I can't seem to locate actual statistics, but it appears the age of most of the shooters is incredibly young -and all males. I would like to know from a trained psychoanalyst what's happening in these young males to tragically kill so many people. While the shootings at LGBT locations appears to be hate crimes -what about all the school shootings and the age of the shooters?

What's going inside the head/hearts of these young guys?

I can't seem to locate actual statistics, but it appears the age of most of the shooters is incredibly young -and all males. I would like to know from a trained psychoanalyst what's happening in these young males to tragically kill so many people. While the shootings at LGBT locations appears to be hate crimes -what about all the school shootings and the age of the shooters?

What's going inside the head/hearts of these young guys?

lack of masculinity .. and the nuclear family

lack of masculinity .. and the nuclear family

But didn't the "parents" of one of the shooters know/purchase the gun used in the shooting? But you bring up a good point to consider parental skills/involvement with some of the shooters.

lack of masculinity .. and the nuclear family

Unreal.

lack of masculinity .. and the nuclear family

This has to be sarcasm.

I can't seem to locate actual statistics, but it appears the age of most of the shooters is incredibly young -and all males. I would like to know from a trained psychoanalyst what's happening in these young males to tragically kill so many people. While the shootings at LGBT locations appears to be hate crimes -what about all the school shootings and the age of the shooters?

What's going inside the head/hearts of these young guys?

I’ve always wondered if a generation that grew up playing video games that are largely shooting people has had any impact on this.

lack of masculinity .. and the nuclear family

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I’ve always wondered if a generation that grew up playing video games that are largely shooting people has had any impact on this.

No. If this were the case we'd see similar shootings in Japan and Western Europe, which play the same games at the same rates as here in the US.

It's the guns.

It's more than "it's the guns"....right? I think we have to take into account social environment along with mental health.

It's more than "it's the guns"....right? I think we have to take into account social environment along with mental health.
It has to be. I've thinned the herd a lot the last few years but at times I've had more than 20 guns and thousands of rounds of ammo. The most I've ever shot is paper. Or cans/bottles/trash when we used to go out to the country to shoot. Yes, the gun is necessary for these violent shootings but so is a mental disorder of some kind.

It's more than "it's the guns"....right? I think we have to take into account social environment along with mental health.

Toxic masculinity.

The guns are just a convenient/effective tool.... We've been killing each other since we appeared on this planet... You just hear about it faster now.

Can it be stopped? I doubt it. We've been on this planet 300,000 years and aren't even close to figuring out how to.

It's more than "it's the guns"....right? I think we have to take into account social environment along with mental health.

Not really. Most other developed democracies have the same mental health issues we do, a similar social environment, play the same video games, listen to the same kind of music, have similar rates of divorce/broken families, etc. We are the only developed democracy on earth with the massively high level of mass shootings that we experience.

It's the guns.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/25/world/europe/gun-laws-australia-britain.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/07/world/americas/mass-shootings-us-international.html

The guns are just a convenient/effective tool.... We've been killing each other since we appeared on this planet... You just hear about it faster now.

Can it be stopped? I doubt it. We've been on this planet 300,000 years and aren't even close to figuring out how to.

It would appear that Austrailia has indeed figured it out.
These are significant numbers and to argue 2A does nothing to refute the cause in our country.

Australia confiscated 650,000 guns. Murders and suicides plummeted. - Vox
https://www.vox.com/2015/8/27/9212725/australia-buyback

It would appear that Austrailia has indeed figured it out.
These are significant numbers and to argue 2A does nothing to refute the cause in our country.

Australia confiscated 650,000 guns. Murders and suicides plummeted. - Vox
https://www.vox.com/2015/8/27/9212725/australia-buyback

ok so amend the constitution and then we can use that solution ..

It would appear that Austrailia has indeed figured it out.
These are significant numbers and to argue 2A does nothing to refute the cause in our country.

Australia confiscated 650,000 guns. Murders and suicides plummeted. - Vox
https://www.vox.com/2015/8/27/9212725/australia-buyback

The mass shooting number differences are hard to argue with but it doesn’t say anything about mass homicides in general after that time period which I think would’ve been important to include in the article. That article also doesn’t discuss much about the murder and suicide trends in the 20-30 year time prior to the gun buy backs going into effect which I think is fairly important in determining a cause and effect relationship (ie was this the beginning of the trend or was it already in a fairly significant decline beforehand). They should’ve further broken it down into murders and suicides by gun and by other methods. I guess my point being, if that article is trying to convince anyone other than the people who already agree with them that guns are the problem, it isn’t very convincing and has a bunch of holes that could’ve easily been filled if they’d either done more research or chosen to include the additional statistics.

Also something that none of the anti-gun posters have addressed. We’ve always had a ton of guns but why the uptick in large scale mass shootings, school shootings in particular, after the late 1980s?

It would appear that Austrailia has indeed figured it out.


No... No they haven't... They may have lessened the problem by removing an effective tool but they have not solved the problem.

As I said. We have been killing each other for 300,000 years.... Or if you are a Christian a little over 2000 years ago when Cain killed Able. Regardless a long time before guns were invented.

Humans have put a lot of time and thought into better ways to kill each other over the centuries... If only we could have put all that time and effort into how to get along without violence... Maybe we could have found the answer by now.

I mean I can't speak for everyone else, but I would welcome " lessening the problem" . it might not fix it completely but if it saves some lives seems worth it.

No... No they haven't... They may have lessened the problem by removing an effective tool but they have not solved the problem.

As I said. We have been killing each other for 300,000 years.... Or if you are a Christian a little over 2000 years ago when Cain killed Able. Regardless a long time before guns were invented.

Humans have put a lot of time and thought into better ways to kill each other over the centuries... If only we could have put all that time and effort into how to get along without violence... Maybe we could have found the answer by now.

It seems you are saying good is the enemy of perfect.

The mass shooting number differences are hard to argue with but it doesn’t say anything about mass homicides in general after that time period which I think would’ve been important to include in the article. That article also doesn’t discuss much about the murder and suicide trends in the 20-30 year time prior to the gun buy backs going into effect which I think is fairly important in determining a cause and effect relationship (ie was this the beginning of the trend or was it already in a fairly significant decline beforehand). They should’ve further broken it down into murders and suicides by gun and by other methods. I guess my point being, if that article is trying to convince anyone other than the people who already agree with them that guns are the problem, it isn’t very convincing and has a bunch of holes that could’ve easily been filled if they’d either done more research or chosen to include the additional statistics.

Also something that none of the anti-gun posters have addressed. We’ve always had a ton of guns but why the uptick in large scale mass shootings, school shootings in particular, after the late 1980s?

While we had "tons of guns" prior to the last 30 years, the proliferation of more carry guns everywhere with no limits is a recent phenomana.

I mean I can't speak for everyone else, but I would welcome " lessening the problem" . it might not fix it completely but if it saves some lives seems worth it.

Short of banning or taking guns, I’m all for adding well thought out regulations that actually have been researched and stand a reasonable chance of helping.

While we had "tons of guns" prior to the last 30 years, the proliferation of more carry guns everywhere with no limits is a recent phenomana.

What limitations were placed on “carry guns” before that have been removed and led to all the mass shootings?

Also what do you consider a carry gun?

I mean I can't speak for everyone else, but I would welcome " lessening the problem" . it might not fix it completely but if it saves some lives seems worth it.

I'm not against lessening it either because I don't believe it can ever be stopped.

The human brain is the most dangerous weapon on this planet though. Once it is set on murder. There are a myriad of ways to accomplish it..... Timothy McVeigh is one of the best examples.

‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens (https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-r-1849807678)

It seems you are saying good is the enemy of perfect.

No... I'm saying good probably won't be good enough.

While we had "tons of guns" prior to the last 30 years, the proliferation of more carry guns everywhere with no limits is a recent phenomana.True. But how many cases can you cite where a legally carrying person did a mass shooting. Or any non self defensive shooting. I could just be blocking them out but I can't think of many if any.

What limitations were placed on “carry guns” before that have been removed and led to all the mass shootings?

Also what do you consider a carry gun?

It wasnt that long ago that we had a national assault weapon ban, up until 2006 I think. I dont recall many mass shootings during that time, lots more have happened since.

It wasnt that long ago that we had a national assault weapon ban, up until 2006 I think. I dont recall many mass shootings during that time, lots more have happened since.

assault weapons have always been banned and still are

If we could lower our homicide and mass shooting rate to that of say, France, Australia, Britain, and other countries, I would definitely qualify that as good enough. No one is saying that we are going to stop all murder, but we can do is prevent mass shootings at the rate we currently them.

True. But how many cases can you cite where a legally carrying person did a mass shooting. Or any non self defensive shooting. I could just be blocking them out but I can't think of many if any.

I think the last one bought guns legally.

If we could lower our homicide and mass shooting rate to that of say, France, Australia, Britain, and other countries, I would definitely qualify that as good enough. No one is saying that we are going to stop all murder, but we can do is prevent mass shootings at the rate we currently them.

mass shootings account for a very very small % of gun violence in the USA

No... No they haven't... They may have lessened the problem by removing an effective tool but they have not solved the problem.

As I said. We have been killing each other for 300,000 years.... Or if you are a Christian a little over 2000 years ago when Cain killed Able. Regardless a long time before guns were invented.

Humans have put a lot of time and thought into better ways to kill each other over the centuries... If only we could have put all that time and effort into how to get along without violence... Maybe we could have found the answer by now.

Well, it is human nature so let's just supply them with all the tools they need and make it legal. Only in America does this gun hysteria rule. Ironically these days, it seems the Christian right is leading the charge for giving everyone a clear path.

If we could lower our homicide and mass shooting rate to that of say, France, Australia, Britain, and other countries, I would definitely qualify that as good enough. No one is saying that we are going to stop all murder, but we can do is prevent mass shootings at the rate we currently them.

Ok... So don't fix the problem.... Just make it less problematic.... Until someone comes up with another way to kill people that is.

So let's say we ban guns (I'm actually not opposed to that despite what most of you probably thought).... Next trend I'm seeing is vehicles. They are easy to get and inflict mass amounts of damage. Are we going to give up our cars when that happens?

‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens (https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-r-1849807678)

File under that theory of American Exceptionalism

Ok... So don't fix the problem.... Just make it less problematic.... Until someone comes up with another way to kill people that is.

So let's say we ban guns (I'm actually not opposed to that despite what most of you probably thought).... Next trend I'm seeing is vehicles. They are easy to get and inflict mass amounts of damage. Are we going to give up our cars when that happens?

Is that what you see in other first world countries? I did not know that.

I think part of the issue is the style of parenting and also the lack of recess time at schools. Growing up in the 70s/80s we were playing hard at recess, even tackle football. It was just a regular day when one of us came in with a bloody nose from tackling. These things, including fights at school, teach kids how to deal with pressure, fighting/settling differences, responsibility, and social interaction. Recess is the perfect outlet of the male testosterone/internal aggression, otherwise it's all pent up inside if you don't have an outlet like afternoon sports, etc. But even if you didn't play after school sports, everyone participated in a half-hour of recess and usually outside. The profiles of a lot of these shooters are loners, they have no sports or any other natural aggression release, or they're always inside on computers, etc. We need to go back to the days of letting boys be boys. That being said, I don't think this is the only contributing factor but we really think there's a connection in all of this.

assault weapons have always been banned and still areWhat are usually called assault weapons like AK47s and AR15s and/or clones are readily available at most any store that sells guns.

I think the last one bought guns legally.
I did say not many.

Ok... So don't fix the problem.... Just make it less problematic.... Until someone comes up with another way to kill people that is.

So let's say we ban guns (I'm actually not opposed to that despite what most of you probably thought).... Next trend I'm seeing is vehicles. They are easy to get and inflict mass amounts of damage. Are we going to give up our cars when that happens?

The problem is mass shootings at a scale we don’t see in any other developed country. That solution is gun control. Saying we shouldn’t do this because it won’t solve all murders or because cars can somehow kill people is just asinine and not conducive to discussion.

The problem is mass shootings at a scale we don’t see in any other developed country. That solution is gun control. Saying we shouldn’t do this because it won’t solve all murders or because cars can somehow kill people is just asinine and not conducive to discussion.How long would it take for gun control to work? If the US even took COMPLETELY unconstitutional measures and required everyone to relinquish their guns and ammunition the number of people that wouldn't abide by the ruling would leave plenty of guns and ammunition for gun violence to carry on for the foreseeable future.
I would be one of them. We live in an area that had 200k houses before the COVID craziness and the last few years there have been more and more break ins and attempted break ins. I have issues that are making me less and less mobile every year. I'm not giving up my ability to protect myself and the love of my life.

Is that what you see in other first world countries? I did not know that.

Well now you do. No thanks needed.

The problem is mass shootings at a scale we don’t see in any other developed country. That solution is gun control. Saying we shouldn’t do this because it won’t solve all murders or because cars can somehow kill people is just asinine and not conducive to discussion.

You mean you can't counter my argument so you attempt to ridicule and demean it to make it less viable?

I think part of the issue is the style of parenting and also the lack of recess time at schools. Growing up in the 70s/80s we were playing hard at recess, even tackle football. It was just a regular day when one of us came in with a bloody nose from tackling. These things, including fights at school, teach kids how to deal with pressure, fighting/settling differences, responsibility, and social interaction. Recess is the perfect outlet of the male testosterone/internal aggression, otherwise it's all pent up inside if you don't have an outlet like afternoon sports, etc. But even if you didn't play after school sports, everyone participated in a half-hour of recess and usually outside. The profiles of a lot of these shooters are loners, they have no sports or any other natural aggression release, or they're always inside on computers, etc. We need to go back to the days of letting boys be boys. That being said, I don't think this is the only contributing factor but we really think there's a connection in all of this.

The 70's and 80s had incredibly high violent crime/murder rates compared to what we have now. I doubt anyone wants to go back to those days. Definitely not an era we should look to for best practices. Also, sports and recess still exist?

It wasnt that long ago that we had a national assault weapon ban, up until 2006 I think. I dont recall many mass shootings during that time, lots more have happened since.

Off the top of my head, Columbine and the Edmond post office shootings both happened well before that was repealed or allowed to expire or whatever happened to it. Also I’m not sure the percentage but think well over half of the mass shootings since then have been carried out with weapons that wouldn’t have been covered by it.

In the cases where the shooters weapon of choice would’ve been covered by the ban, do you think that wouldn’t have chosen to carry out the shootings if those weapons weren’t available? Or do you think they would’ve just chosen a similar gun or other means to carry out the attack?

Do you the availability of those weapons is what inspired or caused those shooters to attack people?

Off the top of my head, Columbine and the Edmond post office shootings both happened well before that was repealed or allowed to expire or whatever happened to it. Also I’m not sure the percentage but think well over half of the mass shootings since then have been carried out with weapons that wouldn’t have been covered by it.

In the cases where the shooters weapon of choice would’ve been covered by the ban, do you think that wouldn’t have chosen to carry out the shootings if those weapons weren’t available? Or do you think they would’ve just chosen a similar gun or other means to carry out the attack?

Do you the availability of those weapons is what inspired or caused those shooters to attack people?

No, the Edmond post office shooting was before the ban took place. And if the weapons weren't available then yes they would use other means which are less lethal, which is the point. You can't have a Pulse Nightclub or Las Vegas style shooting and body count with a knife.

On the exact same day that the Newtown shooting happened, a crazed man went into an elementary school (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chenpeng_Village_Primary_School_stabbing) in China with an intent to kill as many kids as possible. However, he could only procure a knife. He injured 20+ kids but none died. Forcing sickos to use alternate, less effective means of mass murder saves lives.

The problem is mass shootings at a scale we don’t see in any other developed country. That solution is gun control. Saying we shouldn’t do this because it won’t solve all murders or because cars can somehow kill people is just asinine and not conducive to discussion.

This article is a list from 2018... There have been several more vehicular attacks in the last 4 years.... You honestly can't see a potential trend here?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2018/04/23/list-fatal-vehicle-attacks/544603002/

This article is a list from 2018... There have been several more vehicular attacks in the last 4 years.... You honestly can't see a potential trend here?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2018/04/23/list-fatal-vehicle-attacks/544603002/

Most of those are international, not here in the US, and tied to international terrorism. I would be fascinated to see how a possible school shooter would use a car instead of a gun to kill their classmates. Maybe they can fit their parents' GMC Tahoe into the school hallways or something. This whole argument, like your line of "reasoning" so far, is all a red herring.

It's the guns.

I can't seem to locate actual statistics, but it appears the age of most of the shooters is incredibly young -and all males. I would like to know from a trained psychoanalyst what's happening in these young males to tragically kill so many people. While the shootings at LGBT locations appears to be hate crimes -what about all the school shootings and the age of the shooters?

What's going inside the head/hearts of these young guys?

Encountering radical ideas without having proper masculine leadership in thier life.

This has to be sarcasm.

I hope the young men around you can find good masculine leadership in thier lives.

Encountering radical ideas without having proper masculine leadership in thier life.

I don't think British or Australian or French or Japanese dads are exuding masculine leadership more than American parents are. Do you have any data at all to back this nonsense up?

It's the guns.

No, the Edmond post office shooting was before the ban took place. And if the weapons weren't available then yes they would use other means which are less lethal, which is the point. You can't have a Pulse Nightclub or Las Vegas style shooting and body count with a knife.

On the exact same day that the Newtown shooting happened, a crazed man went into an elementary school (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chenpeng_Village_Primary_School_stabbing) in China with an intent to kill as many kids as possible. However, he could only procure a knife. He injured 20+ kids but none died. Forcing sickos to use alternate, less effective means of mass murder saves lives.

Ok. So Edmond took place before it took effect. What type of weapons did he use?

What type of weapons did the Virginia tech shooter kill 33 and injure 20 more with?

Hell for that matter, what did Timothy Mcveigh and Terry Nichols use to kill 168 people? Did they do it with assault riffles?

Again, what happened since the late 1980s that’s significantly increased mass shoutings and other murder events?

I’ve always wondered if a generation that grew up playing video games that are largely shooting people has had any impact on this.

No... That is a tired old trope.

Ok. So Edmond took place before it took effect. What type of weapons did he use?

What type of weapons did the Virginia tech shooter kill 33 and injure 20 more with?

Guns?

Off the top of my head, Columbine and the Edmond post office shootings both happened well before that was repealed or allowed to expire or whatever happened to it. Also I’m not sure the percentage but think well over half of the mass shootings since then have been carried out with weapons that wouldn’t have been covered by it.

In the cases where the shooters weapon of choice would’ve been covered by the ban, do you think that wouldn’t have chosen to carry out the shootings if those weapons weren’t available? Or do you think they would’ve just chosen a similar gun or other means to carry out the attack?

Do you the availability of those weapons is what inspired or caused those shooters to attack people?The ban only stopped new sales. It did nothing about the gargantuan number of existing guns, high capacity magazines, etc. That aren't going away. At least now for many, many years if they stopped manufacturing today. The thought that gun control will really work in the US is, and I quote, "asinine and not conducive to discussion". We have to, as a society, come up with ways to stop people from feeling the need to go kill masses amounts of innocent people.

Most of those are international, not here in the US, and tied to international terrorism. I would be fascinated to see how a possible school shooter would use a car instead of a gun to kill their classmates. Maybe they can fit their parents' GMC Tahoe into the school hallways or something. This whole argument, like your line of "reasoning" so far, is all a red herring.

It's the guns.

Geeze man... You just said compared to other 1st World Countries above and then you say most of those are terrorist attacks in 1st World countries.... And about half of that list is US.

How would they do it... Why don't you ask the parents of the 11 Moore track team members that were killed a few years ago? That was a drunk driver but someone that wanted to be malicious could do the very same thing.

As I said above... I'm not opposed to banning guns... It won't solve the problem.

Geeze man... You just said compared to other 1st World Countries above and then you say most of those are terrorist attacks in 1st World countries.... And about half of that list is US.

How would they do it... Why don't you ask the parents of the 11 Moore track team members that were killed a few years ago? That was a drunk driver but someone that wanted to be malicious could do the very same thing.

As I said above... I'm not opposed to banning guns... It won't solve the problem.

What do you think the problem is?

Guns?

So it’s not just “assault rifles” you have an issue with…at least thats a much more logically sound argument as I don’t think a long rifle of any kind offered much of a tactical advantage over handguns outside of Vegas and Dallas due to the close range environment.

So that being established. Do you think banning and taking all guns away from everyone is:

A) Possible in practice in the US?
B) Possible politically in the US?

Not really. Most other developed democracies have the same mental health issues we do, a similar social environment, play the same video games, listen to the same kind of music, have similar rates of divorce/broken families, etc. We are the only developed democracy on earth with the massively high level of mass shootings that we experience.

It's the guns.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/25/world/europe/gun-laws-australia-britain.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/07/world/americas/mass-shootings-us-international.html

The guns make it so the weak are on an even playing field with the strong. This is all that a gun does. It is effective and there is nothing anyone can say against these facts.

Other losers in developed countries are just less effective at using lethal force. If phaser beams were more effective at killing people then disgruntled young men would 3D print phaser beams and murder each other.

What do you think the problem is?

I honestly wish I had that answer.... I could blame it on a lot of things but the one absolute fact I know is that humans have always killed each other. You can take away one method but they will find others. Maybe less lethal. Maybe more lethal... But I have absolutely no doubt that when someone puts their mind to murder they will attempt it.

But to me just saying "It's the guns." is too simplistic.... As I said above... guns are easier and more effective at the moment but guns are not the reason behind mass murders.

Edit: Jim Jones did it with Kool-Aid.

I honestly wish I had that answer.... I could blame it on a lot of things but the one absolute fact I know is that humans have always killed each other. You can take away one method but they will find others. Maybe less lethal. Maybe more lethal... But I have absolutely no doubt that when someone puts their mind to murder they will attempt it.

But to me just saying "It's the guns." is too simplistic.... As I said above... guns are easier and more effective at the moment but guns are not the reason behind mass murders.

This is your problem then. This is a thread about mass shootings. You're spouting off about mass murder in general. You may want to find another thread to spout off in. Those are two different things. The solution to the former is gun control.