happy with Ontario. Anything to not have to deal with LAX.

Maybe that experience will change the automated people Mover and K line station comes online. Currently I either use flyaway or Uber. It’s too much of a pain in the ass to use the metro rail right now.

At least there is non-stop to LAX. What about non-stop to Boston?

Do you think there’s a chance OKC could ever get a direct connection to one of those airports? Even if it was Long Beach, I would be fine with that. I would just take the a line to 7th metro and then connect with the B line. Though I would prefer Hollywood Burbank. Hell I’d be happy with Ontario. Anything to not have to deal with LAX.

Maybe that experience will change the automated people Mover and K line station comes online. Currently I either use flyaway or Uber. It’s too much of a pain in the ass to use the metro rail right now.

Probably not anytime soon. We have direct flights to LAX and Phoenix, Vegas and Denver offer flights to Santa Ana and Long Beach multiple times a day so I would think they would stick to that for now.

I am not sure how the hierarchy of adding flights work, but I would guess all flights to LAX would have to be full and then the airlines would add more flights or maybe a larger plane and then they would look at expanding to direct flights to LGB or SNA.

At least there is non-stop to LAX. What about non-stop to Boston?

Hey, there's the correct term usage! Nonstop versus direct. I know I am a stickler on that, but there is a difference, folks. If you want to use the industry terminology, nonstop is the correct term for no stops to a destination. Direct means same plane service between two destinations, but there may be a stop[s] involved. Southwest does this the most often these days. I was on a direct flight to OKC from Steamboat Springs in June, with just a stopover in DEN. It was great! But if I said I was on a direct flight from Steamboat Springs (Hayden to be accurate) to OKC some people on here might call me a liar! Haha. I hope the term nonstop can catch on in our discussions about air service here. I know, I know, "Get a life, man", but I just like precision in communication, sorry.

That terminology choice is just awful. I looked up the reason, and it is super dated and basically non-applicable to modern air transport.


The term “direct” became popular in the early days of commercial air travel, when propeller aircraft had to hop-scotch around the country, or even a region, in order to travel from point A to point B. They were marketed as “direct" services in that they flew between major destinations, stopping along the way for fuel or passengers, but required no plane changes or separate tickets.

Why doesn't the industry just change it to be Non-Stop and No-Change? That has actual clarification.

Is this another one of those "It has to be OAK instead of OKC because it always has been" things?

Breeze is discontinuing its TUL service and will be completely out of Oklahoma as of Nov 27.

18406

Didn't those TUL-MSY flights literally just start up recently?

This is why they are struggling.

Didn't those TUL-MSY flights literally just start up recently?

This is why they are struggling.

Yep, I was at TUL when they had their "second" first flight in September. Breeze flew to MSY then canceled it, then brought it back and now canceled it again. I was booked on their Nashville flight in 2022 but it also was canceled before I could actually fly it. I like the strategy, which is similar to Allegiant and Frontier, but they need more consistency to gain any kind of following.

Just listened to an interview with the CEO of Southwest on CNBC. He said they'll be cutting capacity by quite a bit for early 2024. Citing business travel has not returned to pre-Covid era.

From WRWA FB page:

You now have more options next summer with Southwest Airlines! Southwest has increased daily seasonal service to BNA; LAS has increased to 3x daily M-F; MDW increased to 2x on Saturday and Sunday’s and STL increased Saturday service to 2x. Thank you Southwest Airlines! #fly_okc

From WRWA FB page:

You now have more options next summer with Southwest Airlines! Southwest has increased daily seasonal service to BNA; LAS has increased to 3x daily M-F; MDW increased to 2x on Saturday and Sunday’s and STL increased Saturday service to 2x. Thank you Southwest Airlines! #fly_okc

Not bad at all!

Not bad at all!

Yeah, those STL and MDW increased frequencies will make it easier for east coast connections for sure.

Yeah, those STL and MDW increased frequencies will make it easier for east coast connections for sure.

Yep! Would be nice for Baltimore to start up again. Get that, EWR, and DTW, and, less likely, Boston, and then the east coast and eastern US is set for OKC.

Southwest doesn’t seem to be building up Baltimore in favor of other hubs. Is there construction, gates, landing slots or something else limiting growth there? BNA has really good East Coast connections and is a great connecting point for Florida especially the Gulf beach towns. I wish Southwest would add TUL-BNA now that Breeze has left (at least temporarily)

Southwest doesn’t seem to be building up Baltimore in favor of other hubs. Is there construction, gates, landing slots or something else limiting growth there? BNA has really good East Coast connections and is a great connecting point for Florida especially the Gulf beach towns. I wish Southwest would add TUL-BNA now that Breeze has left (at least temporarily)

SWA avoids hubs. If an airport starts being used that way expect them to cut service. Same reason they pull the OKC to dallas Love flights.

From WRWA FB page:

You now have more options next summer with Southwest Airlines! Southwest has increased daily seasonal service to BNA; LAS has increased to 3x daily M-F; MDW increased to 2x on Saturday and Sunday’s and STL increased Saturday service to 2x. Thank you Southwest Airlines! #fly_okc

The post above talked about Southwest cutting back in 2024, good to see we absorbed some.

SWA avoids hubs. If an airport starts being used that way expect them to cut service. Same reason they pull the OKC to dallas Love flights.

They may not have hubs, but they have hubs. I mean, there are aboutn10 or 12 airports for them that are "focus" cities, which are basically hubs. They travel everywhere.

They may not have hubs, but they have hubs. I mean, there are aboutn10 or 12 airports for them that are "focus" cities, which are basically hubs. They travel everywhere.

Right but if too many pax on the route are connecting, they'll drop the route and allocate elsewhere. We literally watched them do it OKC to Love.

Right but if too many pax on the route are connecting, they'll drop the route and allocate elsewhere. We literally watched them do it OKC to Love.

I know. I still think it's dumb they did that, but it fits their model (which, until last year, hadn't really failed miserably).

In this case, it was the start of DCA flights (and the pandemic, too) that killed BWI flights. The Congressional delegation undoubtedly fought hard for DCA flights and a midsize market like OKC could not command or sustain flights on the same airline to two airports in the same market. And I'm not sure the whole "avoiding hubs strategy" is as set in stone for Southwest today as it once was. No, they don't fly to some fortress hubs (like DFW and IAH) but they do at DEN, ATL, CLT, PHX, MSP, DTW, SFO, SLC, SEA and even ORD now. BWI is their own hub, and I haven't heard anything about them cutting ops there.

In this case, it was the start of DCA flights (and the pandemic, too) that killed BWI flights. The Congressional delegation undoubtedly fought hard for DCA flights and a midsize market like OKC could not command or sustain flights on the same airline to two airports in the same market. And I'm not sure the whole "avoiding hubs strategy" is as set in stone for Southwest today as it once was. No, they don't fly to some fortress hubs (like DFW and IAH) but they do at DEN, ATL, CLT, PHX, MSP, DTW, SFO, SLC, SEA and even ORD now. BWI is their own hub, and I haven't heard anything about them cutting ops there.

You're conflating 2 different things.

When SWA evaluates a route a they want a certain % of the pax to be direct, if it doesn't hit those metrics they cut the route.

The airports you listed are big enough the % of passengers meet their hurdles for direct flights. Turns into a de facto hub, but each route has to stand on its own.

That terminology choice is just awful. I looked up the reason, and it is super dated and basically non-applicable to modern air transport.



Why doesn't the industry just change it to be Non-Stop and No-Change? That has actual clarification.

Is this another one of those "It has to be OAK instead of OKC because it always has been" things?

Why change what is already easy to understand?

Massive cuts in Austin via AA. Bummer

https://onemileatatime.com/news/american-airlines-axes-austin-flights/

Massive cuts in Austin via AA. Bummer

https://onemileatatime.com/news/american-airlines-axes-austin-flights/

This seems very odd considering Austin's explosive growth.

This seems very odd considering Austin's explosive growth.

The article mentions how the growth seems to be slowing (at least based off the price of housing lowering precipitously). OKC-AUS is one of those "made for Southwest" routes. American is a hub and spoke airline, and Austin will never be a connector airport.

AUS-TUL on AA also cut for the winter season. Hopefully Southwest now goes 2x/daily from OKC and TUL with a morning and evening departure.

I am guessing demand is down in Austin overall. As I've been booking AA flights I've noticed connecting flights through AUS often being the cheapest or among the cheapest of all options. This was not the case 6+ months ago. If it was an OKC-specific problem they would be cutting that route, but since they are cutting so much AUS, demand must be way down. And if they didn't need those planes elsewhere they would probably stick it out (it's not like the fares are trash), but so many planes were retired during the pandemic, and there's a shortage of pilots, that if an airline has planes and pilots they've got to send them to the place of most demand. I don't think that's AUS based on the cheap connections through there.

I wonder if AA will add another flight to DFW or increase aircraft elsewhere to offset the end of this route.

This seems very odd considering Austin's explosive growth.

Been a tough year for AA. They just posted a Q3 loss of $545 million, stock price has dropped about 40% since July, the JetBlue alliance got shut down by the feds and now the AUS expansion has turned out to be a money-loser.

Most of the AUS expansion AA implemented is/was operated by their regional airline partners, which have capacity contraints and scope clauses imposed by the APA. It appears almost all of the cuts are flown by their regional airline partners, only 2 by mainline AA.

Good news for the dominant airline at AUS, SW, though.

A320 to and from DEN this week on UA. Improvement.

How American Airlines Pilots Took Down The Austin Focus City

https://viewfromthewing.com/how-american-airlines-pilots-took-down-the-austin-focus-city/

That’s super interesting about Austin and AA

On a few of the Austin flights back to OKC, which were all a little delayed, the pilots actually called out the airport and AA for having too many flights in and out of there. He said, "When you call into AA and complain about us being late, you tell them the caption told you to tell them that" lol

Looking at flight schedules, it looks like Allegiant will bring back the SFB (Orlando, Daytona Beach) flight on May 29 and will run Fridays and Mondays at first, then most days before it ends August 5.

Considering how dominant AA is in this market, this is cause for concern.
https://fortune.com/2023/11/11/tailspin-american-airlines-stock-debt-travel-outlook/amp/